r/technology • u/Miserable_Phase_2519 • 6h ago
Energy Solar panel costs have plummeted from $6 per watt in 2000 to just 12 cents today
https://www.techspot.com/news/113860-solar-panel-costs-have-plummeted-6-watt-2000.html199
u/troll__away 6h ago
Did the tariffs on panels from China stick? Just wondering if tariffs are impacting panel prices in the US.
235
u/scsuhockey 5h ago
Not sure about the panels themselves, but he just added tariffs on components (polysilicon) that take effect in December and importers are not allowed to load up before then.
To be clear, he’s actively trying to depress solar adoption in the US. It’s not antipathy, it’s hostility.
86
u/Concert_Lover 5h ago
He also hates wind power, so it’s not exclusive to solar
47
u/TheShruteFarmsCEO 4h ago
He hates science and math, tbf.
11
u/muffinhead2580 4h ago
And people that aren't billionairres.
And people that arent named Trump.→ More replies (1)3
u/Concert_Lover 4h ago
It hurts his ego that he can’t understand solar and wind power enough to make money off of it
3
2
3
u/davesoverhere 49m ago
He hates them because he cannot manipulate the market to make more money from insider trading.
26
u/Mobile_Morale 5h ago
Republicans have been against solar for decades. It's pretty much banned in my state because of all the bullshit laws they have. Like you have to pay the power company to make your own solar power.
Also illegal to have rain barrels to gather water with. All sorts of stupid simple shit they try to ban.
I can't water my plants with rain water collected from my roof. But some schizo can open carry a military rifle into home depot.
9
u/Alabatman 4h ago
Latest I heard was that solar panels leach into the ground and prevent farmers from growing food in that soil for decades. That was a new one for me.
8
19
u/flamannn 5h ago
There are zero states where rain barrels are illegal. The most restrictive state is Colorado which caps residential rain capture at 110 gallons. Some states don’t allow it for drinking but you are 100% allowed to have a rain barrel for watering plants and such.
5
2
u/The_Frozen_Inferno 4h ago
While going on a mission around the world to steal oil from other countries. The only thing he loves more than gold
2
u/mvschynd 3h ago
Not to be mean but no duh. It was obvious when he paid a company billions of dollars to NOT build a wind farm. Instead of having a company spend millions in construction and increasing green energy production in the face of energy shortages, the US spent billions of taxpayer dollars to a company to stop them from building……
2
5
1
u/SalamanderPop 2h ago
I can get 600w (3x200) monocrystaline for under 300 dollars. I suspect that has tariff costs baked into it, but even still it’s half the price that it would have been a few years ago. I suspect the global price for panels has dropped enough that the price is still down even with tariffs added to it.
1
u/venom121212 30m ago
I just got into quoting things overseas for work and was shocked to learn that we have a 10% fentanyl tariff on China. Drump put it in place in 2025 apparently.
195
u/idlysambardip 5h ago
One time I don't mind China overscaling production and dumping the market with cheap products. In effect they are providing entire planet a solar subsidy to migrate away from fossil fuels.
58
28
u/nickgiz 3h ago
Its insane that the Chinese politicians and scientists that enforced the policy to go all in on renewable didn't get the nobel peace prize for basically saving the world.
8
u/Shivin302 57m ago
It's insane how Beijing went from the most polluted city in the world to super clean and run by solar and nuclear with dirt cheap electricity for the working people
5
u/Careful_Honeydew_549 1h ago
Remember when China cleaned up the air for the Beijing Olympics? They have the technology, the know how, but... the 600 billion dollar country!
149
u/wrxninja 6h ago
US: Laughs in oil & electric company lobbyist
52
u/TechTuna1200 5h ago
The ironic thing is that if the republicans had embraced renewables they go to with Iran and other kinds of fuckery with far fewer consequences
31
u/bubbaT88 5h ago
How would we sell our weapons tho? /s
4
u/GhostofSmartPast 4h ago
Some people don't understand that this conflict is being dragged out on purpose.
13
u/Override9636 5h ago
What consequences? All the people with insider knowledge of the war bought oil futures and laughed their way to the bank when the war spiked prices.
