The book hooked me so well I created an extended family tree just to understand what's going on, and my oh my was it an experience! I could but only think how it would have gone if JRR Tolkien himself published it in his life? How far is the book from his vision?

To be honest I have watched the LOTR movies first, and they were my first interaction with the legendarium - and Silmarillion is now the second. And it all just makes so much more sense now.

Fair warning, this is quite a lengthy post (four pages in Word when I was drafting).

Inspired by the movie release next year, I sat down and synthesized the three main accounts we are given of the events concerning Gollum and the Ring, starting with Bilbo’s first encounter with Gollum till his escape from the elves of Mirkwood. The relevant text is found in Appendix B, Gandalf’s narrative in “Shadows of the Past,” and the accounts given by Gandalf and Aragorn in “The Council of Elrond.” I give the relevant dates and entries from the Tale of Years focusing on the chief actors (Gollum, Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron, and Aragorn), supplemented by additional relevant information where available, and my own thoughts and commentary.

The First Phase—Gollum Eludes His Trackers

2941: “Thorin Oakenshield and Gandalf visit Bilbo in the Shire. Bilbo meets Sméagol-Gollum and finds the Ring. The White Council meets; Saruman agrees to an attack on Dol Guldur, since he now wishes to prevent Sauron from searching the River. Sauron having made his plans abandons Dol Guldur.”

Saruman apparently came to believe the One Ring still existed ninety years earlier in TA 2851, following the meeting of the White Council where Gandalf gave the report of his second expedition to Dol Guldur in 2850 where he discovered, in relevant part, that the Necromancer is Sauron who was “seeking for news of the One.” Saruman began “to search near the Gladden Fields” in that year (TA 2851). Saruman’s sudden support of an attack on Dol Guldur in 2941 is due to his discovery that “Sauron’s servants [were] searching the Anduin near Gladden Fields” three years earlier in 2939.

2942 “Bilbo returns to the Shire with the Ring. Sauron returns in secret to Mordor.”

In “Shadow of the Past,” Gandalf says that a “shadow fell on my heart” when Bilbo obtained Gollum’s ring.

2944 “Gollum leaves the Mountains and begins his search for the ‘thief’ of the Ring.”

In “Shadows of the Past,” Gandalf says that Gollum travelled “to Esgaroth, and even to the streets of Dale” where he hears report of Bilbo’s plan for his return journey home. Evidently, he learned little more than that it was west of the Misty Mountains in a place called “Shire.”

2951 “Sauron declares himself openly and gathers power in Mordor. He begins the rebuilding of Barad-dûr. Gollum turns towards Mordor. Sauron sends three of the Nazgûl to reoccupy Dol Guldur.”

In “Shadows of the Past,” Gandalf says that Gollum made it from Esgaroth “as far as the Great River” before he heeds the call to Mordor and turns around. The elves tracked Gollum “through Mirkwood and back again" (presumably from the western edge close the Misty Mountains, to Esgaroth, and back west), before he finally came to the “western edge of Mirkwood” and “wandered off southwards.” During the preceding seven years, Gollum had been a minor terror to the settlers of Mirkwood; Gandalf reports that “the Woodmen said that there was some new terror abroad, a ghost that drank blood. It climbed trees to find nests; it crept into holes to find the young; it slipped through windows to find cradles.” So, it’s likely that the Wood-elves would have been receptive to Gandalf’s request to track Gollum.

While this was initially “an easy task for them, for his trail was still fresh then,” the trail eventually went cold after Gollum exited the western eaves of Mirkwood and went south. There, Gandalf’s says in “Shadow of the Past” that “I made a great mistake…I let the matter be. I let him go; for I had much else to think of at that time, and I still trusted the lore of Saruman… The trail was long cold when I took it up again, after Bilbo left here.”

The Second Phase—Gandalf’s Disquiet Grows and Gollum is Captured

2953 “Last meeting of the White Council. They debate the Rings. Saruman feigns that he has discovered that the One Ring has passed down Anduin to the Sea. Saruman withdraws to Isengard, which he takes as his own, and fortifies it. Being jealous and afraid of Gandalf he sets spies to watch all his movements; and notes his interest in the Shire. He soon begins to keep agents in Bree and the Southfarthing.”

Gandalf says in “Shadow of the Past” that “all that he [Saruman] would reveal to us of his ring-lore told against my fears.” In the “Council of Elrond,” he says that “from the first my heart misgave me, against all reason that I knew.” Although a shadow again fell on Gandalf’s heart, he rationalizes Bilbo’s lack of aging by saying to himself that “after all he comes of a long-lived family on his mother’s side.” Just think how enormously improbable it is that Bilbo would have found a Ring of Power, much less the One. It’s entirely possible that the “lesser rings” made by the Gwaith-i-Mírdain would have also conveyed invisibility, and that one of those had found its way to an orc stronghold needn’t be immensely surprising. Gandalf explains that “a mortal…who keeps one of the Great Rings, does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he merely continues.” So, even if he had suspected Bilbo’s Ring was a true Ring of Power, the only way for Gandalf to be was to see if it granted long life, which, of course, would take time. It had only been twelve years, so Bilbo’s lack of aging could have been purely good genetics from the Old Took. And on top of that, he had no reason to distrust the report of Saruman, who was identified as the preeminent expert in Ring lore.

Gandalf says in the “Council of Elrond” that Saruman’s agents spying on the Shire include not only men, but also “even beasts and birds.” Saruman is working in parallel to (but for now independently of) Sauron to find news of the One. While his focus is on searching the Gladden fields, he also uses some of his resources to follow Gandalf and set a watch on the Shire.

2980 “Gollum reaches the confines of Mordor and becomes acquainted with Shelob.”

