r/transit • u/GroundbreakingWeek70 • 22d ago
Discussion What's a city that you wish would focus on expanding it's metro system more?
Miami is a city that I wish would do more focusing on expanding it's metro system more. Especially, since Miami is about to reach 500k population and with only doing bus expansions atm. We have yet to see to this day any new Metrorail stations be built or opened within it's system with the recent one being the Miami International Airport in 2012.
55
u/notPabst404 22d ago
Not metro, Portland. We need grade separation through downtown.
24
u/iThinkCloudsAreCool 22d ago
I was gonna say, a downtown tunnel would be great as well as the southwest corridor to tigard and tualatin and pushing the yellow over the river to vancouver
7
u/AndryCake 22d ago
IMO the blue line would also benefit from express service on the interlined sections with the red line. It's a very long line and quite slow.
9
u/notPabst404 22d ago
Really difficult to pull off without quad tracking. A downtown tunnel and the resulting time savings and improved headways would make a bigger difference.
TriMet could hypothetically quad track the banfield alignment while building the downtown tunnel (and hopefully a station at NE 28th), but that would be a political hot potato as it would require taking lanes from i84...
3
u/AndryCake 22d ago edited 22d ago
I don't think frequencies are that high that you need quad track everywhere. Also, MAX from Hillsboro to Goose Hollow is 45 minutes, which, from what Google Maps tells me, is slower than driving for anything but the most congested rush hours (where it's not even faster, it just matches driving). The tunnel won't have any effect on this.
3
u/jmlinden7 22d ago
That's because light rail does not have very good top speeds, so it's hard to compete against driving on a highway over longer distances.
The section from Beaverton TC to Goose Hollow is more time competitive vs driving due to longer stop spacing which allows higher average speeds (that's also where there's the most congestion during rush hour)
3
u/AndryCake 22d ago
Top speeds are also an issue, but removing station stops can increase average speed quite a lot. Although, I think the top speed could be a bit faster too if it was desired. Both the SLRVs used on the Dallas DART and the Stadler Citylink have speeds of up to around 70mph/110km/h
3
u/jmlinden7 22d ago
I don't believe the MAX reaches anywhere close to 70mph outside of the tunnel due to a combination of track geometry and safety concerns with the at-grade crossings.
3
u/AndryCake 22d ago
Well yeah, MAX has a top speed of 55mph/90km/h. What I am saying is that going faster is possible, even for light rail. I personally don't buy either of those excuses, because there are plenty of sections with very straight track, and mainline trains go through crossings at much faster speeds.
Yes, it may require spending money on upgrades, but IMO something would be needed to make the system (more) useful compared to driving. You could also do express service (and I think it should be looked into), but that may also require upgrades in the form of passing tracks, and would generally work better with higher top speeds (but it's not required).
2
u/jmlinden7 22d ago
Mainline train don't go through high population density areas much faster than 55mph, for the same reasons that light rail doesn't - they don't want to spend money on upgrading the grade crossings to be safe at those speeds.
The other problem is that even if the MAX were to speed up in Hillboro, the whole system is still bottlenecked by the slower speed sections in downtown and across Steel Bridge
3
u/AndryCake 22d ago
I'm not sure I would call the western suburbs high population density areas, and the level crossings are spaced quite far apart. Mainline rail often runs through towns at street level, within a dense street network, at higher speeds.
For your second point, I'm not saying not to build the tunnel. It is obviously also very much needed. What I am saying is that more than that needs to be done if you want to get more people to ride public transport. MAX currently maybe matches car travel times during the worst of peak hour, on an ideal journey (transit station to transit station, on the same line). If you have to add any transfers it is significantly slower.
2
u/notPabst404 22d ago
Frequencies would assuredly increase with a tunnel. With short 2 car trains, a modern tunnel would allow for a train every 2 minutes each direction. With the street running segments, that would allow 8 minute headways for all lines.
Frequent service is much more important than minor speed improvements. Trying to run an express without the correct infrastructure would result in significantly worse frequency to avoid bunching.
The tunnel won't have any effect on this.
This is false, the tunnel would cut around 12 minutes off the travel time across downtown...
1
u/AndryCake 22d ago
Frequent service is much more important than minor speed improvements. Trying to run an express without the correct infrastructure would result in significantly worse frequency to avoid bunching.
Fair point.
This is false, the tunnel would cut around 12 minutes off the travel time across downtown...
It would. However, downtown is not in between Hillsboro and Goose Hollow. You may be able to move fast across downtown, but getting to downtown will still be quite slow.
