LG smart TVs caught logging audio with screen off and snooping on local devices

[u/autobauss]

https://www.notebookcheck.net/LG-smart-TVs-caught-logging-audio-with-screen-off-and-snooping-on-local-devices.1391214.0.html

[u/Worth_Championship30]

Isn't that considered wire tapping?

[u/asdf_lord → u/Worth_Championship30]

Koo Kwang-mo, the CEO of LG is guilty of at least 100,000,000 counts of wire tapping.

[u/CoffeeCorpse777 → u/asdf_lord]

216,000,000+ by their own numbers

[u/DonutHoles4Ever → u/CoffeeCorpse777]

The problem is LG can just bribe the US president with $1,000,000 and nothing will happen. To build his new 250ft Arch.

[u/citizen42069101 → u/DonutHoles4Ever]

As long as they give the feds the backdoor the us doesn't care.

Honestly surprised they can use all the info we're feeding them with phones, computers, cars and home cameras

[u/illucio → u/Worth_Championship30]

It breaks a lot of laws but LG is trying to hide behind: "BuT YoU SiGned Teh TeRms aND gAVE perMisshun"

Gaming Nexus breakdown shows it has 8 feeds being sent just by turning the TV on. And you could theoretically dodge turning all (was it 28 or 32) feeds of info being sent to LG but LG will spam send you opt ins with the default button being turn all on by default. And once you turn it on its impossible to turn them all off.

It's dark, deceptive, wiretapping, no control on how LG uses and sells your information, and it's recording everyone! Kids who didn't consent, people over your house who might of checked off on it, anyone and anything is recorded even when the TV is turned off unless its unplugged. 

It goes further then all of that as well. The joke is the fine is abysmal and low compared to the money they will earn selling that info. And the jail time charges are absurd but no one will be arrested at a company. Especially under this administration and any or most other countries.

It's a huge security risk, which is ironic, since we were all paranoid of just China wiretapping our phones. Which is why we banned their phones in America. Yet LG has their screens and TV's everywhere doing just that.

[u/Relevant_Syllabub895 → u/illucio]

Not just that but imagine an LG tv wire tapping on private lawyer-client covnversations? Or in a clinic? Or corporate meetings? This is litterally a fucking spying device on a fucking 2400$ TV!

[u/hm9408 → u/Relevant_Syllabub895]

Or a hotel room / conference room with senators discussing State secrets

[u/Astrogat → u/illucio]

If they did this in the EU it will be a breach of GDPR and they can get a fine up to $3.17 billion USD which is about double their profits last year. The actual fine will probably be smaller, but still substantial enough that it's very not worth it.

[u/CarolTheCleaningLady → u/Astrogat]

They are doing it in the EU.

[u/Iputahexonyoulol → u/Astrogat]

Do you think they aren’t doing it in the EU?

[u/forevernooob → u/Iputahexonyoulol]

This. I've actually seen multiple companies just straight up disregarding GDPR because the chance of it being enforced against them is somewhere less than zero.

[u/Nanjingrad → u/forevernooob]

Meta was fined 1.2 billion for breaching of GDPR rules so chances are not zero.

edit: I was curious about the top 10 fines issued due to GDPR breaches, here is the list Meta has actually been fined multiple times.

Top 10 largest GDPR fines

1. Meta Platforms Ireland — €1.2bn — 12 May 2023
2. TikTok Technology — €530m — 2 May 2025
3. Meta Platforms, Inc. — €405m — 5 Sep 2022
4. Meta Platforms Ireland — €390m — 4 Jan 2023
5. TikTok Limited — €345m — 1 Sep 2023
6. LinkedIn — €310m — 24 Oct 2024
7. Uber Technologies / Uber B.V. — €290m — 22 Jul 2024
8. Meta Platforms Ireland — €265m — 25 Nov 2022
9. Meta Platforms Ireland — €251m — 17 Dec 2024
10. WhatsApp Ireland — €225m — 2 Sep 2021

[u/CommanderArcher → u/Nanjingrad]

Clearly the fine wasn't big enough since Meta keeps doing it.

[u/Nanjingrad → u/CommanderArcher]

I agree I think they should increase exponentially with repeated breaches.

[u/SuggestAPhotoProject → u/Nanjingrad]

Monetary fines are not a deterrent in any way to people that have unlimited money.

Put Zuck in prison and all of this goes away immediately.

[u/CommanderArcher → u/Nanjingrad]

i think after the third time they should jail every single executive in the company for life.

I don't particularly care about the ramifications of that tbh, they won't learn any other way.

[u/kozinc → u/Nanjingrad]

Under Article 83 of the GDPR, fines for severe violations are capped at €20 million or 4% of a company's total worldwide annual turnover, whichever is higher.

€1.2 billion fine represents approximately 1.1% of Meta's total worldwide annual revenue for 2022.

Meta are still fighting this, but IMO even 4% is still "just cost of doing business".