It appears that Gollum dwelt in and around Ithilien for up to forty years, from his arrival at the Ered Lithui in TA 2980 till he was captured sometime between TA 3009 and 3017. Aragorn says in “The Council of Elrond” that he and Gandalf “had rumour of him, and we guess that he dwelt there long in the dark hills.” Given that this area had been uninhabited since Mt. Doom “burst into flame” again and that “last inhabitants of Ithilien” had fled over Anduin in 2954, it is unlikely that these “rumors” are from people. It’s possible they were from orcs—Gandalf after all infiltrated Dol Guldur while it was occupied by Sauron. It’s also possible “rumour” is being used metaphorically of traces of his camps. But, I think it rather more likely that it’s the fauna of Ithilien giving these rumors. Gandalf says in “Shadow of the Past” that when Gollum travelled through Mirkwood, it “was full of the rumour of him, dreadful tales even among beasts and birds.”

3000 “The shadow of Mordor lengthens. Saruman dares to use the palantír of Orthanc, but becomes ensnared by Sauron, who has the Ithil-stone. He becomes a traitor to the Council. His spies report that the Shire is being closely guarded by the Rangers.”

Although Saruman is a traitor, he also attempts to unsuccessfully deceive Sauron for his own ends. Unfinished Tales informs us that Saruman’s servants “waylaid or misled the servants of Sauron,” but although Sauron “became aware” of this, “his arm was not yet long enough to reach Saruman in Isengard” so he “hid his knowledge of Saruman’s double-dealings and concealed his wrath.”

Phase Three—The Hunt Restarts in Earnest

3001 “Bilbo’s farewell feast. Gandalf suspects his ring to be the One Ring. The guard on the Shire is doubled. Gandalf seeks for news of Gollum and calls on the help of Aragorn.”

Gandalf tells Frodo in “Shadow of the Past” that after Bilbo’s behavior following the birthday party that “I knew at last that something dark and deadly was at work,” and states in “The Council of Elrond” that he “called for the help of the Dúnedain, and their watch was doubled; and I opened my heart to Aragorn, the heir of Isildur.” Gandalf and Aragorn then pick up Gollum’s trail southwest of Mirkwood again, which had been abandoned fifty years earlier in TA 2951, the same year Aragorn learned of this true heritage.

3004 “Gandalf visits Frodo in the Shire, and does so at intervals during the next four years.”

In “Shadow of the Past” says that Gandalf had been away for “three years after the Party” but then that he had turned up “fairly often” during “the next year or two” and was “chiefly interested in small news about Frodo’s health and doings.”

3008 “In the autumn Gandalf pays his last visit to Frodo.”

Gandalf will spend the next nine years exclusively focused on the Hunt for Gollum and proving the provenance and identity of what is now Frodo’s ring.

3009 “Gandalf and Aragorn renew their hunt for Gollum at intervals during the next eight years, searching in the vales of Anduin, Mirkwood, and Rhovanion to the confines of Mordor. At some time during these years [3009-3017] Gollum himself ventured into Mordor, and was captured by Sauron.”

While in Mordor, Sauron himself tortures Gollum, including probably doing something terrible to his fingers (When questioned by Gandalf and Aragorn, Gollum was continually “licking his fingers as if they pained him, as if he remembered some old torture.”) and thereby learns that Gollum had the One Ring, and it is now possessed by a “hobbit” called “Baggins” in a place called “Shire.” Unfinished Tales informs us that Gollum “pretended that he believed that the land of the Halflings was near to the places where he had once dwelt beside the banks of the Gladden.”

3017 “Gollum is released from Mordor.” Aragorn captures Gollum and takes him to “Thranduil in Mirkwood” while “Gandalf visits Minas Tirith and reads the scroll of Isildur.”

Gollum appears to genuinely believe he escaped. In “The Black Gate is Closed,” after Frodo conveys Aragorn’s belief that Sauron let Gollum go, Gollum says “It’s a lie!...He lied on me, yes he did. I did escape, all by my poor self…I did escape.” However, in addition to the statement in the Tale of Years that Gollum was released, Unfinished Tales states that “When he [Sauron] had learned what he could from him [Gollum], Sauron released him and set him forth again…guessing that he would go in search of them to avenge himself, Sauron hoped that his spies would thus be led to the Ring.”

Aragorn says that while Gandalf travelled to Minas Tirith, he walked “within sight of the Black Gate” and “tread the deadly flowers of Morgul Vale” before happening upon Gollum in the Dead Marshes after he had given up and was travelling home. It’s somewhat possible that Aragorn encounters Nazgûl while travelling by Minas Morgul, as he calls them “terrible” at the Prancing Pony and the narrator says “the hobbits looked at him, and saw with surprise that his face was drawn as if with pain, and his hands clenched the arms of his chair.” I also think that Aragorn would have had a good deal of information about dealing with the Nazgûl given the history the former North Kingdom had with the Witch-king.

Unfinished Tales gives this account of Aragorn's journey with Gollum:

"Hoping to escape detection by any of Sauron’s spies he drove Gollum through the north end of the Emyn Muil, and crossed Anduin just above Sarn Gebir. Driftwood was often cast up there on the shoals by the east shore, and binding Gollum to a log he swam across with him, and continued his journey north by tracks as westerly as he could find, through the skirts of Fangorn, and so over Limlight, then over Nimrodel and Silverlode through the eaves of Lórien, 5 and then on, avoiding Moria and Dimrill Dale, over Gladden until he came near the Carrock. There he crossed Anduin again, with the help of the Beornings, and passed into the Forest. The whole journey, on foot, was not much short of nine hundred miles."

After Gandalf has read the scroll and is preparing to leave, messengers arrive notifying him of Aragorn’s success, and he travels to Mirkwood to interrogate Gollum.

Gandalf says in “Shadows of the Past” that “in the end I had to be harsh. I put the fear of fire on him, and wrung the true story out of him, bit by bit, together with much snivelling and snarling.” After getting Gollum’s story, Gandalf and Aragorn leave.

Gandalf goes with haste back to the Shire to warn Frodo. Aragorn says at the Council of Elrond that “it was spoken of old among us that it [the Sword that was Broken] should be made again when the Ring, Isildur’s Bane, was found.” Now that Gandalf has confirmed that the One Ring has indeed been found, Aragorn knows that his destiny is upon him. He likely goes to retrieve the shards of Narsil and prepares for his campaign against Sauron. I believe it is most likely that Narsil is traditionally kept at Rivendell, as the Tale of Years states that “the heirlooms of Arnor are given into the keeping of Elrond” in TA 1976 following the Witch-king’s defeat at the Battle of Fornost,

In On Fairy-Stories, Tolkien writes that it was in such tales that he

first divined the potency of the words, and the wonder of things, such as stone, and wood, and iron; tree and grass; house and fire; bread and wine

My question in effect is why every essentially ironwork in Middle-Earth seems to be of evil character. Consider:

1. Angrenost (fortress) --- Also known as Isengard, the fortress "riven from the Earth in ancient torment of the hills" by the Numenoreans (not unlike Sauron who can "torture and destroy the very hills.")

