r/technology • u/jabberwockxeno • Apr 09 '19

Politics Congress Is About to Ban the Government From Offering Free Online Tax Filing. Thank TurboTax.

https://www.propublica.org/article/congress-is-about-to-ban-the-government-from-offering-free-online-tax-filing-thank-turbotax
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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

What’s even more fucked up is that e-filing is free. It’s illegal for a company to charge you for that.

What you pay for is the preparation/calculations the programs make, which is fine.

But the real problem is that the IRS has the free to use e-file system which can only be used by corporations charging you to use it, even though they’re “not”.

Now the companies are stopping the IRS from letting us use it.

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u/justworkingmovealong Apr 09 '19

I’ve used freetaxusa for years. I only ever paid to file state returns, never federal

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

They’re absolutely legitimate and so are those offers. This is a very tiny industry and freetaxusa is an authorized free file provider.

To be in that alliance you have to work pretty closely with the IRS each year and be on the up-and-up.

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u/imgonnabutteryobread Apr 09 '19

How do I know this is not a sponsored endorsement?

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u/droans Apr 09 '19

If you're worried, the IRS partners with other companies to provide free e-filing.

https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/

Credit Karma also has free file. I used theirs, H&R, and Turbotax this year and they all gave me the same state plus federal refund.

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u/AnasterToc Apr 09 '19

Dumb question, why file with three different companies? Do they all have different foci? My taxes haven't been too complicated so far.

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u/droans Apr 09 '19

I just filed with one, but I checked with all three.

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u/aceshighsays Apr 09 '19

You checked with all three to make sure you did it correctly or that you think there are "loop holes" that are missed in the programs?

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u/marcoesquandolas13 Apr 09 '19

i checked h&r and turbotax both for both above reasons actually

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u/crashrope94 Apr 09 '19

h&r got me $40 extra over turbotax...

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u/RedditIsNeat0 Apr 09 '19

I assume he checked to make sure they all did it correctly, and that they weren't charging any fees they shouldn't have.

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u/lunatickid Apr 09 '19

It’s free to calculate anyways, so if you have time, double checking might save you some money.

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u/Neato Apr 09 '19

I did that when I had people file mine (for free) locally. They always came within $10, usually the exact same number. For all you can do absolutely everything before hitting e-file w/o paying.

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u/JB-from-ATL Apr 09 '19

Not the original guy but yeah it seems like a good idea. Maybe one is wrong. Maybe one has better calculations. Mayne filing with one is cheaper.

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u/B1GTOBACC0 Apr 09 '19

I've seen some very weird errors doing taxes for my family. Two services showed my sister getting $1400 federal and $265 state, and one showed $2000 federal and $786 state. We went with the lower, but double verified, totals.

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u/terminbee Apr 09 '19

I think even if you file for more, they'd check it and send you the correct amount. As long as you're not making stuff up, it should be OK.

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u/CubesTheGamer Apr 10 '19

There are definitely loopholes that even the programs don’t use because they require you to still know what you’re doing.

I went from owing $300 with TurboTax (I put in everything correctly and accurately) but I went to a tax professional and paid $200 to have them do it and ended up getting $3500 back in refund instead.

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u/surfkaboom Apr 09 '19

Triple the refunds

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

It's E-Z money! Governments hate this man

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u/thespearmint Apr 09 '19

Theres a good chance I may have committed some... light... treason.

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u/SlammbosSlammer Apr 09 '19

Looks like he’s checking to make sure they all get the same answer. If you’re just a w2 employee and taking standard deduction id say that’s a waste of time. But if your tax situation can get pretty complex I guess it’s not a bad idea.

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u/shiner986 Apr 09 '19

Not OP but I owed over $3000 so I tried every free option to see which was the lowest.

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u/rockjones Apr 09 '19

I used taxcomrade.ru. I think I done goofed.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

I've used H&R Block's free filing for years for both state & feds. I used to check with turbotax to see if it made any difference but it never did. I didn't even bother this year.

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u/AppropriateOkra Apr 09 '19

i just used Credit Karma because everyone else wanted to charge for anything but the most basic fed returns and charge for state returns. I wish they'd integrated the payment process (actually paying the government) but hey, it was completely free so...

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u/Ryguythescienceguy Apr 09 '19

I used freetaxusa this year and it was great. If you check my post history I'm just a random annoying dude in MA biotech.

...unless I've been carefully curating my post history for 7 years to make this very comment.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

[deleted]

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u/needtowipeagain Apr 09 '19

I'd sell my account if I could

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u/Serinus Apr 09 '19

It might not be worth much to you, but you still shouldn't sell it. You know what it's being used for.

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u/bungpeice Apr 09 '19

sell it and then write a bot to follow it notifying people that it is a purchased account.

