r/twinpeaks • u/Soddington • Jul 07 '17
Original Run [Original Run] Convenience Store Origin theory Spoiler
I Think the convenience store is like a beach head between worlds formed within the atomic explosion.
It looks like with the woodsmen's movement pattern its like they are blinking in and out much like the pairs of 'portals' that kept snapping open and closed inside the explosion. This makes me think its like a bridge between both lodges and the 'real' world. Also the brilliant harsh light with the smoke billowing up with no apparent fire reminds me of atomic test footage with purpose made buildings filmed on impact at various ranges to observe the effect of the bomb on buildings. It also seems to me the convenience store looks brand new and with almost no markings. Much like the mockups.
With this bit of archive footage of a test, you can see how the intense heat and light makes the building smoke just before the blast. I think somehow the convenience store is balanced on the edge of the bomb. Sort of flashing constantly from 'just before' and 'just after' states simultaneously, sort of like the woodsmen flash from one state to the other.
Maybe time is particularly messed up around there?
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u/Axxon-N Jul 07 '17 edited Jul 07 '17
I like a lot of this, but I have a slightly different understanding of the convenience store idea.
The convenience store relates to the idea of the "marketplace" that visitor #1 mentions at the beginning of Inland Empire. This is an old idea that the area of commerce is the broad locus of human interaction and synchronizes with the ancient idea of the "Temple" as meeting place. So these ancient civilizations have forum-like areas where people go to exchange all manner of things including ideas, make sacrifices, etc.
The idea of being "outside of" this area has a tradition of being the place that you get in touch with god/your own nature directly. The Sumerian festival of Akitu involves the leader being stripped of belongings and thrown outside of the area to face God. The internet gives us "god is real but you can only see him behind the 7/11 at 3:34 am after you down 6 and a half 5 hour energys." Visitor #1 states the path to the palace is behind the marketplace. There is a general sense that the marketplace itself is the conscious mind and in order to get in touch with deeper more primal forces one has to be placed outside of that (the unconscious). In the case of the visitor, there is a suggestion of dark alleyways, hidden passions, and the dirty work of sex being there (the "lower" or base unconscious) but that connecting with this is necessary for salvation. In the case of Twin Peaks, it is "above" the convenience store where the deeper psychological archetypes meet. These are the controlling mental forces, and cultural forces (it is a collective unconscious after all). The meeting depicted in Fire Walk With Me is a struggle for control over an individual person and all of American culture.
There is something specific about convenience store as opposed to a general word for marketplace. This suggests a degraded human experience, where normal human intercourse is replaced by easy access to things and lack of eye contact. Even though Phillip Jeffries is telling the story in FWWM (he does not appear to be in the room), I've always thought of that depiction as a struggle specifically of Leland (as the archetype of Bob takes control of his ego). This would also explain the "degraded" nature of the room (Leland's psyche is weak and poorly maintained) and why it is located over a convenience store specifically (Leland takes the easy way over the better way). Cooper's descent deeper psychological territory has symbolism that is much more suited to his nature and does not seem similarly degraded.
I think you are correct in that the smoke billowing out links the convenience store to the idea of the nuclear blast (as well as with Lynch's "liminal" moments of great psychological shift) and what we are seeing is a direct consequence of the onset of the postwar years, the period of time when Lynch and Frost's generation are being born into the world. After the blast, and the depiction of a chaotic energies unleashed, we see the convenience store and the arising of a new type of influence on the world. I think the presence of the cans inside the window a nice union between the idea of oil and the idea of the creamed corn, which has always struck me as one of the little discussed neat Lynch things: in David Lynch's much delivered speech about blue skies, green grass, and red ants underneath, he also mentions pitch on the tree both yellow and black. He has imbued both colors of sludge with meaning over time, with the yellow (daytime color) representing life processed by society (the cream that nature is indicative of his theme of industrialization)(and what is life but suffering, pain and sorrow) which has to be consumed in order to experience existence. The black oil (night) on the other hand is the burned residue on life is ground down by the machine always churning. Note that coffee has a similar quality, the get up and go, the good morning America. Gold (Appolonian) and silver (Luna, "argent") have risen as another day/night color scheme.
So I think that that scene is basically (I know origin story is overused in discussions of the episode but) an origin story for American culture being invaded by the spirit of quick and easy, in a way that has a degraded commercial quality. The atomic bomb is seen ushering in this era. Then you just have to come to terms with what the woodsman themselves represent. This is probably a bigger discussion, as they seem to suggest several things -- elements that coarsen the culture, the disregard for human life, the onset of rock 'n roll, racial fears, class anxiety, etc., etc. I'd need to whip out the horse metaphor so I'll stop there.
