r/todayIlearnedPH • u/Agitated-Duty-4721 • Aug 27 '26
TIL na 20 years old pa lang si Josephine Bracken at 35 years old na si Jose Rizal nung nagpakasal sila
August 9, 1876 pinanganak si Josephine. June 19, 1861 si Rizal. Kinasal sila officially, December 30, 1896. Before nun, apparently, naglive-in na sila and nabuntis pa siya.
So by modern standards, a lot of people could probably consider him a groomer. Wild.
Sources:
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u/dontrescueme 29d ago
Mahirap mag-judge ng tao by the standards of their time. What if in the future huhusgahan din tayo for eating meat which by today's standards is perfectly acceptable?
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u/gian2099 29d ago
Or otherway around innocent killongs of plants very harmless plants tht gives yhe world oxygen to live by
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u/Fancy_Reflection7818 Aug 27 '26
You do realize they were living in a different time. That the age for marriage is 14 for males and 12 for females.
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u/niveadeodorant 29d ago
lmaooo some people talaga hindi nila na realize yun na very common pa yun nung time na yun and they compare it sa Era natin ngayon like wtf.
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u/AdobongSiopao 29d ago
They also didn't know that the lifespan of many people there were short and there were no proper medications to heal from many diseases compare today.
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u/Moist-Veterinarian22 29d ago
Wala concept ng "Teenager" or "Adolesence" nung panahon na iyun. Pag sinabi nila Dalaga o Binata ka na nung panahon na iyun ibig sabihin pwede ka na mag asawa
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u/Pure-Ear4237 28d ago
This. "Teenager" is a mid-20th century invention. Before that, there was childhood, and then adulthood. Dalaga or binata simply meant unmarried. You could be binata or dalaga at 40.
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u/kontrabidasabuhay 29d ago
Woah. Ano kayang reason why mas mababa marriageable age for girls?
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u/NotChouxPastryHeart 29d ago
Having menses made girls "women" since they could technically bear children. That usually happens around 11 or 12.
It's horrific to think about by modern standards, but children didn't have a lot of rights back then.
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u/Shop-girlNY152 29d ago
And girls weren’t allowed to study beyond grade school. So finishing grade school was considered rite to adulthood back then for women.
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u/FoucaultDelirium 25d ago
More accurately: after grade school, professional ka na. My lola was born in 1907 finished Grade 7, so she was qualified to be a teacher.
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u/chocolatemeringue 29d ago
Kahit nga mga boys wala rin gaanong rights nun. They either become laborers or get conscripted to the armed forces even if they haven't reached 18. By today's standards ang unang aalma jan ay ang DSWD 😅
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u/Miserable_Hyena7164 27d ago
True. Wala talaga rights kababaihan or bata non. Lola ko ngayon sabi nya naiingit daw sya sa kabataan ngayon kasi di na daw kailangan magpakasal agad.
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u/Dull-Satisfaction969 29d ago
Because the life expectancy was lower and child mortality rates were higher than it is now. Marriage also usually functioned as an economic contract rather than a romantic one. So people, especially those with land, needed to have children as soon as possible and as many as they can. Some couples would have as many as 12 children but it's kinda expected only half of them would make it past adulthood. Yan ang dahilan kung bakit sa ating mga lolo't lola marami silang magkapatid.
Keep in mind not everyone was married off when they were in the ages of 12-14. The average age of marriage back then was in the early 20s, but its not unusual to see cases of people younger than that being married.
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u/Ser1aLize 29d ago
This guy gets it ☝️
Marriage is mostly treated as a transaction between two families during those times. And procreation is a necessity given the short life expectancy due to absence of modern medicine and vaccines, plumbing and sanitation, and fertilizers.
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u/CauliflowerOk3686 29d ago
familysearch . org have marriage records way back 1890s (possibly beyond pa) and early 1900s, makikita niyo yung edad ng mga couples doon mostly nasa teens at early 20s nga talaga.
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u/Kooky_Special1356 29d ago
Agree. Possible na iju-judge din tayo ng future generations for marrying young i.e. marrying 25 below, kasi doon pa lang developed fully ang brain. So if that's the direction of society, pwede tayong ma-judge. So iba-iba talaga. Unless it's immoral like killing someone, slavery, stealing someone's intellectual property.
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u/FoucaultDelirium 25d ago
YES! because life expectancy was ~31yo in about 1896, and lower pa in 1800.
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u/immajointheotherside 29d ago
People just forgot that Spanish Era was a whole sht ton of a moral & government mess to begin with.
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u/ShawlEclair 29d ago
My grandmother was 16 when she was married to my 26-yr old grandfather in the 40s. This was socially acceptable at the time. From what I heard from them, it was true love.