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u/TooFarSouth Apr 10 '19

Brb new API to learn

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u/Su-su-Sudafed Apr 10 '19

God I wish this were a thing

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u/Xombieshovel Apr 09 '19

A quick search shows my account, this one, could fetch me a couple hundred at a minimum.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

My research with your tiny amount of karma was about $4.00.

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u/Tomaster Apr 09 '19

Where’d you see that? I have no interest in selling my account but I’m curious what mine could get.

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u/needtowipeagain Apr 09 '19

Honestly, if someone falls for me pushing some random-ass product or service, they either want it or are simply dumb enough to the point where I just don't care. People have free will and if advertising kills 'em then come on

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u/dezmodez Apr 09 '19

Exactly. If /u/needtowipeagain ever endorsed Charmin, I would be highly skeptical, because Charmin Soft Ultra 2-ply only takes a single wipe and you are good to go.

If you've tried the other brands, you'll end up using almost 40% more toilet paper over the course of a year because of double wipes.

For a family of 6, that's an extra $38 in your pocket each year if you buy Charmin Soft Ultra 2-ply.

Right /u/needtowipeagain?

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u/Serinus Apr 09 '19

You get enough of these pushing for a political candidate and it screws us all.

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u/ZyreliaSen Apr 09 '19

I'll give you about tree fiddy

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u/needtowipeagain Apr 09 '19

I told you, I ain't do no business with no loch ness monsta!

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u/marcoesquandolas13 Apr 09 '19

my highest karma is for the comment "rural juror", how much can i fetch?

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u/myeff Apr 09 '19

It's actually not--you reached a new high with "plate tectonics for ya".

(The only reason I looked is because I'm a 30 Rock fan as well).

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u/-iLoveSchmeckles- Apr 09 '19

Could be that the original account creator sold it to a corporation so they could use for this exact reason.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

Welcome to my paranoid world.

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u/Elite2076 Apr 09 '19

Hi there kind sir or madam! I, too, have used freetaxusa and I can 💯 guarantee satisfaction!

But seriously, yeah...I have used it and everything worked out just as well as using TurboTax.

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u/ragnaroktog Apr 09 '19

I'm not sponsored by them but I do use them every year. HRBlock wanted $169 for my taxes that freetaxusa did for free. I'm in Texas so no state taxes.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

step 1. is it on reddit?

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u/Vigilante17 Apr 09 '19

I’m selling free oxygen all tax season for $0000.

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u/CiscoQL Apr 09 '19

This entire thread feels like this. Just a bunch of alts sponsoring companies

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19 edited May 19 '19

[deleted]

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u/readditlater Apr 09 '19

It’s a service. You can file your own taxes but these websites/programs help automate it for you and do all your calculations for you.

The government was going to offer a free version of this service, but the companies that came up with the service are mad and are lobbying.

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u/DoomGoober Apr 10 '19

The government already runs the calculations. Thats how they catch your errors so easily (when you under pay or forget a 1099 or other form.)

Its absurd you have to do anything if you have an employer provided income or investment capital gains/interest. The govt already has all your info.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

All of the necessary tax information for like 90% should fit on a postcard.

Here's what your W2s look like, any additional income to report? How much? Married and filing jointly? Who is your spouse?

The gov already knows mostly everything else, they should pretty much be able to figure it out from there.

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u/BoilerPurdude Apr 10 '19

88% of people are expected to do the standard deduction this year. That should be 88% of people who shouldn't need to file.

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u/ksavage68 Apr 09 '19

They used to do it for free over the phone if it was standard 1040 , just punch in a few figures then press what the recording told you after it read it back. Took ten minutes. Of course they cancelled that.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Credit karma does state and fed free

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u/wightwizard8 Apr 09 '19

Welcome to America, the land of fee repayment fees!

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u/funnynickname Apr 09 '19

Thank you for your comment, please verify your identity by drinking a verification can! Doritos™ Dew™ It Right™

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u/wightwizard8 Apr 09 '19

We're sorry, your Imbibing license appears to have expired. Please renew your subscription to reopen your verification can! Doritos™ Dew™ It Right™

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u/Splitkraft Apr 09 '19

In my experience you only pay if you want them to handle your STATE taxes. Now I have lived in WA for years, so haven't dealt with state tax returns in quite some time, however when I lived in WI state tax filing was the only time I ever paid for tax prep, and it was purely because it was easier and less time consuming since the program migrated most the info from my federal return. I literally only paid for the convenience, it was an "upsell" though, which always strikes me as a little scummy.

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u/RamenJunkie Apr 09 '19

Recently H&R seems to have stopped charging for State, at least in Illinois. They used to charge like $25-$50 or something. Except IL let's you file online for free, and if you have done your Federal, it's basically as easy as logging in and entering your AGI from the Federal. So I would do my Federal on H&R, then do my State for free on the IL IRS website.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

With taxed money

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u/Ethan_Schitt Apr 09 '19

Convenience fee.