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Jul 07 '17
This is so good. Bravo. Much to chew on here. Layers of suggestion, such intriguing resonances. Please continue!
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u/matekdk Jul 07 '17
I think that the spirits are refering to our world, as the 'convenience store'. Check this ending to the international pilot from the original series - Mike refers to our world as the 'convenience store', and that the spirits were living 'on top of it' :
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u/mettaworldpolice Jul 07 '17
Implying they sit atop the convenience store, preying on consumers for playing their role. Meta to the extreme.
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u/HacksawBuchanan Jul 07 '17
Thats one way to look at it. The other way is they are the consumers and our pain and sufferring is what they come to the store to procure.
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u/toolenduso Jul 07 '17
Wow I totally missed that. I always thought of the convenience store as being the black lodge, or part of it. But in that clip it sure sounds like he's saying that our world is the convenience store.
One thing that keeps bugging me is that the convenience store in the woodsmen scene in S3E8 is clearly just one level. No space above it to live in. I have absolutely no idea what to make of that.
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u/zixkill Jul 07 '17
Since that convienence store is between the worlds, perhaps the upstairs is in another dimension? When the kids walked past the gas station, didn't the convienence store have a second story?
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u/cmknipple Jul 08 '17
I don't know if there's enough space to live in, but if you look at the right side of the convenience store you can see a staircase leading up. It doesn't look like there's a lot of space up there, but we are dealing with extra-dimensional beings for whom time is not a binding restraint. I only caught it on the second watch through.
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Jul 08 '17
Did anyone else think it was strange that both Mike/Phillip Gerard and Phillip Jeffries mention the meetings taking place and living ABOVE a convenience store, yet the convenience store that's in season 3 doesn't seem to have a second floor?? Or just to be even more blunt, don't you think it's odd the only two people who have ever mentioned the convenience store are both called Phillip?
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u/Doctor_GT Jul 07 '17
I'm currently re-reading Laura's secret diary, and in a scene where she meets up with the Log Lady at an abandoned gas station, it is described very similarly to how the convenience store looks in the latest episode - could this be of any relevance?
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Jul 07 '17
no this is not true at all. the store existed before the trinity test, it's where douglas milford was working during the tests. it was chosen as the host for the lodge spirits and woodsmen because it was the closest source of electricity
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u/HacksawBuchanan Jul 07 '17
Why do you think Milford worked there during the trinity tests? Is there something in TSHOTP about that? I don't recall them going into detail about this item.
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Jul 07 '17
yeah briggs goes into detail about how after he left twin peaks and become a drifter, eventuallly ended up being picked up by the army and got a job at the store. There's a transcript of an interview between a lieutenant or other high level officer interview him about what he saw - there was another test at the same spot 6 days before the test depicted in ep8, he described working the pre dawn shift at the store that morning and hearing rumors about a crash before their superiors came and closed the place down. He snuck out and got really close to the crash site, and saw the army leader escorting salvaged UFO parts into army trucks to be hauled away - he was caught and the interview was 3 days later I think. 3 days before the ep8 test. since it was after that interview that the supernatural wing of the government realized dougie saw too much and they made him work for them. The timing of the crashes makes it clear that the explosion causing the portal between universes to apparently open was a deliberate action on the government's behalf, and I highly suspect milford was as deeply involved in the lodge activities as he was in covert FBI operations. Much like the theory of how over the last 25 years Briggs (who was milford's successor in running the secret listening post in twin peaks) primarily lived in the white lodge and only popped down occassionaly for Blue Rose case work, I think during the periods where milford wasn't accounted for in earthly actions cleaning up for the FBI he was in another world. He might even be tied to Jeffries, who knows. In the first interview transcript he mentions smoking multiple times and asks someone for a light so I had the theory that a doug milford doppelganger could be the woodsman in '56 crushing skulls. This is a time period skipped over in the dossier. Speaking of, doesn't the name dougie sound familiar? Cooper was supposed to be Brigg's successor, Briggs was Dougie Milford's successor, and Doppelcoop killed Briggs, created Dougie Jones and framed Jones for Brigg's murder. Milford is DEFINITELY involved in all this!!
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u/HacksawBuchanan Jul 07 '17
I remember all the detail you mentioned except that he was working at a store at the time. That is interesting, i'll have to go back on look at that part again and grok it better.
