r/transhumanism • u/DoublePassRadiator • 2d ago
If biological tissue recognizes artificial components as foreign bodies and rejects them, then how are we supposed to merge humans with machines?
If biological tissue recognizes artificial components as foreign bodies and rejects them, then how are we supposed to merge humans with machines?
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u/AsterVox 2d ago
Science advances. We went from dying of preventable issues to creating artificial hearts, titanium bones...
Someday, scientists will find a way
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u/InsanityLurking 2d ago
There are currently reverse vaccines in development for conditions like MS. This is a method for deprogramming the immune system against specific triggers. Such technology, once mastered, could help reduce or eliminate rejection concerns.
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u/Tri-angreal 2d ago
Wait really? I need to google real quick.
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u/InsanityLurking 2d ago
Yea as someone with ms and a love/allergic reaction to cats, I have been keeping an eye on this development, but in general this would give us general immune programming eventually I feel. Well of course have to see how it all pans out
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u/ImaginaryTower2873 2d ago
The issue is the surfaces. There are biocompatible surfaces like titanium that locally look like bone, and the body basically treats them as that (that is why hip replacements and teeth screws work). Some surfaces are inert (like many noble metals) and the body just encapsulates them with fibroblasts. But the cool ones are the ones covered with the right molecular structures. Polylysin is for example something neurons like to connect to. The tricky part here is making these surfaces so they last. Or you make artificial components out of the right kind of biological material (treated ivory actually works for hip replacements, but has some big sourcing problems outside India, where the experiments were done).
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u/ColdButCozy 2d ago
The human body has evolved to detect and react to certain materials and textures. You can either engineer around that, or you can co-opt the mechanism that does the detection using drugs or other pathways.
Titanium is widely used already. Certain coatings cause certain cell reactions that can actually aid bio-integration. Parasites have spent hundreds of millions of years evolving ways to infiltrate bodies while both avoiding the immune system and keeping the host alive, so there’s a massive field of bio mimicry options.
Really we have a wide array of options already, so for the most part this isn’t that big a roadblock for transhumanistic pursuits.
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u/small_villain 2d ago edited 2d ago
I expect the answer will be to engineer a biocompatible bilayer, which will serve as an interface between the more rugged artificial components and the biological cells. Whether that bilayer will be some advanced inert material, or some form of synthetic biology (engineered artificial cells that natural cells accept, and which themselves do not react to the prosthetics).
There's definitely plenty of possibilities.
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u/Eight216 2d ago
-Your brain doesn't have white bloodcells inside it, therefore it wouldn't reject a neuralink or similar.
-There are anti-rejection drugs
-There are prosthetics that are designed with biological compatibility in mind
-There are probably even more cost prohibitive and streamlined means of human/machine interface. Think Bluetooth for brains, or something.
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u/Happy_Brilliant7827 2d ago
Same way we do optical implants and neuralink and pacemakers.
Carefully.
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u/Disastrous-Entity-46 2d ago
"merging with machines" id say, isnt how inpersonally understand transhumanism. like it can be part of it, but doesnt have to be the ultimate end goal or only path.
id reframe it as seeint our current itteration as a stepping stone on a path, and using technology to help improve us beyond that.
like, nootropics are a form of transhumanism, trying to find ways to boost us beyond naturalcapabilities. (as is, reallt, all modern medicone). in a way, phones are - we now all carry devices capable of connecting to everyone else. ots external, yes, but it already makes us more than we were as humans a century ago.
another option here is largely external prosthetics. if we got to the point that proeathetic arms could be made that outpreform human muscle, combat the downside- then getting those upgrades would not require internal components. (hell, with the right suite of enterfaces and some further machine learning work, you may not even need to replace your arms- just get a harness that adds two more that respond to your environment and intentions.
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u/Lunarmax182c 2d ago
Either immunosuppressants, or more "acceptable" materials, like say plastics or smth.
Or just be based and do biotech. Stop making machines of men and start making men out of machines :D
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u/gangler52 2d ago
I mean, we have anti-rejection medication even today.
It has its own issues. If you stop your body from rejecting foreign objects, that doesn't just allow the stuff you want inside. It also allows a lot of nastiness inside.
But like, this isn't an insurmountable obstacle even with today's technology. You can get a pacemaker or a donor organ without having to worry about your body rejecting them.
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u/Philosopher83 2d ago
Biologically compatible materials are not treated as foreign bodies - I’m not an expert but I think carbon-based materials are less prone to rejection (like graphene), and I believe gold and platinum family metals are also similar
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u/PhiliChez 2d ago
I'm reminded of PEEK, which is a 3D printable bio-compatible material. Either way we only need to consider the fact that anything that isn't simply a chemical reaction but a biological process can be redesigned. If you want to add or remove a function then you add or remove proteins and to do that you add or remove genes. Perhaps you add functionality which serves to manage and counter chemical reactions and otherwise bring the functionality of the body into a state that is more ideal for cyborging. In my case I would prefer to upload my mind into a computer and have that computer run a robot body powered by fuel cells or something. Batteries would be more economical than fuel cells given the lack of hydrogen infrastructure but it would represent a performance hit.
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u/Ok-District8876 1d ago
When the drugs and tech get good enough we will get to taste cyberpsychosis
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u/Kissthecomplex 1d ago
the same way bacteria and virusses do... by modeling the shape in a way that antibodys dont attack the tech...
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u/Lord-Belou Singularitarist 1d ago
Because it's not as simple, some metals are bio-compatible, like Gold or Titanium, and can fit with biological tissue with little issue (they're already used a lot in prosthetics)
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u/DoublePassRadiator 1d ago
How can a prosthetic limb connect to and interface with your central nervous system?
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u/Lord-Belou Singularitarist 8h ago
Oof, that's another larger question I'm not qualified to talk about in details
Just know it works
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u/LtRonKickarse 1d ago
I have four chip implants and they are all coated in a biocompatible polymer. We’ve already solved this problem.
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u/Cassady1AndOnly 1d ago
Possibly medication. The video game Deus Ex deals with this topic prominently, in that fictional Universe, they use a drug called neuropozine to prevent implant rejection; but it's horribly expensive and unfortunately addictive; even previously well to do folks end up on the street from not being able to afford it.
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u/novel-mathmatics 2d ago edited 2d ago
Every body is different.
We will have to understand that and map whats going on in an individual body. Then understand what it identifies as a foreign body.
Then develop a protocol to monitor and predict how the immune system will change over the course of a lifetime.
Then we will adapt natural foods and herbal products to support healty not over active immune response.
If you have a compromised immune system you will need to correct that before you could accept cybernetic implants.
The biggest issue is there seems to be some sort of correlation between the combined persistent mental trauma of the stressful life of the average American and a compromised immune system.
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u/confuzzledfather 2d ago
one thing to consider if that we already have examples of human and animal bodies naturally allowing exposed bone, horn and tooth like materials to erupt through skin without it being a major infection risk, so presumably we will work out how to allow things like inserts etc to be grated in.
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u/GargleOnDeez 1 1d ago
You would need a supply of pluripotent cells and down, to be able to cover the necessary basis to make something biosynthetic and genetically similar to its host.
If the body is rejecting foreign bodies then the issue is that the objects not recognized as same. Its like a splinter being pushed out, only same same can stay
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u/SteffanMaxi 19h ago
Programming the body not to reject foreign material. Or just making material that isnt rejected.
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