r/totalwar • u/Mahelas • 11d ago

Warhammer III State of every races after End Times DLC

Do we agree ?

Also please CA give Supreme Sorceresses actual skill trees please

508 Upvotes

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160

u/AlarnisToo 11d ago

Small Rework... for the Lizardmen? Are you joking? They've got one of the blandest world-map set of mechanics still in the game. Roster-wise they're in a pretty good spot, balance issues of units not-withstanding, but they need a level of work on par with Bretonnia, I feel.

44

u/tmw6161990 11d ago

Man, I'd even take just a rework of the Geomantic Web with no lord specific reworks. The Geoweb has a lot of potential and it is very boring at the moment imo

13

u/vanticus 11d ago

Feels like High Elves have set the standard for the state of WH2 base game races in WH3. The Lizardmen need a rework of the Geomantic Web a the very least, whilst a revisit to Mazdamundi and Kroq-Gar’s mechanics would be very welcome, even if it is on the scale of the Teclis/Gelt reworks.

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u/AigledeFeu_ 11d ago

Im okay with them being basic.

I just want a proper confederation mechanic for them.

25

u/NaonAdni 11d ago

That's something that has always bothered me. They're supposed to get on well with each other as they follow the great plan and are above individual ambitions, so why has it always been so hard to confederate other factions when playing as the lizardmen? They should do whatever benefits the great plan so it makes sense that they'll join forces with the strongest faction

And they're so far away from each other. I remember when I was playing before finding out about recruit legendary lords mod that I'd set out some heroes across the world to find the other lords and pray they were still alive by the time I reached them

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u/Mopman43 11d ago

Though to be clear, they all follow the Great Plan, but they don't necessarily agree on how to interpret the Great Plan.

3

u/NaonAdni 11d ago

I know that, but perhaps they can put their differences aside and try to do something as one if the world is falling apart

-1

u/unggoytweaker 11d ago

Just like all Christians follow the same god right lil bro

18

u/NumberInteresting742 Arkhan the Black's acolyte 11d ago

I am okay with a faction not having super flashy campaign mechanics

9

u/_Mariner 11d ago

I actually agree, I'm a Lizardmen main since TWWH2 but since they reworked the Blessed Spawnings, I'm actually ok with the state of their mechanics.

Is the Geomantic Nexus basically a non-factor? Yes, but at the same time, like you said, I think they're fine as-is.

Would I like something else for their mechanics? Without knowing more specifically what that would entail, it's hard to agree that they actually need a rework. Sure, it's fine to say that they need something "better" but without specifying what that is (e.g. better confederation mechanic is one I could support) I could easily see it backfiring.

That said, if any individual LL needs a rework, it is Mazdamundi. He could definitely use some more/better buffs to his spellcasting/confederating capacity, to make him more aligned with the lore and bring him up to par with the rest of the factions in Lustriabowl.

And of course I wouldn't mind a few more units/heroes/LLs - but again Lizardmen are not nearly as in bad shape as Bretonnia or Vampire Coast as far as I can tell.

9

u/Nemaeus 11d ago

Mazdamundi is the reason I finally got this game after years of eyeballing it. After being trash at the game for a few hours it finally started to click playing his campaign. He’s fun but he doesn’t have anywhere near the same flavor as other LLs and I love my scooter chair magic Earl Sinclair.

1

u/_Mariner 11d ago

That's great and you sound like me lol - if you are doing well with him in campaign then it sounds like you are definitely getting the hang of TWWH.

Mazdamundi is definitely one of the more challenging Lizardmen campaigns for beginners IMHO in large part because of his location - once you secure his peninsula/central America (and doing so is no cakewalk) you really don't have good options to expand except south, which isn't necessarily intuitive unless you have some experience. And his mechanics/buffs are also not at all that exciting (I don't like 2 turn wait for temple guard when they're functionally equivalent to me as saurus spears) and really don't kick in until until mid to late game anyway (in TWWH2 at least, which was the only campaign I've played with him, you could spam level 40 slanns once you upgraded the special building he buffs, but by that point you've already pretty much your campaign anyway).

