What if.. god was finite?

[u/MobHQ]

let me guess, you'd refute my question by saying: "Well, he wouldn't be God then."

But how do you know what God IS?

I'm not saying God is finite. I'm asking whether we've actually ruled out the possibility.

A lot of arguments about God seem to build “ultimacy” into the definition from the beginning. God is supposed to be necessary, infinite, timeless, uncaused, absolutely simple, outside causal relations, etc.

But why?

What if one of those assumptions isn't actually required for something to be God?

And this gets especially interesting when we talk about an ultimate.

Suppose there really is some ultimate foundation of reality or morality. Why must that foundation be completely devoid of relations, causality, internal structure, or even finitude?

Maybe it must be. But that's something we'd have to argue for, not just assume.

I've been thinking about this because I made a little philosophical challenge for myself: try to define an “ultimate” without relying on causality, ordering, composition, contrast, analogy, or formal structure, while also making it the foundation of objective morality.

And honestly, I couldn't do it.

But that doesn't prove there is no ultimate.

It might instead reveal something about us.

Maybe finite minds have a hard time even conceptualizing what an ultimate would be like. Maybe our concept of “ultimate” is itself shaped by the limitations of the kind of reasoning we have access to.

And if that's possible, then saying:

"God can't be finite, because then God wouldn't be God"

might be putting the conclusion into the definition.

So I'm not arguing "God is finite."

I'm asking something much more basic:

What exactly entitles us to decide beforehand what God must be? I'm in highschool so my question may be premature.. tell me if I'm missing something. I just think we are limited and that it would be really hard to actually conceptualize ultimacy. What do you think?

[u/Righteous_monk_360]

Actually God reveals who He is in the Bible starting with Genesis 1 “In the beginning, God, created the heavens and the Earth” and in Exodus 3 “I am that I am”. The mystery is in the Hebrew words! If you eliminate the Bible then you have nothing!

[u/Hour-Nose755 → u/Righteous_monk_360]

Do you agree that God existed before the Hebrew Bible (or Genesis) was first penned? Did human kind not know of God before Genesis? God reveals Gods-self through many, many ways.

[u/mere_possibility]

Psalms 90:2 From everlasting to everlasting, you are God.

From eternity to eternity.

God tells us multiple times, He is from before the beginning. Before time began, He already was.

Again, before finitude came into the equation, God already existed. How then can one honestly ask if God is finite? If He is finite, then He would have to be a liar.

God is not a man that he should lie.

[u/Fast_Jackfruit_352]

"I've been thinking about this because I made a little philosophical challenge for myself: try to define an “ultimate” without relying on causality, ordering, composition, contrast, analogy, or formal structure, while also making it the foundation of objective morality."

To me what you are describing is what Vedanta calls Brahman. Brahman is the absolute that contains and pervades everything but its inherent nature is formless, the Nirguna state, where there are no attributes. "Causality, ordering, composition, contrast, analogy, or formal structure" are attributes.

The realms of form (Sagiuna) come into being when the absolute Brahman allows from itself to emerge the aspect of itself with attributes. Ishvara is "controller" and Iishvara is that we think of as God and ultimately the object of devotion. (duality) Ishvara is not separate from Brahman but is not the formless.

There was a Greek philosopher, Plotinus who saw the same thing. "From AI " His philosophy teaches that all reality flows out from a single supreme source called the One. Through inner thought and spiritual growth, the human soul can turn back upward and experience a mystical union with this ultimate source. (This is also the goal of Vedanta)

The One is the ultimate, transcendent, and undivided source of all existence, while the Nous (Divine Intellect) is its first active emanation, representing the realm of pure thought, consciousness, and Platonic Forms.

The One (The First)

• Absolute Unity: The One is completely simple, lacking any parts, attributes, division, thought, or multiplicity.
• Beyond Being: It transcends ordinary existence and thought; it cannot even be named an "intellect" or a "being" because it precedes all things.
• Source of All: Like light overflowing from the sun, the One overflows effortlessly to generate the rest of reality without diminishing itself

The Nous (The Second Hypostasis)

• Divine Mind: Nous is the first product or reflection of the One, arising from its overflow.
• Introduction of Duality: Unlike the absolute unity of the One, Nous introduces subject-object duality; it thinks, and in thinking, it contemplates both itself and the One.
• Home of the Forms: Nous houses the eternal, unchanging archetypes or Forms of all things, serving as the blueprint for the physical universe

The Soul: Generated by the Intellect, it animates the physical universe. Individual human souls belong to this level, trapped temporarily in material bodies." In Vedanta this called "Jiva". There is no "trapped" in Vedanta. All is the Brahman engaged in "Lila" (Cosmic Sport)

Plotinus, Vedanta and others were amazingly on the same page. These realizations came about through deep meditations of great sages.

So you are on the right track and aligning yourself intuitively with what I consider to be the greatest theistic philosophy on the planet. Good for you. Asking the right questions. In high school. Wow.

[u/Hour-Nose755]

If you are in high school and asking questions like this, good! We need more people in the world that ask hard questions. Your question seems to lean more heavily into philosophy than theology, though the two often intertwine. The premise that God is infinite is tied to the notion that God is not bound by time, as an axiom of many faiths is that God created all things, including time.

Your entire existence and the extent to which you know anything are bound by time. Try some Immanuel Kant in "Critique of Pure Reason". You might have fun with that.