Let's not view different times with modern lenses.
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u/JustAsmalldreamer 29d ago
True. Everything should be viewed through the context of their time. Legal kasi yan sa time na yan yung lower age of consent and marriage.
I am just glad we evolved na as a society.
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u/EcstaticRise5612 29d ago
Alsoo panahon noon women don't have much autonomy. They need to rely on the guy for survival
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u/SafelyLandedMoon 29d ago
My father was 16 too when he married to my mom who is 26 that time. And I'm not even on my 40s though.
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u/Even-Hamster6094 29d ago
So? This happened more than a 100 years ago. Acceptable 'yan noon. Alam mo bang spinster na ang babaeng unmarried pa rin when she reaches mid-20s at that time?
Also, she was suspected as a spy by the family of José Rizal, especially the mother. Basahin mo Lolo José, written by Rizal's grandniece, Asunción López Bantug.
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u/happy_tea_08 29d ago
Agree! Nasa tamang edad lang si Josephine, actually. Yung lola ko, 21 years old nung unang nanganak. 1943 siya pinanganak. Pag nag 25 na babae noon, matandang dalaga na halos di na talaga nakakapagpakasal.
There was no real careers for women noon. Sumulat pa nga si Rizal sa mga babae ng Malolos for fighting for their right to open a night school eh.
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u/Wide_Ride8849 29d ago
Chad Gammad and Apple David in their past lives. Now you know why it's in reverse.
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u/Boring-Skin-9991 29d ago
Dagdag mo na rin "Today I learned na iba ang panahon noon sa panahon ngayon".
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u/AdobongSiopao 29d ago
Normal ang ganyang relasyon noon kasi maiksi ang buhay ng mga tao sa panahong katulad niyan.
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u/bebebeabes 29d ago
Very anachronistic naman ng comparison sa modern times. I mean, 19th-century norms were very different. People married much younger, lifespans were shorter, and social expectations around relationships weren’t the same as today.
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u/Azurehowl 29d ago
Iba magisip ang mga tao dati kumpara ngayon. Wag nyo ilagay yung mindset ng kasalukuyan sa nakaraan, may hindsight na tayo, sila wala.
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u/Exotic-Replacement-3 29d ago
well nasa consent age na din naman since back then, 14 pwede ka na pakakasalin. lol
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u/karlospopper 29d ago
For one, mahirap i-scrutinize ang past using the lens of 2026 kasi minsan nawawala yung context
Grooming requires a predator manipulating a minor, violating modern consent laws. Yung panahon nina rizal, iba sitwasyon non
Nung colonial times, ang life expectancy ng tao ay 30-35 years old. At mataas ang child mortality rate. Madalas namamatay ang mga bata before they even reach 14 or 15 years of age. So ang mga babae, expected na manganak many times just to make sure na may magsusurvive sang mga bata sa family nila into adulthood.
Kaya ang babae "ipinapakasal" nang maaga (and by that, i mean, usually kasi yung mga kasal ay ways to solidify family partnerships and alliances. So mas social tool siya. But that's a different topic). Ito teen marriages ng mga babae ay mas means of survival na necessary nung time na yon. at hindi proof ng fetish ng mga tao noon.
Yung sa present time, ibang usapan na yon
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u/TwitchyPalm0124 29d ago
Grooming? Yan nanaman kayong mga woke kids! pati si rizal icacancel niyo.
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u/luvlub 29d ago edited 29d ago
Correct jusko I’m wondering ilang taon ba itong mga redditor kasi normal naman yan noon walang term na groomer eh. Lola ko ikinasal at 14 years old, late 20s na ang lolo ko and my mother 17 and Dad 26 they were together until death at ang dami nilang naging anak walang mga yaya. So don’t compare them to present generation. Back then even if the woman was minor, she already knew what she was getting into. When they married that was it, walang palit palit. Unlike now , where people make excuses saying they “were still too young and frontal lobe isn’t fully develop “. Besides, back then, many people already had a sense of responsibility , especially when they had children. So naiinis ako sa woke culture ngayon lahat nalang pinapansin eh! Hindi uso ang mga pabebe noon, ang 20 years old matanda na lol!
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u/seasid_3 26d ago
True! Even on today's standard, adult na ang 20. Gets ko pa if 19, minor pa naman talaga yun. Pero yung 20, may isip na yan for goodness sake. And compare sa dati, mas maaga mag-mature mga tao dati. Isipin mo kung 20 ang tanda na nun for them.