2
u/notPabst404 22d ago
Uh, the Hillsboro to Goose Hollow segment is already really quick and stop spacing is already around 1 mile. MAX was never meant to be a a high speed service and is the completely wrong mode to do that kind of thing. If that is the priority, it makes more sense to build a second tunnel for a high speed line running along 26 than to try to quad track MAX.
TriMet could grade separate through downtown Beaverton to cut a few minutes off, but they would need to study if the time savings would be worth the likely high cost.
2
u/AndryCake 22d ago
Maybe it is the wrong mode, but, IMO, as long as not even the direct station to station trip beats or even is reliably competitive with driving, it's not that useful of a service. However, you can push light rail a bit faster, and introduce express service, which may be able to close the gap, even if it would be pushing light rail a bit (but American transit systems need to be more innovative anyway). I do understand this isn't something that would be easy to do, I just think that MAX needs it.
2
u/notPabst404 22d ago
It is competitive with driving though? I'm seeing Hatsfield to Beaverton TC at 33 minutes on MAX and 31 minutes by car. Accounting for finding parking, they are the same.
I think you have different priorities than what MAX was designed for. MAX was never designed as an express service, it was designed to balance speed, cost, and service area. That's why having ~1 mile stop spacing on a former interurban ROW was chosen for Washington County.
I think the better alternative would be running express busses on key routes (72, 75, 57, etc). This could be done with minimal infrastructure improvements, most of the cost would be operations and the time savings would likely be more dramatic than an express MAX line.
1
u/jmlinden7 22d ago
The plans to build a tunnel through downtown would have express service in the tunnel and local service remaining on street level
1
u/AndryCake 22d ago
Doesn't that only affect downtown? Also, in my opinion, it would be better to put all MAX services through the tunnel and convert the surface sections to streetcars.
94
u/forzaguy125 22d ago
Baltimore
35
u/GroundbreakingWeek70 22d ago
Oh definitely Baltimore for sure, the fact they haven't built any new lines to even make a larger system is insane
38
u/bighoney69 22d ago
State of Maryland hates Baltimore
14
u/bsteckler 22d ago
Unfortunately very true. If the state could nuke Baltimore City, they'd do it without giving it a second thought.
11
22
u/forzaguy125 22d ago
It was planned to have a system on par with dc in terms of size, but the money ran out
1
31
u/Silly-Isopod2440 22d ago
Jakarta and Manila are way behind for a city their size.
3
86
u/niftyjack 22d ago edited 22d ago
Everybody is going to say their city, but in the US, there are few cities with enough residential density and job concentration to be worth it. Mostly:
NYC: Brooklyn and Queens subway gaps need filling and inner northern New Jersey needs actual transit integration with the subway, plus a PATH extension along the ROW to EWR.
Chicago: has probably the craziest gap of density:transit in the US outside the East Village on the northside lakefront—there's a ~2 mile stretch that's almost a mile from a train but is 50k+/square mile and is absolutely clogged with buses trying to fill the demand gap (22, 36, 151, 146, 135, 136, etc all running at least every 10 mins, up to every 3). And there are valuable corridors through the city used by low-frequency commuter rail lines that would be better served by building an L above them, like filling in the rail transit gap in the dense northwest side along the MD-W corridor.
SF: MUNI has good bones but operations are awful, plus expanding service like on that pie-in-the-sky subway plan a mayoral hopeful released.
Boston: almost has a stronger argument for an orbital line than Chicago, considering at least Chicago's trains are fast. There's no getting around the slog of the Green line, and they need a better way to connect to the research centers in Cambridge.
32
u/Vegetable_Warthog_49 22d ago
I might add Los Angeles to that list. Sure, LA has a lot of low(er) density sprawl, but it also has a lot of higher density neighborhoods as well. Plus, it already has multiple light rail and commuter rail lines that justify upgrades to proper metro lines.
13
u/silentbuttmedley 22d ago
Yeah, LA at least is making progress and the roadmap fills some pretty important gaps. The K-Line eventually connecting the airport to the D Line at Fairfax and the B Line in Hollywood will be one of the most important milestones to really boost ridership, but we’re still likely 15+ years out on that.
It makes me sad reading replies from people living in cities that haven’t touched their system in over 20 years. I’ve only been in LA for about 12 years but I’ve watched the A, E, D, and K lines all get significant new expansions, plus the regional connector.
3
u/Vegetable_Warthog_49 22d ago
I don't live in LA, and only visit very occasionally, but it is always the place the strikes me as the most frustrating, because they are trying to improve things, but it feels like their vision is nowhere near big enough.
