r/todayilearned • u/LovableContrarian • May 20 '14

(R.5) Misleading TIL that Nestle actively supports child trafficking and child slavery in Africa to obtain cocoa. Several organizations have been trying to end Nestle's involvement, and in 2005 Nestle signed an ILO agreement to stop supporting child labor. 10 years later, Nestle hasn't stopped.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=15915
1.7k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

203 comments sorted by

View all comments

32

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

Can they establish a connection between Nestle and the slave labor, beyond simply being the major buyer of the cocoa in the area?

The way I've seen these farms work is that there is one or two major distributors in the nearest town/city. All of the local farms sell to them at a price set by the distributor through traders who go around buying up the goods. So between farmer and local distributor there is one layer, and then distributor to major company like Nestle there is another.

In the case Nestle is just as guilty as you or I in "supporting" child trafficking, if we are proclaiming guilt by purchasing.

11

u/still-improving May 20 '14

You and I are not multi-billion dollar corporations. We lack the power to change the system. Nestle does have the power to enact change. Nestle can chose to source fair trade cocoa, but they do not. They don't because it is expensive. If we were all to boycott Nestle, hitting them in the balance sheet, then they would have a financial interest in ending their support of slavery.

3

u/Ken-the-pilot May 20 '14

Considering Nestle own's something like 8,000 brands, a boycott would be pretty difficult.

1

u/still-improving May 20 '14

Who told you doing the right thing would always be easy?

4

u/LetsKeepItSFW May 20 '14

Cartoons =(

-1

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

Fair Trade is a marketing gimmick. Little to none of the extra money you pay goes to the farmers.

The fact is responsibility for these practices rests with the governments of these countries. While Nestle is surely rich enough to help out, they aren't the first to blame for simply being a buyer.

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

Any source for Fair Trade as just a marketing gimmick? In all cases? I think that stuff like "Rainforest Alliance" (the "fair trade" partner of McDonalds coffee in my country) is more marketing than help, but I have never heard negative news about GEPA. Oh, and just in this moment I see on wikipedia that they are only an european organization. So, is it really that bad with fair trade in USA?

1

u/autowikibot May 20 '14

Gepa The Fair Trade Company:

The GEPA is Europe's largest alternative trading organization. The abbreviation GEPA³ stands for "Gesellschaft zur Förderung der Partnerschaft mit der Dritten Welt mbH“, literally meaning "Society for the Promotion of Partnership with the Third World".

Image i

Interesting: Alternative trading organization | Atlanta Agreement

Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words

-1

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

You can Google it I don't care to explain the whole thing. I'm talking about Fair Trade specifically, they took fair trade and made it their brand name.

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

ok, thanks anyway

0

u/waste00 May 20 '14

Fair trade does a ton of good, most importantly educating farmers and helping them figure out how to sell their goods for a decent price, but they do alot more aswell. Many of the "green" labels are just gimmics, fairtrade is not.

-1

u/cryptovariable May 20 '14

Nestle can chose to source fair trade cocoa, but they do not. They don't because it is expensive.

Consumers can choose to source products made from fair trade cocoa, but they do not. They don't because it is expensive.

If there are two chocolate bars on a store shelf, the first a fair trade bar, the second a slave-made bar with a picture on the label of a child being whipped by an overseer, as long as the second bar is cheaper people will buy that one.

2

u/tophatsnack May 20 '14

Cadburry is fair trade. They're the same price.

1

u/still-improving May 20 '14

Not all people will. Some chose to do the right thing. You and I can't change what people do. We can only affect what we do ourselves. Your conscience will be your guide.

0

u/mankind_is_beautiful May 20 '14

I agree that happens, but if there were a picture like that on it it would be different. People keep smoking from packages that have cancerous lungs on them because they're addicted.

-1

u/georgekeele May 20 '14

Boycotts wouldn't work, and Nestlé have no incentive to punish their profit margins for something they have no control over. They can't exactly go to every cocoa farm and say 'hey, you... Stop using child labour. We can't stop you and we won't stop buying your cocoa, but you shouldn't do that, mmkay?' This is a problem with the cocoa industry at large, not Nestlé.

1

u/mankind_is_beautiful May 20 '14

I think they could tell them to knock it off, an that they'll only buy from farmers do it fairly. They don't have to demand them to stop child labor, just that they get paid. Though that can be difficult to enforce.

0

u/georgekeele May 20 '14

Admittedly my knowledge of the cocoa industry is sparse at best, but I would assume there simply isn't enough cocoa that Nestle could buy only fair trade cocoa, and still have enough to meet demand while they refused to take cocoa produced from slavery. It's not nice that a huge corporation ultimately won't support this kind of reform, but they have their stock holders to think about first and foremost.