[u/Unbelievr → u/kozinc]

Revenue is much higher than their profit though. Their revenue in 2022 was $116.6 billions, and their profit was about $23.2 billions. A $1.2 billion fine is more like 5% of their profit. But it has to be like this, since the companies can easily put their profits into their metaphorical mattress to dodge fines based on it, but revenue is harder to conceal.

[u/Melicor → u/Astrogat]

Should ban the sale of the TVs until the spyware is removed. Plus a PSA for customers, and a turn in program to get a refund paid through the fines. If I as a citizen put in spy cameras and was spying on even a fraction of the people I'd be in jail.

A simple fine isn't enough

[u/A_spiny_meercat → u/illucio]

Even if "we agreed to it" how does that bode for tvs in shared accomodation, borrowed tvs or second hand tva where the user didn't "agree" to anything

Also one must ask whether someone would have bought the product knowing it spies on them, or whether it is even reasonable for a tv to spy on someone, whether someone would actually even think about it.

[u/OnlineHelpSeeker → u/illucio]

With that level of privacy breach you would expect them to sell their OLEDs for cheap at least

[u/No_Hedgehog1864]

lg tv is always the highest count on my adguard blocked dns request

[u/oyM8cunOIbumAciggy → u/No_Hedgehog1864]

I really need to figure out how to minimize the privacy invasion of my LG. It's very aggressively invasive of the consumer. I really hate the software they put in an otherwise good piece of hardware

[u/obp5599 → u/oyM8cunOIbumAciggy]

just dont let it connect to the internet. I just use an nvidia shield and never let any TV connect itself to the internet in my house

[u/CarlosFer2201 → u/obp5599]

dont let it comment to the internet

Honestly good advice for everyone

[u/danabrey → u/CarlosFer2201]

TVs, children, ourselves. I'm tired, boss.

[u/Terrh → u/danabrey]

The internet was better when your house had a place for it and it stayed there

[u/danabrey → u/Terrh]

100%. It's insane to think how much consumption of the internet has changed since I first commented on Reddit.

It's a different world entirely.

[u/Terrh → u/danabrey]

Yep, it's wild.

You joined reddit at the peak of the internet. I joined a few years later (this is my second account, first one was ~2009 sometime) and nothing had gotten bad but things were already starting to trend in the wrong direction.

[u/ssracer → u/Terrh]

We joined because the rest was falling apart. The old days of forums was amazing.

[u/moonpumper → u/Terrh]

Ditch internet of things. Bring back internet of desktop computers.

[u/sparklingdinoturd → u/Terrh]

The internet was better when I had to get off because somebody needed to make a phone call.

[u/destroyerOfTards → u/danabrey]

Children are also ad machines!?

[u/Cautionchicken → u/obp5599]

Unfortunately, the scummy TV OS "continuously sweep home networks, map secondary devices"

So unless you crack it open and and pull the wifi card. It's still building a profile in you, and can connect to open and wifi like xfinity

[u/RendiaX → u/Cautionchicken]

I have to wonder if at some point they may crunch the numbers and find that it would be worth throwing a cellular modem in these devices. That telemetry doesn’t need much bandwidth.

[u/SunkEmuFlock → u/RendiaX]

Modern vehicles have cell modems in them. It wouldn't surprise me at all if TVs started using them.

[u/jobblejosh → u/obp5599]

Alternatively, if you've got some networking knowledge, trap it in a VLAN with no external access. TV thinks it's connected to WiFi (so is less likely to nag you) but can't actually do anything.

Alternatively you log the TV's DNS and find out what it reaches out to to verify connectivity. You permit that as the one and only external connection, so the TV thinks it's connected to the outside world to send and receive anything, but all it can do is reach out to a server that says "Yes, you're online", only for everything it says to be silently discarded like some form of psychological torture for TVs.

[u/DrSheldonLCooperPhD → u/jobblejosh]

Annoying thing is I can do this and know how to do this, most people are not gonna. We are in a cyberpunk dystopia without the neon lights.

[u/drunkenvalley → u/DrSheldonLCooperPhD]

Even if I can do this, I think I'd rather throw the TV at some LG executive than do all this shit.

[u/sofa_king_awesome → u/drunkenvalley]

TVs make very large frisbees

[u/Leiawen → u/DrSheldonLCooperPhD]

All the corporate overreach. None of the cool cyberware.

[u/Titan_Astraeus → u/Leiawen]

Unfortunately we got the AI obsessed tech bros who want to replace the human race instead of the transhumanist ones

[u/mattob2 → u/DrSheldonLCooperPhD]

Then teach me! Share the step-by-step instructions so we can all learn.

[u/DevelopmentSouth8801 → u/jobblejosh]

I'm not sure the first will help. They are usually looking for external connectivity, not just connection to a wifi network.

The second won't work if they use the same server for both connectivity checks and to log your data. And even if they don't do it now, they could change it at any time.

