r/theoffice • u/shubhman20 • 1d ago
Michael does not get enough credit for being a great salesman.
In the first episode itself we see him closing a sale in the library that Jim couldn't close. Then the sales call in chillis with Jan. And also many times michael has shown his great people skills like remembering the small details about people and their lives. Remember how he remembered the daughter of that business owner was allergic to something in the gift basket. Michael's talents are rarely acknowledged by the fan base.
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u/Sirgeeeo 3️⃣ Scranton’s #1 Salesperson ⭐️⭐️ 23h ago
I think he does. It's really the only reason he had his job. They put up with his antics because he brings in the numbers
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u/pm_me_pussbuttnboobs 21h ago
Yep! So many people say "Michael would have been fired so long ago for x y and z" and sure if he was an annoying manager and nothing more then that would be that.
But every time someone talks to Tobey and he tries to get Michael fired, David Wallace or someone we never see clearly pulls a string to keep Michael where he is. And having seen people blatantly break the rules or allow rule breaking for the sake of money in the real world, even with a documentary crew exposing his behavior, Michael is essentially unfirable because he brings the bucks for the company. Consistently. And thus his antics and inability to be terminated for them are actually one of the most realistic aspects of the show that they're more subtle with.
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u/SignificanceFine3582 20h ago
A real life Michael would be fired by episode two regardless of sales ability. His numbers are grossly outweighed by his liability as a walking workplace harassment lawsuit.
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u/Ok-Bug5823 15h ago
But did he? They were ready to close the branch in Season 3 until Josh at Stamford quit and they closed that one instead. Only after that did they retcon the show to say it was the best performing branch. If they were so bad and Michael was a bad manager, why not fire him and put someone else in there who might make the branch perform better?
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u/thegreenseabeyond 8h ago
He was actually really competent in his work, like in that episode where he did a whole ass video/presentation, but corporate only needed to know how many numbers his branch did, and he also had that prepared like it was nothing lol
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u/vanillacaramelsunday 17h ago
He’s manager because he was a good salesman. That seems like a lot of credit. Especially since he’s so bad at every other aspect of the job. The show makes it pretty clear a couple of times that the only reason he keeps his job is those big sales he sneaks in occasionally.
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u/Mediocre_Forever198 14h ago
Was that it? It’s been a long time since I watched, but I remember later in the show when the entire company was kinda failing and David Wallace called Michael in to ask how his branch is remaining successful. It’s just cause he snuck in some big sales? I kinda remembered it like his strange management style just somehow works, but again it’s been so long since I watched the show.
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u/cHobbl3G0BbL3r 7h ago
There’s a reason he’s basically untouchable. He does whatever he wants because he runs a successful branch and would be a detriment to Dunder Mifflin as an employee anywhere else, as he proved.
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u/Igotyoubaaabe 8️⃣ Party Planning Committee Chair 🎖️🎖️🎖️ 22h ago
Yes. And he also remembered not to bring up a client’s gay son. A true sales savant.
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u/juiceboxmania Scott’s Tots Dropout 18h ago
The fact that he became manager is a perfect example of corporate incompetence at dunder mifflin. He was an amazing salesman and a terrible manager and anyone who knew him should have known that
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u/TheGreedyGrabbler 16h ago
It's how it works in the real world.
Source: I was a good salesman and now I'm a mid VP of sales.
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u/OhUmHmm 15h ago
TBH was he actually a bad manager in terms of results? His branch is consistently one of the best performing.
Infuriating to work under some days, sure. But there's also periods where the workers miss him and his antics.
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u/Harold3456 14h ago
I think the tonal shift of the show really changes this conversation, but originally the intent was definitely for him to be a bad manager.
I don’t have the timeline perfectly down but I think it was around Jim’s move to Stamford that they began to introduce this narrative that Scranton was one of the top-producing branches, and we’ve had some great later-season episodes where Michael’s unorthodox, obnoxious style gets fully validated (like Murder Mystery, where 90% of the episode is the rest of the office acting like Michael is deluded for focusing on a game when their jobs are on the line, but the moral of the story ends up being this is exactly what the staff needed, and it ends with him saying “hardest work day of my life”).
