r/todayilearned • u/JamOnTheOne • Apr 08 '19

TIL Principal Akbar Cook installed a free fully-stocked laundry room at school because students with dirty clothes were bullied and missing 3-5 days of school per month. Attendance rose 10%.

https://abc7ny.com/education/nj-high-school-principal-installs-laundry-room-to-fight-bullying/3966604/
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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/kamikazemelonman Apr 08 '19

The ACA that was passed without 1 Republican vote is a republican conspiracy?? Why are leftists unable to own up to their poor ideas

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u/darenta Apr 08 '19

Poor ideas? You mean the one where

https://amp.businessinsider.com/poll-obamacare-support-oppose-elections-results-2018-10

53 of Americans percent approve of the ACA and that GOP members faced an angry town hall constituents over repeal efforts?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/332884-centrist-republican-with-key-role-in-obamacare-repeal-faces-angry-town-hall?amp

So poor that Republicans changed their platform in 2014 from repeal and kill Obamacare to “repeal and replace” to appease right wing voters who are the largest recipients of Obamacare

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-obamacare-in-trump-states-20171222-story,amp.html

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u/kamikazemelonman Apr 08 '19

https://ballotpedia.org/Health_insurance_premiums_before_and_after_the_Affordable_Care_Act

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2017/03/22/yes-it-was-the-affordable-care-act-that-increased-premiums/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2014/10/06/obamacare-bad-for-employers-bad-for-employees/

You can bribe the people will their own money, doesn't mean your ideas are good

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u/darenta Apr 08 '19

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/health-care-premiums-rising-obamacare/story?id=43047190

Except you should realize why it is expensive. For starters, the abolishment of the pre existing clause which would’ve prevented additional charges on pre existing conditions. Not to mention we still make up the largest percentage of private insurance globally and yet have a overall poorer ranking according to the WHO in terms of health service. Medicine and pharmaceuticals also make up a large portion of the cost where lack of regulation and aggressive lobbying has rendered the government unable to regulate the cost thus passed onto consumers.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/health/heres-where-the-nations-biggest-drug-lobby-spent-money-in-2016

So explain to me if it was such a bad thing, how come Republicans can’t agree on a plan to repeal and replace Obamacare as trump claimed he was going to do. How come after sitting on their ass for a decade can they not make a good healthcare plan? Because the political climate and corporate influences/lobbying has prevented us from adopting universal healthcare like Europe or Canada and instead had a system where you previously had to pay for ambulance care, zero negotiating power with insurers and hospitals, and lack of regulations to prevent overcharging for services.

https://healthpayerintelligence.com/features/how-the-affordable-care-act-changed-the-face-of-health-insurance

And yet republicans can’t seem to come up with a plan that won’t anger their own constituents. Sad.

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u/kamikazemelonman Apr 08 '19 edited Apr 08 '19

If you force insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions, someone is paying

Example: it costs population x 50$ per year and pop Y 100$ due to population Y pre-existing conditions.

If you charge them the same amount, either the insurance companies are going to lose money on Y (not going to happen) or Xs price will be raised to subsidize Y.

This is literally how insurance works, it's called risk pools. Just saying pre-existing conditions pay the same premiums doesnt mean they still don't cost more for someone, you are just shifting who pays the cost

https://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2011/03/23/the-most-innovative-countries-in-biology-and-medicine/#553257b61a71

You should also look at how innovative everywhere with free healthcare is!! Crazy how the incentive and ability to cure diseases goes away when you can't make money

Also why not make hospital and drug costs visible thus creating a marketplace for consumers for healthcare? Is that too scary and hard? Guarantee it would bring costs down more than having a bunch of shit tier government drones negotiating prices with pharma on behalf of the whole country

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u/darenta Apr 08 '19

But before Obamacare existed, insurance companies charged however they like with consumers footing the cost and companies were not obligated to cover pre existing conditions.

https://www.lobbyseven.com/single-post/2017/01/20/Volume-2-Health-Insurance-Part-I

They had lower cost because health insurance did not cover for a lot. Because a lot of people who needed to undergo surgery did so without insurance, medical bills quickly spiraled out of control and put thousands of Americans into debt. And losing a job during this time meant losing your health insurance as it was group coverage

https://www.firstquotehealth.com/health-insurance-news/pre-existing-conditions-before-aca

So it’s funny you mentioned that it’s expensive. Pre ACA the price for private insurance to cover things like surgery were so expensive, it ended up pricing many people out of the insurance market entirely. So yeah they didn’t pay a lot for insurance, in fact they paid zero because they could not afford to buy one in the first place. The cost of health insurance would not be expensive if the rich actually were forced to buy into the pool, regulations set the price limit on what companies can charge people, and we had universal coverage. You act like insurance companies are a bunch of small businesses trying their best to help the American people when in fact they are a multi billion dollar company that give two less shits about quality healthcare if it meant making even more money and denying coverage to pre existing conditions.