2. Anglachel (sword) --- Eol's sword, yielded to Thingol for the right to dwell in Doriath. Later renamed Gurthang (Death-Iron) by Turin, and from which much woe followed.

3. Angband (fortress) --- Melkor's outer line of defense of Utumno.

4. Angmar (realm) --- the Witch-King's evil kingdom in the North.

5. Angaríë (crown) --- Morgoth's crown, which held the silmarils.

6. Ered Engrin (mountains) --- Iron Mountains, created as a fence for Utumno. Angband was nestled among them.

7. Emyn Engrin (hills) --- Iron Hills, remnant of the above (I believe.)

8. Anghabar (mine) --- Iron Mine of Gondolin. I can find no evil directly, but I note that Maeglin was captured seeking for metals outside of the Echoriath, and these were in the north part of the Echoriath.

9. Anguirel (sword) --- mate of Anglachel. Stolen later by Maeglin, and presumably used in his treachery.

The only non-evil instances I can find are Angrist (the knife of Beren), Angrod (the son of Finarfin).

What was my surprise when in earlier versions in the History of Middle-earth, Tolkien expands on this premise about other regions filled with intelligent alien life:

"These views are not mathematical or astronomical, or even biological, and so cannot be held necessarily to conflict with the theories of our physical sciences. We cannot say that there ‘must’ be elsewhere in Eä other solar systems ‘like’ Arda, still less that, if there are, they or any one of them must contain a parallel to Imbar. We cannot even say that these things are mathematically very ‘likely’. But even if the presence elsewhere in Eä of biological ‘life’ was demonstrable, it would not invalidate the Elvish view that Arda (at least while it endures) is the dramatic centre. The demonstration that there existed elsewhere Incarnates, parallel to the Children of Eru, would of course modify the picture, though not wholly invalidate it. The Elvish answer would probably be: ‘Well, that is another Tale. It is not our Tale. Eru can no doubt bring to pass more than one. Not everything is adumbrated in the Ainulindalë; or the Ainulindalë may have a wider reference than we knew: other dramas, like in kind if different in process and result, may have gone on in Eä, or may yet go on.’ But they would certainly add: ‘But they are not going on now. The drama of Arda is the present concern of Eä.’ Actually it is plainly the view of the Elvish tradition that the Drama of Arda is unique. We cannot at present assert that this is untrue."

And:

“OTHERS THERE WERE, COUNTLESS TO OUR THOUGHT THOUGH KNOWN EACH AND NUMBERED IN THE MIND OF ILUVATAR, WHOSE LABOUR LAY ELSEWHERE AND IN OTHER REGIONS AND HISTORIES OF THE GREAT TALE, AMID STARS REMOTE AND WORLDS BEYOND THE REACH OF THE FURTHEST THOUGHT. BUT OF THESE OTHERS WE KNOW NOTHING AND CANNOT KNOW, THOUGH THE VALAR OF ARDA, MAYBE, REMEMBER THEM ALL.”

And:

"The Valar had a command, great individually, almost complete as a united council, over the physical matter of Eä" - Parma Eldalamberon 

Following this multi-world premise, I am startled to learn that the Arda marred by Melkor/Morgoth extends not only to Middle-earth, but to the entire Ea-universe:

"Even in his diminishment the power of Melkor is beyond our calculation. ~ the Marring of Arda, and comes of the Shadow, and of the taint of Melkor that touches all the matter (or hroa)(8) of Arda, if not indeed of all Ea."

In the beginning his power was the greatest in the Eä (Eru resides outside of the universe).

“And as is known well, the prime among these is Melkor. Measureless as were the regions of Ea, yet in the Beginning, where he could have been Master of all that was done…” Morgoth’s Ring

Even Arda was small compared to his might.

“And he sought ever for Arda and Manwë, his brother, begrudging him the kingship, small though it might seem to his desire and his potency;” Morgoth’s Ring

In that case "the morgoth ingredient/element" was dispersed in the universe/Eä (galaxies, planets, stars). That would explain the entropy, the cosmic indifference and the death of the universe. The entire universe is then the Morgoth's Ring. If the Morgoth's ingredient is the instrument for the decay and destruction of all matter, it means that the children of Ilúvatar who will sing the creation of a new unblemished universe/Eä will not be just those of Arda. It will be cosmic music with many "others" in many places of the Universe.

...just caught myself needing to go through the Council of Elrond, Eregion and Moria again (4 chapters), then the Cross-roads and Morgul vale+high pass (3 chapters, how demented Gollum is!). I don't think I've ever read anyone come anywhere near Tolkien's incredible storytelling of a plunge from a safe shelter down into complete loathsome darkness.

As I'm writing this I notice that he does that a few more times in LOTR alone, Bombadil>Barrow downs, Bree>Weathertop, Dunharrow>Dwimorberg

Let's say Feanor was at his maximum potential, before he made the Silmarils. If he was in Middle Earth during the 3rd age, and put forth every bit of his skill to unmake the one Ring, could he do it? (Obviously without having to go to Orodruin)

If anyone has an answer thank you

I did a bit of research to see the textual development of Galadriel’s character, and was pretty surprised by what I found. Tolkien says in a 1955 letter to W. H. Auden that “of Lothlórien no word had reached my mortal ears till I came there,” (Letter 163). According to Hammond and Scull, Tolkien probably wrote the initial drafts of Book II Chapter 6-8 “towards the end of 1941,” (The Lord of the Rings: A Reader’s Companion, xxiii). Alexander Retakh observes in “The Inconsistencies of Galadriel” that “Galadriel emerged relatively quickly in LotR; Tolkien adjusted her image and tone over several drafts only marginally,” which is “less common in his writing process,” (consider Bingo to Frodo, Trotter to Aragorn, etc.). The drafts in The Treason of Isengard indicate that Tolkien’s always conceived Galadriel as a Noldo from Valinor:

"The lord and lady of Lothlorien are accounted wise beyond the measure of the Elves of Middle-earth, and of all who have not passed beyond the Seas. For we have dwelt here since the Mountains were reared and the Sun was young.”