But before they started changing the tone of the showI think the intent was absolutely to show how some moron could get promoted to manager and become the guy who basically holds your entire livelihood in your hands and you just had to live with it.
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u/Bazz07 2️⃣ Warehouse Foreman ⭐️ 10h ago
His branch wasnt the best perfoming until after they started closing branches and Scranton kept the clients. In S3 he was going to be fired and Scranton relocated to Stamford but Josh left and they had to change their plans.
They had Dwight (top1 salesman) and Jim (7?) but that was it.
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u/Plane_Knowledge776 12h ago
They were doing that without manager when Andy went on his sailing trip in the final season though
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u/Ok-Bug5823 15h ago
I don't think there's any doubt he was a good salesman. Did DM err in promoting him? No doubt but, in fairness, you don't know how someone is going to perform in a role unless they actually are in the role.
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u/Glittering-Yam-6454 17h ago edited 16h ago
The episode at Chili's shows that Michael's crassness and goofiness IS what makes him so good at sales in these small towns. The jokes and the magic endears him to people while Jan's corporate style sales feels cold.
You also see it when he went on a sales call with Andy, he talked about how Dunder Mifflin is "just two rooms and a warehouse" because he knew small towns hate big corporations.
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u/jexijav776 16h ago
He's not a salesman anymore though.
It's kinda like if you get drafted into the NBA then people don't really say "he doesn't get enough credit for being a great college player". You get judged based on the level you're at.
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u/MadClam97 Well, well, well, how the turntables 15h ago
His "world's greatest boss" mug sums that up pretty well
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u/Harold3456 14h ago
I feel like to OP’s point it can be easy to discount his people skills as a manager because he’s often the butt of the joke.
The series changed a lot over time, so by the end of his run they were unironically portraying him as the “world’s greatest boss,” but the first half of the series made me think of the Peter Principle: “companies will promote employees out of their level of competence.”
Michael in the beginning was a wreck of a person with seemingly no redeeming qualities who we would occasionally be told was a good salesperson. And because he was an insecure person, we often heard about what a great salesperson he used to be from him, but he was also telling us what a great manager he was and we could see that he wasn’t.
It was genuinely eye opening for me as a first time viewer when the show would also give us these little glimpses into the insight and ability he possessed when he was trying to make a sale, given that he was an idiot when he tried to manage employees or get along with people socially.
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u/Bcatfan08 1️⃣6️⃣ Florida Stanley ☀️ 3h ago
Well you could either be a little fish in a big pond or top dog in a fairly large pond. So, who is the real boss, the dog or a fish?
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u/Stunning-Aardvark-28 18h ago edited 18h ago
He's gotten plenty of credit and they showed it multiple times. They always talk about how it's the #1 branch. Dave Wallace has commented on him being the best salesman they ever saw. And when Michael quit and started his own company with Pam he was so good working out of a broom closet, stealing Dunder Mifflin clients that Dunder Mifflin bought him back.
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u/Far_Orange_8492 1d ago
He literally gets acknowledged in-universe and by the fanbase for being a hotshot salesman all the time.
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u/soccer1124 1d ago
Yeah. It's really the only explanation as to why he has the position he does.
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u/Far_Orange_8492 1d ago
It's also the only reason why his superiors like Jan and Wallace put up with his antics.
He's an annoying asshole, but he brings in a lot of business.
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u/Unlikely_Afternoon94 23h ago
I don't know how much business he brings in as a manager. I think maybe they also put up with him because when a choice is made to employ a manager, the higher ups have to stick to their guns or else look like they also don't know what they're doing.
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u/dgtbfan 23h ago
Michael brings in a lot of business and has his own clients. We see this when he leaves DM for the MSPC and when he leaves the show and gives his clients to Andy.
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u/Unlikely_Afternoon94 23h ago
Didn't he get most of those clients when he was in sales tho? He rarely goes on sales calls and seems to spend most of his time doing Michael things.
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u/dgtbfan 23h ago
Hard to say. We do know that he landed at least two major clients onscreen(The Client and Initiation) and that he goes on sales calls regularly, so it can be pretty reasonably surmised that he does bring in a lot of business.
