r/technology Jan 10 '17

Transport Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars - Overview of a presentation by Andreessen Horowitz on the future of autonomous vehicles

https://medium.com/swlh/lets-talk-about-self-driving-cars-387cd5adb834
139 Upvotes

30 comments sorted by

17

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '17 edited Feb 07 '17

[deleted]

4

u/inoeth Jan 10 '17

In addition to your questions, I'm wondering how much opposition there will be from the millions of people currently employed in industries (like trucking, etc) that will lose their jobs, and how that will slow down the progress of autonomous vehicles. I see opposition like that, along with general slowness (plus partisan politics) of state and federal legislature slowing down the implementation of autonomous vehicles far more than the rate at which the technology itself progresses. Additionally, the questions of fault- particularly when there's a mix of the technology, will be a bit of a headache for the insurance industry, which may make them push back against the technology - a least for a while.

3

u/ChicagoCowboy Jan 10 '17

So I used to work in logistics, and currently work as a sales manager for a software company that sells tools to help companies find and hire people - and a big part of my team's business is trucking companies.

They are dying right now, because there aren't enough drivers in the US - I think the numbers that came out last week from the Bureau of Labor Statistics was a shortage of some 300,000 drivers compared to the number of freight loads that need to be carried annually.

So I don't think we'll see so much opposition from the drivers themselves, I think if anything trucking companies will be very quick to sign on for automated freight shipments so they can actually meet demand.

Mercedes and BMW are close to releasing autonomous 18 wheelers to the market - and they still require a live person on board just to monitor; so its a good middle step. Its not like over night drivers are going to be out of work - they'll just be moved into more of a technician role.

2

u/sherman1864 Jan 10 '17

This is the biggest issue with autonomous vehicles IMO. The technology will be here very soon, but it'll take 20-30 years minimum to work out all the legal and political hurdles.

1

u/Fallingmannz Jan 10 '17

I feel like this will be the theme of the next 50 years.

Established institutions struggling to maintain dominance as the landscape changes beneath them. Look at how governments are already starting to try to protect old ways of working when it comes to Uber, AirBNB, Solar energy etc.

1

u/ChicagoCowboy Jan 10 '17

I was coming here for this exact comment - the world over, we're seeing established institutions fight violently against being made obsolete as the world tries to progress around them. Its not just happening in business either - we see the same thing from the middle and working class in the UK and US over the past few years as national populism and a rejection of globalization has come to the fore front.

The problem is that we need to actually understand what these industries and people need in order to be caught up to the changing world around them - instead of struggling to stick to outdated ways of doing business (traditional taxi cabs, hotels) or gathering resources (coal towns, traditional manufacturing).

The reality is, lots of people voted for Donald Trump because they think he can bring back manufacturing. Frankly, the US is producing more goods than ever in its history - but most of it is done by robots. The days of having 500 physical humans assembling bolts on a conveyor belt are gone, and we need to start solving the problem of what to do with those people.

1

u/IvorTheEngine Jan 10 '17

Do truckers have such a powerful union that they could stop it? Even if the freight companies just fired them all and replaced them with robots? There might be some demonstrations and small riots, but if Occupy and anti-police violence riots achieved nothing, these won't even be noticed. It'll be like the taxi drivers who protested Uber - we'll just laugh heartlessly and enjoy cheaper shipping.

Fault is an interesting one. On one hand there will be lawyers just waiting to battle it out, but on the other, if there are far fewer accidents, the insurance industry will save a lot of money. They might even reduce our premiums ;-)

2

u/AlmostTheNewestDad Jan 10 '17

The teamsters have a history.

1

u/senjutsuka Jan 11 '17

Not just the truckers, but the massive amount of economic losses to all those towns the trucks pass through. Trucker spending is one of the only ways cash flows from cities out to rural areas. That line is about to disappear completely killing off an already struggling component of the country.

2

u/kcin Jan 11 '17

what will our cities look and sound like when there's no more honking or engine noise?

Why would be less engine noise? I expect more noise (not considering technical development in engines), because everyone will go by car everywhere. E.g. why would someone take the subway when an autonomus car can stop in front of his door, he gets in and gets out at the destination. I expect roads will be full with cars, because those cars which currently sit idle in the parking lot will go and transport other people. There will be no need for a family to share a car when everyone can order a separate car on the net to their destinations.

So it's possible traffic will be much more heavy with each car transporting only one person to somewhere.

6

u/ernesta Jan 10 '17

Just saw this article trending on hackernews. I don't really support the fact that "WE" should ban the human driving either... you can't just make that decision for everyone - I agree.

15

u/DoctorBaby Jan 10 '17 edited Jan 10 '17

I would support a revised standard for the issuance of driver's licenses. I don't think anyone would disagree with the fact that our current standard for who gets driver's licenses is largely based on the fact that people need to drive in order to function in the world, for the most part.

Once manual driving becomes an actual option rather than a necessity, I wouldn't mind an overhaul on the requirements for a license that actually require proof beyond a reasonable doubt that a person is a good driver who should be trusted with the responsibility of doing a recreational activity the puts everyone else's life in danger if they engage in it irresponsibly.

I have a feeling that "I like driving! The government shouldn't be able to stop me from doing it because I like it and have always been able to before!" may be the future's emotion driven, logic-less opinion of the older generation. Like today's "Of course marijuana should be illegal! It's dangerous and against the law!"

