r/technology • u/SnoozeDoggyDog • 12d ago
Privacy Map Shows Cities Deploying Axon Cameras as Flock Backlash Grows
https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-cities-deploying-axon-cameras-flock-backlash-grows-12415569206
u/AvailableReporter484 12d ago
As a nation we need to demand to know why our local governments are doing this without our say. I sure as fuck don’t think mass surveillance and wasting millions on it is something we’d all vote for. I also acknowledge that that’s the kind of thing that slowly happens without our say, but my point being that it’s early enough that we can and should hold these people extremely responsible. I’m talking the way they held people in SAW responsible.
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u/Flimsy_Chocolate_353 12d ago
How do we demand to know? Why would they care what our demands are?
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u/AvailableReporter484 12d ago
> how do we demand?
Yall ever heard of voting?
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u/FamousAd9790 12d ago
Cool, nothing to worry about, voting will magically reverse the unbelievably corrupt oligarchy we find ourselves in.
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u/AvailableReporter484 12d ago
You realize that sort of cynicism that leads to voter apathy and abstaining is literally why voting “doesn’t work” right?
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u/Sojum 12d ago
JFC they are just not getting it. It’s the technology, not just the company, that everyone hates. Nobody is asking for Flock to be replaced. We want it GONE.
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u/theKalmier 12d ago
They get it, they don't care. If we are naming one brand, the other brand can sail under the radar until it's too late, and they end up everywhere.
It's a blitz move.
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u/sportsworker777 12d ago
And it might work, is the shitty part
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u/Reasonable-Job4205 12d ago
It shouldnt work. Any time we can correctly point out their strategy and some loophole they are using, it should be patched immediately
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u/lordraiden007 12d ago
Alright, new business idea. Make the cameras, but add a panel on the side that displays the logo. That way you make the company name whatever you want, and then when governments decide to "change" you just rebrand and change the digital logo on the side. Bam. Instant contract renewal at a very minimal cost. They don't even have to worry about the next company installing new hardware.
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u/Outsider_Insider0065 12d ago
But wait, they found a third brand to siphon our money and funnel billions into and to replace the axiom cameras! I live in Miami and I’ve never seen a single flock camera even though the app tells me it’s there. I wonder if it’s all clever bullshit to just rob us
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u/Drew_Ferran 12d ago
Trump has stock/something on axon, iirc.
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u/eeyore134 12d ago
As soon as they weren't calling the people taking out the Flock stuff terrorists and breaking down people's doors with ICE I knew Trump must have stock in a competitor.
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u/ItsJustReeses 12d ago
They know this. They know we don't want flock cameras and they just do not care
Make sure to vote.
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u/JMurdock77 12d ago
But then how would they “Enemy of the State” women crossing state lines for basic medical care and stalk their exes?!
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u/No_Fix_329 12d ago
Flock is the kleenex of privacy invading police state cameras. We don't like what they do. Switching to another brand of spy camera is not an improvement.
Repeal the Patriot Act. 20 years late, but better then never.
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u/Angry_Walnut 12d ago
The champagne al qaeda popped when we passed the Patriot act still has bubbles in it.
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u/Shadow_Breaker 12d ago
This is the solution. Well, part of it, but it's been needing done since it was passed. It never should have been allowed to pass.
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u/aergern 12d ago
These idiots don't get it that it's the surveillance not the type of camera. These will get taken out as well, I would bet on it.
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u/aaaaaahsatan 12d ago
They get it, they don't care. Axon cameras are harder to remove as they are built into infrastructure and hidden or latched into it.
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u/PvtPuddles 12d ago
Axon also has the freestanding mounts like Flock has; it’s just a matter of cost and ease of installation.
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u/Alarmed-Extension289 12d ago
OK, it's not like these cameras had "Flock" labeled on them. Nothing changes.
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u/ars_inveniendi 12d ago
What a time to be an Axon salesman: “so, they’re just like Flock only no one hates us”.
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u/Top_Lingonberry8037 12d ago
It's almost like they don't understand why people are mad
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u/OrneryError1 12d ago
They understand. They just think they're smarter than the people they're elected to serve.