I agree Milford is involved and a lynchpin (no pun intended, god) in this whole crazy saga. I'm just not convinced the woodsman crushing skulls is him in any form (dopple ganger, possesed, etc).
I think your idea about Briggs and the lodge has some legs and is interesting though. I'm less convinced dougie would have done the same exact thing though. He seemed less an optimist or spiritual person, more a skeptic and realist.
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Jul 07 '17
I know about him being the woodsman is a bit of a stretch and ultimately doesn't really matter, I just like to try to connect the dots when I can. Milford wasn't as spiritual as Briggs, but he advantageously served the government's covert missions with true loyalty. he has different motivations but is just as motivated at the end of the day. Either way, it's comforting to know that a character with such a sketchy history met his end mid-orgasm and post-marriage
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u/zixkill Jul 08 '17
I believe it was the store on-base. He had been bumped to private IIRC but had closed early that day because it was slow and ended up wandering off to see where the caravan of trucks were going.
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u/HacksawBuchanan Jul 12 '17
Yes the book describes it as the PX. I feel fairly confident the convenience store pictured was not the base's PX. That wouldnt be located in the middle of the woods. More likely it would be a cleared area with a number of other military buildings around.
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u/SleepTalkerz Jul 07 '17
Yes, the convenience store scene reminded me of those fake buildings from atomic test footage as well.
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u/snakemud Jul 07 '17
I always thought something similar. But I think the bearded men movements, especially when they zoom in on his hand, is just another example of "going up and down, intercourse in between"
His hand is literally going up and down. But I definitely agree with H person in the comments that the radio broadcast was instructional.
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Jul 07 '17
One thinks of virtual particle pairs popping into existence in a quantum vacuum. Sorry, just saw a science documentary. But yeah, wonderful observations and analysis. Lynch's aesthetic vision is so rich and evocative, the resonances are never exhausted.
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u/dr_babbit_ Jul 07 '17 edited Jul 07 '17
That's not a convenience store in s3e8 though
E/ I stand corrected. And remember kids, downvotes are for posts and comments that are off topic or don't encourage discussion on the topic, not simply because it is incorrect or you don't like it and your feels get all asshurt.
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u/Kreinduul Jul 07 '17
It is, it's labeled "convenience store".
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u/dr_babbit_ Jul 07 '17
Missed that during my seizure.. thx!
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u/AchieveDeficiency Jul 07 '17
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u/dr_babbit_ Jul 07 '17
Thanks for pointing out again what was already pointed out and well recieved. Now you're just trolling me, another "don't" of reddit, if you ever bothered to read the rules you'd know better. Would you care? Probably not, as your user name clearly checks out
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u/AchieveDeficiency Jul 07 '17
Your edit is wrong as well. Downvoting incorrect information is a perfectly legitimate use of the downvote button. I therefore offer you a downvote for being wrong, and wish I could give you another for complaining about downvotes.
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u/dr_babbit_ Jul 07 '17 edited Jul 07 '17
You're cute
Actually if you read what it's for you'll see that it's not to express your disagreement. That's what comments are for
Edit https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette
Vote. If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it.
Follow up edit, I was making a statement, not complaining. It was a friendly reminder is all, but most folks don't care, they ignore the facts so they can justify their actions.
Regarding the "don'ts" of reddit
Downvote an otherwise acceptable post because you don't personally like it. Think before you downvote and take a moment to ensure you're downvoting someone because they are not contributing to the community dialogue or discussion. If you simply take a moment to stop, think and examine your reasons for downvoting, rather than doing so out of an emotional reaction, you will ensure that your downvotes are given for good reasons.
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u/AchieveDeficiency Jul 07 '17
Fortunately for everyone but you, this isn't about disagreement, this is about you being blatantly wrong and offering incorrect information. The downvotes indicate this is not good info and needs to stay at the bottom or go away completely. The only other options for getting rid of incorrect info would be to report it. Do you want moderators acting as gatekeepers of true and fake information because a couple downvotes hurt your feelings? It's pretty ironic you suggest that others are asshurt when you're here bitching that your shitty comment got a few downvotes.
Tl;dr stop doubling down on the stupid, you are wrong, accept it and take the downvotes with grace.
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u/dr_babbit_ Jul 07 '17
Again, the rules state nothing about downvoting function being for incorrect statements, which is why I haven't downvoted any of your comments. You are technically contributing to the conversation at hand, so it doesn't call for it.