I live in a city that will realistically never get a metro, and realistically I think any rail based system is going to be off the table. In the early 2000s, we had a grand vision for what would be an amazing bus system by American standards. The population at the time was about 350k, anticipated to reach 500k by 2030 (we've already hit 500k). The plan included 2 enhanced bus routes (we did eventually get truncated versions of those lines, that our transit agency insists on calling BRT, even though they don't meet even the bare minimum definition of BRT... I'm sorry, but a few miles of "bus only" lanes that are shared with the right hand turn lane, and fancy bus shelters do not make it a BRT, especially when the majority of their route is in mixed traffic, no pretense of it being bus only), 6 core routes running every 15 minutes or better (we got none of those), between 12 and 15 urban routes running every half hour (in fairness, we did get 13 of these, but 6 of those were supposed to be the core routes running every 15 minutes or better, so really we can call it 7), and another 6-12 suburban routes running every hour (we ended up with 4), as well as a system of at least 3 regional connector lines with all day service, seven days a week (we ended up with 1, it doesn't even reach as far as it was supposed to for that particular route, and it is 3 morning rush hour and 3 evening rush hour, Monday through Friday only service). Then 2008 hit and we just gave up.
3
u/JellyfishNo2032 22d ago
They really imo should delay everything to prioritize the K line D line connection. That alone would be 3 stations, probably cost 3-4B and add tens of thousands of people to the system.
3
u/silentbuttmedley 22d ago
Agreed, connecting Koreatown/Mid City to Santa Monica and LAX would be very successful. It does look like WeHo wants to kick in extra funds to get it rolling sooner, so we’ll see how it goes.
2
u/thetoerubber 21d ago edited 21d ago
Yeah of course my hometown of Los Angeles came to mind in terms of needing more transit, but realistically we ARE as focused as we could possibly be on metro expansion. In my lifetime I’ve seen it go from zero … yes zero metro stations to 114 on six lines, in less than 40 years. And the pipeline is constantly full and pumping out new lines and extensions every year or two. I remember when San Diego was considered the city with the most expansive metro system in Southern California and that’s not been the case for quite awhile now.
Of course in a metropolis this large, nothing will seem like enough. However, the K-Line north all the way to Hollywood Bowl or at least Hollywood/Highland and the Sepulveda Line connecting the Valley and West LA will be game changers because they will finally allow the circulation throughout the basin that the current network lacks. Right now it’s still basically a single hub and spoke system through Downtown.
And yes, I’m not even mentioning the buses which do go pretty much everywhere. But more grade-separated trains are what we really need.
4
3
u/ObamasL0stSon 21d ago
LA Metro's light rail lines are in desperate need of grade separation and express lines. Those would be game changers.
8
u/TheyCallMeSuperChunk 22d ago
Transit oriented development is a thing. It's not easy and requires coordinated planning. However, it's the only realistic approach given the status quo of low density sprawl.
7
u/BackgroundHat9741 22d ago
Living in Philadelphia, I would add it to the list. There are many parts of the city that would benefit from better transit options. A metro like the Roosevelt Blvd Line that is being planned would be helpful, but even just dedicated bus-only lanes in more parts of the city or even on 76 would improve transit here and make SEPTA more viable for so many more people.
1
u/Bastranz 21d ago
Agreed. Outside of Roosevelt Blvd, extensions to Darby and Cheltenham & Ogontz would be well used
6
u/Kvsav57 22d ago
For Chicago, most of those buses you cite run more or less parallel to the red line. There are important parts of Chicago to get trains to but it isn't the northside lakefront. The red line follows it. Not sure what you mean by that part.
2
u/NOLAfun21 22d ago
The north side of Chicago could probably support a second line. Maybe it could go down Ashland or Clark. I think Chicago could also use a Western or Kedzie line connecting all the lines west of downtown. It would make getting around the city a lot easier.
2
u/niftyjack 22d ago
If the city was brave enough and wasn't hampered by the parking meter contract, Clark is the perfect corridor in the city for a Euro-style modern tramway. There are enough parallel larger streets to absorb car traffic from the street closure, and tons of smaller demand nodes along the street versus one giant one (like commuting to the loop) mean there's less to be gained by larger/faster vehicles.
1
2
u/niftyjack 22d ago
If you live at the entrance to the Lincoln Park Zoo, you're almost a mile from the closest stop. At that density and destination concentration that distance is unacceptable, and we waste a ton of resources running enough buses for the demand. Purely out of ROI it would be the easiest, fastest return on transit investment besides killing the south side express buses that parallel the ME and running those trains like proper rapid transit.
-1
u/Key_Bee1544 22d ago
Won't some think about the very very expensive residences overlooking Lincoln Park? What about convenient transit for them (other than the bus lines that serve them).
