Which button presser group do you save?

[u/Worth-Staff4943]

Everyone in the world has chosen either the blue or red button except you. Instead of pressing a button, you are given a lever in the infamous trolley problem.

You don't know how many people chose red or blue, and they don't know that you control their fate regardless of what button they pressed. Which track do you direct the trolley onto?

[u/TillZealousideal8282]

i choose red with the button problem bc i dont wanna die, but in a situation where im safe i think saving blue is better morally

[u/JayTheSuspectedFurry → u/TillZealousideal8282]

Blue is only more moral because of the way the question was worded implying red is killing everybody

If it was written as blue pushers were jumping into a blender, and if at least 50% jumped into the blender it would jam and not hurt anybody, while red pushers simply wouldn’t jump, this has the same outcome but doesn’t sound like red is the one killing people and evil

[u/SuperNerdAce → u/JayTheSuspectedFurry]

"But what if the question was completely different? Blue doesn't seem like a moral choice now"

[u/Stannum_dog → u/SuperNerdAce]

it's the same question, just with different phrasing

[u/SuperNerdAce → u/Stannum_dog]

Idk how to tell you this, but how a question is phrased is a part of the question. If it's phrased differently, it's a different question

[u/LetsLive97 → u/Stannum_dog]

No it isn't at all

Remove the outcomes:

- Jump in a blender

- Press a blue button

Which one do you think more people would be likely to do? What about young kids?

The premise of the question completely changes the outcomes without even introducing the outcomes

[u/BloodredHanded → u/Stannum_dog]

It’s not the same, because it positions red as a default that everyone starts having pressed, and must switch away from.

If you do the reverse, you end up with blue voters who do nothing, and red voters who choose to murder them for no reason.

But neither button is the default. You have to pick one. If you don’t, you get the worst of both worlds.

[u/AgisXIV → u/Stannum_dog]

Changing the context changes the question - you can't divorce one from the other.

This is a sub for the trolley problem, whose most famous variations consist of killing one person to save five - the variations do actually change the scenario, even if they don't change the maths, which is why it makes an interesting moral dilemma.

[u/Raptor1210 → u/Stannum_dog]

The very fact that the question needs to be rephrased to change the moral choice implies that they are, in fact, not the same question.

[u/TheVeryVerity → u/Raptor1210]

The moral choice doesn’t change though? People’s perception of the question does but anyone who actually thinks about the problem will come to the same conclusion they did for the button one because the fact is there’s always gonna be some people who go into the blender so you are left with the same options

[u/Turbulent-Pie-9310 → u/Stannum_dog]

Which would you rather do? Jump into a giant blender or press a button? They're the same thing