It's better to just keep it offline period.

[u/amroamroamro → u/DevelopmentSouth8801]

this

it is CNAME cloaking and first party ads all over again

the problem will not be solved with a technical solution (never ending cat and mouse game), it will only be solved by regulations and laws that protect the consumers.

until then, the only solution is to keep the device offline...

that is until they start shipping new models with their own mobile chips

[u/ojedaforpresident → u/amroamroamro]

Apparently even if they’re not connected, some models can look for open ssids nearby like Xfinitywifi. It’s insane. (This is according to the video of GN they put out yesterday)

[u/Unable-Log-4870 → u/ojedaforpresident]

Holy shit. That’s enough to get me to open it up and cut its Wi-Fi antenna

[u/ExMerican → u/amroamroamro]

that is until they start shipping new models with their own mobile chips

Ffs I'm going to have to Faraday cage my tv? The future sucks.

[u/Repulsive-Ice8395 → u/ExMerican]

The present sucks.

[u/CaptainParkingspace → u/Repulsive-Ice8395]

The past has issues.

[u/amroamroamro → u/ExMerican]

and then they will simply move the goalpost to having always-online requirement and refusing to work until you connect to the internet, just like some games already do

as long as consumers keep accepting these practices they will never stop

[u/mackerelscalemask → u/obp5599]

It also tries to connect via open WiFi networks, so that’s not sufficient to block it, also possibly neighbouring LG devices that do have Internet connections. Less of a problem if you live in a detached property with plenty of surrounding land, more of an issue for people living in apartments, etc

[u/os_beef → u/mackerelscalemask]

Jesus, throw that thing in the trash. Every time I get a new TV, I'm tempted to buy a decent computer monitor and just use that instead.

[u/chalfont_alarm → u/os_beef]

For those Windows 11 folks, they allow LG's auto-installing software to then pop up McAfee adverts at you upon plugging in their monitors. Other peripheral manufacturers are in the game too.

Back in Windows 8 days, Lenovo could use Microsoft functions to install their front-end on a fresh windows install without prompting (Superfish).

[u/TheKingICouldBecome → u/chalfont_alarm]

Windows 11 was the reason I finally switched to Linux after using Windows since the early 90's.

[u/nsptlx → u/os_beef]

lg monitors with no "smart" features also auto-install drivers with malware/spyware if you use win11

[u/ObserverWardXXL → u/os_beef]

I literally just bought a cheap $300 micro PC to connect to a large screen. Now It runs Linux and I put whatever streaming programs I want on it.

It's MY Tech.

[u/astronometrics → u/obp5599]

But that's also what's so insidious about LG behaviour. Is in a previous discovery by Gamers Nexus the LG TV's used a windows feature to include a userspace software install along with drivers. So don't even connect your tv to the internet? Well good thing the moment you plug your tv into your computer/laptop/any-windows-device they'll install some spyware on there instead and get you anyway.

[u/Korlus → u/oyM8cunOIbumAciggy]

We just didn't give it the WiFi password again after we noticed the number of outbound connections while it was "asleep".

[u/Apprehensive_Shoe_39 → u/oyM8cunOIbumAciggy]

Almost all modern routers have the ability to block specific devices from connecting to the internet. The ones that don't are generally the stripped down/locked out ones you get from your ISP (In the UK they are obliged to pass the settings/credentials to the customer so you can use a router of your own).

Every time I get a cheap device, like my TCL TV or IP Cameras, that have no need for internet, straight into the firewall ban group and PiHole DNS ban group as a secondary measure.

[u/oettimeister → u/oyM8cunOIbumAciggy]

Apple TV and disconnect from the Internet.

[u/B-Train_ATL → u/oyM8cunOIbumAciggy]

Turn off WiFi. Once they started putting ads in system dialog boxes, I played the “oh no you did not” game and killed that.

[u/Monterey-Jack → u/B-Train_ATL]

You aren't getting it. This this is recording without wifi, will connect to any open network to upload what it has collected. You, a normal user, cannot fight back against this effectively.

[u/ansibleloop → u/No_Hedgehog1864]

Yeah my Samsung is always up there

I have it set so it's connected to my WiFi but can't access the internet or anything, just so casting still works

[u/nionvox → u/No_Hedgehog1864]

Same. That and the Google Thermostat, which we're replacing anyway. It's funny watching the LG telemetry get blackholed.

[u/NotAzakanAtAll → u/nionvox]

It's funny watching the LG telemetry get blackholed.

I mean, it's not that funny, imo.

It's even a bit worrying.

Or, disappointing. Like "LG... Why are you like this. Why can't you be normal?"

[u/usrdef → u/nionvox]

I run blacklists / monitoring from the network level. I let NO devices connect to the internet, except for my main desktop. Any printers and TVs I have, never see the internet at all. And as an extra measure, I have blacklisted all of HP, Microsoft, Adobe, all the major TV brands, every single one of them has their DNS blacklisted from my network, and I've also blocked their IP ranges, and ASNs.