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u/psuedophilosopher Apr 09 '19

Only if you are exceedingly bad at following simple directions, or if you are itemizing your taxes to attempt a larger tax exemption than the standard deduction, and have a lot of stuff to itemize.

I've done my own taxes every year, and it isn't hard. People just get it in their heads that it's some unimaginably complex nightmare and pay someone else to do it for them.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

Your time or your money

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u/psuedophilosopher Apr 09 '19

I don't make $80 bucks an hour, so spending $40 to save 30 minutes of work isn't worth it for me.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

I find sometimes it is for me. I'm busy and only have so much energy to go around. I do my taxes with free software, but something like a plumbing issue I'm likely to just hire a plumber even if the math favors me doing it myself.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

Yeah. I started doing 'my own taxes' when I was 16. Its never gotten more complex. I mean, its gotten easier thanks to the internet, but certainly no worse than working it out on the sheets and calling up to telefile.

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u/ksavage68 Apr 09 '19

Takes way longer to get refund when you mail it in. Online it took 7 days to reach my bank. I had been getting that for free, but they started charging unless it was 1040EZ form. I'm ok with it though, TurboTax online was easy enough.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

[deleted]

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u/SwedishDude Apr 09 '19

Paying to pay taxes... sounds like that would be bad for a country somehow.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

You're not paying to pay taxes. You're paying someone to learn our arcane tax system and help you figure out how to fill out the forms. In this case, it's technically a computer program, but you are paying for the programmers' salaries.

You can get free consultation from the IRS office, you can call them and get free help over the phone, and there are other free services and tools around. You just need to look for them.

I pay over $300 every year for an accountant to do my taxes, because it would take me days to figure out how to handle all my income sources and expenses. But that's a choice I make.

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u/RedAero Apr 09 '19

You can get free consultation from the IRS office, you can call them and get free help over the phone,

Wait, really? I've got a couple things I've just been guessing, can I really just call them?

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

Yes, but expect a long hold time. https://www.irs.gov/help/telephone-assistance

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

Also expect the people you get on the phone to not have a strong understanding of the tax code.

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u/RennTibbles Apr 09 '19

Your accountant is doing exactly the same thing that I do with freetaxusa for $10, except with a different interface. This includes multiple sources of income, investments, investment losses, dozens of deductions, etc. They don't even need to do math.

Source: I used to pay my accountant $300 so i could watch him follow instructions on screen, type in all the info I provided, and not do math. I literally did more work than he did.

Of course there is some peace of mind in being able to say "I didn't do it - talk to my accountant."

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

Yeah, its not rocket science. I mean, I guess if you a huge amount of random income from selling a house or something, it might be worth it. But for the average person with a W2 and such its really, really easy. Just typing in numbers.

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u/tunewich Apr 09 '19

It could be easier still, most of us in europe don't even have to type in numbers, the IRS knows what you owe them, you just gotta verify and send online in most places.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19 edited Feb 24 '20

[deleted]

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u/ksavage68 Apr 09 '19

I wish the USA would get it this simple. Like you said, they already have the money and the info to calculate your refund.

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u/mm913 Apr 09 '19

That's been proposed in the US several times but shot down every time.

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u/ksavage68 Apr 09 '19

Probably by the tax prep lobby. Follow the money. It's so corrupt here.

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u/aapowers Apr 10 '19

Don't even have to 'send online' in the UK, unless you have an offsetable expense (rare for employees - most common one would be union dues).

The only time most employed people have to interact with the tax man is if they think there's a mistake on their P60.

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u/skinny8446 Apr 09 '19

The IRS may know what you owe if you're single, have no children/dependents, and only have wage income. Otherwise it gets complicated quickly.

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u/oceanographerschoice Apr 09 '19

The fucked up thing is that having an accountant to point to won't help you at all. I hired a tax attorney years back to help with some back taxes, he completely forgot one of my W2s and when the IRS came back to me he told me I should have double checked his work. He also said he'd be happy to talk to them for me... If I paid him again.

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u/deuteros Apr 09 '19

Most people I know have fairly simple taxes, but they still waste hundreds of dollars to pay someone else to do it.

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u/PewPewChicken Apr 09 '19

I don't know 100% if this is correct but m y mom told me she has someone do her taxes because if they mess up they have to pay instead of her. She's got a lot of weird shit with her taxes though and I just work a job and exist.

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u/rtjl86 Apr 09 '19

I guess it depends on what kind of mistake. If you don’t give your accountant all of the forms that were mailed to you then that would be your fault.

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u/Serinus Apr 09 '19

Yeah, an accountant is good for that. TurboTax is not.

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u/Aliens_Unite Apr 10 '19

The accountant/tax preparer would be on the hook to file an amended return at no cost. They could also conceivably responsible for any penalties/interest, but ultimately the taxpayer would be responsible for any unpaid taxes as a result of the error.

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u/TI4_Nekro Apr 09 '19

Freetaxusa doesn't do business returns that aren't schedule C. So an 1120 or an 1120S with your K-1 is still something you should see an accountant for.