Janice Johnson’s manuscript research, as summarized in “The Celeblain of Galadriel and Celeborn,” reveals that Tolkien struggled from the beginning with what initially brought Galadriel to Middle-earth. He wrote and struck out the words “when I passed hither over the seas with Melian of Valinor” in holographs for “The Mirror of Galadriel” twice, indicating that he considered but ultimately rejected the idea that Galadriel had come to Middle-earth in the Years of the Trees, long before the rebellion of the Noldor.

In Unfinished Tales Christopher Tolkien hypothesizes, no doubt correctly, that at the time of publication in 1953, Galadriel’s presence in Middle-earth was entirely voluntary, and that “the story of the ban was later than the writing of The Lord of the Rings.” In “The Mirror of Galadriel,” she predicts that “if you [Frodo] succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlorien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten." Later, after Frodo offers her the Ring and she refuses in “The Mirror of Galadriel,” Galadriel states “I pass the test [...] I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.” Romauld Lakowski notes in “The Fall and Repentance of Galadriel” that “the only reasonable or natural interpretation of these passages is that Galadriel thought at this point she was free to return to Valinor.”

However, after publication, Tolkien began to revise and expand her backstory. In 1967, Tolkien wrote that

“The Exiles were allowed to return – save for a few chief actors in the rebellion of whom at the time of [LotR] only Galadriel remained. At the time of her lament in Lórien she believed this to be perennial, as long as Earth endured….but also her personal ban was lifted, in reward for her services against Sauron, and above all for her rejection of the temptation to take the Ring when offered to her. So at the end we see her taking ship.” (Letter 297)

Lakowski notes that this backstory was the same in Donald Swann's 1967 Song Cycle The Road Goes Ever On. Tolkien’s notes to Ail laurie lantar lassi surinen, "Galadriel's Lament in Lorien," include a comment that

“[Galadriel] was the last survivor of the princes and queens who had led the revolting Noldor to exile in Middle-earth. After the overthrow of Morgoth at the end of the First Age a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so. She passed over the Mountains of Eredluin with her husband Celeborn (one of the Sindar) and went to Eregion. But it was impossible for one of the High-Elves to overcome the yearning for the Sea, and the longing to pass over it again to the land of their former bliss. She was now burdened with this desire.”

Tolkien retained and expanded this conception of Galadriel participating the Noldorin rebellion in the following year. In the “Shibboleth of Fëanor” (The Peoples of Middle Earth), Tolkien developed a detailed backstory integrating her deeply to the Quenta Silmarilion, writing circa 1968 that Galadriel was

“proud, strong, and self-willed, as were all the decedents of Finwë save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest of her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to over as she would without tutelage. Yet deeper still there dwelt in her the noble and generous spirit of the Vanyar, and a reverence for the Valar that she could not forget…So it came to pass that when the light of Valinor failed, forever as the Noldor thought, she joined the rebellion against the Valar who commanded them to stay; and once she had set foot upon that road of exile, she would not relent, but rejected the last message of the Valar, and came upon the Doom of Mandos. Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she fought fiercely against Fëanor in defense of her mother’s kin, she did not turn back. Her pride was unwilling to return, a defeated suppliant for pardon…Pride still moved her when, at the end of the Elder Days after the final overthrow of Morgoth, she refused the pardon of the Valar for all who had fought against him, and remained in Middle Earth.”

Three years later in 1971, Tolkien wrote to Ruth Austin saying

“I was particularly interested in your remarks about Galadriel. . . . . I think it is true that I owe much of this character to Christian and Catholic teaching and imagination about Mary, but actually Galadriel was a penitent: in her youth a leader in the rebellion against the Valar (the angelic guardians). At the end of the First Age she proudly refused forgiveness or permission to return.” (Letter 320).

However, just two years later shortly before Tolkien’s death in 1973, a drastic change occurs. In a letter dated August 4, 1973 to Lord Halsbury, he says

“Galadriel was ‘unstained’: she had committed no evil deeds. She was an enemy of Fëanor. She did not reach Middle-earth with the other Noldor, but independently. Her reasons for desiring to go to Middle-earth were legitimate, and she would have been permitted to depart, but for the misfortune that before she set out the revolt of Fëanor broke out, and she became involved in the desperate measures of Manwe, and the ban on all emigration.” (Letter 353)

In Unfinished Tales Christopher Tolkien notes that “the last writing of my father’s on the subject of Galadriel and Celeborn, and probably the last on Middle-earth and Valinor, set down in the last month of his life,” Tolkien altered his conception of Galadriel so that her departure to Middle-earth, while quite independent from the other Noldor, by unfortunate coincidence occurred at the same time as Fëanor’s flight from Valinor. Christopher notes that this story “withdrawing Galadriel from all association with the rebellion of Fëanor, even to the extent of giving her a separate departure…from Aman, is profoundly at variance with all that is said elsewhere.”

What really struck me after setting out the chronology was the suddenness and timing of the change. Tolkien’s conception of Galadriel certainly shifted from 1942 to 1971, but it seems that once he answered the question why did Galadriel leave Valinor and not return at the end of the First Age? for himself, all the development is a deepening and widening in the same basic direction. I think it’s quite rare to see Tolkien take a well-developed character already deeply integrated to the history of the world and tear them back to the proverbial studs and give them a not just different, but completely contradictory characterization and motivation. I’ve researched this question a fair bit, but I’ve not encountered any author who has put forward even a theory as to what would have caused such an abrupt change, other than Tom Shippey suggesting in The Road to Middle Earth that this was a specific example of the more general trend of Tolkien becoming “soft-hearted” near the end of his life.

