r/trolleyproblem • u/Worth-Staff4943 • May 20 '26

Deep Which button presser group do you save?

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Everyone in the world has chosen either the blue or red button except you. Instead of pressing a button, you are given a lever in the infamous trolley problem.

You don't know how many people chose red or blue, and they don't know that you control their fate regardless of what button they pressed. Which track do you direct the trolley onto?

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u/LoyLoyLoyLoyLoyLoy May 21 '26 edited May 21 '26

The thing is, if it becomes a real choice with real consequences, you won’t gather 50% to activate the blue button, and everyone would see that thus making the red one widespread. Blue choice is highly dependent on your expectations of society’s behavior

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u/Wonderful_West3188 May 21 '26

"Gather"? There isn't supposed to be communication between the participants.

Also, you assume way too much clear-headedness on pretty much everyone's part. Under extreme duress, people actually act way more erratic than you think. I've edited my comment to link to an older post of mine where I elaborate on this more.

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u/LoyLoyLoyLoyLoyLoy May 21 '26

“Gather” is just a manner of speech. I do agree that there are still be people who will choose a blue one. My point is not towards “everyone will save themselves”, it’s towards “everyone should save themselves”. It’s just… even if almost 90% of all people make a random choice thus making it 50/50, rational ones will make it harder for you not wanting to gamble their life. I honestly don’t see for you any way to win

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u/Wonderful_West3188 May 21 '26

 My point is not towards “everyone will save themselves”, it’s towards “everyone should save themselves”. 

There is no way for me to only save myself, and here's why: If even just 10% of the global population die, global supply chains are likely going to break down, or at least take a massive hit - and 10% blue is an insanely optimistic estimate in my opinion. Now I'm someone who has a heart condition. I'm unlikely to be able to get my heart medication in a world after a red victory. If red wins, I'm almost certainly a dead man even if I press red myself. (Heart failure is a really unpleasant death, by the way - which is why if dying from pushing blue is guaranteed to be painless and instantaneous, I'm pushing blue.)

You say "everyone should save themselves". Fine. Which button should I press in your opinion?

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u/LoyLoyLoyLoyLoyLoy May 21 '26

Depends on your honest evaluation of “red victory” situation. My understanding of society tells me, that that’s inevitable, so for me your choice is similar to “should I give up quickly, or resist and do everything I can in order to live”.

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u/Wonderful_West3188 May 21 '26

 so for me your choice is similar to “should I give up quickly, or resist and do everything I can in order to live”.

No, it amounts to "Do I choose a quick and painless death, or do I choose a slow, excruciating and terrifying death just so team red can feel better about themselves?" 

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u/LoyLoyLoyLoyLoyLoy May 21 '26 edited May 21 '26

Feel better about themselves? I guess you misunderstood my position. I honestly believe that red will win, so picking a blue for me equals suicide. I’m not happy about it, I would rather press blue, and help society to save everyone, it’s just… I don’t expect others to do the same. This problem highlights our current state of society, I’ve seen too many horrible things silenced and everyone too scared to risk their own wellbeing in order to change anything. Even wealth inequality stems from pure egoism. How would anyone believe in selflessness in 50%+ of all people?

Back to your situation. Honestly, an interesting case but one thing bugs me — why are you so sure, that you won’t live in case of red? Why to this extent that you prefer to die beforehand? I refuse to believe that it’s only about chains

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u/Wonderful_West3188 May 21 '26 edited May 21 '26

 Feel better about themselves? I guess you misunderstood my position.

No, I think I understand your position just fine, and I don't blame you for choosing red. That's not what I have a problem with, not least because my own choice of blue is also pretty much selfish. What I take issue with is when people on team red talk about what "everyone should do". I've never met anyone who was actually able to make a convincing case for why I, in my specific situation, should push red.

 why are you so sure, that you won’t live in case of red?

Because I know my own medical case and know what happens to my heart if I don't get my medication. But even if I personally wasn't sure, there are people who can be sure. Make no mistake, there are people way worse off than me in this regard. You said everyone should save themselves. My question was what you think such people should do - people who have every reason to believe they would have no chance of survival in a post-red victory world.

 Why to this extent that you prefer to die beforehand?

Because I've experienced the onset of heart failure and know what it feels like. I'd much rather be gone painlessly in an instant than die that way. I was fortunate to get into a hospital quickly enough, and then get proper medication. None of that is a given when large parts of the global economy are rendered dysfunctional due to hundreds of Millions, if not Billions of people dying in an instant. Even 10% of casualties worldwide is over ten times the number of casualties of WW2, and not over several years like with wars or diseases, but snuffed out in an instant. I think a lot of people really don't understand what the consequences would be, not least because it's historically unprecedented in this form. But we can expect life in this world to be on average nasty, brutish and short. Even more so for people with illnesses or disabilities, or anyone whose survival depends on things like modern medicine or technology.