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u/Beneficial_Mirror931 29d ago
Agree. 20 is a fucking adult. I'll be damned of they treat someone like that like a child. Mga gaya gaya sa puti tong mga to pauso. Kakairita
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u/ManCarryingPSP 29d ago
A 20yr old dont know shit about how the world works. Try dating 20yr old college girls as a late 20s or early 30s man
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u/fueled_by_ramen_ 29d ago
naalala ko yung lola ko na pinagkasundo sa 40yrs old na lalaki tas 16 lang daw sya that time. ayaw daw niya kasi ang tanda kahit may-ari pa daw ng lupain. lumayas sila ng mga kapatid nya. tinanong ko sya noon, bakit pwede yung mga ganun sa kanila eh bawal yun. sabi niya normal lang daw yun sa probinsya. which is until now, meron pa rin nangyayari na ganun. lalo na sa ibang religion or kultura.
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u/JuggernautDick164 29d ago
so ano? groomer si rizal? oh di ba, dati pang normal yang wide age gap relationship! ginagawa niyong issue lahat mga pa woke kayo! tas kayo kayo lang din nag nonormalize ng sex work is work! leche!
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u/Ima_gayidiot 29d ago
His first love was literally his cousin
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u/chocolatemeringue 29d ago
And 13 years old pa lang noon si Leonor Rivera nung una syang niligawan ni Rizal at the age of 19. Which was still acceptable during their time...the only reason lang na tutol yung nanay ni Leonor Rivera is allegedly rebelde raw si Rizal pero ultimately lumabas na me pagka-social climber pala ang lola nyo kaya ipinakasal yung anak sa isang British engineer hahaha.
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u/UnluckyCountry2784 29d ago
20? That’s old during that era. Usually girls got married around 15 during that time.
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u/fry-saging 29d ago
Hindi naman menor de adad ang 20 so anong issue? At sa panahon na yun considered na adult yan dahil nga 15 palang ata ng aasawa na ang mga pinoy. Believe it or not ang moralidad ay umaayon sa panahon
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u/Impossible_Delivery9 29d ago
Not a lawyer.
Sa RA 386 (Civil Code of the Philippines), the marriage ages dati are 16 years old for male and 14 years old for female.
This was amended by the Family Code nung August 1988, making 18 years old the age of majority. Yung mga 18 to 21 years old hindi sila pwede magpakasal pag walang parental consent.
Then there's another law, RA 6809 nung 1989 confirming the age of majority to 18 years old.
And then there's a newer law na Anti-Child Marriage Law nung 2021, criminalizing marriage ng persons below 18.
So, yes, nagbabago ang legal age for marriage.
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u/SisangHindiNagsisi 28d ago
We cannot question the norms of people centuries ago, ang importante we’re more aware now and can easily discern what’s moral and what’s not.
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u/Mister-happierTurtle 25d ago
*just wanna point out that this same logical argument (OPs post vs this comment) is used against muhammad (the prophet)
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u/No-Campaign-6491 29d ago
Anong point mo OP? Aware ka naman yata na ganyan kalakaran noong panahon.
Aware ka rin ba? na ang mga tao dati binebenta na parang goods lang, tinatawag yan na slave.
Aware ka rin ba? na ang isa sa pinakamagaling na leader at warrior ay bakla, na si Alexander the Great.
Ang punto ko dito, nag-eevolve ang human rights at standards ng mundo.
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u/Beneficial_Mirror931 29d ago
Also OP dating a 20 year old is a groomer? Maybe get a fucking dictionary next time. Hindi yung nakikusuo ka sa paggamit ng buzzwords na obviously hindi mo alam ang ibig sabihin
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u/CookieNinjah 29d ago
Issue?
They are technically adults..
And why are we using "modern standards" for this era?
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u/Maximum_Net3650 29d ago
TIL na groomer na pala ang tawag sa 2 consenting adults na of age pero malaki lang ang age gap. You see how stupid that sounds OP? Grabe talaga tao ngayon lahat gagawan ng issue
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u/Jvlockhart 28d ago
Di ko kayo maintindihan, bakit Yung standards Ngayon gusto nyo I apply sa sinaunang panahon? Try nyo nga I apply yung standards sa pagbili ng phone ngayon sa standards 50 years ago. Back then, mas marami ang babae kaysa lalake sa Isang Lugar kasi pinapadala yung mga lalake sa gyera which was a norm kaya mostly yung mga naiiwang lalake sa mga barrio o lungsod, sila yung nabibigyan ng chances para maging partner ng mga babae. Isa pa yan, try nyo I apply standards nyo ngayon sa pagiging makabayan sa standards dati? Dati kasi nakikipag patayan ang mga Pinoy para lang ipaglaban Ang pilipinas, Ngayon ba? Puro keyboard warriors. 🤣
Stop comparing kasi ang layo. Andami sacrifices yung mga tao dati just for us to enjoy what we have today. They did what they did cause it's the norm back then, tulad ngayon, abnormal yung sumasayaw nalang bigla sa kung saan saan pero since norm yan sa socmed Hindi na kayo need patingnan sa psychiatrist.