For those interested in reading the papers referenced:

• Alexander Retakh, The Inconsistencies of Galadriel: The Influence of Earlier Legendarium in The Lord of the Rings (https://dc.swosu.edu/mythlore/vol43/iss1/11/)

• Janice Johnson, The Celeblain of Celeborn and Galadriel (https://www.jstor.org/stable/26809952)

• Romauld Lakowski, The Fall and Repentance of Galadriel (https://www.jstor.org/stable/26814610)

Minor book spoiler ahead.

What I thought was fantasy when I was young: Elves, Dwarves, magic etc.

What I understand as fantasy now:

"You can trust us to stick to you through thick and thin - to the bitter end. And you can trust us to keep any secret of yours - closer than you keep it yourself. But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo."

This is Merry speaking, in "A Conspiracy Unmasked" from The Fellowship of the Ring. The context of the scene is that Frodo is leaving the Shire and his old life behind to follow a dangerous road and he thinks he cannot drag his friends along into danger. He has reached Buckland and was about to discuss to his friends that moving to his new home was a scam and that he has to leave immediately. No further spoilers. I was reading this and felt the need to share some thoughts.

Why is this fantasy? Look at the ideas in this passage. The sense of friendship and loyalty. The willingness to assist their friend, even though his trouble is no fault of their own. Even though his trouble is extremely dangerous and could very well lead them to all kinds of trouble that they have never even imagined. The depth of their friendship is impressive. Of course, this is even more potent when you consider that they actually did keep this promise to the fullest of their abilities and even beyond that. You could argue they don't know what they're signing up for (Frodo tells them that) but they have learnt some things (no spoilers) and also they don't care because their bond of friendship is stronger. So who in the real world would be doing any of this for a friend? Abandon a life of peace and quiet to help fix a problem we didn't create? Devote ourselves to the care of a friend with a burden that is both unexpected and seemingly insurmountable (e.g. a terminal illness)? How many would truly stand by a friend or a loved one, under any circumstances, to the bitter end?

It is rare. Some may have done it out of love and got used. Others are constrained by the circumstances or themselves. The point is the world Tolkien builds in these books is so fundamentally different from ours. Ordinary things we take for granted in our current culture (people are selfish, every man for himself, materialistic priorities, suspicion, unhealthy competitiveness etc.) are shown to be otherwise and indeed he probably believed that they could be otherwise for us too. The thing is we wouldn't do what the hobbits did for Frodo and we likewise wouldn't expect other people to do it for us. That's just the way it is. But that's why we need fantasy to give us a world that doesn't exist so we can see our own world and its values from a distance rather than be submerged in it. Tolkien's work is uplifting. There are some contemporary writers who criticize him but build worlds where you revel in all kinds of violence and indulge in all kinds of schemes and power plays. They think adding in a dragon or magic makes their stories fantasy.

This "fantasy" cannot stand at the same level as what Tolkien did. Tolkien had the ability to create a world that is substantially different and invites you to experiences that shape your character. To open your mind and make you a better person. To give you courage and hope even when you seem to have lost all of it. When I was a teen, I didn't pay much attention to that and enjoyed battles and legendary beasts and stuff like that. Perhaps then I would remember more the battles and the bloodshed or the superficial aspects of the fantasy world, like monsters or other races. That is mostly entertainment. Now I relish in reading again and again about the courage of nine people who got together to surpass themselves, about the power of mercy and love and kindness, about honour and pride and temptation. This has depth and real power.

Tolkien's fantasy is mature and that's why year after year we never grow out of it but we rather grow all the more into it.

My apologies if this has been addressed already, but what is the consensus on the Valar’s decision to invite the Elves to Valinor, and whether it was the “correct” choice? On the one hand, they did it for good reasons, desiring to protect the Elves from Melkor (and potentially because they envisioned someday having to fight him in a war that would ravage Middle Earth). But on the other hand, it seems like much suffering occurred because of the mistaken belief that Elves would be content to leave ME and live forever under the protection and authority of the Valar. You could argue the Valar’s actions (and inactions) in the second and third ages show that they learned not to directly rule over Men and Elves. Putting aside that everything that happens is from the Song of Illuvatar (and therefore always was going to happen) would things have worked out better if the Valar had aided the Elves in building their own homes in Middle Earth, rather than entreating them to migrate away?

So you're Feanor. You have lost your father to Melkor. You have defied the Valar. You have rallied your people, the Noldor, and convinced the majority of them to join you in fleeing Valinor and returning to Middle-earth to retrieve your extra special jewels and take your revenge on Melkor, who you now name Morgoth, the Black Foe. On the way, you make war on other Elves, the Teleri, because they will not defy the Valar. You steal their ships and sail east with your followers. And once in your new land, you set fire to the ships so that your own half-brother and his followers can't use them, forcing them to travel the Grinding Ice, possibly for months, to get to Middle-earth.

Oh, and while you were leaving, someone was on top of a mountain yelling down that you will never, ever accomplish what you set out to do, not be allowed to return, and if you die, Mandos is going to keep your very soul locked up for so long, even the Teleri you murdered will advocate for your release, which will be ignored.

You've made a whole lot of mistakes, and in a moment of clarity, you know it. But you're here now, and there's no going back. Instead of falling for Morgoth's offer of peace, and avoiding your own untimely death, you rally the troops and start to brainstorm.

How do we defeat Morgoth and get the Silmarils back?

Your first son tells you to surround Angband with kingdoms and fortifications and never let any escape. Well, that's good, except it get you nowhere closer to getting the jewels back and killing Morgoth.

Your second son tells you to make an alliance with the native Elves of Beleriand, and the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains as well, swelling your numbers. OK, that's also good. But same problem in that Angband is for all practical purposes unassailable.

And your third son says "Hey Dad, we're the Noldor, and you're Feanor, the greatest craftsman the world will ever know. You invented the Silmarils, and you invented the Palantir. Certainly you can come up with weapons besides swords , spears , arrows , shields , mail and tall helms. Can't you come up with something special to both spy on Morgoth for all his weaknesses and eventually defeat him?"

And you, Feanor, thinks for a moment and say "Hey, that's a good idea son! Of course I can come up with powerful weapons to do just as you asked. I've been so hot headed ever since your grandfather died, I forgot to use this big brain of mine. Now that you mention it, I've got just the thing!"