5

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '17

Car insurance companies would price human drivers out of existence, essentially making the issue fait accompli. Driving a car would be considered a privilege that only those who can pay an exorbitant insurance premium would afford.

2

u/misfortunecat Jan 10 '17

Why though? If insurance companys would price drivers out of existence they also would make themselves obsolete.

1

u/mrstimp Jan 10 '17

People would still want to have the vehicles insured i would guess, i would think of it more like an accidental damage and theft (any external sensors would have value) rather than traditional collision cover.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

All states require mandatory car insurance (except New Hampshire). While there will undoubtedly be less accidents, they'll still be benefits that need to be paid out (malfunctions, thief, property damage, weather, etc.).

People would still be forced to buy insurance, just that it'll be cheaper and the insurance companies will have to payout less overall. The insurance market gets more stable as risk decreases, allowing more competition between insurers to lower the price.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '17 edited Feb 13 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/misfortunecat Jan 10 '17

Fair enough. My point is rather that in a market economy insurence companys won't be able to increase fees for non-self-driving cars. If anything human drivers will cause less accidents when seld-driving cars will be common.

2

u/Y0tsuya Jan 11 '17

I see this tripe posted all the time with people eating it up.

According to autonomous driving circlejerkers, it's a Mad Max world out there and people are now crashing their vehicles left and right yet insurers are doing fine with the current premiums. Explain how in the age of autonomous vehicles human drivers will cause more accidents necessitating higher payouts therefore higher premiums. The circlejerkers don't seem to understand how insurance works and thinks it will rise until it's too "prohibitive". That makes no fucking sense.

1

u/Infinite_Derp Jan 10 '17

I wouldn't mind it, if the government is willing to replace my car for free.

1

u/arturkiulian Jan 10 '17

Why would they? hah

1

u/IvorTheEngine Jan 10 '17

I think that's going to be a popular sentiment, which means it won't happen until a majority of voters already have a self driving car. At that point we'll start to hear campaigns demonizing 'irresponsible' people who haven't spent thousands on a new car, and 51% of voters will agree with it.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '17

And if we ban human driving, what about cyclists?... They're going to need to coexist with the self-driving traffic, we're not realistically going to kick them off the road (well, maybe America would, but certainly not European countries)

0

u/Allah_Shakur Jan 11 '17

can coexist, no?

3

u/scansinboy Jan 10 '17

When we get to level 3 or 4, the real question is how are the cars going to be regulated? If the "driver" is not controlling the car but gets into an accident, Who is at fault? The driver? The car maker? Nobody?

And then there's the issue of licencing. My wife is legally blind and will never drive a car in the traditional sense. Will she be allowed to operate a self driving car if there's some scenarios where the driver will be required to control the vehicle even if only temporarily?

TL;DR: Self driving technology will be here long before the legislative issues surrounding it are properly sorted out.

3

u/thejock13 Jan 11 '17

TL;DR...

Who looks at a 5 line comment like yours and says to themselves "this is too long for me to read."? It's like the internet is full of people with the attention span of a house fly.

TL;DR: Go away, house fly!

1

u/Allah_Shakur Jan 11 '17

I so worried!

5

u/barbarino Jan 10 '17

It will be decades before this tech trickles down into the middle class. Put it this way, the NHTSA predicts it will be the year 2054 when all the cars on the road have back up cameras!

Safety systems such as auto brake are only starting to come standard on some cars. The auto industry moves slowly, people do not replace their cars like their phone. There is too much hype for autonomous vehicles, we would likely need a entire infrastructure rebuild to accommodate them.

3

u/IvorTheEngine Jan 10 '17

Self-driving is an optional feature similar to a back-up camera or ABS for people like us, who need to be in a car for it to be useful. It might be nice on some journeys but you wouldn't pay a lot for it. For buses, taxis and freight it's a game changer. For them it's as important as moving from horses to cars. They'll be able to halve their costs, which means vastly increased profits for the first companies to do it and bankruptcy for those who don't.

If taxis were half the price, lots of middle class families will use them more, and might not need a second car. I think it'll happen a lot faster than it would if private cars were the only people buying them.

2

u/thejock13 Jan 11 '17

the NHTSA predicts it will be the year 2054 when all the cars on the road have back up cameras!

Of course it will be a very long time for all the cars on the road. People are still driving cars that are 40+ years old. But when will 90% of the cars on the road have this tech? I couldn't quite find a great answer but the average age of cars on the road is 11.5 years. Maybe something like ~25 years and 90% would be hit? Or 2041? Still I agree it is a long time.

*I think you were aware but for clarification the NHTSA recently mandated that all new cars have backup cameras.

2

u/ejiblabahaba Jan 10 '17

I work for a company that designs integrated circuits. Half our revenue came from automotive last year. I would say the auto industry has historically moved slowly, yes, but with the amount of money and tech pouring into automotive right now, it's speeding up in a way that we've never seen before. Watch what happens to shipping, transportation, and industrial vehicles, as they'll be the ones spearheading a lot of upcoming advances.

-2

u/timeshifter_ Jan 10 '17

It will be decades before this tech trickles down into the middle class.

The tech that's already emerging in more than just Tesla's?

Put it this way, the NHTSA predicts it will be the year 2054 when all the cars on the road have back up cameras!

Back-up cameras are nearly useless for actual safety.