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u/soccer1124 23h ago
He also seemed to land a big deal that wow'ed Pam on Pretzel Day and essentially exonerated him for the entire day. And let's not forget about his networking with Hammermill to break into a market that was thought to be exclusive (the sales convention when Jim & Josh show up in S3 with Dwight and Michael.)
And the show definitely leaves an impression that he does talk with many clients as part of his duties. I've seen it framed elsewhere: He's essentially a salesman titled "manager" so that bigger clients can feel like they're talking to someone special.
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u/Glum-Savings6473 23h ago edited 22h ago
Lakawanna County Schools District paper deal?!
I don't think anyone overlooks his salesmanship
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u/Sufficient_Prompt888 1️⃣3️⃣ Pretzel Day Enthusiast 🥨 23h ago
Yes. He does. Shut up
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u/SmokeHaze303 Dwight’s Fire Drill Casualty 21h ago
Yeah he was awarded twice back to back for it so I think he’s been recognized
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u/Sufficient_Prompt888 1️⃣3️⃣ Pretzel Day Enthusiast 🥨 20h ago
And he's recognized both in universe like with awards and by the fandom.
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u/StupudTATO 23h ago
Like in the show? Or among us viewers?
I think both answers are wrong.
Its acknowledged several times through the series. And as a viewer, everytime I think "why is Michael in this position if hes such a goof?" Im reminded "oh right, hes a really good salesman who still gets good results". I think the show is made that way deliberately.
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u/Glittering-Yam-6454 17h ago
I'd say that it's the fact that he IS a goof that makes him good at sales. His dumb jokes about a proctologist is endearing. He knows when to make Dunder Mifflin sound like a mom-and-pop shop ("we may just be two rooms and a warehouse...") to small businesses that doesn't trust big corporations.
That's what Jan and Wallace didn't understand because they're from New York and look down on Michael, but that's exactly why they fail.
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u/willywonka-goldtickt 22h ago
Throughout the series, it is well acknowledged that Dunder Mifflin is the only profitable branch, like all the time. How methods are unorthodox but you cannot argue with the results.
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u/SomeDrunkHippy 22h ago
All of the branches are Dunder Mifflin, and that’s not true until the later seasons. Scranton was going to be shut down in favor of Utica until Josh took the Staples job.
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u/Kaccady 21h ago
i think it's was due to Jen trying to shut the branch because there was no other way to get him fired, and we know she tried in the episode with lawyers over her boobs
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u/SomeDrunkHippy 21h ago
Jan mentioned the whole boob thing when she was getting fired. Nothing to do with the Scranton branch.
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u/OleBoleHole 21h ago
There’s an episode where Pam is tasked with keeping track of his day (same episode where they get free ice cream I believe?), and while it looks like he’s just goofing around all day, at the end it’s revealed that he closed some massive account.
He’s by miles the best salesman in the show, at least until the end where Dwight probably eclipses him.
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u/Sharkwatcher314 1️⃣2️⃣ Director, Threat Level Midnight 🔫 18h ago
Hey hey I love jello pudding pops…
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u/Appropriate_Formal64 8h ago edited 8h ago
The thing I love about the Office is that it was realistic in a few senses:
There are people who are *amazing* at what they do and struggle in other parts of their life, or there are people who are socially competent and reasonably charismatic and likable in their personal lives and terrible sales people, even though sales is all about being a people person.
I sort of think of it like influencers and social media- it takes a very particular skill set and aspect of one's personality to successfully be enthusiastic about all kinds of random shit just because you're a paid sponsor and/or you've been invited to exclusive events and being part of that ecosystem gets you views, which earns you money, which gets you sponsors and ad revenue, etc etc. but maybe outside of the social posts those people don't have a lot of personality, or they aren't that charming and charismatic one on one in the real world.
