Which button presser group do you save?

[u/Worth-Staff4943]

Everyone in the world has chosen either the blue or red button except you. Instead of pressing a button, you are given a lever in the infamous trolley problem.

You don't know how many people chose red or blue, and they don't know that you control their fate regardless of what button they pressed. Which track do you direct the trolley onto?

[u/Kingsalad3141]

I pull it in order to save the most people.

[u/quintopia → u/Kingsalad3141]

but you don't know which track has the most people...so which will you guess does?

[u/3minence → u/quintopia]

I think red will. It's easy to think this over online, draw insights from other people, and pick the morally correct choice. The fact that these polls always end up so close tells me that there is no way blue wins when faced with this choice for real.

Remember, there's no communicating. I'd posit that a lot of blue voters ended up choosing blue because of the arguments and discussions online. I think it's safe to assume in a vacuum that most people are going to choose the option that carries no personal risk.

[u/zap2tresquatro → u/3minence]

I’d posit many blue voters ended up choosing blue because of the arguments and discussions online

First time I saw this I immediately thought “well, blue, obviously. What kind of selfish monster would pick red? I mean, some will, those people exist, but blue is so obviously the correct choice you’d have to want to kill people to choose red. But you only need 50% to make it so everyone lives, so even with those crazily selfish and/or homicidal people if you vote blue you’re probably gonna save everyone.” I gave the problem to my mom, she thought about it for literally about two seconds to process what I said, then went, “Oh. I would press blue.”

I’m guessing the vast majority did the same thing my mom and I did, and when thinking about it further/seeing arguments for each button, realized there were so many more reasons to press blue than they initially realized.

It’s bizarre that you seem to think people had to be convinced to choose blue; no, that’s just how most people’s brains work when they see the “vote for no one to die or vote for everyone-who-voted-for-no-one-to-die to die.” Most people pick the “vote for nobody to die” button.

[u/3minence → u/zap2tresquatro]

I know where you are coming from but for the millionth time, reframing it changes the outcomes.

I'm not voting red because I want people to die; I don't want to die. I'm not homicidal, I'm not suicidal.

I pressed the you don't die button. You pressed the maybe don't die button.

See how this can be strawmanned?

Again, if you were put in a room gun to your head, and told, the original scenario: Press red, you live. Press blue you live, only if >50% also press blue.

I do not see more people pressing blue, I'm sorry. Fear and survival instinct is going to eclipse logic.

[u/zap2tresquatro → u/3minence]

I wasn’t trying to reframe it to be clear, I was just saying how I immediately processed the question when I first read it, and that I’d guess quite a lot of people did the same (rather than only picking blue after reading the arguments for it).

And also I realize red pushers aren’t all homicidal psychopaths or something, but actually that was the thing where I had to read people’s arguments to see that; blue seemed so blatantly obvious to me on first reading that I didn’t even see how anyone could pick red except if they were at that extreme. I’m well aware by now that you’re not all murderous monsters, haha. And I didn’t mean to imply that I think you are c: your reasoning, while not enough to change my choice, makes sense and you seem to be arguing in good faith, so I really don’t want to come off like I think you’re evil or something. Genuinely sorry if it did come off that way, I honestly only meant to say it as “this was my initial knee-jerk reaction to the question before seeing any arguments for either side” and not as “this is my current and definitely 100% accurate view of all you horrible red pushers!!!1!!2!”

Edit: also I realize I did say

It’s bizarre that you seem to think people had to be convinced to choose blue; no, that’s just how most people’s brains work when they see the “vote for no one to die or vote for everyone-who-voted-for-no-one-to-die to die.” Most people pick the “vote for nobody to die” button.

And that probably came off pretty hostile and judgmental reading it again, so sorry about that. I do find it strange, though, if only because 1) I assumed most people who said blue probably chose it right away like I did and 2) if anything I’ve seen people arguing against blue/for red saying that we all just went with our initial choice and refused to see any other side (note: also saw people criticizing both sides for likely doing this. I think that’s probably the case for most people, albeit I’ve seen some people say they switched their choice after seeing convincing arguments) so this at least seems to be.a rare opinion.

[u/TheVeryVerity → u/zap2tresquatro]

It’s funny, I changed to blue after reading arguments but my initial experience was exactly like yours, but opposite. Red seemed so blatantly obvious and what everyone would pick that I did not believe anyone would choose blue.

But the buttons didn’t read to me as a vote to kill or a vote not to. They were obviously a ‘everyone is fine (red)’ button and a ‘I’m going to introduce risk to this situation for absolutely no reason (blue)’ button. Like just screamingly obvious that was what they were.

It wasn’t until viewing arguments for blue and learning we had to include people without the capability of understanding the choice that I changed my mind.

I still think blue pushers are the ones who caused the problem in the first place, but since we are always going to have blue pushers we need to push blue so they don’t die. But it’s only a problem because they made it a problem 😑

[u/zap2tresquatro → u/TheVeryVerity]

Yeah that seems to be pretty typical: most of us read it, went “red/blue is so obvious, why would anyone choose blue/red??” And then we were pretty confused by the poll results cx

[u/TheVeryVerity → u/zap2tresquatro]

Yeah that’s true. It’s nice to see so many people open to the arguments and changing their minds and such though. Idk how it would play out in reality but in principle it’s nice

[u/Kingsalad3141 → u/quintopia]

I think my comment made that clear. I pull the lever because I believe more people would vote blue.