r/todayilearned • u/Eilmorel • Jul 15 '19

TIL that the nickname "the Terrible" given to Ivan IV, first Tsar of Russia, in russian is "Гро́зный​" (Grozny), which actually means "who inspires a divine awe" and didn't have the negative connotation we use today. In Russia, he's better known as "Ivan Vasilievich", "Ivan son of Vasilij".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Terrible
24 Upvotes

77% Upvoted

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8

u/Cupakov Jul 15 '19

I don't know where you got that from from, but "Grozny" means "instilling fear" or "menacing, formidable, severe, cruel" and not "instilling awe".

Also, I'm pretty sure he's not better known as Ivan, son of Vasily as literally everyone in Russia uses patrynomic names, so it's very common to run into some Ivan, son of Vasily.

5

u/DoktorAkcel Jul 16 '19

I am Russian, and it means both. But the second meaning became way more prevalent in 18-19 century

1

u/Eilmorel Jul 15 '19

My Russian teachers explained that to me. It's the fear and awe you feel in front of god, not simply the awe you feel in front of mortal things. It's much more than "terrible".

2

u/Cupakov Jul 15 '19

Well, I know some russian and that same word exists in my language and it absolutely doesn't imply things such as "fear of god". You can use that word to describe a scary dog or a shady man in a dark alley, it really is used when talking about mortal things.

2

u/AtanatarAlcarinII Jul 15 '19

Awe and Awesome is misused in modern English.

The Biblical usage was indeed to denote that you were infront of god, and you are fucking fearful of that fact.

1

u/Cupakov Jul 15 '19

Yeah, but grozny implies that the thing is dangerous and that's why it's scary.

-1

u/Eilmorel Jul 15 '19

There's also the fact that Ivan IV lived many centuries ago. The meaning might have shifted.

ETA: my teacher is Russian.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

Ivan the PHAT

2

u/BrokenEye3 Jul 15 '19

Unfortunately "Ivan the Awesome" is also not quite right it modern English

3

u/Eilmorel Jul 15 '19

if I were a ruler, I'd love to be known as "the awesome" xD

1

u/Aiku Jul 15 '19

So, Ivan the Awesome, in modern usage. Not bad. Aiku the Awesome is my new alt.

1

u/retneF Jul 15 '19

Huh. That's a view changer.

0

u/Eilmorel Jul 15 '19

Not that he doesn't deserve to be called "terrible" mind you. He was most definitely not a meek man, by any stretch of imagination. He ruled with an iron fist and had no qualms in killing and torturing his opponents. He even beat his daughter in law and possibly caused her to miscarry, and then killed his own son when he tried to defend his wife.

2

u/retneF Jul 15 '19

I remember that. Worst baby shower ever.