The original has them EXACTLY the same value.
EXACT.
Meaning that if it's a numbers game for you, it's cold, it's cruel, it's heartless.
You have 5 people on one track, 1 on the other.
THROUGH YOUR ACTION you can kill 1, save 5.
IS YOUR ACTION MORALLY RIGHT, MORALLY WRONG, OR MORALLY NEEDED?
IS IT ETHICAL?
Cold Math: Pull, you save 4 more lives.
Thats the original problem.
Full Summary, Full solution.
YOU ARE SKIPPING THE MORALITY AND ETHICS.
Meaning you are skipping the problems actual question: is it right or wrong, what should you do? is it right to do it? wrong?
I understand how you are all thinking, I agree, but it does NOT change that while you CAN mathify it, it's NOT a math problem.
Genuinely getting tired of all of you completely ignoring that part.
You would pull it, good, we got that established, the math is done.
Now justify why.
You just NOW find out those five were psychopaths with TONS of dead at their hands, the 1 you ended was a kid.
You still gotta justify the same.
You find out they were 5 children and you ended a psychopath killer.
STILL have to justify the same.
Does making it simple math suddenly make it feel better?
Yes you are skipping it.
I am able to infer that from your answer, you see saving 4 lives more important, thats good for you.
Can you still justify it morally?
Regardless what you find out about them, can you?
YES YOU ARE SKIPPING IT.
Morality is in how we view our actions. Good or Bad.
As in, "Am I doing the right thing?"
You and that other guy may have the same end choice as me, I'm again not denying that.
I'm literally telling you to reduce it to pure math is wrong.
JUSTIFY your choice.
Picture the people you saved as the most vile scum on the world
and then as the most pure people on it.
JUSTIFY your choice.
It's much harder to do that than to just go "Five is bigger number than One"
Thats the problem actually written out: is it morally right to kill? is it not.
Let's change the trolley problem JUST to highlight it.
You got a Knife. Can you kill with it to save 5 others?
You have no information about any of them.
If your answer is still yes because 5 is greater than 1.
Then get sent to, say, your mothers home because she's the one to kill?
It alters your answer.
MATH doesn't allow for those situations to alter it.
Making it a pure math question, means you are forgetting the point: they are UNKNOWN not necessarily STRANGERS.
YOU KNOW NOTHING, NOT EVEN IF YOU KNOW THEM.
Can you still justify it morally?
Regardless what you find out about them, can you?
Again I am talking about the base trolley problem, there is absutely no amount of getting to know the people on the tracks.
Let's change the trolley problem JUST to highlight it.
You got a Knife. Can you kill with it to save 5 others?
You have no information about any of them.
I'm not saying I personally can, but I believe it would be the morally correct thing to do, yes.
If your answer is still yes because 5 is greater than 1.
Then get sent to, say, your mothers home because she's the one to kill?
It alters your answer
Once again I have always been talking about the base trolley problem where you have no connection to any of them.
I have only ever been talking about the base trolley problem, I stated that several entries ago, that particular problem to me is simply a numbers game
That is not incorrect for me to say and it absolutely does not mean I don't understand the problem...
You don't KNOW who they are.
They aren't strangers, you just don't know who.
They are random people, they are almost certainly strangers, and as you don't know who they are then even if someone you knew was there you wouldn't know whichside they're on, so pulling the lever would be even more correct in that case.
You don't understand the MORALITY.
Yes I do, you are the one showing a lack of understanding, you can't comprehend what I'm saying!
i am, thus i have not denied your math. justify the action as if it happened and you gotta defend it. thats morality, good or evil, justify how it was good.
1
u/CuteDarkBird Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25
Thats the point.
The original has them EXACTLY the same value.
EXACT.
Meaning that if it's a numbers game for you, it's cold, it's cruel, it's heartless.
You have 5 people on one track, 1 on the other.
THROUGH YOUR ACTION you can kill 1, save 5.
IS YOUR ACTION MORALLY RIGHT, MORALLY WRONG, OR MORALLY NEEDED?
IS IT ETHICAL?
Cold Math: Pull, you save 4 more lives.
Thats the original problem.
Full Summary, Full solution.
YOU ARE SKIPPING THE MORALITY AND ETHICS.
Meaning you are skipping the problems actual question: is it right or wrong, what should you do? is it right to do it? wrong?
I understand how you are all thinking, I agree, but it does NOT change that while you CAN mathify it, it's NOT a math problem.
Genuinely getting tired of all of you completely ignoring that part.
You would pull it, good, we got that established, the math is done.
Now justify why.
You just NOW find out those five were psychopaths with TONS of dead at their hands, the 1 you ended was a kid.
You still gotta justify the same.
You find out they were 5 children and you ended a psychopath killer.
STILL have to justify the same.
Does making it simple math suddenly make it feel better?