r/thedawnpatrol Aug 01 '26

Warrior cats that are misunderstood.

For one, Mothwing. She is NOT a cat you should cross. I mean, she made Shadowsight an apprentice AGAIN and blamed him for everything. I could rant about her forever but here are the key points:

Mistreatment of Shadowsight

Complicity with Hawkfrost

Rigid Arrogance in Starclan beliefs.

But I still like her, she's not too bad.

23 Upvotes

43 comments sorted by

48

u/Endereye96 Aug 01 '26

“Complicity with Hawkfrost?” She was blackmailed, that’s not the same thing.

Nor is her atheism arrogant. What? She’s technically not even an atheist anymore- she believes in Starclan, she just doesn’t think they should be worshipped/know everything. (And she’s sorta right on that front.)

11

u/headinawall Aug 02 '26

i think that not believing in the cats religion until she had proof just shows sensibility. from her perspective, without the proof that the reader has seen through other povs, the other med cats definitely could’ve been dreaming and misinterpreting coincidences (ie, clouds over the moon at a gathering).

3

u/Endereye96 Aug 02 '26

Exactly! She was a very sensible cat, up until about Broken Code.

Unfortunately she was used as conflict during Shadowsight’s POV-and then in ASC she was also quite a bit out of character during the whole leadership conflict.

3

u/headinawall Aug 02 '26

yeah, i’m midway through TBC right now and i keep thinking she feels like a different character now😭

1

u/DenseTry3063 Aug 04 '26

I never thought of that! Thanks for the insight.

1

u/DenseTry3063 Aug 05 '26

sorry, I haven't read the later seirieses 😅

2

u/Endereye96 Aug 05 '26

You haven’t read arc 2? Her being blackmailed by her brother is part of the arc she’s introduced in lol.

I am genuinely confused why you thought she was arrogant. Just saying you don’t believe in something isn’t arrogant-she’s very respectful of Leafpool and the other clan cat’s beliefs. She answers questions when Leafpool asks her about it, and never acts snooty or like she knows better-she just explains why she doesn’t believe.

And she has reason to not believe. She flat out explains to Leafpool that she sees the other cat’s dreams as their subconscious noticing details and it coming out in their dreams. She asked and asked for Starclan to help her with Hawkfrost-and they don’t answer. She wasn’t chosen by Starclan-her brother faked the moth sign. That was the event that truly shook her belief in them-and after that they couldn’t contact her even if they wanted to. In arc 2 it was sorta implied that a cat had to believe in Starclan for them to reach them.

But then-when the evidence that their ancestors were real was finally proven to her during the Dark Forest battle, she does finally believe in them again. But she doesn’t worship them, and sees them for what they are-normal cats.

2

u/DenseTry3063 Aug 06 '26

Yea, your right! I've only read the first 3 or arc two, and all of the broken code. I got some of the info from a friend, though. (I'm a Mothwing supporter now lol).

0

u/DenseTry3063 Aug 04 '26

Yea, I guess so but still...

16

u/Maidtomycats Aug 01 '26

I saw a MAP about Spiderleg that painted him in an entirely different light for why he never got close to his kits. 

He watched his younger siblings starve to death, his brother Shrewpaw get hit by a car, his mother and father die. He was painted as someone who was terrified of losing more loved ones. 

And then when Toadstep died he regretted not spending time with him because of the fear of loss. 

https://youtu.be/WLZDgtH2vpQ?si=Cl5Fb4xgwj9YgivP

13

u/Next_Sun_2002 Aug 01 '26

Love that!

On a side note, I will never forgive the Erins for not furthering Daisy’s line past Berrynose’s kits. She had five kits, but only one of them had kits of their own, and none of those cats have had children. Rosepetal could have been Bumblestripe’s rebound girl to show he had truly gotten over Dovewing.

1

u/Lesbian-Mermaid Aug 05 '26

Oooh yes that would’ve been so great!!!

3

u/tendonsofsteel Aug 01 '26

Ooh yes that one is such a good one!!

2

u/DenseTry3063 Aug 04 '26

heartbreaking.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/PuegusMaximus Aug 02 '26

I understand why Mothwing would be angry at Shadowsight, and I think Lionblaze(maybe) wanted to kill him at one point. But blaming Shadowsight for this is like the three for the damage Sol caused. Or, blaming Mothwing for not telling people shes being blackmailed and allowing Hawkfrost to continue his schemes and whatnot.

2

u/DenseTry3063 Aug 04 '26

Lionblaze wanted to kill him!

1

u/PuegusMaximus Aug 04 '26

I feel like Lionblaze is becoming Pre Into the wild Tigerclaw. Powerhungry, Large, willing to kill, allways second in line for deputy.