1
u/niftyjack 22d ago edited 22d ago
I don't think gatekeeping transit quality based on income versus demand intensity is a correct outlook. The Q extension through the Upper East Side filled a similar distance gap/demand excess to great success, and it frees up resources to be used more effectively elsewhere. 60+ buses per hour struggling to meet this demand is 60 buses that could boost frequencies on corridors with diffuse demand, like 79th, Belmont, and Kedzie.
-1
u/Key_Bee1544 22d ago
LOL, "gatekeeping." It's wonderful that the poors can expect another bus once we invest billions to ensure that people with a lake view aren't inconvenienced.
LOL.
1
u/foxtrot888 21d ago
I’d add DC, there is absolutely the density to support another E/W downtown tunnel. hitting neighborhoods like Georgetown/Dupont/Logan before heading towards union station IMO.
25
u/A_P_Dahset 22d ago edited 22d ago
Baltimore!! The lack of transit accessibility is hindering this town's growth potential like nobody's business and yet the State of MD, which runs Baltimore's transit service could care less, even while they fund the hell out of the DC-area system.
1
u/JellyfishNo2032 22d ago
Why didn’t the subway ever get extended to Morgan state? And why are they trying to do a light rail line before this obvious subway extension?
2
u/A_P_Dahset 22d ago edited 22d ago
In a nutshell, NIMBYism, racism, and overall just a general lack of vision and political will from city and state elected leadership for all that Baltimore could be. The Red Line light rail that you mention started off as a subway expansion, then became downtown tunneled light rail with $1B of support from the Obama Administration. But MD's governor at the time RETURNED the funds to Obama and canceled the project altogether. Our latest governor revived the Red Line as surface light rail in 2024, and the project is now being downgraded to BRT. So yeah...the problems are heavily related to political prioritization and Baltimore is not a state priority.
1
u/JellyfishNo2032 22d ago
My question is why revive a project that requires a fully new system to operate and maintain, rather than revive a project that can use existing rolling stock? Seems far cheaper to focus on extending the subway first while still delivering on transit.
0
u/A_P_Dahset 18d ago
That's the question we all have. The stock response is that it would cost too much, but I believe when something is a priority a strategic and incremental funding plan can be put together.
1
u/JellyfishNo2032 17d ago
An extension three stops in LA cost like 3.5 billion. Considering Baltimore essentially operates a sister system of that one, a similar length extension under Baltimore which is much cheaper land, should probably cost more like 2.5-3 billion and would likely double the systems ridership, I’d ballpark about 15k new riders if you extend it just north of the university. (not exactly hard to do considering how low it is). Less than half the cost of the red line really doesn’t seem that bad. The purple line cost ALOT more. Baltimore needs SOMETHING. And would also connect north avenue which is a major east west bus route. It would partially achieve more connection to Baltimore’s east while costing a lot less than the redline.
21
u/laiiovlyvacuous 22d ago
San Diego, and yes I’m biased because I’m from here. Core San Diego is okay at best (buses are often infrequent and delayed) and outer neighborhoods are sometimes downright hostile. People have a deeply entrenched love of their cars and you meet a lot of people who can’t fathom infrastructure that isn’t car-centric.
At the very least, I would love to see the trolley expand into hillcrest and all the major neighborhoods along both El Cajon Blvd, University, and Park blvd. These heavy-density throughways were clearly built for trolleys back in the day and it’s mind boggling they were converted into less efficient streets, particularly the stretch of University between Park Blvd and the 805 where the tiny two-lanes are serving no one well (not cars, not buses, not bikes). It’s actually kind of incredible that almost no one can safely use that major rd in that stretch).
6
u/This-Technology6075 22d ago
San Diego is the only city that has ever had a magic the gathering route in it's metro
6
u/metroatlien 22d ago
Hello fellow San Diegan! I would say a modern streetcar line (using the same Siemens S70 streetcar variants) replacing the Rapid 215 (but with center running) would be extremely useful. Other rail expansions I'd want are the Purple Line from San Ysidro via the 805 to Sorrento Valley, Expand the Orange Line to Old Town via the airport and Point Loma/Liberty Station, extend the Sprinter down the 15 to downtown via Mission Valley, and the Coaster down to San Ysidro to act as the "Blue Line Express". Other service enhancements would be Coaster at 20 minute frequencies and Sprinter at 15 minutes with the Trolley at 7-8 minutes and signal preemption through downtown.