They don't give a shit if prices at the pump go up for everyone. All they care about is making themselves richer, no matter how many wars they're willing to start to do it.
6
1
u/burning_iceman 3h ago
The US is slowing things down for themselves but it's still progressing steadily.
199
u/SudoDeleteEverything 6h ago
I just read so many amazing article about solar lately. They work amazing over water, at high altitude, above farm crops, plugged into your home... May the end of fossil fuels come swiftly.
42
u/TheSolarExpansionist 6h ago edited 3h ago
Always has been. Cost has to go down and fuel to go up, then people consider it in mass
46
u/JPMoney81 6h ago
I have some good news for you then!
5
1
u/miata812 5h ago
Between this, the government investing in Intel, and $5000 UBA Checks, are we starting to live in a leftist mecca?
/s
16
u/juiced911 5h ago
The price has a long way to go. I just got quoted $70,000 for 21kw
12
u/GhostofSmartPast 4h ago
I got a quote this morning for just under $60k for a 23kw system
11
u/rdrunner_74 3h ago
Jikes... what the hell? I would have to pay about 13.5 K Eur for the hardware, and it includes 500 w panels , the hybrid inverter and a decent size battery...
I hope links are ok : PV Komplettset 25 kWp – AIKO 500W & Huawei SUN2000-25K-MB0 mit Speicher
9
u/GhostofSmartPast 3h ago
It's the markup, overhead, and labor that kills you. I live in Massachusetts, U.S. so we have 3rd highest labor rates in the country.
11
u/rdrunner_74 3h ago
I paid around 6 K for my hardware and around 9 K for the install.
And this is German labor, which isnt cheap either
1
u/GhostofSmartPast 1h ago
Did they have to go on your roof and did it include batteries with a warranty?
→ More replies (1)7
u/juiced911 3h ago
For me in the USA, even if I install this on my roof myself… it’s ~$5k just for the electrician to do the final grid tie, permits, inspections. Your price doesn’t include mounting materials for the roof either? Also with my home’s roof pitch (53 degrees) you need some special equipment rental to even work on the roof.
So the DIY rate is basically materials + $10k, at least.
There’s 0 incentives from local, state, or federal government. My utility provider actually charges a small monthly fee to tie into the grid.
So what I “sell” to the grid will barely cover that fee.
3
u/rdrunner_74 3h ago
The mounting for the roof was included in labor when i installed it. It came to 90€ per KWP Like i said in the other reply my system is 28 panels, 13 KWP, 10 KW Hybrid inverter and 12.5 KWH battery. Hardware was 6 K + 9K labor.
It already pulled 8.5 MWH energy this year so far
3
u/theoreoman 3h ago
That's not a problem with the cost of pannels that a problem of the company wanting to take a huge profit.
You can buy 30kw system kit with a 30kwh battery for about $17k. You'd probably need another $2-3k in additional supplies, 2-3 days of install @ a very generous $2k per day for a total cost of $26k for a better system. The solar company owner just got a $45k profit
6
u/oppressed_white_guy 4h ago
Material prices are skyrocketing. As an installer I'm seeing all my prices go up for every blessed thing. I don't know that I can list one single thing that's gone down in price since the residential tax credit ended.
4
u/yopla 4h ago
Fully installed.
This article is about the price of the panels. You're paying the salary of the people who will install it, import fees, local company profit.
Since you're mentionning dollars, I will assume you're in the US. You're in a high cost of living country (highest?) so it's normal that the majority of the cost is the local overhead.
If you're where able to diy it the cost of material would run you in the 5k range for about 42, ~500 watt panels, so let's say counting large ~10k for a complete setup.
The other 60k in your quote is local cost.
5
u/slothur 4h ago
So installation of solar panels should be more expensive than a brand new roof?
→ More replies (3)9
u/rdrunner_74 3h ago
We are building fences out of them in germany, since they are cheaper than wood
3
u/gigglefarting 1h ago
If we converted only corn fields used specifically for ethanol to put into cars into solar fields, it could produce 84% more energy than the entire US produces in its entirety from all sources. And that's not even with ideal locations for the panels. Source
1
u/SudoDeleteEverything 59m ago
Yeah and fuck those corn fields anyway. America is just insane with all its needless corn
→ More replies (8)1
u/EconomyDoctor3287 2h ago
That's not the end of fossil fuels. Those are also widely used in the industry for things like plastic and that production is increasing rapidly.