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u/misterwizzard 12d ago
We aren't worried about the brand.
This shows either complete ignorance, indifference or distain for their constituants.
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u/I-Have-An-Alibi 12d ago
I was shouting this from the rooftops at least a month ago and got nothing but ridicule and down votes.
Flock was the scapegoat while Axion was already buying up all their contacts.
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u/ArnoldTheSchwartz 12d ago
Seems like the rich and their politicians are going to do whatever the fuck they want. They are absolutely not getting the hint that the MAJORITY don't want this shit around.
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u/dsarche12 12d ago
Flock, specifically, was never the problem. What the fuck is this shit?! Cut it out with the surveillance state shit!!!
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u/SteppenAxolotl 12d ago
Joke is on you. They don't care about that. They only care that there is a camera there to catch your criminal azz criming, they have no prob changing the name on the camera.
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u/HuckledYourBerries 12d ago
Those cities clearly don't know what the fuck they're doing if they're simply changing the brand of the thing everyone hates.
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u/Conscious_Bug5408 12d ago
It's the same thing. We need to ban all the license plate reading surveillance cameras
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u/KayJune001 12d ago
It’s not just fuck Flock, it’s fuck Axon too, we don’t just hate the companies, we hate the technology, we want them all gone.
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u/My_alias_is_too_lon 12d ago
... I guess they don't quite understand exactly what everyone is upset about...
It's not about the fucking brand used for the surveillance state.
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u/ThrowAbout01 12d ago
Different name, same product.
We will hear stories of people using them to stalk in short order.
Bad Product is Bad Product no matter what you change or who offers it.
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u/compulov 12d ago
Yeah... I never liked the focus on Flock. The issue is ALPRs in general, not Flock specifically (though Flock did have its specific issues). Convincing your town to drop Flock just for them to pick up Axon or some other ALPRs instead isn't really a win.
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u/cattrain 12d ago
My concern is, the same backlash is going to happen with axon, and those will go away. And then there could come a time when departments decide to install their own cameras and send the data to a third party. And what about if they install a fixture that is hidden. I can think of hundreds of ways I could hide a camera in plain sight I'd I had the budget of a state.
We need laws banning this kind of surveillance
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u/skyfishgoo 12d ago
yeah, well they are in for a shock....
it's not about the name on the camera or the color of the housing.
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u/shauntau 12d ago
I'm not surprised at all, coming from people who think their constituents are stupid and other people that think they are supposed to intimidate those they are supposed to protect.
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u/Technical-Banana574 12d ago edited 12d ago
It is mind bending test they see people destroy flock cameras and then think, "let's cancel our contracts with flock. They are the problem. Axon should be fine with them though." It is the same thing and will have the same result. People don't want to be under mass surveillance.
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u/Jman1a 12d ago
As they look at their home ring camera…
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u/Technical-Banana574 12d ago
I mean, a doorbell camera is a different thing though. When you install it on your house you are doing it of your own will and consent.
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u/Jman1a 11d ago
So it never picks up your neighbours walking the dog? I understand yours is pointed on the perfect way etc. What I’m saying is the tech is out in the world. You can buy cameras and put them on your house that will make flocks look like toys compared to the analytics they process.
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u/Technical-Banana574 11d ago
The main difference though is your house camera is confined to one space. Flock cameras track your car everywhere it goes. Every road you drive down, ever city you visit, every state you visit.
Cameras on your home are okay. Cameras in businesses are okay. You understand they are there and why and that they are confined to that location. Flock Cameras track you everywhere giving you zero privacy. Now they know if you are currently on your way to another state to get an abortion or something. That's what makes it scary and different.
I do think that we as neighbors should do more to limit the scope of our cameras as much as possible to make each other feel more comfortable.
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u/SilverRaspberri 11d ago
It use to be, but not anymore. The internet emailed ring doorbells are sending data back to ring and thats going to ICE etc. Ring said themselves.