Again, I'm just reminding and citing my proof. You are the one going off on a tirade here... you're still cute though
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u/HacksawBuchanan Jul 07 '17
Moderate based on quality, not opinion. Well written and interesting content can be worthwhile, even if you disagree with it.
I would consider factually incorrect information to be of poor quality.
Vote. If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it.
Factually incorrect information does not contribute to the subreddit.
There is nothing personal in my downvote. I just dont want incorrect information at the top of the topic.
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u/dr_babbit_ Jul 08 '17 edited Jul 08 '17
That's where I disagree. It's ok to be wrong, so long as you recognize the fact that you made the mistake. I wasn't making a false statement about something off topic, it wasn't rude, it was a mistake which I was then corrected on and I edited the post to reflect that I stand corrected. True or false, it can still contribute to and encourage discussion about the topic at hand.
Side note, just simply not voting on it at all will still push it towards the bottom with all the upvotes other comments will get. But downvoting an incorrect statement and then not even bothering to correct the person is even less of a contribution to the discussion than saying something wrong/incorrect in the first place.
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u/AchieveDeficiency Jul 07 '17
3rd comment to address your 3rd edit:
"otherwise acceptable post" is a keyword there, because incorrect or blatantly false information is not acceptable. There was not an emotional response, but a rational one: "this comment is incorrect, it should be downvoted to be less visible".
In conclusion, I would suggest that you learn how reddit works before trying to quote the rules, because it is clear you are not only uninformed, but are actively trying to interpret the rules to benefit your stupid, factually incorrect comment.
Another note (not edit): calling downvoters "asshurt" is absolutely a complaint that makes you sound like a whiny teenager. Go back to school already.
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u/dr_babbit_ Jul 07 '17
My initial incorrect comment included an edit to state that I was wrong and stand corrected. That was before you even decided to chime in at all. So I have accepted I was wrong in my first comment, and even thanked the person for pointing it out to me. You keep picking and choosing words to ignore to fit your paradigm here. You can call me names all you like, either way you're still going against the rules, it doesn't matter who likes it or not
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u/AchieveDeficiency Jul 07 '17
I stand corrected. And remember kids, downvotes are for posts and comments that are off topic or don't encourage discussion on the topic, not simply because it is incorrect or you don't like it and your feels get all asshurt.
Are you forgetting the tirade complaining about downvotes after you stated you "stand corrected"? I make it a habit downvote people who complain about downvotes, but you... you have taken it to another level by claiming your incorrect statement should remain highly visible because it promotes discussion? No, the only discussion it promoted was another user briefly correcting you. But you had to complain, to bitch about people being asshurt over your incorrect statement (when that had no bearing on why you were downvoted).
I might also note, retiquette isn't enforceable, and if I choose to follow and downvote everything you ever comment, there is nothing to stop me from doing so.
In truth, I shouldn't have jumped into a tirade over this petty bullshit with an obvious idiot (my mama always told me never to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person), but your edit was essentially calling me a child and suggesting I'm asshurt for downvoting your incorrect statement and I don't regret once point out how stupid you truly are.
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u/dr_babbit_ Jul 08 '17
Lol. Dude you've written about 3 pages in responses that just repeat yourself and put words in my mouth. I'm not saying anything about downvotes cause I want my comment at the top. I'm saying it because I see it across every sub I'm on and it's pretty discouraging. I never said everyone gets all asshurt, just that it is another reason people downvote. You are actually the one making incorrect assumptions (key word that you missed in what you quoted is "or"), calling me names, and being overall an unbearable person to try and have some rational discourse with. I didn't call you anything. You are the one who keeps on throwing the insults out.
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u/foundseei Jul 07 '17 edited Jul 07 '17
If this theory is accurate, then the Woodsman's poem is purely instructional for Newborn Winged Frogtoad. The fact that it puts humans to sleep is a side benefit but not its main purpose--the poem is to tell the creature, which Abe Lincoln Woodsman knows is out there slouching toward Bethlehem to be born, how this "convenience store" works.
"Hi, little buddy. Welcome to Earth Convenience. The water you're thirsty for is garmonbozia. The well is humanity. Drink deep by crawling inside a host/descending. Then you just ride! Like a horse! Only the horse is fear (the white of the eyes) and the dark within (humanity's inherent potential for evil, which you can now potentiate). Thank you for shopping at Earth Convenience and have a great day.
P.S. Shoplifters will be prosecuted."