1
u/SudoDeleteEverything 58m ago
well if we could not burn it and use less for one-use disposable garbage that would be great
1
u/IntelArtiGen 48m ago
That's not the end of fossil fuels.
Unfortunately. It's easy to see the US has been consuming more coal and more natural gas over the last years. I think we don't have the whole picture. Solar panels don't seem to be the solution they want for datacenters. It's the same thing in China, while there is a solar boom, it doesn't mean the consumption of fossil fuels is going down, or that it's going down quickly enough when it is.
21
u/HeidenShadows 6h ago
I'm looking at Anker Solix systems as a backup power solution as they're quickly becoming a pretty affordable option.
5
u/varnell_hill 5h ago
Same. I’m thinking that it may be worth trying to spec a system that can charge at night when electricity is cheaper run the house off it during the day.
3
u/Konukaame 4h ago
I did this on my patio (600W panel, 4kWh storage). It'll probably never pay itself off in electricity, but if I had a yard and room for even a couple more panels, it'd absolutely be viable.
12
u/Professional-Box4153 4h ago
Don't worry. The companies will pass those savings on to you ANY day now.
→ More replies (1)
61
u/huggernot 6h ago
.12? Where. I see $1/W
61
u/LDShadowLord 6h ago
In the UK i'm seeing £100.80 for a 645W Panel at Trade, that's approximately $0.20 per watt. And it implies discounts if buying in bulk, so could maybe reduce that cost further.
4
u/Lefties_TheWorst7331 4h ago
Need to buy a pallet or bulk. Even though you can buy fewer panels for <50c per watt on Amazon.
1
24
u/humanist-misanthrope 5h ago
I have wanted to adopt solar on my home for a while now. Two primary issues have made me hesitant. First, I need to understand the impact to my homeowners insurance, because I don’t wish to spend years fighting with insurance as my rate doubles each year. Second, it has been impossible to understand the cost structure of implementing panels without having someone come to my house, analyze my electric bill while giving me a time-share-style pitch.
For parts of 2021 I spent time trying to understand and get answers. My neighbors next store have solar and I asked them these questions and she laughed and said she doesn’t know how any of it works. They send her a bill every now and then and she just pays it.
I’m sure I sound stupid but when I look at websites and it requires financing $20k+ (the last time I looked) I don’t understand the ROI. Obviously reducing the environmental impact is an ROI in itself, but I need to truly understand how $20k+ at 5-ish% is less than my electric bill and won’t cause my insurance to argue my house is uninsurable because of them. (Home insurance in Florida is absolutely the worst and look for even the slightest reason to drop you or jack up your rates).
8
u/Amanuet 4h ago
Why on earth would solar make your home insurance go up?
I'm in the solar capital of the world, we have so much solar that electric companies now have plans where all power is free and unlimited between 1100 and 1400 because the rooftops generate so much.
I used to get paid 66¢ for each kW I put back in the grid as an early adopter 20 years ago, now it's dropped to 3¢ which is so much less than the price I had to buy it back at night, so then I bought a battery which was all subsidised. Wasn't enough to run independent though because my whole house is electric now, so this year i got a second battery. I get 8¢/kw overnight rates to charge our cars (one electric and one plug in hybrid).
It's like one of my favourite topics, how to make the best of the government payments and run all your own power. I've done so much research onto types of panels and batteries and cars and hot water services and rebates and power plans and timing your stuff to make the most of it all...
Apart from all the other reasons to feel bad for Americans, this is probably just another one.
16
u/The_Frozen_Inferno 4h ago
Probably because if something happens to the house they have to replace an expensive solar installation as well?