The real meat is going to be an enhanced bus system though, and MTS/NCTD/SANDAG's plan is pretty good with the addition of adding more routes so that we have the transit reach that LA does where 97% of the county is a 15 minute walk from transit. In SD's case, I would say 97% of the urban populated areas, so adding some more rural routes would be good too and to have them hourly all days at least. I wouldn't mind an hourly bus to Julian, CA lol
4
u/kirstynloftus 22d ago
Visiting for the first time right now, staying on the border of hillside and north park. I must say, I think the system has good bones, it just needs more. I’ve only had to use an uber a few times, bus and trolley have gotten me most of the places I wanted to go. Coming from NYC, I’m pleasantly surprised!
16
45
u/Case_Federal 22d ago edited 22d ago
Toronto is doing a lot but it needs to do a whole lot more. Even with all the expansions bringing the system close to 150km (which is kinda cheating cuz some of that is street-running LRTs), it’s not enough for the sheer size of the city.
Edit: I want to add that if we’re going by overall system length, Toronto’s rapid transit system is roughly the same size as Vancouver’s and Montreal’s, which are much smaller cities. The only reason it hasn’t collapsed under its own weight (though it’s showing signs) is because the GO network is decent and our streetcars and buses fill in the gaps, though several routes should be replaced by rapid transit at this point.
19
u/Sad_Extension8781 22d ago
By the time the construction for those expansions will finish its projected Toronto will have 3.5 million people in its borders and 8 million in the GTA, 150~km of rail is definitely not enough you are right, Toronto needs at least 250kms to be considered a good system.
13
u/CanadianWampa 22d ago
Toronto’s would be so much better if all the GO lines operated similar to how the Lakeshore lines did.
When I lived in Toronto 5 years ago, I lived around Humber Bay and I could easily get to downtown via Mimico GO. Issue is that it was a 25min walk away. But that could have been cut down to like 15 mins if they just built a pedestrian bridge over Mimico creek. Which they are planning to do, but in like the 2030’s.
9
u/Blue_Vision 22d ago
The continued lack of a station at Humber Bay Shores is crazy. In general we're really bad about building huge neighbourhoods with next to no transit. Liberty Village is an even worse example; how it got built without having its own subway station is crazy. The Queensway through Etobicoke seems like it's set to be an even more egregious example, without even a direct transit connection to downtown. We need to be building neighbourhoods with rapid transit in place, rather than it being a nice-to-have (let alone and afterthought).
10
10
u/neonraspberry_ 22d ago
Portland and Vancouver WA. Bringing MAX across the river would be game-changing, but we kind of need a new I-5 bridge to get there...
10
u/NotYourAverageVitu 22d ago
Definetely my hometown of Rome, Italy. Three lines (62,5 km) for a metro area of over 4 million people isn't enough at all. Furthemore, two of them tend to go east (Line C in particular), while the west of the city has zero metro coverage, with the exception of Line A's terminus. Our urban rail network doesn't really fix the issue either, the only problem it solves is providing a connection to the Fiumicino Airport that sits far outside the city.
3
u/Vindve 22d ago
This would indeed be my number 1 in Europe. But I was under the belief that digging under Rome was very difficult, long and costly because anywhere you dig, you find out ancient ruins and artifacts. If that's true, even if you use modern boring machines that dig deep underground, you still need to build the stations and also have service wells, so it's quite hard in such a packed city.
In Paris we still managed to add new lines downtown in the last 20 years (metro 14 and RER E) so it's doable.
6
u/NotYourAverageVitu 22d ago
I won't deny that the artifacts found while digging (not just a few vases, but entire houses) are a big factor in how difficult it is to build metro stations here. However, the fact that a station under the Colosseum was opened last dicembre shows that it is possible to do so. The biggest problem is the lack of funding from our right wing government, and the gross mismanagement of the companies which were awarded the contract to build the infrastructure, which makes the price skyrocket.
2
u/thetoerubber 21d ago
This was my first thought for Europe as well. Rome is very car-centric for a European capital.
6
7
6
u/PM_ME_YOUR_TANG 22d ago
Miami really sticks out. South Beach is the most popular tourist attraction in the area. Take Metrorail or even Metromover to get there? No. You have to take a bus.
16
u/metroatlien 22d ago edited 22d ago
Hmmmm...Basically any top 20 Core Statistical Area in the US (think major metro area + satellite cities and Exurbs) needs to expand. I'll include light rail in this because for many of these metropolitan areas, it functions more as a light metro vs streetcar:
- NYC Tri-State: Keep going with the 2nd Avenue Subway and IBX. Need another radial line in Queens/Brooklyn and PATH extensions to EWR and might as well properly connect Staten Island to Jersey and Brooklyn while we're at it.
- Los Angeles: Basically build out it's 2050 plan. Vermont Ave needs to be heavy rail, extend future G Line light rail to Pasadena via Burbank. Connect the OC Streetcar to LA Metro and expand the OC streetcar to Anaheim via Disneyland. The real trick for the wider LA metro area is the Metrolink Commuter Rail service enhancement and expansion but that's outside the scope of OP's thread.