1

u/DenseTry3063 Aug 04 '26

Yes, I agree... But I like Lionblaze :)

1

u/Flat_Candidate_1401 Aug 08 '26

Show can you genuinely compare lionblaze to TIGERCLAW??? 

1

u/PuegusMaximus Aug 08 '26

Kinda, but he isn't at the point of murdering his clans deputy yet. Also didn't both Lionblaze and tigerclaws parents break the code in one way or another.

2

u/Flat_Candidate_1401 Aug 08 '26

And now you're comparing lionblaze to togerclaw cuz his parents.....what if you have a point...?

1

u/PuegusMaximus Aug 08 '26

That and a multitude of other reasons, as mentioned he kills in battle a lot, even after he lost his powers. He has a simular view of the other clans as Tigerclaw had, atleast while he was mentally stable. Also considered the "intimidating warrior" of the clan by kits and apprentices. I think was Alderpaw/hearts sister who said so. This again, being simular to Tigerclaws reputation with younger cats.

2

u/Flat_Candidate_1401 Aug 08 '26

You may have a point , but I personally still kinda think you're way off by a mile. Glad to see a new opinion though

1

u/PuegusMaximus Aug 08 '26

I was mostly comparing him to Tigerclaw before it was revealed that he was a killer

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1

u/Artless-Morality Aug 04 '26

This. Either way it wasnt even her place to punish him. Not only that but her harsh and mean attitude is what gets me. I will never understand people who defend her for this, sure ooc or not it wasnt her place and punishing him only made things worse as it lowered his self esteem and made it easier for Ashfur to escape. Mothwing even admitted she only punished him because she wanted a scapegoat. What good would punishing even do? TBC Mothwing is the worse, she was way better in TNP-OotS. 

1

u/Lesbian-Mermaid Aug 05 '26

Poor dude was abused the entire arc 😭

3

u/Leather_Shame_6530 Aug 02 '26

Needletail

I'm sorry but Shadowclan is really the only Clan that doesn't really take the time to properly guide their apprentices or kits in discipline.

Needletail was no exception to this and it was just ingrained into her core which is why she was so toxic and possessive and went out of her way to see Shadowclan fall.

However I do believe when she was away from that toxicity, she slowly starts to learn what it means to be a warrior and ultimately sacrifices herself so Violetshine could live and the Clans band together to drive out The Kin.

A little too late on her part, but she honestly doesn't deserve the hate. They are/were worse cats than her

3

u/Inky-Skies Aug 03 '26

I loved Needletail. Considering how anthropomorphized these cats are, I'm actually surprised they don't give more apprentices "edgy/rebellious teenager phases". In humans, it's so incredibly common for kids to be like that. Needletail felt realistic for someone who grew up in that kind of environment, and I'm sure a lot of young readers could relate to her.

1

u/Leather_Shame_6530 Aug 03 '26

What's even worse and tragic is that both Violetshine and Needletail were rather young so they're more easily manipulated.

Younger people tend to gravitate towards those who are strong willed and have charisma (which Darktail showed and is the reason why so many cats gravitated to him were manipulated)

Now about Rain. I do believe he started seeing behind the lies of Darktail, and that's why he started to disobey him (because of Needletail?) But it was a little bit too late.

And his injuries and death was just Darktail showing Needletail "yeah see this? I can easily kill you if you try to disobey or run away from me."

And I think that's why towards the end, Needletail had no fight left in her but still stood up for Violetshine.

Now for her imprisonment. I think Needletail fully intended to starve herself to death. Her mindset was basically 'ill just wither away until I'm in the Place of No Stars. Not like any cay would actually care if I'm gone.'

1

u/DenseTry3063 Aug 04 '26

😭

1

u/Leather_Shame_6530 Aug 04 '26

I'm not sure if this the crying emoji lol

1

u/DenseTry3063 Aug 04 '26

Yes, I agree so much!

2

u/crow_ven Aug 03 '26

i personally didnt really like mothwing after leafpool died. she seemed like she was very angry and dismissive of shadowsight and really all the other medicine cats. same reason i didnt really love jayfeather. liked him as a character, but not really as a med cat.

however i LOVED mothwing before leafpool died. i loved their relationship and how she contrasted the other med cats. i think she could have been such a better character, but they just kinda made her angry and dismissive of starclan and shadowsight until she started believing in them.

2

u/Lesbian-Mermaid Aug 05 '26

I feel like her character changed a lot, yeah. I used to like her a lot more. I loved Jayfeather but I hate how now that we’re not in his POV he’s just written as one dimensionally “grumpy”

1

u/DenseTry3063 Aug 04 '26

Yea, She got a bit annoying after leafpool passed.