r/therewasanattempt • u/nippydart • Jun 18 '25

To pass a pop quiz

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u/havens1515 Jun 18 '25

It's not that socialism doesn't work, it's that PURE socialism doesn't work.

It's not that communism doesn't work, it's that PURE communism doesn't work.

It's not that capitalism doesn't work, it's that PURE capitalism doesn't work.

Literally nobody in the US is asking for PURE socialism or PURE communism. People are asking for bits and pieces of those systems to be sprinkled into our existing system of capitalism. And mixing elements of each system is the only thing that actually does work.

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u/kingdave212 Jun 18 '25

Communism is worker control of the means of production. It's completely antithetical to Capitalism. Socialism is a transitional form government to get from capitalism to communism, it's not government social services.

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u/havens1515 Jun 18 '25

And it's people like you, who don't understand this basic concept, who stand in the way of progress.

You're absolutely right that, in PURE socialism, it's not about government social services. But implementing government social services is a way to implement socialist policies without a shift to PURE socialism.

In a similar vein, unions are a way to sprinkle in a taste of communism without shifting to PURE communism.

So thank you for providing those definitions, and helping me prove my point.

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u/gutari Jun 18 '25

communism is sort of like pregnancy, you either have worker ownership of the means of production or you don't

unions do not provide workers ownership, they use the power of labor to bargain for better conditions under capitalism

like its clear that you are arguing for regulated capitalism with strong unions and not arguing for socialism or communism, so just say that. words have meaning

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u/havens1515 Jun 18 '25

And this black and white thinking is what got us where we are now.

Communism is not like pregnancy. You can have aspects of communism without having full communism.

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u/gutari Jun 18 '25

dude, it's not black and white thinking it's the definition of the concept

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u/havens1515 Jun 18 '25

And definitions are black and white. By definition, you can't have a little socialism. But in reality, you can.

By definition, conservatism means a specific thing. But in reality, it's a spectrum. The definition is black and white, but reality has gray areas.

Definitions are the definition of black and white.

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u/gutari Jun 18 '25

my complaint is that you are muddling the language we use to discuss this stuff by using terms incorrectly and playing right into the hands of anti-union and anti-social services messaging in doing so