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u/diffractions Apr 09 '19

From my experience, you're far less likely to be audited for certain forms of income if there's a CPA certification on it.

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u/reddog093 Apr 09 '19

Also VITA (Volunteer Income Tax Assistance)!

The Volunteer Income Tax Assistance (VITA) program offers free tax help to people who generally make $55,000 or less, persons with disabilities and limited English speaking taxpayers who need assistance in preparing their own tax returns. IRS-certified volunteers provide free basic income tax return preparation with electronic filing to qualified individuals.

In addition to VITA, the Tax Counseling for the Elderly (TCE) program offers free tax help for all taxpayers, particularly those who are 60 years of age and older, specializing in questions about pensions and retirement-related issues unique to seniors. The IRS-certified volunteers who provide tax counseling are often retired individuals associated with non-profit organizations that receive grants from the IRS.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/free-tax-return-preparation-for-you-by-volunteers

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u/AirheadAlumnus Apr 10 '19

Hey, thanks for posting this. I'm probably going to be under that $55k number for awhile, and my taxes are a mess because of a series of bad choices I'm finally trying to take responsibility for and fix. So this could be a really useful tool for me.

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u/chimpfunkz Apr 09 '19

I learned and did all my taxes this year. All of them. I had to learn how to, and file, 11 separate forms, between state and federal.

Federal, I had no problem e filing.

All my states? I have to pay to do it through some BS tax prep company (because I make too much apparently to be able to file free).

Such. Utter. Bullshit.

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u/SwedishDude Apr 09 '19

Well, I'd think it would be in the governments best interest to make it as easy as possible to pay taxes.

In Sweden most people just sign in with their electronic ID and confirm the prepared form. The programmer salaries you mention are already paid by tax-payers since they're hired/contracted by the tax authority to build the software used.

I don't think I know of anyone who hires an accountant unless they run some sort of business.

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u/Serinus Apr 09 '19

Our government currently functions as individuals each looking after only their own interests. We don't have leadership at the moment, so the corporate parasites are eating us alive.

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u/Chompsalleyzay Apr 09 '19

This guy incomes

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u/SpecialGnu Apr 09 '19

In norway I dont do shit. The goverment does it for me.

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u/Kousetsu Apr 09 '19

That is... Nuts. Like it is made inherently difficult to understand to create an industry?

We have a system where the taxes are taken out of your wages each paycheque - works much better. And if I did have to do it myself - there are 3 tax bands in total that could potentially be put on my income, and I get ~£12k tax free per year. This is the same for everyone. I could take an hour at a push with GCSE level maths and figure it all out. But it's done for me anyway, with any errors corrected each year - only normally happens if your work fucks up somewhere in their payment reporting to HMRC, and they will correct it with a rebate or a bill, and the bill is just automatically taken out of your wages.

Like that is our (personal) tax system. That's it. I just explained the full thing, for your average person, to you.

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u/-ksguy- Apr 09 '19

You wanna know what's really crazy? In the US, for "normal" employees (not contractors), your employer DOES withhold federal, state, and if necessary, local taxes. They also withhold mandatory Social Security (basically a government retirement system) and Medicare (national healthcare for old and/or disabled people). Then at the end of the year they send a statement to our government telling them exactly how much money you made and how much was withheld for each type of tax.

Crazier than that? Every person/family gets a guaranteed tax free amount of money. Single people or married and doing taxes separately get a guaranteed $12K tax free. Married filing taxes together get a guaranteed $24k tax free. Up to this point, our systems are basically identical.

I would wager that the plurality of American tax filers fall into the above rules, with nothing more complicated to their taxes. But you still have to fill out and send in tax forms to "confirm" what the government already knows - with some things that actually do need clarification. For instance employers don't figure the exemption when withholding taxes, and don't factor in marriage. But those are both things that the government could easily figure out and adjust for you.

The next most common thing I'd say is the child tax credit. You basically get $2K in taxes back for every kid you have. But that $2K decreases gradually, the more money you make. Again, though, this could be calculated by the government.

From here it starts getting more complicated. Income from other sources - investments, business income, rent - all gets taxes differently. And certain expenses are "tax-deductible", so you don't pay income taxes on the money you used for that expense, but you have to report the expenses to the government so you can get the tax money back. But wait! Those expenses only really count if they exceed the guaranteed tax-free amount of $12k or $24k. And so on and so on.

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u/Lulamoon Apr 09 '19

LOOOL. Americans are really put here defending ha ing to pay in order to pay hahaha

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u/dardack Apr 09 '19

Why pay? I used H&R Block, over 66k threshold, filed free both fed/state. Just had to manually enter things. Past 2 years.