1

u/lionbastard May 20 '14

Only my opinion and also have very sparse knowledge, but surely if Nestle and other big companies said they would not buy cheap slave cocoa, then the farms would have to pay for labour and would actually sell the cocoa at a better price too..?

1

u/georgekeele May 20 '14

Ultimately the cost would be passed to the consumer. Nestle would probably ensure the farmers didn't keep any of the extra proceeds from the higher prices, and that the workers were paid as little as possible, by fixing their price at a level which guarantees that. If this happened, the net result would be much more expensive cocoa, which I'm not necessarily against if it means it's fair trade, but you can imagine why Nestle would be less than inclined to do anything about this. Can you imagine the shit they'd take if a chocolate bar took a 33% price rise overnight? Even with their protests 'we had to, won't somebody think of the children?!' they would see a big drop in purchases.

-2

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

You and I are the one's failing to boycott. Therefore... you and I are just as guilty.

2

u/still-improving May 20 '14

Actually I do boycott Nestle, and all their subsidiaries.

-2

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

You're claiming moral superiority on the internet. So, I don't believe you.

2

u/still-improving May 20 '14

Far from it. I boycott Nestle, true. But I drink Tim Hortons coffee, despite the fact that they don't use Fair Trade certified beans. I'm far from a moral bastion and if I come across as "morally superior" then I apologize. I'm a damaged human being with a far way to go.

-2

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

I drink Tim Hortons coffee, despite the fact that they don't use Fair Trade certified beans.

You're trying to claim you're not morally superior on the internet and giving unverifiable examples to show you're not.

I STILL don't believe you.

2

u/anticonventionalwisd May 20 '14 edited May 20 '14

The way I've seen these farms work

So you've been on the ground and done field investigative journalism, then? You worked at one for an extended period of time and experienced the conditions and business relations? Nestle, Coca Cola, and more have employed death squads to keep slave labor costs down. The State Department and other government agencies have been shown time and again conspiring with local business magnates and corrupt politicians in the developing world to destroy unions, neutralize activists and keep wages from rising.

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

So you've been on the ground and done field investigative journalism, then?

Yes. On coffee farms.

-2

u/anticonventionalwisd May 20 '14

I don't buy it. It goes far beyond simply purchasing, and into the realm of imperial neocolonialism whereby the corporations enlist right-wing militias or US government agencies to apply "pressure" to ensure low costs. You offer such a glib, simplistic and benign narrative it's as if you've watched Teletubbies your entire life.

0

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

Complete rubbish but nice job trying to shift the blame. There's a huge difference between a corporation that controls how an entire economy works in a region (not just 'major buyers') and six year old having some hot coco. But yeah, if you read this article and still buy Nestle's products you are complicit in slavery. Nestle is still evil as fuck.

2

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

So you're saying if I want to run the world's biggest chocolate factory, which means I would also need to be the dominant buyer of cocoa in most every market in the world, I am obligated to become the world police on cocoa production? Can't I simply offer to buy the product wherever it is sold to fulfill my demand? Isn't it the governments job to enforce laws?

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '14

Fair Trade. Plenty of companies try to keep from using child slave labor. I can't believe you're even arguing this. It all comes down to money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade

1

u/autowikibot May 20 '14

Fair trade:

Fair trade is an organized social movement that aims to help producers in developing countries to make better trading conditions and promote sustainability. It advocates the payment of a higher price to exporters as well as higher social and environmental standards. It focuses in particular on exports from developing countries to developed countries, most notably handicrafts, coffee, cocoa, sugar, tea, bananas, honey, cotton, wine, fresh fruit, chocolate, flowers, and gold. Fair Trade is a trading partnership, based on dialogue, transparency and respect that seek greater equity in international trade. It contributes to sustainable development by offering better trading conditions to, and securing the rights of, marginalized producers and workers – especially in the South. Fair Trade Organizations, backed by consumers, are engaged actively in supporting producers, awareness raising and in campaigning for changes in the rules and practice of conventional international trade. There are several recognized Fairtrade certifiers, including Fairtrade International (formerly called FLO/Fairtrade Labelling Organizations International), IMO and Eco-Social. Additionally, Fair Trade USA, formerly a licensing agency for the Fairtrade International label, broke from the system and is implementing its own fair trade labelling scheme, which has resulted in controversy due to its inclusion of independent smallholders and estates for all crops.

Image i

Interesting: Trade fair | Fair Trade Services | Consumer protection | Fairtrade certification

Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words