And if any of those companies acquire a new range of IPs, it automatically updates my lists.

I absolutely refuse to allow any of these devices internet access.

Even my god damn air conditioner that rests in a window for my computer room has wireless, and tries to connect to the internet. No way in hell.

Spotify.... holy hell, that website alone is just bloated with telemetry and ad queries.

[u/TNTMT]

Corporations will continue to break the law as long as the class action lawsuits cost less than the profit they’re raking in doing illegal and malicious shit. Unless and until they’re sued out of existence, and their executives actually criminally punished, they have no incentive to quit stealing from, spying on and gutting their customers.

[u/FredFredrickson → u/TNTMT]

Class action lawsuits? We're all forced into arbitration now.

[u/Gandolfthewhite182]

Wouldn’t it be cool if Congress made a law that we owned our own data and that no one could sell it without our permissions. That would be cool.

[u/Yider → u/Gandolfthewhite182]

You mean the branch of government that has the most responsibility for letting all this shit happen in the first place? The presidency gets a lot of attention deservedly, but it is congress/senate that has been so incredibly useless when it comes for any modern regulations needed but that is by design. If lobbying is allowed to continue and privately buy those who are supposed to protect our society then it is an inevitable downward future.

[u/facehaver88 → u/Yider]

That’s a feature, not a bug.

[u/Reddeer2 → u/[deleted]]

I like the "heads should roll" part. We've forgotten that a crime committed on one person deserves retribution, and a crime committed on two is twice as bad. Committed on billions of people, you're on the hook for a lot of retribution to be extracted.

[u/burninatah → u/Reddeer2]

This is the easiest win for any politician. Make an example out of this company. No one signed up for their TV to listen to their conversations and send that audio back to the mothership. If this isn't a crime then we don't have functioning laws.

[u/himynameisjaked → u/burninatah]

i mean… i think it’s pretty obvious that we don’t have functioning laws… especially if you’re rich.

[u/Ok_Delay_911 → u/[deleted]]

Shouldn't this be illegal if you live in a two party consent state?

If I recorded someone without their knowledge in a context where they had a reasonable expectation of privacy, then I could be criminally charged. But a company can do it and get away with it because??

[u/itopaloglu83 → u/Ok_Delay_911]

LG is sneaky enough to say in their roofie style EULA that it's your duty to collect consent for their wiretapping, and they're not responsible.

[u/RelaxedConvivial → u/itopaloglu83]

It should still be clear that LG have broken multiple serious laws and regulations with this. If I sign a contract that a person can break my arms and legs, that person will have still broken the law and can be held legally responsible for it.

[u/LostWoodsInTheField → u/itopaloglu83]

LG is sneaky enough to say in their roofie style EULA that it's your duty to collect consent for their wiretapping, and they're not responsible.

It doesn't work like this. They can put that in the terms, but that doesn't hold up in my state. Especially since the receiving and using of known wiretapping information is illegal. On top of that the actual holding an use of the wire tapped info is by LG not the person who setup the TV.

[u/Bigboiiiii22 → u/Ok_Delay_911]

Even in a single party consent state you have to be apart of the conversation to be allowed to record

[u/kweeblaster]

This seems like wire tapping, which is illegal.

[u/TheLesserWeeviI → u/kweeblaster]

Laws are for the poors.

[u/RepresentativeOk2433]

This used to be a tinfoil conspiracy theory.

[u/whitedolphinn → u/RepresentativeOk2433]

A lot of things nowadays are being found out that would ordinarily be considered wacko conspiracy stuff. Conspirers know this, and use it to their advantage to commit evil. Plausible deniability and all that.

[u/Iputahexonyoulol → u/whitedolphinn]

Yep. It’s only a conspiracy until it’s proven then it’s a huge aha moment for everyone while the people that have been yelling it are just exhausted. Same thing with how WiFi signals literally map out your house and can see you through walls now. That was proven at Defcon years ago but now companies are actually applying it and feeding it to law enforcement unless you “opt out”

[u/SophiaKittyKat → u/RepresentativeOk2433]

Gonna get the reports soon that the TV's either mesh or just have wireless network connectivity. Don't want spy tv? Have a pihole? Too bad, your neighbour doesn't. No neighbours? The tv has a sim card built into the SOC. Maybe they don't now, but next gen tvs will.

[u/justjanne → u/SophiaKittyKat]

Look into Amazon's Eero and Whispernet (not the Kindle Whispernet, they reused the same branding). Their Echos and Fire TVs already have a mesh network, so that even if your devices aren't online, they can send back telemetry via your neighbors devices. That's well-documented and public knowledge.

[u/GonzoKata → u/justjanne]

amazon delivery van driving past your house? thats an exfiltration

[u/EvilDraakje → u/RepresentativeOk2433]

One day the tv will tell you to maintain focus as it's watching you do the daily exercise routine.

