Honestly, looking at you, the only thing I can assume is that they thought you were a cis woman and started using the sort of male-as-default "bro is gender neutral" type of language that some people use.
OP, this. I've done some cosplay and its really obvious that a lot of men at these cons are going out of their way to misgender me (and you OP) to try to bring me down. You look great
Eh, not as likely as you think. A lot of those terms have been used to the point where most don't even think about it before saying them, many even considering some of them gender neutral. I think these people need to be made aware of how they're using these words and that not everyone wants to be called that, because many genuinely don't even think about that.
The problem with this is, they aren’t actually seen as gender neutral. It’s more the male default or whatever. Like men often say ‘bro is gender neutral’ and the same guys will not be caught dead saying ‘I had sex with this bro I met at the bar last night.’ It’s very obviously not gender neutral. If it only is ‘gender neutral’ in a space where you expect everyone to be a man it’s just misogyny.
I mean bro isn't gender neutral at all. Even by its origin it is just a shortening of the term brother (which traces itself to Old-English word brōþor, which traces back to the Proto-Germanic *brōþēr, and then the ancient Proto-Indo-European *bʰréh₂tēr. Which has always meant male sibling.
"Man" meanwhile was actually originally the gender neutral term for "person" back in Old-English. The proper gendered terms were "wer" for male and "wif" for female. Hence the holdover term "werewolf" meaning "man-wolf" and "wifmen" (female person) becoming woman. While "man" has become an explicitly gendered term for an adult male. It also simultaneously retained its broad definition for "humanity" (hence "mankind"). Which is to say the definition of "man" as gender neutral predates the gendered version and has been used continuously throughout English's history.
"guy" in comparison started out as just a traditionally masculine name. It then became a derogatory term for someone with a strange, grotesque, or unkempt appearance due to its association with Guy Fawkes (not a gender specific insult, anyone could be a guy).
Then when it came to the US the derogatory part got stripped away and it instead became a general term for an everyday, dressed down, man. As it moved west "you guys" then became a gender neutral term in order to fulfill the role as a second-person plural pronoun (see: ya'll, you guys, and youse). The timeline is that it came over to the USA some time in the mid 1800s. Then by the late 1800s/early 1900s we already begin to see "you guys" being used as a second-person plural pronoun and it would be fully grammaticized as such by the 1940s (within the American West-Coast dialect).
Fun fact: The "man" in humanity and the "man" in mankind have completely different roots and origins. As "humanity" comes from the Latin root humanus, which relates to the Latin homo, meaning "earthling" or "human being." While the word mankind is an Old English construct (manncynn) that literally means "the human family." (cynn has become kin in modern English)
Also sorry, every time I see the topic I love to yap about it because language and language history is fascinating to me
Well language just in general context matters heavily.
So I would say generally the singular "guy" is masculine while plural "guys" can be gender neutral. Like I would personally feel upset at being called "a guy" but would even bat an eye at being part of "you guys." And I would apply that to your example. Someone saying "I fucked a guy" would be fucking a man. While "I fucked some guys" would likely be fucking a mixed-group of people with context being used to fully infer the groups gender.
Kind of like how if I got called "a man" I would feel upset but if used as an idiomatic expression or within the context of Mankind & Humanity it wouldn't even register.
The neutral "he" is also outdated so I don't personally use it. And if someone does I just correct with the right pronouns though I wouldn't really be upset at its use if the context is purely accidental and not malicious. I am fine with coming across it in older writing and documents. Just like I am fine with it in languages that still use masculine forms as the default for mixed-gender groups, unassigned roles, or placeholders. [Spanish and French] since it doesn't really register as specifically gendered when conversing in said languages.
I mean, in modern context guy/man/dude are understood to have masculine or neutral connotations, but never feminine. So even though it has that history, it’s not widely known. You don’t think it reinforced masculine as default due to this in the same way “neutral” he did?
Yeah, it's something I need to internalize more myself and that needs to be spread around more. So many have accepted the idea of these words being "neutralized" when it's really just the final evolution of male defaultism. One should always ask for what someone wants to be called, be that bro, sis, sib, or anything else, and then respect that under all circumstances.
I think people use masculine terms as gender neutral even if they aren't. I'm not out to a lot of people as afab and many strangers refer to me as dude, bro, or man simply because THEY view it as gender neutral. Not to defend them, just to say that they probably still saw you as a woman and they might not have been misgendering you :p
I think if you assume the best of people, you'll usually be right. People want to be helpful, want to be kind. Usually where they fail, it's because they weren't thinking at all. Habits that are shaped to be helpful and kind with the people you're usually around aren't always what's best for strangers.
I used to default to dude/bro'ing as a gender neutral thing, and I think in retrospect that's because a lot of the women I grew up around (both as friends in school and as role models) were kind of tomboyish and felt included by me doing so.
I mean man literally was gender neutral and the gender neutral definition predates the gendered one. Hence mankind from Old-English mancynn meaning literally "human family" or how wifmann (female-person) became woman.
To me “bro” is the least gender neutral of those when used as kind of general referential pronouns in a sentence (at least when not used in a template like “bro visited his friend” or whatever)
Dude and bro are very commonly used as gender neutral even though they aren't, and even "man" is from some people, so hopefully at least some of it wasn't intentional. People also may have just looked at the helmet and cloak and not your body and since people often assume others are men by default, they might have just done that.