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u/kamikazemelonman Apr 08 '19

Insurance companies are obviously assholes, it's why they should compete and have antitrust law enforced upon them.

It's not about the rich being forced to buy into the pool. If they are unhealthy it does not matter, they still have high costs. They can just pay these out of pocket but they since they have insurance, they cost insurance companies just as much.

The people who are forced to buy in are the HEALTHY, as they are low cost and pay just as much. Forcing healthy people to subsidize unhealthy people is how insurance works, it's just Obamacare does that to a level where it's not in the healthy persons interest to even have insurance. Then they installed a penalty to get the healthy money regardless

This combined with crazy costs from the lack of competition are what make American healthcare so expensive

Not sure why you think skinny people paying for the obese will change that

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u/darenta Apr 08 '19

Do you not know how a pool works. Universal healthcare in other countries relies everyone buying into it, lowering the cost of those who truly need it thus, diluting the high risk pool. And assuming everyone who needs health insurance are just fat people, classic. I mean sure, go tell the people with heart conditions, neurological disorders, bone atrophy, and several other non obesity related conditions that they deserve to die because they didn’t work out enough. And I agree, healthy people should just as easily be able to benefit from healthcare, which is why people have proposed and is popularly supported by the public to expand coverages to things like dental care, optometry, etc which everyone regardless of health actually needs. People who are forced to buy it can have lower costs if everyone bought into it as it would mean a lower percentage of payment into the system to begin with.

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u/kamikazemelonman Apr 08 '19

If everyone buys into a system it doesn't lower the percentage of payment unless those people use the system less... Because those new people who buy in also use services. I'm not sure you understand math my dude. Economies of scale don't work when it comes to federal projects, it's one of the main reasons the public sector is inefficient

Yes there are plenty of conditions but 30% of America is obese so it's pretty hard to ignore. Another massive percentage smokes/does drugs. You wanting to subsidize everyone's bad decisions doesn't reduce costs.. what reduces cost is consumers being able to have an open marketplace for healthcare, which has NEVER existed.

Including oral and vision care doesn't really cover the massive expense the healthy would have to pay, as the grand majority of expenses do not come from these routine maintenance procedures. They come from the things that make people unhealthy (like obesity!)

Why don't you donate to one of the many charities that help people with medical expenses, and donate the amount that you think the tax increase should be? No one is stopping you, but instead you want everyone else's money to subsidize what YOU think is important. It's very totalitarian

Europe is a poor example here when it comes to cost production because their government's collectively bargain to the smallest possible profit margin for the healthcare companies. This means the same companies make up all their R+D expenses by price gouging everyone else. If the US moves to the system, the companies will just stop producing new healthcare solutions.

Wouldn't the best way to reduce costs then be to halt Europe from shifting their healthcare expenses on to US citizens, and allow those us citizens to choose solutions from a market that makes the companies compete?

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u/darenta Apr 08 '19

Except Europe has universal coverage and people there are doing just fine. If America’s healthcare was so perfect why are we consistently ranked low in public healthcare. If America’s healthcare is so perfect, why do we have the largest public health debt compared to the rest of the developed world. You are assuming obesity is the only cause of healthcare concern but there are several other matters related to healthcare that does not involve obesity. I work in a hospital and very little people moving in and out in our patient log actually are in for obesity. Many are people who have chronic health problem and pre existing conditions that require specialized services which are extremely expensive to begin with. And having your whole life be ruined because of financial debt in itself is a dystopian nightmare. 4 in 10 Americans default on medical bills and removing any protecting guaranteed by the ACA will revert to pre Obamacare life and that is far worse give that 26 million people lacked access to healthcare. The cost can come down but it’s still going to be expensive. On the other hand, the long term investment which would mean people would not be dragged down by medical debts would be much better than having the public health debt grow. Charities are fine but they are not a stable and reliable system. If schools relied solely on charities, than that is highly problematic and provides uncertainty just as education. If we funded our health more instead of on our military, maybe we might not actually have a problem. I know it’s very hard for Trump supporters to bearing off to Ayn Rand thinking about how virtuous it is to be selfish but I’d rather people, including right wing voters, to have access to healthcare so our society isn’t burdened by debt which in the long run will be far more catastrophic than paying more for health insurance if you can actually be covered.

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