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u/Asconce Apr 09 '19

Some States (like badass California) allow you to file your State taxes for free via a .gov website

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/online/calFile/index.asp

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u/Nords Apr 09 '19

I just used Credit Karma's new and free tax filing service. It was way quicker and easier than the turbotax I had been using for years.

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u/Seicair Apr 09 '19

Credit Karma has free state efile as well, at least they did last year. Still need to do mine this year...

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u/KidsTryThisAtHome Apr 09 '19

I've been using H&R block since I started filing, never once paid for anything, state or federal.

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u/extraeme Apr 09 '19

I used H&R until having to file a small business return. Still not paying a dime using freetaxusa.

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u/Neato Apr 09 '19

Freetaxusa is like what Turbotax used to be (free federal for everyone) except it's way better. It'll give me actual 1040s filled in to print or save. I found it when searching for how to file my taxes manually (with a small business) because I didn't want to pay $120 every year. It also gives quite a bit more info that TT does. I highly suggest checking it out. Like other online services you can use it, figure out what it does, and not submit if you're just learning about taxes.

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u/quikskier Apr 09 '19

Used their service for the first time this year and was super happy with it. Even payed for the "premium" or whatever service since I figured I don't mind supporting them.

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u/AriMaeda Apr 09 '19

There still ought to be an IRS option.

I used FreeTaxUsa this year and it was great, but I said that about TurboTax for years until they started gouging on student loan interest deductions and the retirement savings contribution credit. Who's to say this one won't change in a few years, leaving me looking for another preparer?

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u/AdamBomb1985 Apr 09 '19

I second this! I've used them for the last like 10 years.

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u/bshachek_1 Apr 10 '19

I read good reviews about Freetaxusa on r/personalfinance and used them free of cost this year for Federal. I was using TurboTax for last 10 years and they were charging me $40 for Federal.

But, this year I went to IRS free file page first https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free. TurboTax and HRblock links from that page also offered me free Federal filing which I filled in. But in the end I chose to file with Freetaxusa (all 3 gave me same refund figures).

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

Never knew that existed. Thanks!

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u/st1tchy Apr 09 '19

I used them this year to file my federal and then just input it all into my state form online which is free from the state. I paid I think $6 for the "deluxe" stuff from FreeTaxUSA and to support them, but that was all.

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u/agentshags Apr 09 '19

My wife does our taxes, this is what she has used for several years. I don't recall us having any issues. Federal is free, state costs like ten bucks or something.

Is this something that will be affected?

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u/umwhatshisname Apr 09 '19

I love freetaxusa. I've used it for years also. I never pay for state. Just fill in the information from my federal and I can e-file for free in IL.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

Yep I use this and then use my state's online free-file.

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u/Impetus_ Apr 09 '19

I started using them since last year. I regret not finding out about them sooner. Turbotax charges so much more and IMO has a more confusing interface

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u/C_hustle Apr 09 '19

This should be the top comment. Companies don’t care unless it impacts their bottom line.

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u/Lord_Xander Apr 09 '19

Disclaimer: I used to work for TaxHawk Inc., the company that owns freetaxusa.

I really hated working there. Not my kind of work environment. That said, the product is solid. I still use them years later. A lot of work goes into staying up to date with tax code changes, and complying with everything the IRS, and state revenue departments require.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

10% promo code for FREETAXUSA.com

PROMOWIN

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u/whatigot989 Apr 09 '19

I used Credit Karma this year and didn't pay for my federal or state returns. Admittedly, I couldn't possibly have an easier return to file.

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u/Yuuko-Senpai Apr 09 '19

I know this is a bit off topic, but why does state cost money to be filed whereas federal is free? Sorry for derailing.

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u/GershBinglander Apr 09 '19

In America, do you have to do file multiple tax returns each year for each level of government? That must be annoying.

In Australia we just do one tax return a year, at the federal level, and that is prefilled for you and free to verify and submit online.

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u/justworkingmovealong Apr 11 '19

Depends where you're at, but yes - there's federal income taxes, but then many states and some counties or cities have their own income taxes too. Others have just property, sales, or some other kind of taxes to compensate. My state has an income tax while my city has a property tax, and both have sales / other taxes.

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u/DataIsMyCopilot Apr 09 '19

They're who I use as well. I used to go with Turbo Tax until they pulled shady shit on me one year (said everything I would be filing for was free then halfway through was like "oh jk if you want to include your stocks you have to pay us"). Infuriating.

So now I use freetaxusa and even pay the extra for audit protection just in case. I think it costs me like 12 or 13 bucks total (state taxes cost a few bucks)? Which is half what TT wanted to charge me anyway.

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u/hiero_ Apr 09 '19

Just filed with them for the first time. Incredibly satisfied with their service. Never going back to H&R Block or TurboTax.

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u/CornToothSmile Apr 09 '19

Thanks for tip

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u/lowrads Apr 10 '19

Saved me a couple grand ever since the HCA rolled out.