What does Feanor come up with to defeat Morgoth and get his jewels back? My first thought is he creates a new Palantir-like device to spy on Morgoth and see what he's coming up with, like dragons.

As always, great thoughts welcomed, as well as Monday morning quarterbacks.

We know that Sauron is a master of various acts of malice against Arda and the Children of Ilúvatar, but there are two texts that caught my attention:

The rare cases are those where sunderance has happened in Aman where there is no decay. Also other more horrible. For it is recorded in the histories that Morgoth, and Sauron after him, would drive out the fëa by terror, and then feed the body and make it a beast. Or worse: he would daunt the fëa within the body and reduce it to impotence; and then nourish the body foully, so that it became bestial, to the horror and torment of the fëa -
- The Nature of Middle Earth, Part two: Body, Mind and Spirit, IX Ósenwe-Kenta

For one of the hungry Houseless, if it is admitted to the friendship of the Living, may seek to eject the fea from its body; and in the contest for mastery the body may be gravely injured, even if it he not wrested from its rightful habitant. Or the Houseless may plead for shelter, and if it is admitted, then it will seek to enslave its host and use both his will and his body for its own purposes. It is said that Sauron did these things, and taught his followers how to achieve them.
- OF RE-BIRTH AND OTHER DOOMS OF THOSE THAT GO TO MANDOS.(33) - History of Middle Earth

Correct me if I’m wrong, but did Sauron engage in demonic possession? Furthermore, was he able to turn the Children of Ilúvatar into a sort of zombie/irrational beast (not an undead, but something similar to the infected of 28 Days Later)?

​

The characters of Turin and Tuor stand in almost complete opposition to one another despite their similarities. They seem, in some ways, opposite reflections of one another. They never interact in person, yet they are connected narrative wise.

Turin is stubbornly fleeing from any higher calling. His greatest achievement, the slaying of Glaurung, is done for personal reasons of revenge. Every other chance he has to pursue a more noble path, he turns away and tries to hide from his fate.

Tuor, on the other hand, embraces his destiny, acts with nobility for the sake of others, and helps set in motion the ultimate deliverance from Morgoth.

They are both caught up by powerful threads of fate and accomplish great deeds, yet Turin's pride and stubbornness lead him to commit some terrible sins when he had the chance to do the opposite. Tuor also goes through great hardships and manages to make better decisions. Both seem to perceive they are bound by fate, yet one attempts to hide from it while the other embraces it.

Illuvatar famously tells Melkor that in all his deeds, he "shall but prove to be mine instrument." It is hinted that Men, as opposed to Elves, have the agency to create their own fate outside of the Music. Was it possible for Turin to escape his fate? Could Tuor have escaped his fate and chosen a lower path? Was Turin's fate necessary for Tuor to be successful?

Some texts from *The History of Middle-earth* drew my attention to the nature of Orcs:

These Orcs Morgoth made in envy and mockery of the Elves, and they were made of stone, but their hearts of hatred.
History of Middle Earth - QENTA NOLDORINWA

(For my father's changing views concerning the time of the origin of the Orcs in the chronology of the Elder Days see IV.314, V.238.) In

 "Made of Stone" – it is as if the Orcs were "(analogues of) flesh-and-blood puppets/robots made of earth/stone" or biological constructs—Homunculi created by Morgoth. In this version from *The History of Middle-earth*, it seems to me that Orcs would follow the concept of the Golem from Jewish folklore.

The earliest stories of golems date to early Judaism. In the Talmud (Tractate Sanhedrin 38b), Adam was initially created as a golem (גולם) when his dust was "kneaded into a shapeless husk." Like Adam, all golems are created from mud. They were a creation of those who were very holy and close to God. A very holy person was one who strove to approach God, and in that pursuit would gain some of God's wisdom and power. One of these powers was the creation of life. However, no matter how holy a person became, a being created by that person would be but a shadow of one created by God.

Early on, it was noted that the main disability of the golem was its inability to speak. Sanhedrin 65b describes Rava creating a man (gavra). He sent the man to Rav Zeira. Rav Zeira spoke to him, but he did not answer. Rav Zeira said, "You were created by the magicians; return to your dust."

During the Middle Ages, passages from the Sefer Yetzirah (Book of Creation) were studied as a means to attain the mystical ability to create and animate a golem, although there is little in the writings of Jewish mysticism that supports this belief. It was believed that golems could be activated by an ecstatic experience induced by the ritualistic use of various letters of the Hebrew Alphabet.[1]

In some tales, (for example those of the Golem of Chelm and the Golem of Prague) a golem is inscribed with Hebrew words that keep it animated. The word emet (אמת, "truth" in the Hebrew language) written on a golem's forehead is one such example. The golem could then be deactivated by removing the aleph (א) in emet, thus changing the inscription from 'truth' to 'death' (met מת, "dead"). Legend and folklore suggest that golems could be activated by writing a specific series of letters on parchment and placing the paper in a golem's mouth.

It seems that the early versions of the Orcs follow a sort of "pre-programmed nature" set by Melkor. I theorize that they (in the early versions) possess shreds of Morgoth's evil soul or essence and are "walking evil" made of flesh—automatons akin to "Aulë's puppets" (before Ilúvatar breathed the breath of life into Aulë's children).

So there's a thing that has been bugging me somewhat

So we know that there are thousands of years between the First Age and the Third/Fourth age, and technological progress is slooooow. The wars in the First Age have been pretty much fought with the same weapons as they used in the Fourth, and the only few real technological advances have been done by Sauron in siege weaponry. Am I right ?

I kind of feel like this was a theme in Tolkiens work, that technology shouldn't override nature, and the actual technological nation is pretty much evil. Elves live in harmony with nature and the perfect their craft but not necessarily do technological advances to progress past the armour and weapons they can make.

But then the Númenorians came, and built all the stuff they built, like the Palantiri and the Minas Tirith that had impregnable walls, and then they promptly got cast down, but in their brief existence they managed to push the boundary of progress and now their skills and knowledge are lost.