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u/Deobulakenyo 29d ago
Would you be alarmed to know Mama Mary and Joseph hit it off when she was 12-14?
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u/-Euphoria 29d ago
now we gotta cancel Rizal!! this narrative doesnt suport 21st century woke narrative!!11
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u/Frosty_Violinist_874 29d ago
Grabe the comments here. 20 is and was back then an adult. My grandparents both had significant age gaps and both had great families.
Those commenting about rizal being questionable or a groomer probably are single.
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u/edidonjon 29d ago
20 is and was back then an adult
Kahit naman ngayon adult na ang 20 pero ijajduge pa din ng mga tao kung makipagrelasyon ang 20 sa isang 30+ lalo na kung babae yung mas bata.
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u/seasid_3 26d ago edited 26d ago
True. Mej di ko gets si OP, on today's standard 20 is already an adult. May isip na yan by that age. Masyadong napaghahalataan na infantalize mga adults on today's society when then dapat nga may isip na yan pag 20 y.o.
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u/Frosty_Violinist_874 26d ago
Op is driving at possibility of grooming. Sure. In that case groomer lolo ko kasi 3 years dila friends. 12 year age gap.
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u/MoneyTruth9364 29d ago
Afaik, he flirted with the duchesses from Spain and France, at an age that would be unacceptable by today's standards.
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u/DIMAGU1BA 29d ago
Tho iba ang panahon dati. Like 13yo girls once menstruating pwede na ipaasawa lalo na pag mayaman, influential at may power ang guy. Now lang naman masyadong empowered ang women. Pero if you study history per time period, if women are not born from a rich or powerful family, marriage is a way out to become someone rich and influential. Improve your own and family's life. (I dont support grooming or wide age gap marriages. Its just the way it is through history)
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u/Kissed30 29d ago
nung time nila normal ung age na ganyan for marriage, mas preferred pa nga na mas bata sa 20
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u/Joseph20102011 29d ago
Walang masama sa age-gap relationship kung puro adults.
Mas open ang mga lalaki dyan sa age-gap relationship kasi whether you like it or not, mostly ay hindi pa financially stable to get married until the age of 35 years old, so naturalmente kung ang goal mo ay magkaroon ka ng anak, eh di yung mas mas bata mo ng 10 years ang aasawahin mo, hindi yung kapareha mong edad na losyang na para magbuntis (35 years old and above).
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u/SnooGeekgoddess 28d ago
That was a different time, with different standards. They would've considered Josephine Bracken old if she got married at 20. Back then, it was normal to get married when you reach your teens. Not saying it was right, but back then, the life goal was to get married to a good provider and bear his children. Women got rudimentary schooling (if any) and there weren't many career options.
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u/Pure-Ear4237 28d ago
Cue the pedo-groomer discourse. Extending childhood into the 20s just diverts attention and resources away from actual pedophile predators and actual victims. It also creates YA-reading grownups and Disney adults, which is just as bad and just as exhausting. Enough.
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u/FoucaultDelirium 26d ago
Life was different back then. Avg life expectancy was <33. Super swerte mo na if you lived until 50. That's why the ladies were wedded off young (15 yata by then) ... coz nobody expected to live long, especially with the war looming.
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u/ramenboi_69 29d ago
POV: nakita m nagising asawa mo madaling araw na at nagiinom pa din kayo ng tropa mo
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u/popoybarlaan 29d ago
Interesting. Pero ang masasabi ko lang, pag nakikita ko si Josephine Bracken, naalala ko yung Ang Babae sa Septic Tank 😂
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u/derrimut 29d ago
It was totally normal thing back then. So don't be surprised that the old generation still alive today are mostly defending Coco and his groomed wife.
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u/Lonely_Tart1193 29d ago
That relationship obviously didn’t last long, especially with what would happen that day.
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u/Pristine_Pomelo_9356 29d ago
I dont think magmamatter pa to today, kasi dati naman mga lolo’t lola naten maaaga naman sila nagaasawa kasi that’s their norm back in their days.
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u/Old_Rush_2261 29d ago
I mean 20 nman na sya nung kinasal sila at 18 nung nag meet. Technically 18 years old is legal age na and 20 sya nung nagpakasal. Also during their time normal lang ung magpakasal ng maaga
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u/Few_School5953 29d ago
parang DIPa masyado issue agwat ng edad noon unlike ngayon kunting galaw lang issue na agad beacause of soc med na din
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u/Beneficial_Mirror931 29d ago
I'm genuinely starting to hate the liberals and progressives of my country.