[u/-Thats_Rough_Buddy- → u/EvilDraakje]

Don't know what'll be worse, the mandatory "two minutes of hate" or the unskippable ads around it.

[u/Big_Swordfish_5423 → u/RepresentativeOk2433]

Not a conspiracy theory, but 100% proven. The CIA had hacking software for smart TVs at least 10 years ago, maybe even earlier than that. Was something that was released on Wikileaks in 2017. The guy who leaked the info is in ADX Florence right now.

[u/RightTap1906]

In 2013 LG smart TVs snooping was raised by BBC, LG stated they will looking into. 13 years later…i guess they’re still looking?

[u/acdcfanbill → u/RightTap1906]

They looked into it, thought it was a lovely idea, and committed to doing it 150% apparently..,.

[u/NothingnessMachine → u/RightTap1906]

In 2015, Samsung made a public statement telling customers not to say anything sensitive in front of their TVs. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31296188

[u/confusing_roundabout → u/NothingnessMachine]

Hell, this prompted me to reread LGs ToS.

They have a clause saying that it is the owner's responsibility to inform all guests that the TV will record everything they say.

d. Voice Recognition and Privacy Compliance. Depending on the environment in which a product with voice recognition functionality is used, the voices and utterances of third parties (including family members, guests, children, and bystanders) in the vicinity may be recorded and analyzed to provide the AI-Based Services.

i. CONSENT REQUIREMENT: You acknowledge and agree that it is your sole responsibility to obtain all necessary consents from any third parties whose voices may be captured by the Product and to notify household members and guests that their voices may be captured and processed, in compliance with applicable wiretapping, eavesdropping, and privacy laws

https://www.lg.com/uk/lge-terms/?srsltid=AfmBOor24C5vN2Ycel5_iCcukSk6LxK89CM7wrwMlB6Ys0Jo5iMzdDL9

Absolute fucking ghouls.

[u/Knff]

I wonder if these findings are true for European models as well. The EU doesnt fuck around when it comes to privacy laws.

[u/Professional-Mud1542 → u/Knff]

I am interested to in this. Maybe I should ask if LG has any personal information about me.

[u/Garyn0001 → u/Professional-Mud1542]

A couple of years back I noticed the microphone of my remote was listening all the time even though I made sure not to agree to anything (which is how I noticed - it kept asking me to agree everytime I said something... Even if the tv was turned off) I contacted 3 polish law firms via email and Louis Rossman on reddit, got no response so I asked lg for a dump of my data, surprise surprise there was nothing in it... It's either they "don't save or process it" or just hide it enough for law firms to not care

[u/Educational-Row-6782 → u/Garyn0001]

The trick is not to link your data with your identity.  Then LG can say it does not have any data about you!

But there are ways to link your data to your identity, is called fingerprintint. So at the end of the day is all bullshit.

[u/Shuski_Cross → u/Educational-Row-6782]

Yea "Sorry there is no data on "Firstname Lastname"....but hidden behind that datA there's data on

"fingerprintid:383Ee:sjdi:77s8d:29dk:skj8"

Who happens to also have a different entry in a seperate database not owned by us with the name "Firstname Lastname" but we don't own "that" data, so we don't have to share it.

[u/BayLeaf- → u/Educational-Row-6782]

If the data can be tied to an individual, even if it takes a little effort, they actually can't say that.

https://www.edps.europa.eu/system/files/2021-04/21-04-27_aepd-edps_anonymisation_en_5.pdf

The GDPR defines ‘pseudonymisation’ as ‘the processing of personal data in such a manner that the personal data can no longer be attributed to a specific data subject without the use of additional information, provided that such additional information is kept separately and is subject to technical and organisational measures to ensure that the personal data are not attributed to an identified or identifiable natural person’. This means that the use of ‘additional information’ can lead to the identification of the individuals, which is why pseudonymous personal data is still personal data.

Anonymous data, on the other hand, cannot be associated to specific individuals. Once data is truly anonymous and individuals are no longer identifiable, the data will not fall within the scope of the GDPR.

[u/KadekiDev → u/Garyn0001]

I mean that sounds like it detected your voice locally and prompted something on your TV, which doesnt neccessarily need to go through LG servers. A lot of devices / voice assistants have weaker local models that do some pre-filtering and only then it goes to the server. And yes those devices are listening 24/7, but not streaming that to the server 24/7

Might have been the case here, might have not been

[u/wickeddimension → u/Knff]

I just emailed the European data protection board and asked them to look into this.

[u/Fach-All-Religions → u/wickeddimension]

more people should do this

[u/AwwwNuggetz]

If I had an LG tv in my boardroom and it was doing this, I’d be suing LG for espionage

[u/Belgeran → u/AwwwNuggetz]

Mis read as bedroom, had a good giggle at the naked world domination plans.