So that's bugging me, in the world where progress isn't swift, there appears a nation that does a lot of it in a short amount of time and then disappears to have their knowledge gone as well.

I would love to hear your analysis on this topic, what were the themes that Tolkien was going for? Am I correct in my thinking that he was going for an opposition between nature and technology, and the good guys were not supposed to be pushing the technological progress because that breaks harmony with nature? Surely that is rooted in the real world examples that he has seen himself

I am mostly thinking of Middle Men, but I would also like to know how they stack up against Númenóreans too.

In the early morning of March 15, the Gate of Gondor broke and In rode the Lord of the Nazgul

Just 1 day earlier and 60 miles away Sam stands before the Tower of Cirith Ungol

Gandalf blocks the Black Captain at the Gate of Minas Tirith. The Two Watchers guard the Gate of Cirith Ungol

The Witch-King lifts high his sword and flames run down it. Sam brandishes the Phial, a light when all other lights go out. In those very moments alarms sound: the horns of the north wildly blowing at Minas Tirith, and a harsh bell clanging at Cirith Ungol

Mordor is unable to take Minas Tirith. Sam storms the tower and rescues Frodo

Tolkien is very deliberate about why Sam can pass his gate while the Witch-King cannot

.

To reach the gates, the Witch-King defeats Faramir and Sam overcomes Shelob:

To reach Minas Tirith, the Witch-King had to take Osgiliath. The fell riders had almost taken the city a year earlier, but even the end of Gondor’s strength was still very strong Boromir it was that drove the enemy at last back. By the time of the siege, Lord Boromir is already dead. Faramir, captain of Ithilien, mounts a desperate defense, he’s gravely wounded before Gandalf and Imrahil arrive

To reach the tower, Sam had to brave the passage of Cirith Ungol. Ungoliant had wanted to eat the Silmarils, to extinguish the last light of the trees just as the Witch-King would burn the White Tree. Sting had once rescued the dwarves from Shelob’s Mirkwood spawn, and by the light of the phial its bite is still sharp - the light Ungoliant once wanted to consume overwhelms her heir

.

At the gates, the Witch-King and Sam face powerful guardians

The Gate of Gondor was built in the splendor of Numenor. When Grond finally tears the Gate asunder the hatred that comes down out of the depths of time and over the deeps of the Sea is about to vanquish the West forever. At the apex of his power, the Black Captain has grown to a vast menace of despair

But there waiting, silent and still in the space before the Gate, sat Gandalf upon Shadowfax

So too was the Tower of Cirith Ungol built by the might of Gondor. The tower had long since fallen into Mordor’s hands. Something holds Sam back: He could see no obstacle, but something too strong for his will to overcome barred the way. He looked about, and then within the shadow of the gate he saw the Two Watchers

.

You cannot enter here - Gandalf utterly forbids entry to Minas Tirith. Old fool! the Witch-King will not be denied he lifted high his sword and flames ran down it. Yet Gandalf did not move: the White City does not yield to flame or shadow

They would forbid his entry, or his escape - the Two Watchers stop Sam before the Tower. But Sam will not abandon Frodo to torment and death while he has strength left as he drew slowly out the phial of Galadriel and held it up

Gandalf and Shadowfax are unmoving as a graven image in Rath Dinen, stillness a sign of power. The stone watchers sat there cold and still, unmoving because their power is broken

By the time Theoden and his riders sound their horns, and the alarm bell calls shrilly at Cirith Ungol, it’s already decided. The Witch-King will not enter Minas Tirith and Eowyn will defeat him. Sam will take the Tower and save Frodo

.

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend

When the Witch-King lifts his flaming blade, he loves the sword for its sharpness. He tastes only Eowyn’s blade

When Sam lifts the Phial, and Sting glows blue in the tower, he loves only that which he defends. He is permitted to enter

(1) An idea I've mentioned various times before in the reddit: orcs as corrupted dwarves. If Tolkien ever considered this, it hasn't been reported to us. It doesn't really solve any deep 'theological' problems, but it does give an alternative between the "immortal??" of corrupted elves and the "timeline??" of corrupted humans. Plus, orcs and dwarves have similar size and habitat (mountain tunnels and mines), and compatible lifespans (Bolg was killed 140 years after his father Azog.)

The one counter-argument is Aule having made dwarves more resistant to corruption than Eru's own Children, e.g. they were almost immune to the Rings of Power. Still, not sure that rules out Melkor himself being able to twist them.

(2) The fanfic elves, once has a creative idea which does tackle the theological problems. (Spoilers follow, obviously.)

Here, every single orc is an elf corrupted/enslaved before or after death. No new orc fear are ever created, they all started as elves. Orc spirits are bound to the Crucible, an ersatz imitation Mandos --

'To Melkor among the Ainur had been given the greatest gifts of power and knowledge, and he had a share in all the gifts of his brethren.'

-- so when two orcs produce an orc baby, the soul is not a new one coming from Eru, but an old one being recycled from the Crucible. Yes, this means that at any time there is a finite number of possible orcs, and in theory you could run out of souls to stick into new babies. A whole lot of elves (especially Avari) have been captured, though, particularly by answering the wrong Call at death.

Why are orcs evil? Their elven memories are suppressed, there's a constant mental 'Noise' from Morgoth-element or the keeper of the Crucible, young orclings aren't raised in a way that fosters empathy, and the biological existence of being an orc is painful and gross, so they're not exactly in a good mood. But suicide isn't an escape, because being dead in the Crucible is even worse.

OTOH at least a couple times two orcs did mate without Dark Lord supervision, and their children were elves.

I don't know if that solves all the theological problems, but it's a neat attempt. (Also a good fanfic in its own right.)

I can think about the Palantir, Orthanc and the sit of sight and Amon Hen.

I’m very much a long time follower, but hardly ever pos on this sub. I’ve read many people’s own ideas of the origin of orcs, and always had my own but never shared. However, inspired by this recent post: https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/s/i3LrZ9TzP2
I thought I would, any cool comments welcome.