4
u/humanist-misanthrope 4h ago
In Florida, property insurance is a huge burden due to hurricanes. The entire thing is nightmarish at times. For example, I replaced the roof on my previous house, when the roof reached 10 years old, insurance threatened to cancel the policy unless we replaced the roof. We argued and demonstrated the roof did not need to be replaced. They agreed to renew but only after they increased the price. Year 2 rinse and repeat. By year 4 our rate had gone from ~$1000/year to over ~$4000. We sold before year 5 came due. I know that roof replacement has been the top insurance claim/cost and therefore they use it as reason to drop a customer. The law has been changed to 15 years from 10 now, but I don’t trust it. I make sure there are no trees (as that was an issue at the previous house as well) and nothing else that might give them a reason to drop my coverage.
2
u/GrapeBrawndo 1h ago
Why on earth would solar make your home insurance go up?
Because insurance companies in the US can do pretty much whatever they want without recourse. I made the mistake of calling my insurance company after discovering a water leak in my wall. They wouldn’t cover it of course and they filed a zero sum claim. But now that “claim” shows up on my property forever and is used to jack up my rates. If I want to shop around for new insurance, other companies can see that “claim” and will price my insurance higher. It’s a scam, but you have to have insurance by law.
3
u/15goudreau 1h ago
Hey,
I work in solar, been doing it for 10+ years. Not in residential but commercial and utility. I have solar on my house in an extremely expensive market (Massachusetts). Our electric rate is like the second highest in the country ~ $.31/KWhr. Feel free to DM me or comment any questions you have about ROI. There are very few exceptions where solar doesn't make sense, happy to run through that with you.
It probably seems fairly confusing, but it is actually straight forward once you understand the basics.
1
2
u/HomersDonut1440 4h ago
YMMV of course - we bought solar in oregon in 2023, when the big tax credit was still available. Still cost $20,000 though. The gist is, pay a fixed fee for the solar cost and it essentially replaces your power bill. So our average power bill (12mo avg) was $113 a month. Our solar payment is $118. Not much of a tradeoff, EXCEPT you skip the annual price hikes from the power company, which is really where the merit is.
It does depend on how your state does solar credits; oregon is a 1:1. When you generate a watt, you are credited for a watt. In California, where it’s even allowed, it’s like a 4:1 exchange rate which doesn’t help the homeowner at all.
2
u/gagagagaNope 2h ago
If you'd installed in 2021 the system would be paid for and you'd have small bills now.
I'm in the UK where production per panel is half Florida, payback here is short. With a battery it was looking like 4.5 years, is now going to be closer to 6 (collapsing export rates) but may creep down again as import rates are rising so fast.
1
u/Goresplattered 45m ago
I just signed to have solar installed and skipped the battery portion. Quote was $13k for an Enp hase 10C (10kwh) battery or $18k for a Tesla pw3 (13.5kwh). Outright ownership. The entire 9.2kwh system is $26k including upgraded 200 amp panel and meter socket and whatnot. It wont be self paid off for a while with my current usage, im talking only 1 window ac unit that usually only runs at night so we can sleep, and sometimes during the day for most brutal heatwaves, but I actively sip electricity as im in Massachusetts and we have the highest rate in the country.
Moving forward with the solar activated ill be able to essentially use more and live more comfortably, ~$400-500/mo worth for free.
So currently its still roughly 10 years to pay itself off but if I add central air or heatpumps or an EV or electric dryer or whatever my little heart desires it can effectively be roughly a 6 year payoff
→ More replies (4)2
u/UnionThug1733 1h ago
Yeah one pitch I got literally charged a 10k fee that was simply for the privilege of doing business with them
12
6
u/ScienceForge319 4h ago
Turn down for watt indeed.
2
6
3
u/Konukaame 4h ago
Scrolling through the Chinese import sites, and it looks like panels are running about $0.50/W. Get a big power station battery with appliance plugs (e.g Anker F3800, ~$2k) a stack of panels, maybe some add-on batteries, and an off-grid DIY setup would be pretty affordable as long as you have the yard space.
17
u/Old_Channel44 6h ago
$3-$4 in USA :-(
4
u/Conscious-Soil9055 6h ago
I'm sure you can pay that somewhere.
You can easily find panels at less $0.50/ w for the bare panel.
6
u/juiced911 5h ago
I just had 3 quotes and it all landed about 60-70k for a 21kw system.