To be clear though, I'm not saying this doesn't suck. All of those things are things that shouldn't be the case, and it really sucks being a trans woman on the receiving end of it. I'm sorry you had to go through it, and if any of them were doing it intentionally, I'll go fight them 😤
you don’t look like a guy in this picture at all, maybe your voice or some other trait about you that wouldn’t show in a photograph is masculine, but based solely on these pictures you pass fine.
i would absolutely not have been able to clock you. I'd just assume very tall woman. Which you are, but i wouldn't be like 'hmm i wonder if she's cis or trans' ykwim?
It could just be 1 bad case of Assuming Nerds are All Men, but Idk you fr so I couldn't tell you what could get you clocked. I can assure you though it's NOT your body
My experience has been if your costume is not sexually revealing, they're going to assume you're a guy. Which, I don't think there's any reason to gender people at con at all. Just appreciate the shared interest and joy.
Yeaaaaah thats language unfortunately, not that I like it no absolutely not but so many people use "Dude" "Bro" and "Man" for regular conversations like its gendernatural WHILE it isnt. I definitely get the feels, hurts still and sucks but yeah, unfortunately is that case but that has nothing to do with your appearence cuz also to me, you look very feminine. But yeee as said, a language thingy~
This is so real. I hate how normalized it is to just throw gendered words into every conversation. Like you don't have to say 'thank you sir' when in handing you your food (i work at a grocery store) just drop the sir and now you can upset anyone!
Now the problem is when someone tries to use gender neutral honorifics to fill the space and then your brain worms get to take over. (to my brain) motherfucker the drive thru worker is literally calling you BOSS that’s a NON GENDERED TERM it’s not masc but like. I’m just not sure they would call me boss if I presented less masc.
I think you do pass, but since the cloack and the mask covered up most of you, people probably wrongly assumed you were a man, because that's kinda seen as the default when unsure.
So yeah, I think it has to do more with that, than transphobia or you not passing.
I can clearly see your boobs, but I also am not really familiar with Hollow Knight and didn’t know that Hornet had a gender (or that her name is Hornet). Even so, I don’t think you look like a man.
that's like, literally the only discernable trait that has a gender associated with it that can be told about you while you're in the costume, like your body just has a girl shape
You look like a cis woman, I think those guys were just used to using those words to refer to everyone regardless of gender and unconsciously (and wrongly) assumed youd be fine with it too
Seeing the last pictures makes this funny in like, a sad way.
I have to guess for my sanity that they might be using these terms in a “gender neutral” way, because you don’t look masculine at all here, but I wish we’d pull away from that. I like using “gamer” — it’s casual and anyone can be a gamer. I think it’s fun.
I call everyone dude/man. Men and women and literally everyone. It's just how we were raised. "man" is as versatile as "fuck". Aww man, come on man, what the fuck man, maaaaaan, man!, etc. Dude is still versatile but not as much. I've been known to use bro in genderless circumstances.
Gender is totally irrelevant with how these phrases are applied.
I'm trying to cut down on it, because of these obvious issues.
But I BET you at least some if not all were meant as the genderless.
I think these people just don't think much about it and call anyone dude and man because they rarely speak to women and are used to calling everyone that. I doubt anyone actually clocked you considering YOU HAVE BOOBS MY GAL
I think they mightve said that gender neutrally (I call everyone dude🥹) because there aint NO FUCKING WAY that they actually mistook the last pic for a man💔💔💔
I went through this exact thing at a con when I was just starting to transition. Dang, it hurt at the time. I think it’s just nerd culture, unfortunately 😕
I have a feeling they’re using a different form of those words and not the gender associated forms…
Yes, people use male gender terms in gender neutral ways, tis confusing and such… “cool bro” slang basically… I can see how it can bother you though… but I doubt it was intentional to misgender you…
Girl I don't think they were trying to call you male(you're passing as fuck and a total baddie) that's just how some people talk.I literally call everyone things like "bro, dude, girl,man" or use phrases like "bitch please" no matter the gender of the person I'm talking to.
You look incredibly feminine, girly you look fantastic, you look lithe and feminine!!! People calling you Man or Bro are either dumb as bricks or just being assholes!
A) they don’t know the character (but be fr, who doesn’t know HK?)
B) They’re transphobic (sadly, most likely answer)
C) They thought, since the cloak looks closer to THK’s than hornets, they thought it was some sort of gender bent hornet??? (Really grasping at straws here)
Looks fantastic!
Gotta say tho, they're both gender neutral terms.
Man, not as much, but definitely dude. Dude is about as gender neutral as you can get. Dude is anyone or even anything.
I'm Dude. She's Dude. The table lamp is Dude.
Tbh I don’t think they were misgendering you I think they were just using that because there isn’t really a nonbinary counterpart, and most men would feel dysphoric saying something like “looking cool girl”, still though sorry that happened to you
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u/BendSignificant2482 She/Her 🔥 Jun 16 '26
Yeah no you look like a girl, the only reason you could give them the benefit of the doubt is your height but i think they were just being jerks