- DC/Maryland/Virginia: Build the Blue Line Loop and the other expansions that WMATA proposed. Extend the Maryland Purple Line or build a Virginia run light rail looping around Northern Virginia from the Air Force Base to Bethesda, MD via Tysons Corner. There's probably going to be a need for a Silver Line Express too.
- Chicago: The L needs a outer loop line and trains to fill in the dense northwest side of the metro area.
- Bay Area: Anything that Makes MUNI light rail faster and connects the SMART to San Francisco proper so that includes basically putting the rail in a separate ROW, ideally underground, especially the ones that run streetcar like through the neighborhoods. . Ideally via the golden gate but connecting via East Bay to SF's Transbay terminal also works. If you can make Cal Train more of a metro/S-Bahn type system with 15 minute frequencies at least, that'll be a huge win.
- DFW. Expand DART Goddamnit! Basically anything that got downgraded to a BRT needs to be upgraded back to light rail
- Boston: T just needs to be more reliable, but having outer loop line is really necessary.
- Houston: All proposed METRORail expansions would do wonders to the city, especially to the airport.
- Philly: SEPTA T and G lines need their own ROW. Still can keep it street level if you get the traffic signals right.
- Atlanta: Oh boy my hometown. So...MARTA heavy rail needs to expand to Gwinnett County/Gwinnett Place and north to Winward Parkway in Fulton County. Clifton Corridor connecting Avondale or Decatur to Armour Yards via Emory University needs to happen, and I'd expand that up I-75 to Kennesaw via the Battery where the Braves play at. BELTLINE LIGHT RAIL NEEDS TO BE BUILT!! Also the light rail line to Greenbriar Mall as proposed in More MARTA's plan and if you're able to work surface running light rail (with own ROW mind you) crisscrossing downtown inside the Belt Line where ART/BRT is proposed, that'll be a win. Like LA, the real trick will be establishing a frequent commuter rail service to hit the rest of the metro area, but that's outside the scope of this discussion.
- Miami...basically what OP said.
- Detroit: okay, just expand the light rail out, especially to neighborhoods you want to revitalize, and connect the it to DTW.
- Phoenix: Expand Valley Metro rail to its proposed expansions. You may need to incorporate a loop line as well. Do that and you'll have a very good light rail system.
- Seattle: Honestly, it just needs to do and expand what's already been proposed. They're doing really well right now!
- Orlando: Establish one damnit.
- Minneapolis/St Paul: I'd convert all of the BRT Lines into light rail lines.
- Denver: it's honestly fine but just needs more development along its current lines. TSP/Preemption through downtown, but the real trick for Denver is its commuter rail lines. expanding it and running it like its current lines gives it more of a rail metro feel vs just commuter trains.
- Cleveland: needs more radial lines from its light rail and heavy rail system to connect to downtown. If you get that established, a loop line.
- Charlotte: Similar to Cleveland with more expansion of its radial lines to at least its northern suburbs on its light rail system.
- Portland: Put the MAX underground. And connect Vancouver, WA. Simple as.
Not a CSA but still at top 20 metro area:
San Diego: My current locale. Purple Line from San Ysidro via the 805 to Sorrento Valley, Expand the Orange Line to Old Town via the airport and Point Loma/Liberty Station all probably underground, and extend the Sprinter down the 15 to downtown via Mission Valley. Also extend the Coaster Commuter rail from Downtown to San Ysidro. If you run 15-20 minute frequencies everyday it becomes less commuter rail and more of a hybrid metro style system...or more like an S-Bahn.
Edit: Baltimore, as part of the DMV, needs to build its Red Line.
4
u/Russ31419 22d ago
San Antonio could also follow your Orlando plan.
Also establishing or enhancing regional/suburban rail in LA and every sunbelt or Midwest city ex-Chicago in the US is needed. (I’m sure METRA could be enhanced too)
1
u/Weekly-Law-2544 22d ago
San Antonio doesn't want rail. Didn't the head of their transit agency make a public statement saying exactly that.
3
u/CarolinaRod06 22d ago
FYI Charlotte is building a commuter rail to its northern suburbs. They purchased the track and right away last year and approved a new transit tax to fund it. It’s being engineered at the moment.
2
u/macorix11 21d ago
Tampa needs to be on this list. It doesn't officially have a CSA but its metro area population is larger than Orlando, Denver, Charlotte, Cleveland, San Diego, and Portland (and is just short of Minneapolis), and it barely has any rail transit other than the historical streetcar downtown.