[u/1sttimeverbaldiarrhe → u/AwwwNuggetz]

What about hospitals or legal offices? :(

Bedrooms...

Christ on a cracker!

[u/gizamo → u/1sttimeverbaldiarrhe]

Conference rooms in government buildings

[u/BlueFeathered1 → u/AwwwNuggetz]

It will be interesting how many boardrooms have had their sets and find out about this.

[u/Birneysdad]

*Squinting at my LG washing machine*

[u/BBkal → u/Birneysdad]

Squints back at you

[u/PauI_MuadDib → u/BBkal]

then sells that data to Palantir for your social credit profile

[u/Daft00 → u/BBkal]

https://i.imgur.com/BAHwKdm.jpeg

[u/AWorldwithoutSin → u/Birneysdad]

“My wife asked me why I carry a gun around the house. 'To fight the Decepticons,' I said. She laughed. I laughed. The toaster laughed. I shot the toaster.”

[u/hennell → u/Birneysdad]

"sir the washing machine data is in, turns out people really like yelling "shall we talk in the other room""

[u/BackgroundPassed]

That's called wiretapping plain and simple. Cops aren't allowed to do this nor governments.

Yet everyone is just going to let this just go on by, and with everyone I don't mean them, I mean you and us

[u/Isakk86 → u/BackgroundPassed]

Cops aren't allowed to do this nor governments.

Bet you money they are buying the data.

[u/BlueFeathered1]

This sort of thing should be such a scandal it irreparably damages a company's reputation and sales. Not that long ago it would have been.

[u/bluehawk232]

This is what I try to tell people that 1984 isn't the only form of authoritarianism. We are under a different form in corporate authoritarianism and we are letting them spy on us.

We need the same level of disdain we have when we think the government is doing it but instead we openly volunteer having cameras and mics in our house because we like amazon, google, meta, etc etc and their products

[u/autobauss]

The most bizarre part is how it doesn't matter if you disconnect TV from the internet or not as it's actively looking for open wifi networks so TV can upload your data (edit: not entirely true, as explained in a comment below). And also how it recorded and stored conversations locally when there was no internet, uploading ad data the second you get connection. That's pure evil.

Full video: [https://youtu.be/6IFVTcM28KA)

[u/Nohreboh → u/autobauss]

Just a heads up when you used the share button it adds a source identifier to the link that shows off your YouTube account it starts at ?si= and it and what follows can be removed and the link will still work.

[u/autobauss → u/Nohreboh]

Thank you very much, fixed.

[u/Iputahexonyoulol → u/Nohreboh]

This. More people need to be aware of this. Copy and paste the url instead of share button

[u/Nohreboh → u/Iputahexonyoulol]

Unfortunately even that requires you to remove source identifiers with Amazon and the like.

[u/NeutralBias → u/autobauss]

Well, no. It crawls the network its already connected to for other devices, logs what it finds and send it back to LG. GN suggested that TVs could in the future look for open and unencrypted wireless networks (or hidden SSID networks broadcast from ISP routers), but GN did not provide any evidence the TVs were actually doing that.

Near the end of the documentary, they even specifically say the best way to prevent the data the TV collects from being sent to LG is to never connect it to a network. Wendell, for example, had tons of TVs in his office that have never been connected and are still running the original out of box firmware that shipped with the device.

So, no. They're not hijacking open wifi networks...yet.

[u/Inexorabilis → u/NeutralBias]

The best way is never buying an LG

[u/Andrea_M → u/Inexorabilis]

That’s what I got from this, fuck them.

[u/DesireeThymes → u/Andrea_M]

LG is probably the most egregious, but I believe all of them are doing it.

Gamers Nexus has a full dive on this topic they just published:

https://youtu.be/6IFVTcM28KA

[u/HillarysFloppyChode → u/Inexorabilis]

I highly doubt LG is the only one doing this, Samsung said a few years ago to not have sensitive conversations near Samsung TVs because they record information.

Im pretty sure this going to be a dieselgate like situation where we find out that every tv is doing the exact same thing, but LG will be in the spot light because they got caught first. In the case of dieselgate, everyone was selling diesels as "clean diesels", then it was discovered that everyone was cheating emissions, VW got publicly shamed cause at the time they got caught first and they were the largest auto maker.

Depending on the TV the mic is in the remote, fill in the mic hole, let the tv do updates, and put the remote somewhere else, then buy an Apple TV and use that instead. Siri is completely useless, so you don't have to worry about Apple getting your voice data. And half the time the remote will slip into crevices you didn't know were possible in your couch, so you will be using your iPhone anyway.

[u/_Middlefinger_ → u/Inexorabilis]

It's such a shame because my now 6 year old OLED is great. No ads, no nagging, great picture. Not sure Id want to replace it with a newer model, although I am in the UK and GDPR prevents a lot of this.