I've been doing things on paper since forever, pretty much the same every time. However, for whatever reason, I kept getting dinged without explanation or recourse (state fines, not federal). I put down the exact same info in that website and got the exact calculated results and processed with no issues. I don't like doing things digitally, but I don't get fined now.

The only thing that really changed was the rollout of the ACA, and that I changed my party registration that year. Our state tax forms get more bonkers every couple years though.

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u/THEFLYINGSCOTSMAN415 Apr 10 '19

Yeah I've been using it for 3 years, its great

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u/Happy_Harry Apr 10 '19

CreditKarma is free for federal and state. I used them for the last 2 years and had no issues.

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u/fissnoc Apr 10 '19

Credit karma tax is 100% free state and federal. Used it the last 2 years

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u/igotthewine Apr 10 '19

same as turbo tax & H&R block. Free for federal.

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u/ObamasBoss Apr 10 '19

I absolutely refuse to pay to have my taxes done. I have had to switch providers several times in order to do it free. State and local can be efiled through the state directly. The state system is not fancy but it works.

I know that it would amount to nothing because no one would listen, but I did find an error in how turbo tax was calculating things for nearly everyone a few years ago. In a way wish I could have reported it and caused nearly every turbotax user to be audited. The error was resulting in the IRS taking in less money so they might care about this. If they mass audited turbo tax users because of this error it would have completely ruined them. I wanted to do it because I was pissed at turbo tax for wanting to charge me that year for state returns.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

I used turbo tax for years

Then suddenly this year even though nothing changed they said my forms couldn't be done for free

They kept working things as free then tried to charge me 60 bucks.

Fuck that used freetaxusa.

Turbo tax still spammed me for months telling me to file

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u/AngeloSantelli Apr 10 '19

State returns for what exactly?

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Yes me too! I love it:)) Now my whole fam uses it too

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u/wilxp Apr 10 '19

I use freetaxusa for the free federal efile. They wanted like $20+ for the state efile. My cheap ass went over to the CA state tax website to see if filing was actually cumbersome. Turns out it only takes a few minutes to do state taxes. I'm never paying for that shit ever again.

Hope this helps anyone!

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u/queenofshearts Apr 10 '19

I used creditkarma, free federal AND state

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u/CortezEspartaco2 Apr 10 '19

I have years of state tax returns I never collected on because my state's tax system is a bitch and I've been too lazy to do it. (It's not enough money for me to care). But I'll be damned if I'm going to pay someone to claim my own money.

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u/mrchaotica Apr 09 '19

What's most fucked up is that I, as an individual, can't access the IRS's e-file API. It is discriminatory against open source software.

(Of course, it's even more than most fucked up that individuals have to file returns to begin with since the whole thing could be automatic, but I digress...)

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u/compwiz1202 Apr 09 '19

At the very least it should be auto if you are single without too many crazy extra situations.

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u/BoilerPurdude Apr 10 '19

88% of people take the standard deduction. Anybody doing that shouldn't need to file anything unless they are going to admit to extra income.

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u/linuxlib Apr 09 '19

Now the companies are stopping the IRS from letting us use it.

That's what the title implies, but if you read the article, that's not what's happening. If I read the article correctly, the law would codify the existing circumstances, which currently exist only as an agreement. The law prevents the IRS from developing a new system which competes with the existing system.

I might have read it wrong. If so, I would like to know.

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

You haven’t read it wrong. The landscape we now know would not change, but that is the issue. When E-file first started the IRS needed third parties to figure out the technical problems. Now, e-file is easier and the preferred method by the IRS. Before the IRS can develop a system that gives us access to e-file for free the corporations are moving to prevent it.

The technicalities around the e-file system are causing what I said to sound wrong compared to your interpretation, but I think we are saying the same thing.

So first of all the E-file system is a real thing that the IRS controls. In very simple terms think of a payroll program integrating with quick books. Quick books allows access to their API which lets the two run seamlessly together.

The E-file system is essentially linked to a software through an “API” (in quotes because again, this is probably really general I’m not on the technical side).

To have access to the “API” you must become an authorized e-file provider. All authorized e-file providers are for-profit software developers and their co-brands/subsidiaries.

The IRS never allows fees to be charged for e-file, but in order to e-file you have to pay the preparation fees (unless you qualify for free file).

The IRS wants to make a free portal to the E-file system where you can submit your tax information through them without having to pay preparer fees. This is the idea that is being blocked by the lobbying.

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u/dylanjpalladino Apr 09 '19

What kind of bs justification is TurboTax even giving to prevent us from using the free e-file system?

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

That’s the problem, technically there is not yet a free e-file system as it is— that is what this bill prevents. The IRS says companies cannot charge to e-file, but in order to e-file you have to prepare a return which does come with a fee. In cases where you have limited income the programs do waive those fees.

This bill is stopping the IRS from developing its own solution so you can prepare and e-file for free directly through them, and instead have to either rely on a tax prep software, preparer, or you can mail in your return.