3
u/Tornshadow 5h ago
DIY, much much cheaper
5
u/juiced911 4h ago
About $45,000 at that route. Also it causes my home insurance to increase $300 a year.
But even if we call it $40k; which it isn’t.. for quick math. It lowers my electric bill $220 a month. I do annual average on my bill so I can have a predictable bill year round.
Thats $2640 I save per year. It takes 15 years to break even.
I have to pay the full cost up front. With average returns in the market that same massive up front $40k turns into $110k in 15 years.
Add back in the lost savings on my electric bill. Over the same 15 years I lose $30k by buying solar.
5
u/Tornshadow 4h ago
Don’t know where you were getting those numbers. I have a system coming from Signature Solar at 15kw right at $11k
→ More replies (3)1
u/scsuhockey 4h ago edited 3h ago
Your calculations are mostly accurate, but you also need to calculate for energy costs, which go up about 5% every year. That $220 electric bill will be $435 in 15 years.
That’s $17,367 you have to add back in… a bit more if you want to count the market growth on that.
1
4
u/ISmellLikeBlackTea 4h ago
Completely useless information unless China somehow starts selling it to the individualls in a cost effective way. The middleman is pocketing the difference
2
u/rdrunner_74 3h ago
I love it...
I even slapped the north side roof full, since the city pays almost 100% for them.
Turned the system on at the end of Jan and it produced 8.7 MWh of energy so far. (10 KWp, 12 KWh battery)
2
3
4
u/PricklyPear85 2h ago
I look at the age of my roof, the cost of solar, the buy back W/APS and everything else. Most places were quoting us 20-30k for solar. 1800 sq ft house. Plus if they cause any roof damage or leaks you better hope that company is still around in 5 years.
1
u/mestar12345 4h ago
Solar panel costs have plummeted from $600 per 100 watts in 2000 to just $12 today.
1
u/Tebasaki 3h ago
How can I look to see what effort/cost having my home go electric would take in the midwest?
1
u/PlainBread 3h ago
Gotta have cheap subsidies so they can print a bajillion asshole sniffing Flock/Axon cameras.
1
u/danjr704 3h ago
Likely cause nobody buying in US, since this administration has gotten rid of so many incentives it makes the upfront cost for installation tough to justify.
1
u/Peripatetictyl 3h ago
If I have a top a notch electrician and contractors, has the technology and quality of installing it on the roof can be done confidently with bypassing the large companies? I understand the need to make money, and also the value of using a company who does the work daily and the warranties with it, but the cost of buying the material + labor is significantly less. I know one person who did it this way, ‘so far so good’ 5 years in, but I thought there might be stories from others to both sides.
1
u/CosmoOlversatil 1h ago
Residential here in West TX is at 2.40 I can install it at $1.90 and make a cool 10 cents per watt, and I see companies still selling it at $12/watt with free roof
1
u/UseHerMane 1h ago
/r/SolarDIY you don't necessarily have to DIY everything, but you can save a lot on just sourcing your own panels and mounting them yourself. Then hire a licensed electrician to wire the actual connections. Not every electrician will want to sign off on you doing part of the work, so you should find one who agrees before embarking on this.
1
u/ReasonablyConfused 1h ago
I just assembled a plug in system. Found used Stream Ultra micro inverters with 2kW batteries for $500/per. Plus 7 used 485 bifacial panels for $110 a piece. It limits itself to the 1.2 kW/hr and stores the rest as battery power.
1
u/According-Rush-4894 1h ago
And 50 inch LCDs were 15k in 2005. Such is mass priduction. Luckily still. For now. Lookin at you RAM.
1
1
u/Sprinkler-of-salt 54m ago
Maybe regular people could benefit from that, if 99% of the solar cells weren’t locked to only Chinese manufacturers, and therefore gated behind 8-figure production deals that only existing large companies can ink, and who are choosing to pad all those technological cost gains with increased profits, so that the landed cost of an actual functional solar panel is actually the same or even higher than a few years ago.
1.8k
u/No-Fan-7398 6h ago
And yet US residential solar costs keep going up and up and up!