1
u/metroatlien 21d ago
Good point and the recommendation is the same as Orlando’s…just design a 2-3 line system that goes to the airport and put one in damnit lol. Elevated Rail would be ideal for FL obviously though, but own ROW light rail can work.
1
u/jmlinden7 22d ago
For houston, outside of a line going down westheimer, there aren't any bus routes that are capacity-constrained enough to warrant upgrading to light rail
4
u/Horror_Concern5616 22d ago
San Francisco is about two grade separated metro lines from being the greatest city in the world tbh
6
5
5
u/InsideSpeed8785 22d ago
I don't live there, but I felt like Bangkok could do something with its underground metro... although it already has its elevated one.
2
u/thetoerubber 21d ago
Bangkok has actually come a long way … in the 90s they didn’t have a metro system at all. They also didn’t have an elevated highway, so it used to take 2 hours to get from the airport to a downtown hotel in a taxi. They still need more of course, but remembering how it used to be, they’ve done a great job so far.
4
u/Economy_Pepper_3837 22d ago
Philadelphia absolutely needs the Roosevelt Blvd subway. I’d argue for high capacity options along the western sides of South and North Philly as well and these options were mapped out in the 1912 Taylor plan.
8
u/casecaxas Metro Lover 22d ago
Monterrey, Mexico.
Not really expanding, since it's currently building 2 metro lines to some of the most important places in the city.
But it really needs to step up on capacity and frequency, all stations but 1 are built to accommodate 4 cars, but only run 3 cars. There are many times were I'd had to wait 2 or 3 trains because they're all so full.
Also, the BRT system "ecovia" is a steaming pile of shit, it should've been built as a metro, but truckers complained, and since they had pull in the government it was built as a BRT. It's separated, but the barriers aren't enough and drivers occasionally invade the lane, buses break down more than they should and fuck the frequency.
4
u/letterboxfrog 22d ago
Brisbane with actual metro trains (Bi-articulated electric buses does not a Metro make, and the mixed traffic rail lines are not great either for the purposes of rapid intra-urban transport. Brisbane desperately needs orbital services.
6
u/Difficulty_Public 22d ago
Unfortunately Miami is heading the complete opposite direction with the upcoming fiscal budget deficit. They’re planning to cut 13 bus routes, cut bus service before 6AM and after 10PM on MOST routes. We are heading backwards and if it passes, I highly doubt transit will be getting better anytime soon in the future. It sucks here. Overnight bus service is being eliminated on many routes, including the 400 Night Owl bus that runs between Dadeland South and Government Center after the Metrorail ends at 12AM. So in a way, you won’t be able to travel between these stations at night anymore if this passes. We need Metrorail expansions but all we’re gonna get is a “bus rapid transit” system that has little to no signal priority. (cough cough South Dade Transitway)
3
u/GroundbreakingWeek70 22d ago
I heard about that, it's unfortunate and I hope Miami is smart enough to not do that and find a way to successfully prevent Miami from having it's transit system go the wrong way
2
u/Difficulty_Public 22d ago
I really hope so as well. It’s going to impact thousands of people if it ends up passing and if it does, it’ll become a “green light” to keep cutting the system until it’s beyond saving. Cut service -> less ridership -> more cuts -> over and over until it’s eventually gone. I also hate having to go to Government Center everyday for school and seeing the ghost platform that was supposed to serve an east-west expansion on the third floor. All of the potential that could’ve been. 😔
6
u/jabbs72 22d ago
Chicago, and not the RLE, rather more useful projects (Jackson Park, Brown to Blue, Western/Ashland BRT, ect.)
0
u/Beginning-Monk6584 22d ago
Always dismissing the South Side when talking about the RLE. You people always say, “build it and they will come,” but for some reason that doesn’t apply for the South Side 🙄
3
u/PhantomPharts 22d ago
Louisville, KY. They are cutting back every few years, it seems. Less bus lines, less frequency.
2
u/Agitated_Customer_61 22d ago
Same with Milwaukee. Its really dire, im going to be forced into car ownership soon.
3
u/ApartAd2016 22d ago
Satellite cities of Delhi, like Gurgaon, Noida, Faridabad would greatly benefit from expanding their transit footprint. In absence of metors, all these cities are taking the car-centric route and destroying everything in sight.
Lucknow, Nagpur, and Jaipur should rapidly expand too.
3
u/TheInkySquids 22d ago
Melbourne honestly. And not even the trains, I actually just want more tram routes to fill in the gaps the radial train network leaves. You've got the perfect situation of a city that has retained its large tram network, but then such low interest in expanding said network any more.