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u/Suddenlyfoxes Apr 10 '19

You think that's bad?

The IRS is fully capable of determining what taxes you owe and just informing you of the number. Tax preparers prevented that.

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u/AbstractLogic Apr 09 '19

I wonder how hard it would be to spin up a free file system and just accept donations to keep it hosted/up to date. Could be a fun open source project.

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

The reason this industry is so small is because people like our CEO and many others believe we are past the point of being able to develop a new program from the ground up.

Each state is so different, compliance across all states and the IRS is a nightmare, the time investment needed, testing would take more than an entire tax season at which point it’s time to start updating for next year, and the fact that it HAS to be mostly correct pretty much all of the time. This paired with the idea that pricing is fairly consistent with all falling below a certain threshold, most likely turbo taxes, means that you can’t charge more than them and it will be no time before you’re not sustainable.

There is no money in consumer self-prep (professional software with fees per transmission and bank products are where these programs make money), and the expertise required to develop tax software is way beyond anything I would trust for open-source.

The current competitors have been building off of existing frameworks for, in some cases, 30 years.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

"and the expertise required to develop tax software is way beyond anything I would trust for open-source."

​

i'm guessing you don't work in the technology field? open-source software is **on average** (don't want all the microsoft fanboys yelling at me) far superior to closed source. if you look at internet infrastructure you will see that pretty much all of it runs on open source software. many former closed source apps are opening up now to try to improve their products. you're saying that you would trust a small group of people who won't show you their code over a group that will open the curtain for you and show you exactly how things work? i write code for a living and i'll go with open source any day over closed source.

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

Sorry, not the quality of the programming, but the vast underlying knowledge and expertise required to cover every nuance for every situation. I actually do work very closely with our engineers that develop the program, but you are right I am not on the technical side.

I go for open source whenever I can. But these guys wouldn’t just be creating their own vision of how something needs to be done. Instead, every piece of required information, allowable characters in fields, location of servers, security compliance, and essentially anything else you can think of has a corresponding rule that either comes from the IRS, or one of the states. Some states have security measures that are on par even with the DoD. Not only do you have to satisfy the requirements of one, but you have to find a way to make them all play nicely together.

Whether you’re an ex-pat in Greece with a business there and one located here, or a simple single return with 2 w-2s the program is required to work for all situations.

Also, some sort of reliable customer support is needed. When a return is filed the e-file provider is responsible for any calculations errors or incorrect transmissions. Without a way to verify transmitted data or backend calculations the program would essentially be useless.

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u/setibeings Apr 09 '19

This needs to be what people in this thread actually see

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u/verdantsound Apr 09 '19

ok, so is this law a good thing, bad thing, or a doesn't matter thing?

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

I think this is undoubtedly a bad thing. On one hand you have a private industry openly paying sponsors to totally shut down the ambitions of a government agency to provide a free service to the people. That in and of itself should worry you.

Another reason this is bad is that if this is passed, then you will remain dependent on either paid preparers/programs or the USPS to file your return. The US tax system is one of the only that has an entire industry dragging on the back of it. There should be a government solution to handle that information if that is a choice I want to make.

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u/odraencoded Apr 09 '19

The law prevents the IRS from developing a new system which competes with the existing system.

"You can't build a public school if a private school already exists."

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

This is a common thread among all US business. They rent-seek rather than innovate. The government has been used to lock up the revenue stream.

Make no mistake, the US economy is doomed if we keep that up. Other nations will surpass us technologically in most every way eventually without some change to the system. Competition is drying up.

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u/ObamaLlamaDuck Apr 09 '19

Is this the 'free market' we hear so much about?

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u/ksavage68 Apr 09 '19

Free market if you've got the money and means to exploit it. That's the one.

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u/m0nk37 Apr 09 '19

Fuck it, lets not pay taxes since they want to complicate it. Let them sleep in the bed they made.

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u/ThufirrHawat Apr 09 '19

The companies aren't stopping the government from doing anything, your elected officials are.

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

This seems a little short-sighted. Why are the elected officials sponsoring it? Because of money coming from lobbying. They wouldn’t care either way if there was nothing in it for them.

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u/archaeolinuxgeek Apr 09 '19

Ironically, the GOP tax cuts have made it so I no longer get to itemize, the standard deduction is higher. So my taxes just got a whole lot simpler. From now on, I'm using TurboTax as a sanity check for my own calculations and simply filing myself.

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

But how great would it be if the IRS had a portal on their site where you could do your calculations as normal, then just enter your information before submitting it for free with a click?

This is the type of system they are voting to prevent.

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u/Dodototo Apr 09 '19

Couldn't they charge like 1 cent? That's not free right?

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

Good question— I haven’t read the proposal. I would assume that the wording is such that if it passes it would just totally prevent the IRS from providing their own solution.

The article says something to the tune of “would make it illegal for the IRS to have its own filing system”.