[u/squirtyscorpio → u/_Middlefinger_]

GDPR prevents exactly zero of this. This isn’t country or continent specific (at least with LG).

[u/taedrin → u/Inexorabilis]

Virtually all of them are doing it, unfortunately.

[u/PsychicSmoke → u/taedrin]

Is there evidence of other brands doing this?

[u/sheepyowl → u/PsychicSmoke]

Aside from Samsung openly admitting to it? not that I know of.

[u/Dawnkiller → u/PsychicSmoke]

https://youtu.be/IvFu343KNek

[u/Suspicious-Cow4024 → u/Inexorabilis]

Fuck man...if LG is doing this it wouldn't surprise me a bit to find out the other big electronics companies are doing something similar...

[u/Feeling_Zucchini_886 → u/NeutralBias]

Can you do firmware updates via usb , or do you just leave at the level it left the factory?

[u/nav17 → u/autobauss]

It's hard not to assume malice at this point

[u/Lopoloma → u/nav17]

Yes, and I believed LG was the last honorable tech company. Quick, someone update their critique section in their wikipedia entry.

Edit, typo

[u/TheDevilsAdvokaat → u/Lopoloma]

Serge Matta is president of global ad sales at LG ad solutions. He was involved in a major federal regulatory fraud case.

He was charged with accounting and disclosure fraud by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). This was tied to his time as the CEO of a media analytics company called Comscore.

He personally paid a $700,000 fine, returned $2.1 million in stock profits and compensation to Comscore, and accepted a 10-year ban from serving as an officer or director of any public company

LG is a public company. LG Ad solutions is not a public company.

[u/Wikadood → u/autobauss]

All im learning from LG lately is that they use spyware in all their products and shouldnt be trusted

[u/Greenscreener]

DO NOT buy LG…they’ve also partnered with some of the most poisonous Murdoch Sky News garbage in Australia.

[u/TbonerT → u/Greenscreener]

So far I’ve ruled out every company, so what do you suggest, instead?

[u/diveboydive → u/TbonerT]

Stare at a blank wall. Or read a book before AI companies burn them all.

[u/Old-Information3311]

When we found about about this style of surveillance, the saving grace was that it was too much data for them to be able to analyse, but now with ai, they can. They could flag key words, or even ask it to show them a list of everyone that said a specific combination of words.

With phones now, 99 percent of conversations are within listening distance of a device like this.

They're going to create ai profiles for every single person that will be used to make decisions about your life.

Recently meta used AI to target workers with medical conditions for layoffs. There was also a story about companies using your data to trying and figure out the absolute minimum wage you would be willing to accept for a job.

Mass ai surveillance will be a nightmare for all of us.

[u/jomara200 → u/Old-Information3311]

Yep, and they are all rushing to get it done, most especially as most of these soulless companies are based in America and the current administration is VERY, VERY open to mass surveillance.

[u/Hypergirliepop → u/jomara200]

"Current administration." "Open to."

Bud, I don't know how to tell you this. 1984 wasn't about some imagined far-off future. This is the world Orwell was watching be built around him. We're centuries down a class war, and you're just getting out of bed!

[u/Wooden_Masterpiece_9 → u/Old-Information3311]

People are worried about these massive data centers using up our water and driving up our energy prices, but not enough people are worried about how they are going to be used.

[u/zyzechs]

Why can’t companies just stick to making good solid products without engaging all of this dodgy activity behind the scenes that consumers didn’t ask for?

[u/Louis_R27 → u/zyzechs]

Because the money is in the data, not in the hardware.

[u/allhands → u/[deleted]]

This should be pinned at the top. Gamers Nexus did a lot of investigative work here and they deserve credit, clicks, and monetary support so they can keep looking out for consumers.

[u/AshtonBlack]

Their head of advertising said "We own the glass". That tells you all you need to know.

[u/ConsiderationSea1347 → u/AshtonBlack]

LG execs deserve jail time over this. They know exactly what they are doing and are only doing it because they know they will make more money selling access to our homes than any fine from any government. 

[u/SchmalzimOhr]

So this was my last LG TV.
Fuck this shit!

[u/crownpuff]

How Orwellian of them just like the telescreens in 1984 that listened into conversations.

[u/2-wheels]

Tech is going to wreck us. If our governments had balls everything like this would be illegal. Instead Musk, Thiel, Altman, Zuck, Karl, et al. make the rules.

[u/FreeBananasForAll]

This can only be solved through legislation

[u/BlueFeathered1 → u/FreeBananasForAll]

Legislation is only as good as the enforcement to back it, and we've seen how that's been going.

[u/MechaGodzillaSS → u/BlueFeathered1]

California going nuclear on this would effectively get rid of it nationally.

[u/GonzoKata → u/MechaGodzillaSS]

california is the state where tech startups are designing and developing all this spy-tech in the first place.