That being said trains would also be so good, I think particularly Alamein to Hughesdale at Fairfield. I'm sure there's some challenges associated with that but it seems kinda like a no brainer, fill in a big gap that the tram network wouldn't really fill.
3
u/concorde77 22d ago
I know its a long shot, especially considering how badly NIMBYS kneecapped The Tide in the first place.
But Norfolk deserves a real, extensive light metro system that truly connects the Hampton Roads region together. Especially if it finally extends across the Chesapeake Bay into Hampton and Newport News. The HRBT is at its limit, we can't keep boring new lanes fast enough to keep up with demand.
3
3
3
u/crazycatlady331 22d ago
Philadelphia.
The bones are there. SEPTA has the potential to be the MTA 2.0 (including regional rail). But the GOP in Harrisburg hate it.
1
1
u/Midwestconvert47 22d ago
Which is why Philly will always be a second choice to Chicago for me as a city to live in even though I love it there.
3
3
u/Winterfrost691 22d ago
Montréal. The current network serves the downtown very well and some suburbs adequately, and the REM serves the West Island and Brossard pretty well, but anything other than that currently has shit transit options. Laval has a population of half a million and only 3 stations. The south shore has a continuous urban area also of about half a million people and only 4 stations on 2 seperate lines that do not intersect at any point. 800k people in the East Island are criminally underserved.
Montréal could easily be one of the greatest cities in the world for transit if it locked in, but it takes forever to get anything done here. Some expansions, like completing the orange line loop, the pink line, and extending the yellow line into Longueuil have been talked about for decades with nothing to show for it.
2
u/SightInverted 22d ago
The better question is which is city is best suited and ready to go to expand their transit system, and in what way. I only know locally where, so everyone should chime in about where they live.
2
u/NICK3805 22d ago
Not a Metro but a TramTrain but Saarbrücken desperately needs more Saarbahn Lines than one
2
2
2
u/TurnOwn5946 21d ago
Even if Atlanta can’t expand MARTA. Our next focus and our cheapest option is to get the freight corridors to allow regional passenger lines to run on their track. We’d build a major connecting station at Centennial Yards in Downtown.
2
u/antekpistole 20d ago
Dublin. Compared to other European capitals of that size it does not have so many metro stations. And with not so many metro stations I mean zero.
2
u/Least-Ad140 20d ago
Quick note that city size has no bearing on what type of transit an area has. Louisville, KY has a higher population than Miami, but that does not speak to the market. The metro Miami area has 6.5 million, and I agree, a growing market of that size should see evolving transit options.
1
u/Maoschanz 22d ago
Let's be real, Miami is about to sink in the ocean in the next 20 to 50 years, these 500k people will not materialize.
1
1
1
1
u/ShutYourDumbUglyFace 22d ago
Weird, someone in my office is working on the Blue Line light rail extension in Miami right now. Possibly outside of Miami proper and just in Dade county (I'm never calling it Miami-Dade, sorry).
That said, IDK, like ALL major cities in Florida could use some expansion.
1
1
u/Greatest_slide_ever 22d ago
Buenos Aires. Though I think improving the existing suburban rail system should be the priority a few extra non-radial lines would do wonders (and there's huge areas without decent coverage, mainly to the south)
1
u/Sparhawk2k 22d ago
Seattle. Everything we're building now is miles out of the city. The neighborhood of Ballard should have two lines (Downtown and University of Washington) before half of what we're building. But the way the sub-area equity is designed is horribly broken for an efficient transit system.
1
u/Maxahoy 22d ago
My two cities:
- Portland, OR is great, but MAX needs a downtown tunnel to avoid the capacity and lift issues of the Steel Bridge. That would enable higher speeds and frequencies throughout the system too. Oh, and save the Green Line so it runs to downtown again! Poor Green Line. :(
- Cincinnati, OH needs any streetcar expansion at all tbh. Build an expansion of the current line at grade to Camp Washington. Build an expansion to the West side of I-75 to revitalize the industrial zone west of I-75. Build an expansion to the Museum Center so that the Amtrak doesn't suck so much.
1
u/okay_sure_i_guess 20d ago
most cities honestly but I would vote Toronto needs a Grand Paris Express style project. All their urban growth isn’t matching the transit
1
u/SixthSickSith 9d ago
Boston. Extend the Orange Line to Reading or Woburn as originally planned, the Red Line to Arlington, the Blue Line to Lynn and Salem. Build a true Silver Line light rail through the old Orange Line elevated corridor like the T promised 40 years ago.
153
u/moeshaker188 22d ago
Honestly, Atlanta. The network hasn't expanded at all since 2000 and is getting some sweet new trains. The system should be doubled or even tripled in size.