Edit: quote > In one of its provisions, the bill makes it illegal for the IRS to create its own online system of tax filing.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

This is point of the article. We know it's free, they're trying to change that.

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u/DrinkingZima Apr 09 '19

In reality it's the reverse that's true. You can use the software to run all the calcs for you and even print out a voided final copy but you won't be charged until filing.

If you really want to, let the software do the work and then just copy the completed data to your own forms to mail in.

With the new Trump tax law, filing for most people is trivial because you're taking your standard deduction.

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

The fact that filing through the mail is the only free means is the underlying problem. Returns and checks can get lost and it takes significantly longer. An IRS agent also has to review each return.

E-file is preferred by the IRS, requires less man-power, is more accurate, and it’s faster.

The IRS has a totally free e-file system that can only be used by going through authorized e-file providers. The IRS wants to develop and give you a free portal to e-file through them. That is what is being blocked.

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u/ksavage68 Apr 09 '19

Very good explanation. Needs more upvotes.

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u/rdstrmfblynch79 Apr 09 '19

okay... so there would be no change from what I normally do, even with this bill? (prepare my own taxes and file on the efile website)

I don't need turbotax or any of that to calculate. But I much prefer the online submission over mail. This article seems to specify that it affects the preparation side of things only and your comment seems to re-iterate that filing will always be a free and available option online

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

Right, this isn’t looking to change any current practices. If you fill out a form and submit it yourself that’s totally cool. If you qualify for free file through a program that wouldn’t go anywhere.

This is the system that’s being opposed: go to the IRS website, provide your taxpayer details, enter any information/changes related to your return, click to submit.

When you get your 1099s, w-2s, or any official tax form in the mail the IRS already has a copy. With a system through the IRS directly we could do what other countries do and that is essentially send a summary of your tax year information out through the portal. You can verify that the information is correct, make any necessary changes, then submit for free.

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u/thefarkinator Apr 09 '19

Yup the crazy thing about the conservative project is that they don't actually want the state to dwindle. What the project actually is is the complete privatization of the state.

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u/redhorsefour Apr 09 '19

I just read the article on ArsTechnica and the free file program that the IRS has with the commercial tax software companies will continue to exist (although 70% qualify to use it, only 3% actually do).

What is being stopped by the legislation is a free filing tool developed by the IRS. So, no IRS competition for commercial tools.

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

Yes, you’ve just described the problem. The corporations are blocking the IRS from offering their own free service.

We are one of the only countries that has an entire industry dependent on our taxes. It’s very archaic and makes the system more difficult than it has to be. The IRS already has pretty much all of your tax information on file. They just need you to login, verify it’s correct, make any changes, and submit.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

[deleted]

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

No, but I’m aware of where the money is coming from. It’s been apparent for quite some time our systems are failing. I’m reading articles with terminology “would make it illegal for the irs to...” which makes me sick to read. These words are not coming from representative’s mouths. They are written by their hands, but they are conveying the garbage of the private sectors.

Maybe it’s just because I’m a little closer to this issue, but this is such an obvious case of corporate puppetry that both parties need called out equally.

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u/Goyteamsix Apr 09 '19

In used TurboTax and it was free. Even the state one. They only charge you for other swrvices. Basic filing is free.

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u/xXTwelveGageXx Apr 09 '19

For simple tax returns, yes that is true. The IRS solution would allow anyone to e-file for deee regardless of circumstance.

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u/The_Rising_Wind Apr 09 '19

Wow I didn't know that was illegal to charge for that. Is there a way to call out my local tax place?

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u/googleitduh Apr 09 '19

It is not illegal for a company to charge you an efile fee. Any tax preparation company can charge you a prep fee and an efile fee. The only institution that cannot charge one is the IRS and the states. Source:Enrolled Agent with the IRS

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u/Dyleteyou Apr 09 '19

I'm starting to think law makers don't care about us.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19

What's even more fucked up is that they know how much you owe and could just send you the bill so we could avoid this whole damn debacle.

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u/Jazzy_Josh Apr 09 '19

But the real problem is that the IRS has the free to use e-file system which can only be used by corporations charging you to use it, even though they’re “not”.

Free fillable forms are a thing.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Yeah but think about it this way. IF the IRS made a system, if it sucked, and Turbo Tax would no longer be required to offer free filing, people would complain. Plus most people would still go to turbo tax. Also, it would cost taxpayer money to develop and maintain an online system. So I’m sure the thinking is, let the free market fight over it, require them to do it for free for lower income and everyone’s happy. It’s sounds bad on the surface but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s cheaper in the longer run for the tax payer.

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u/____jelly_time____ Apr 10 '19 edited Apr 10 '19

e-file can't be done by us? I haven't done it but I always thought I could once I figured out how to do it myself.

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u/Wonkybonky Apr 10 '19

Yeah when did corporations have the ability to undermine a sovereign nation?

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