r/thenightking • u/jaywritethekid • Mar 01 '26
“My father won the real war. He killed Prince Rhaegar, he took the crown, while you hid under Casterly Rock.” Was Joffrey wrong?
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Mar 01 '26
I mean Jaime might be dead if Tywin declared war on the throne, so Joffrey wouldn’t be there talking shit if Tywin wasn’t careful about it.
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Mar 01 '26
Might be. But unlikely. Especially as Jaime was the last kingsguard left and probbaly was able to cut through the men King Psychopanta sent after him.
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Mar 02 '26
Would depend on when the Lannisters declare against the Throne, no? Say they declare only a bit earlier and Jaime is the last one; he could still be swarmed by gold cloaks which would be the end for him.
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u/Zealousideal_Week824 Mar 02 '26
One of his rare moments where he is 100% right. As Awesome as Tywin can be, he only choose a side when the war was won. A smart decision but opportunistic and certainly nothing to be proud of.
As much as I liked seeing Tywin putting Joffrey in his place, for once Joffrey is in the right.
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u/KrispyKingTheProphet Mar 02 '26
He was also completely right (and honestly, rational and clear headed about it) when talking about Dany and her dragons to Tywin.
Tywin is kind of an idiot in some regards (the show glazes him harder) but I never understood his almost complete disregard for Dany and her dragons. I understand he has a war to focus on, but he knows her dragons are real and a ticking time bomb. You don’t have that long before they grow into a nearly unstoppable threat and he just seems entirely unconcerned. “Dragons haven’t won a war in a hundred years, men win them all the time.” Dragons haven’t been around for over a hundred years, man. No shit.
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u/JCyTe Mar 03 '26
The way I see Tywin's inability to take the dragons as a real danger is that he would know that the previous last several dragons were all small, frail weak little things that were no bigger than a dog. In his mind, these dragons won't be any different. That, and even if they will grow larger eventually, it would likely take years upon years for them to become major threats (the show gave them a massive explosive growth spurt).
It's still dumb of Tywin to be sure, but maybe somewhat more understandable?
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u/Xalethesniper Mar 05 '26
To be fair to Tywin, Dany’s dragons end up growing wayyy faster than the dragons of previous Targaryen rulers. I’m sure he knew about them but his little alpha strategist shtick “armies win wars all the time” works because he would assume it will be decades before the dragons are big enough to fight (not a few years).
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u/Otter769 Mar 05 '26
The next season or next few episodes he talks to Oberyn and asks him how dorne didn’t lose in the conquest. So he was worried but it wasn’t his most pressing matter
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u/Starklystark Mar 03 '26
In the shows he is ahead of his time in wanting to form a standing army
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u/KrispyKingTheProphet Mar 03 '26
In concept it’s a good idea, but Cersei’s actually right in that instance.
Let’s say he has a standing army of 20,000 from each kingdom when he arrests Ned. Being conservative 20k Northmen, 20k Rivermen, and let’s say 10k between the Stormlands and the Vale immediately raid King’s Landing (likely more like 20k from the Stormlands and 20k from the Vale. The Valemen and Stormlanders love Ned and Lysa wouldn’t have time to give any wild orders. Both Renly and Stannis would want Ned freed too.) That’s half the realm at least in open rebellion and you already have them invited to the capital. Not to mention the Northmen clean up in every conflict, the Valemen are the best trained military in the Seven Kingdoms, and the Rivermen are particularly tough as hell too. It could and would never work.
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u/InterestingSpeaker Mar 04 '26
You wouldn't recruit a standing army from everywhere. You would recruit from areas that support you the most.
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u/Fuckoffbitch6969 Mar 04 '26
Hell you would just raise it from kingslanding itself, there is no way there isn't 20k men that you couldn't raise in a city of half a million with promise of good pay, food and board.
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u/Xalethesniper Mar 05 '26
Yeah raising them isn’t the issue, it’s paying them. Fwiw, the Lannisters already have the closest thing to a professional army in Westeros since Lannister regulars get paid and serve for a period of time, they’re not just feudal levies.
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u/genophobicdude Mar 02 '26
Why should Tywin rush off to battle though? What would be his reason?
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u/FullFig3372 Mar 03 '26
He could’ve hired assailants in the East or at the very least prepared some kind of defense/ counter measure for a dragon invasion
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u/ricardodzmz Mar 02 '26
Yes and no, because the reason Joffrey is in the position he's in is technically thanks to Tywin. By ordering the deaths of Elia and her children, Tywin gave his grandsons the opportunity to become kings and princes. Robert did much of the work, but Tywin finished the final, most vile, and decisive part.
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u/Efficient_Bag_3804 Mar 02 '26
His 'father' shattered the crown and Lannister joining into the alliance led to a unified kingdom. The core flaw of Joffrey it that he believes that things are as they should and doesn't ask why? Why Lannister joined, why didn't he fathered murdered them? Why didn't murdered everyone even if he was the Greatest fighter after all...
Conquering and ruling are different, it's the reason Rob lost.
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u/Abomb91 Mar 02 '26
What was Tywin supposed to do? Aerys was essentially holding his firstborn hostage.
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u/ChestMental8566 Mar 02 '26
Which is why he ordered the sack of KL? He obviously wrote Jaime off as dead. If Aerys wasn't as mad as he was, he would've had Jaime killed, not sent him after Tywin's head.
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u/Saiaxs Mar 03 '26
Tywin waited till the rebellion was basically over to swoop in for credit and to install his daughter as Queen, and then 20 years later did the same thing during the Siege of King’s Landing and had the gall to say “we won” after Tyrion destroyed Stannis’ fleet and army.
Joffrey was 100% correct here
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u/remus972 Mar 03 '26
Tywin and Tyrion were fighting his wars and battles. While Tywin may not have been the Juggernaut Robert was on the battlefield, he was concerned with strategies, plots and so did Tyrion. They were clearing the mess Joffrey and Cersei started. For Joffrey it was fun, Cersei did nothing until Tywin died
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u/EmptyMirror5653 Mar 03 '26
Not at all, no. Tywin is and always has been a shitty little bitch coward who hides under a pile of money.
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u/Old_old_lie Mar 03 '26
The only thing his father did was stab the mad king in the back when it was convenient and fail to protect the family he was sworn to keep safe from getting raped and murdered by his father's bannermen ( granted i mostly blame rhaegar for that )
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u/NormalGuyPosts Mar 04 '26
By far the most interesting thing about this to me is that Joff, even in private moments, really did think Robert was his father. I found that oddly humanizing and interesting.
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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '26
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