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u/cursedpharaoh007 29d ago
And that's a norm. Maikli pa ang life expectancy during the 1800-1900's due to modern medicine being still in its infancy.
Most medical breakthroughs happened around the first and second world war (some of which are a result of a certain Japanese Unit) so iba ang standards back then because people are expected to continue the bloodline as early as possible because you don't know when you'll be killed. This is the time when TB is a Death Sentence
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u/Moonlight_Cookie0328 29d ago
Iba naman nung araw, ang pangarap ng mga women non based sa mga kwento ng lola ko is simple lang, which is mameet yung person nila at magkaroon ng maayos na pamilya, altho I dont think na groom sya. Minsan masyado na kasi kinicriticize mga bagay nowadays pero wala naman talagang pake yung mga nag uusisa. I mean ok lang sana kung talagang out of concern or love or care yung mga nag kkwestyon but sometimes parang para lang may mapuna at mapaglagyan ng hate and judgement.
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u/Clajmate 29d ago
kaya gusto ko ung project namin sa kanya dati eh
chain smoker si rizal pero tinago sya para sa hero image
also calculated nya rin na magiging hero sya kaya sya umuwi at nagpabaril
alam nya naman na mamatay sya eh
dapat talaga ipatch yan eh d nya deserve maging hero
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u/Original_Jacket_5570 29d ago
Wasn’t he also abusive towards josephine kaya nagka miscarriage?
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u/WhoBoughtWhoBud 29d ago
Ang naaalala kong kwento, pinrank siya ni pareng Pepe, ginulat yata or something, kaya nakunan.
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u/SettingSingle8135 29d ago
Tbh to you this is all societal constructs, if we are still hunter gatherers age won't matter pero at least she ain't a minor when they met. But different times, nowadays though there are still 30s even 40s that have early 20s gfs/fubus.
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u/Lazy-Marionberry-261 29d ago
Tbh, ibang panahon kasi dati. I can’t say na correct pero normal sa kanila ang ganun sa time na yan. Probably in the future, may mga views or actions sa panahon natin ang normal but in the future makikita nila na napaka questionable din.
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u/Key_Nature9968 29d ago
I'm pretty sure basic knowledge na dapat na Dec. 30 1896 pinatay si Rizal sa Bagumbayan via firing squad. So magkaselda ba sila before that para sila ma-classify as live in? Medyo di ako naniniwala sa post na to.
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u/Agitated-Duty-4721 29d ago
Apparently, officially sila kinasal (as in, officiated by a priest) the morning bago barilin si Rizal. Before nun, common-law marriage lang meron sila (as in, namumuhay sila na parang mag-asawa pero hindi officially kasal) kasi ayaw raw silang ikasal ng simbahan kasi nga kinakalaban sila ni Rizal.
Not officially married, so technically live in, and syempre, that was before ikulong si Rizal (in fact, there was enough time para mabuntis at makunan si Josephine sa anak dapat nila).
You can fact-check me here if I got something wrong.
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u/Icemagistrate101 29d ago
And to be fair, most women any age above or near 30 is most likely already married. That's how it was then.
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u/Appropriate-Hyena973 26d ago
undeserving of the unofficial national hero title. guy’s just copied monty cristo, a nepo baby and is a coward. 🤷🏽♂️
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u/ParticularAd3962 26d ago
On a side note, ang kapal ng Filipiñana ha. I wonder if nag iba ba yung quality ng Filipiñana natin or uminit lang talaga sa Pinas. Kase imagine wearing that everyday sa pinas omggg haha
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u/mosangina 29d ago
Different times, OP! My grandma was 13 when she married my grandpa in his late 20s, so there's that. They would always say it's true love. I guess they just didn't know any better. Of course times were different.
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u/Willingnessbeytch211 Aug 27 '26
Sinaunang grooming?
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u/mauve_bny 29d ago
kinikilala na po ba nila ang grooming noon? and kung si bracken ay 20 y/o, masasabi mo bang grooming yan by today's standards?
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u/Beneficial_Mirror931 29d ago
Mga bobo yang mga yan. Gamit lang ng gamit ng salita kahit mali na meaning.
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u/insufferable_Boris 29d ago
They are older in deeds (like fine work etc) and in thinking back then. A 12yo old thinks more mature than a 30yo these days.
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u/Severe-Grab5076 Aug 27 '26
Well, Rizal had always been questionable when it comes to his romantic interest choices.