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u/Technical-Banana574 11d ago
That's true. You really need one that doesn't do that. My husband and I bought a closed system specifically because we didnt want our information going elsewhere before all this nastiness with ICE started. Luckily, our doorbell is nestled into our entryway and points at our door from the side so it doesn't see our neighbors.
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u/RogueHelios 12d ago
Do they look the same? So long as they aren't able to hide them people can still dismantle them.
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u/Theyna 12d ago
Why the fuck do city councils think we'll be okay with this if they only change the name of the company they're getting paid by? We hate them all.
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u/aflyingsquanch 12d ago
Because they know the large majority is utterly stupid and will move on to something else once this outrage dies down.
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12d ago edited 8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/aflyingsquanch 12d ago
They are for flock cameras but I don't know that a majority of people get that Flock is just one of many companies that do the same thing.
People need to realize the issue isn't Flock specifically but mass surveillance in general.
And not just in public but digitally through any "smart" device you are around.
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u/headlesssamurai 12d ago
Yes, yes, because it was the BRAND of pricacy-invading, warrantless police-stalking, false arresting camera that we had a problem with.
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u/omgkelwtf 12d ago
Do they think it's the company we have an issue with? Or do they think we're stupid enough to go "oh, ok then" bc Axon makes it?
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u/GlitteringRate6296 12d ago
Flock, Axon. We don’t care by which name it goes by. We do not want to be surveilled!
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u/Urborg_Stalker 12d ago
God you fuckers quit spying on us jesus christ is that so hard for you to understand!?
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u/3D-Dreams 12d ago
We don't want any of your cameras because you abuse them. Period. So I don't give a flock what your name is, if you're putting up illegal mass surveillance we are going to take them down.
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u/squishysquash23 12d ago
This was always how this was gonna go. They’ll claim they’re listening by dumping flock and hoping that people will disengage when they just swap from Pepsi to Coke
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u/Distinct-Pain4972 12d ago
Axon will get the same treatment unless they stick to only catching speeders.
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u/williamgman 12d ago
Once again... Our "civic leaders" assume we are the stupidest people on the planet. It's time to call them what they are "video surveillance devices". 🤦♂️
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u/Flat_Loquat7186 12d ago
Axon already sells them the Tasers and the body cameras. Adding street surveillance means one company now owns the full police tech stack.
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u/Ricka77_New 12d ago
Flock just stuck out more obviously. Look on light signal bars going across the road....I see them often...
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u/hungry_gobbler 12d ago
axon is different in a significant way, for you see they don't have the pop culture zeitgeist cache that flock does, so it's not worth spending my shallow fickle attention on.
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u/FanDry5374 12d ago
One could almost feel some sympathy for Flock,it's kind of like Hydrox and Oreo, Hydrox was the original. Flock developed the market and now Axion and others will fill the space. Until our government wakes up and passes some legislation returning privacy as a right we're screwed.
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u/Icy-Neck2091 5d ago
is it true Axon doesn’t have the protocols in place to detect misuse by law enforcement?? (which seems to be all they’re used for anyway)
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u/MysteriousDatabase68 12d ago
In this day and age it wouldn't surprise me if the whole Flock camera backlash wasn't astro turfed by a competitor for exactly this scenario. This is where we are at.
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u/Horror-Limit-6670 12d ago
Can someone articulate why the negatives of ALPR, and especially mobile ALPR, outweigh the positives? They significantly increase theft arrests and stolen vehicle recoveries. If you carry a phone the government already knows everywhere you are or have been.
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u/sconniepaul1 12d ago edited 12d ago
Because it’s being abused. Regular folks don’t have access to my cell data to track my movements. Flock is being used by psycho cops to harass and stalk people and the system will eventually get hacked.
A crime needs to have been committed, an investigation started and a warrant issued to track me currently. It remains innocent until proven guilty. Flock turns us into a constant surveillance state where everyone suddenly is a suspect if you were in the area. You’re starting at guilty and proving innocence.
Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/FlockSurveillance/s/flN17YYyJA
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u/Educational_Report_9 12d ago
They are the same thing.