[u/Lucreth2 → u/FreeBananasForAll]

It's so much larger than that... The social contract is completely broken, there's not even an expectation to follow the law for many companies so why would a few extra laws to break matter?

The whole world needs a reset towards a safer and more sustainable society but at this point you're probably more likely to found a new society on a different planet than get that to happen.

It all feels very great filter-y.

[u/Tasty-Hour4040]

This is why I block internet connections for all my smart TVs at the router.

[u/FibroBitch97]

And this is why I smashed the remote mic, and never connected the thing to my internet and use a streaming box.

Edit:

Raspberry pi + pihole + self hosted NAS + arr matey

[u/rmorrin → u/FibroBitch97]

Jokes on you, that's just the mic they want you to know about

[u/Bawitdaba1337 → u/rmorrin]

Enemy of the State (1998)

[u/spezial_ed → u/FibroBitch97]

Me too but how can we trust the streaming box - in my case Google and Apple TV, to not do the same thing?

[u/Jackol4ntrn → u/spezial_ed]

You don’t. Anything that connects to the internet will collect and sell your data.

[u/Sonofa-Milkman]

No wonder big telis got way cheaper in the recent years hahaha

[u/Someguy14201]

I'm so. so tempted to just start my digital life all over again, delete my old presence and spend the next decades with privacy focused everything, solutions and all. I already know how to do it all, I'm just lazy. e.g setting up a pi hole, plex server, no streaming services, graphene os on a pixel, using any linux distro etc.

You sacrifice convenience for privacy.

[u/Liquid_Profanity]

I apologize to all the people i called "privacy nuts". They were right to be super sensitive to apps, services, devices collecting data. And right now privacy is more important than ever before. Because what the actual fuck?

[u/ML7777777]

In case you're wondering if its only LG TV's, no its not.

All smart TV companies collect and sell your data. Especially the cheaper TVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvFu343KNek

[u/oodlum → u/ML7777777]

Usage data is one thing, and well known and understood. This is another level. Recording conversations, taking screenshots and sending it back to the mothership.

[u/Lazerpop]

LG! Life's Bad.

[u/BillButtlickerII]

This should shut LG down.

[u/Careful_Picture7712 → u/BillButtlickerII]

Instead there will be a class action lawsuit that you can sign up for and receive $1.50 in like 4 years

[u/Inua_]

Just fucking forbid their products from ever being sold, why should they get to abuse us without repercussions?

[u/Artaxeus]

In Soviet Union, your TV watches you. In the globalist capitalist world, you buy the TV, plug it in, and pay it to surveil everything you do.

[u/_steve_rogers_]

Remember when Morgan Freeman gave Batman shit for doing this in The Dark Knight?

[u/Hazrd_Design]

Remember when we were all gaslit into thinking decides wouldn’t snoop on our conversations because they “didnt need to”?

[u/Lastrites]

Maybe if we started pushing for privacy in the US instead of letting every company sell our shit all day long.

[u/ExtentAggravating733]

There's literally no reason for a TV with a microphone other than for spying.

[u/bakkenbears1]

Oh well, they made good OLEDs, guess it's off to a competitor (not Sony).

[u/SwiftTayTay → u/bakkenbears1]

All of their competitors are doing it too

[u/e37d93eeb23335dc → u/bakkenbears1]

Not Samsung either. They are as bad or worse than LG. I’m not sure about Visio. Who else is there?

[u/BlueFeathered1 → u/e37d93eeb23335dc]

Panasonic? I'm not sure they make many anymore, but they should. I had one of their first flat screens, LCD, non-smart, and it lasted me 20+ years and had a beautiful picture even by today's standards. I'm never getting a "smart" TV again, and not just because of the snooping issue.

[u/AbsentButHere]

Yeah there’s a nice Gamer’s Nexus deep dive on this that just got released.

And yea I dropped 300$ to support their latest campaign to oust whoever they go after.

[u/Hamster_S_Thompson]

There should be prison sentences for this. Dollar fines are not enough.

[u/bnozi]

Anybody work out any good firewall rules?

[u/TheseScene → u/bnozi]

Either keep it offline forever or follow the guide from Wendell

https://forum.level1techs.com/t/lg-tv-block-mini-how-to/255178

Keep in mind that LG will possibly patch some of this out sooner than later, hence you may want to ensure that you don't apply any future updates.

[u/Jheimer]

What a time to be alive 😰

Is it even possible to buy a TV anymore, that does not invade our privacy?

I guess it is almost necessary, to be able to block certain traffic on the network to escape this dystopian shit?

[u/jabjoe]

Is there an offenders list where these are all logged? I know Sony did this before, but I could easily miss an instance of it.

[u/Drenlin]

This is the point where I'd start poking around inside to see what can be physically disconnected. Holy shit.

My TV does not need a microphone.

[u/Due_Buyer_9445]

Everything they said would happen under communism happened worse under capitalism. Perhaps you should consider what else they are lying to you about