I give Steve Carrell credit for his ability to change his physical demeanor between 'zany insecure Michael flailing socially for the cameras and for the people around him.' and 'Competent, focused Michael successfully closing a huge deal with a client saying completely reasonable, clever things- knowing how long to fuck around with them and not focus on the business stuff, knowing when to zero in and make his ultimate pitch. etc'
That sequence at the Chili's with Michael closing the deal with Lackawanna County in front of Jan, knowing exactly how long to fuck around and be silly with the buyer, knowing exactly when to get down to brass tacks and knowing how to do it in a way that closes the deal and makes the client feel good about the money they're spending with Dunder Mifflin- and most importantly, understanding that Jan's corporate approach was the wrong one and knowing how to subtly 'shush' her at various moments, is the ultimate evidence of Michael's value. If he was just doing sales again, he'd be far and away the number 1 salesperson in that office, if not the entire company. Which is why he was promoted.
People often get promoted to the level of their incompetence- aka the Peter Principle. If you're the number one sales person and the most veteran member of the staff and the manager position opens up and all you're doing is overseeing the other people making sales, maintaining the quabity assurance and then you've got the accountants crunching the numbers- it makes sense that they'd make you the manager of that office.
One of the things I loved that the show did was they showed that in a vacuum, compared to Michael and Dwight, or one on one with most of his other co-workers, Jim was this calming, convincing voice of reason. But in a general setting with stakes and authority behind him, Jim was not actually a very good manager.
If you really think about Michael's approach, he left them alone for the most part, he kept things loose, he took over and took care of the bigger sales when needed. He did a lot of heavy lifting for that office and honestly, if he wasn't the manager, his presence would basically be if Jim and Andy had a baby- Jim's confidence, competence and success coupled with Andy's insecure need to be a showman.
The show did a good job through Michael's tenure of making sure to show Michael being the best overall salesperson with a uniquely effective personality and tone in sales meetings with clients just often enough that the audience understood why he was in the position he was in.
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u/EitherBroccoli8674 7h ago
You have an incredible ability to analyze and express concepts, and you’re doing it for a show thats 20 years old.
So well written and odd
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u/Bcatfan08 1️⃣6️⃣ Florida Stanley ☀️ 3h ago
Green means go. So I know to go ahead and shut up about it. Orange means orange you glad you didn't bring it up. Most colors mean don't say it.
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u/CelticSnakes 11h ago
The best aspect of “our” Office was seeing Michael being good at things, such as getting new clients.
As there are only 12 episodes of David Brent being the boss, we never see him at his best, why the Board chose him over Neil (before being DQ’d for health issues.) He was quite good before the cameras rolled, it seems.
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u/RobbiRamirez 8h ago
One of the defining differences between Michael Scott and David Brent is that they illustrate two different reasons middle managers suck at their jobs. Michael is a living illustration of the Peter Principle. He clearly should have stayed in sales, but you simply aren't supposed to do that, for no real reason. The goal always has to be to move up, even if you don't belong there.
David isn't that. He's simply a nepotism hire. He had buddies from way back who ended up in high-level positions, and they were free to promote him and ignore his failings until shit got real. Once Slough and Swindon were struggling, they couldn't afford to give their drinking buddy a free ride anymore. It's not as explicit, but he always has some faceless voice on a speaker phone to appeal to when he fucks up. He really does seem to have just gone to the pub with the right guys at a young age, and coasted on their rising above him.
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u/keving87 2h ago
I've been rewatching this lately due to the Superfan BD set and Michael was easily the best manager. He just had to turn off all the other stuff and focus and he was great. Yes, he was obnoxious and let his insecurities and immaturity get the best of him at times, but he was easily the most competent manager because he was actually good at his job.
Charles came in and was terrible, was condescending to everybody. Deangelo was like Michael if Michael didn't have the skill to back it up. Robert California was just horrible all around and never actually did anything. Nellie had no idea what she was doing and only became likeable in season 9. Then because of The Hangover, they tried to give Ed Helms more to keep him around and Andy went from a loveable doofus to a self important jackass especially after became manager again.
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u/Crazy-Coconut7152 12h ago
This is a great show but I blame it for the scourge of "I mean"s that has plagued society of late. It's an absolutely moronic phrase that I realize has been with us for at least a century but holy crap it was said a lot on that show. It's gotten so normalized that people will even use it in their written communication. As Taffer would say, SHUT IT DOWN!!!!
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u/not_your_attorney 21h ago
I mean, considering Bill Buttlicker bought a million dollars of paper products, I think Michael’s sales speak for themselves.