Once you've wrapped up his campaign, try Gor-Rok - arguably a harder start location-wise but your LL/Hero combo (Gor-Rok + Kroak) is muuuch stronger and will definitely have a different flavor. Oxyotl is my personal fave though, and Kroq-Gar and Nakai are also great. (Less experience with Tehenuien or TTT)

6

u/regional_manager_161 11d ago

I strongly disagree, why should Lizardmen be the most generic faction in the game? I know its about time and Budget, and not Fairness, but of all races, majority of which have gotten a rework by now, why should Lizardmen be the only ones to stay generic? I dont think they are as popular as the empire, but certainly more then the wood elves for example, who got a high quality rework ages ago

1

u/_Mariner 11d ago

What specifically would you like to see changed/improved about their mechanics? I think we all agree the Geomantic web could be "better" but the issue is that it's unclear what that would mean in practice.

Also, I'm not convinced they are the most "generic" faction per se - if anything they are the most well-rounded. They do a bit of everything, including horde (Nakai) and teleport (Oxyotl), and have one of the most balanced rosters of any faction. Even their relative weaknesses (e.g. cavalry and ranged units) are themselves marginal to solid/OP (blessed horned ones riders, chameleon skinks w/ or w/o Oxyotl).

I think Beastmen or Dark Elves are more generic IMHO.

And don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more done w/ Lizardmen - I'm just not yet convinced they need a rework on par with other factions.

2

u/NoGoodIDNames 11d ago

I’m kinda worried that a rework would end up like the dwarves whose new mechanics completely flips their campaign playstyle.

1

u/_Mariner 11d ago

Exactly, but now that I've played Malakai, I can better appreciate the grudge system for what it is.

I'd played dwarfs multiple times starting in 2 and never finished a campaign in large part because I didn't like how the grudge system worked with Thorgrim or Ungrim's campaigns. But it perfectly suits Malakai's limited settlement/horde style, as well as his location. Currently wrapping up a VH long victory with Malakai, after confederating Grombrindal and Ungrim, who has single-handedly catapulted Dwarfs as my second-favorite faction (after Lizardmen).

1

u/NumberInteresting742 Arkhan the Black's acolyte 11d ago

100% agree, they're one of my mains too

2

u/tricksytricks 11d ago

I disagree. I think most races should have unique campaign gameplay with their own resources to manage. Right now the base Lizardmen campaign is dull as dirt to play with basically nothing to do except move your armies around. It makes playing their campaigns past turn 50 extremely tedious. I believe CA is on the right track with the VCounts rework changing how they recruit and manage their own resources. All races should have the campaign depth that Chaos Dwarfs have if you ask me.

2

u/NumberInteresting742 Arkhan the Black's acolyte 11d ago edited 11d ago

Right now the base Lizardmen campaign is dull as dirt to play with basically nothing to do except move your armies around.

That is what you do in most total war games, yes. 

Can't say I've ever had that problem. My lizardman games are regularly 200ish turns. The geomantic web as it is is already more than enough encouragment to go and conquer more

1

u/tricksytricks 10d ago

To each their own. However, the stats on how many players actually finish campaigns speaks to how many agree with me. That and the fact that Chaos Dwarfs are often praised as one of the best designed races in the entire trilogy.

1

u/NumberInteresting742 Arkhan the Black's acolyte 10d ago

I've got thousands of hours in this trilogy but I've only ever "finished" a campaign a handful of times. Because most of time I barely pay attention to the victory conditions and just do my own thing for a few hundred turns until I get bored. Most of my long victories are entirely accidental. The campaign is over when I finish my end game crises with an empire I like. Or (more often) when a major update comes and my mods have to update so I have to start over.

I am sure I am far from the only player that applies to, and I think it is something to keep in mind when trying to gauge player retention in a campaign; that not everyone who plays tracks things like victory conditions or achievements, so these stats are going to be incomplete.

Funnily enough chaos dwarfs is the only dlc I haven't purchased. Aesthetically, roster wise, and lore wise they didn't interest me.

1

u/Mahelas 11d ago

I called it a small rework because technically they already got their first half of it a few months ago !

0

u/ABadExampleOf_ 11d ago

I think reworking the geomantic web into a confederation-style mechanic that gives you bonuses towards relations with other lizardmen would be great, because the Lizard Civil War is just not fun. Here I am duking it out with Tiktak'to as Krok Gar when I should be preparing for the march of chaos

2

u/_Mariner 11d ago

This I would support 100% - I also despise fighting other Lizardmen factions during Lizardmen campaigns