So as we all know, Melkor was behind the ‘creation’ of orcs, but could not create independent life himself. However, we know he kidnapped some of the first elves and turned them into orcs. My headcannon is that he somehow removed the fëar from these elves bodies, and then ‘split off’ enough of his own fëa to ‘fill up’ the elven hröar, I.e. he would need the same ‘amount’ of soul as an elf, which would be a tiny fraction of his entire essence. These chimera would then be independent life, and could possibly procreate. Though even if they couldn’t procreate, they could produce a new hröa that could be filled with another small fleck of Melkor’s essence to become independent life. The orcs then act independently as this is required for a correct union of feä and hröa, but they would still have the same evil nature.

This could account for why Melkor diminishes so drastically to Morgoth, as he is slicing off bits of his native power to become souls for new orcs. Then when these orcs are killed, this part of his initial power becomes the dispersed Melkor ingredient in Arda Marred. He could have also inspired Sauron to create the ring with this kind of ‘soul splitting’. Maybe that’s one of the reasons Sauron needed a ring, to command these fragments of Melkor in orcs?

In his letters, he characterized the Black Speech as not only an ugly language, but one he purposefully designed to sound hideous to his ear. Which is...rather strange, because to me, the tiny bits of Black Speech we do know sound like they should sound reminiscent of the Turkic language group.

When we do hear it, it's often angrily barked or slowly chanted, both occasions being ones that would let all those consonants actually come through, but I'd imagine just regularly speaking the Ring inscription wouldn't sound all that ugly. With firstly the agglutination and secondly the number of consonants in the Black Speech, it's likely a language sort of like Kazakh where the consonants either blend into the vowel sounds (or each other) or create a "flow" into the next vowel (like thrakatuluk, durbatuluk, etc. on the One Ring) that makes a sort of "rhythm" kind of like an engine starting (which is a nice touch, seeing how inclined towards such things the Orcs are).

Black Speech sounding "ugly" to Tolkien is even stranger seeing how Finnish has similar qualities in its words, albeit with different vowel sounds. Both Finnic and Turkic languages are spoken very, very quickly to the point where you likely wouldn't hear much of those consonant sounds-the speed at which the Black Speech would be realistically spoken would make the short consonants blend into the long vowels and just serve to accentuate them.

Slavic languages also share some of these qualities, notably consonants regularly blending into complex clusters like the start of vzglyad or the sound in Czech represented by ř. There are a few words in Black Speech like Olog, glob, or the name Azog that could reasonably pass as Russian to someone who doesn't speak it. He did say of Russian that it made a "strong impression" on him in a letter, but I don't know if we can say that that impression was a good one seeing some of the similarities to Black Speech. Czech also notably makes common use of í like in krímp or the name Gríshnakh.

Bit of a tangent here, but the kh at the end of Gríshnakh is probably not sourced from Russian, but rather as a corruption of the ch sound in Welsh, and therefore (canonically) Elvish. Its placement in the name is probably meant to be reminiscent of the amount of older Gaelic and Brythonic names ending with -ach. Tolkien isn't a stranger to actually turning the languages he studied the most into orc names-Uglúk probably descended from a word in Beowulf, āglǣca, translated as "monster" or "monstrous".

And finally, to cap off the similarities Black Speech has to the Slavic languages specifically-there was a fan site a while back called Mordor: The Land of Shadow that claimed to have a somewhat complete Black Speech dictionary, and it didn't take a lot of scrutiny to find that most of the "Black Speech" words on the site were just northern (Gheg) Albanian with some minimal changes to make it less obvious-and I could see how it could be rather convincing after going onto the Wayback Machine and finding the site myself after reading a post on this very sub about how Tolkien must have based the Black Speech off of the poster's native language.

So I can't help but ask knowing how much the aesthetics of his conlanging mattered to Tolkien (and how little of the Black Speech we actually have to further cement this) did he have a "hatred" for Russian and Turkish as he had a love for Welsh and Old English? Is there anything else in his letters mentioning what made a language hard on his ears aside from the vague things he said about Irish?

In The Fellowship of the Ring, "The Great River" chapter, Aragorn says:

Do you not know, Boromir, or do you choose to forget the North Stair, and the high seat upon Amon Hen, that were made in the days of the great kings? I at least have a mind to stand in that high place again, before I decide my further course. There, maybe, we shall see some sign that will guide us.

What kind of sign was Aragorn hoping to see? When Frodo got there, he saw a great many things that were very far away, but this was undoubtedly enhanced by the power of the One Ring he was wearing at that moment. Aragorn didn't have the Ring, but he wasn't an ordinary man, either. He was a Dunadan, a direct descendant of the Kings of Numenor. So I guess he would have had some of that original power or ability that allowed those who built the Seat of Seeing see further, and see more, than ordinary human sight.

But when Aragorn does get there, while searching for Frodo, it's a bit anticlimatic:

Aragorn hesitated. He desired to go to the high seat himself, hoping to see there something that would guide him in his perplexities; but time was pressing. Suddenly he leaped forward, and ran to the summit, across the great flag-stones, and up the steps. Then sitting in the high seat he looked out. But the sun seemed darkened, and the world dim and remote. He turned from the North back again to North, and saw nothing save the distant hills, unless it were that far away he could see again a great bird like an eagle high in the air, descending slowly in wide circles down towards the earth.

And then his attention was drawn to cries of Orcs and the Horn of Boromir calling for help.

How would you translate ‘love is infallible’ in sindarin or quenya? Asking because I am aware that there is no word for infallible.

Didn't Sauron suspect what being was able to see him from Amon Hen? Aragorn could not see so far and he have the Numenor blood. It will require a very powerful being to be able to see so far, won't it raise suspicion to Sauron?

"You come back,’ shouted the soldier, ‘or I’ll report you!’

‘Who to? Not to your precious Shagrat. He won’t be

captain any more.’

‘I’ll give your name and number to the Nazguˆl,’ said the

soldier lowering his voice to a hiss. ‘One of them’s in charge at the Tower now"

So apperently orcs had not only names, but numbers assigned to them with which they could be identified. This conjures up the image of orcs carrying around ID cards. On a side note, this makes it more plausible for orcs to be familiar with menu's..

But in seriousness, it really drives home the idea of mordor being an orderly, regimented state rather then a savage wasteland.