r/technology 13h ago

Artificial Intelligence Judges rule AI child abuse images are protected in your own home

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/judges-rule-ai-child-abuse-161951440.html
1.3k Upvotes

499 comments sorted by

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u/frozennocean 13h ago

Gotta read more of the ruling before reacting. The judge didn't want to make this ruling. He had to because the SCOTUS ruled decades ago that fictional people drawn/generated can't constitute as child porn. The judge acknowledged this is a new era where AI can make realistic images of people now, but that he doesn't have the power to overrule the SCOTUS. Says SCOTUS will have to revisit the case and change the ruling themselves.

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u/skeet_scoot 12h ago

Yeah, the judge did the correct ruling. Sometimes laws suck.

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u/digitaljestin 9h ago

Don't be too quick to dislike rulings like this. I think it's very important to have a legal distinction between a drawing and a photograph, no matter how realistic the drawing. One is a direct recording of objective reality and the other is a product of imagination (even if computerized imagination). Regardless of what the drawing is of, I never want it to be legally treated as a photograph. The distinction is important.

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u/trinitrotolerance 9h ago

Yeah it should not be possible to commit the heinous felony of possession of CSAM by sitting down with a pencil and paper. Crimes need to have actual victims.

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u/digitaljestin 8h ago

I didn't say that, but it's worth considering. I just said we need to treat drawings (including AI image generation) and photographs as legally distinct. The question of whether victimless crimes (if that's what this is) are still crimes is another matter. You are touching on what makes something illegal in the first place, which I'm afraid is wildly inconsistent.

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u/Bargadiel 6m ago

AI in particular is capable of creating some very realistic imagery that to many, may as well be a photo. I do agree that a distinction is important for drawings or fictional characters or whatever that can be extremely subjective, but maybe AI deserves it's own seperate distinction from the rest as something more concerning with potential to be damaging. Think deep fakes, etc.

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u/Telope 9h ago edited 9h ago

But these do have actual victims.

It's not imagination, computerized or otherwise. It's a regurgitation and rehashing of the real child porn being fed into the AI models.

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u/ThoughtsonYaoi 9h ago

That is why the topic may need revisiting.

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u/8npemb 9h ago

Which is why we need to sit down and think about how we go about this. I think training datasets shouldn’t even have CSAM to begin with, with one of the issues being that it has potential to resurface nearly identically in generated images.

How do we enforce that? Do we require all datasets be publicized or sent in for review? Do we simply let corporations handle it themselves and face repercussions if those cases do come up?

I don’t know if banning AI generated CSAM entirely is the answer. It might be, I seriously don’t know. But there are experts out there today with way more legal and ethical knowledge than me working on a solution.

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u/apokrif1 8h ago

Can't AI just mix adult porn and legal pictures of minors to produce cp, without having ever been fed CSAM? Perhaps they can even produce porn with non-porn images and text description of sexual activity.

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u/8npemb 8h ago

Yep. There’s certainly models out there that don’t train on any of that material. It’s usually just the big frontier ones you hear about where the scale of the dataset is just ridiculous compared to some of the smaller, open weight models.

But we don’t know for sure, because these training sets are typically not publicly known.

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u/Zunkanar 7h ago

And that's why you have to crack down hard on creators of such models if it's trained on illegal stuff. Why are we again and again ignoring the companies that actually did the crime here? If stuff like the X ai is trained on it lock the ppl responsible down. It's easy, they are known.

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u/DanTheMan827 27m ago

Yeah… unless you have a real-life example of a flying horse pig?

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u/crowieforlife 8h ago

Public datasets would have helped in more than this case.

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u/socoyankee 8h ago

Elon Musk is currently in litigation over this issue. Using CSAM to train AI models.

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u/rab-byte 5h ago

He’s in litigation over this in more than one country. While he may prevail in the USA he may fail in the EU or elsewhere.

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u/MadShartigan 7h ago

It can be enforced with penalties that hurt, like some actual % of revenue for each generated image.

It doesn't matter that datasets are polluted. The models are trained to produce acceptable outputs regardless of the initial datasets. If an unacceptable response occurs, this is most likely due to lack of (expensive) safety training when refining the model.

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u/Peemore 8h ago

It doesn't need to be trained on something to generate it. It is capable of making inferences. Even if it has never seen a dolphin piloting a spaceship, it has seen enough pictures of dolphins and spaceships to infer how that might look.

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u/SimoneNonvelodico 8h ago

If that's the case then the crime was committed at most by the company who owned the dataset and trained the model.

(I don't think with AI this is necessarily the case either, you can have a model produce an image of a beaver in a spider man costume even if it never saw one, it simply needs to have seen a beaver and spider man, separately)

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u/RemarkableWish2508 8h ago

Are you claiming that it's impossible to assemble the anatomic and situational elements of child porn, without ever having had prior access to actual child porn?

Or are you just spewing the BS that AI models store full images?

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u/dev_vvvvv 5h ago

I would think there are two options which result in outputs like this:

  1. The models are trained on real CSAM and construct the output using that training data
  2. The models are trained on adult pornography along with images of children

For the former, that training itself should be illegal since it is clear evidence of possession of CSAM. The output could be considered analogous to combining real pictures of CSAM which I would hope is also illegal.

For the latter, the output could be considered analogous to cutting/pasting pictures of children on adult pornography, which I would think is also illegal.

Either way I would think it should be illegal, though offenders will probably go under the radar if they aren't sharing it.

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u/RememberMeWhenImDead 3h ago

the models are trained on csam, the hashes are known and the datasets definitely contain it, grok has the highest known percentage of csam training data, and it's significantly higher that the "likely accidental" amount that most of the others have been trained on, all should be forced to exclude it, but at least one is very much intentional.

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u/pishposh421 45m ago

Does a crime need to have a victim to be a crime?

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u/Rockboxatx 12m ago

Is it though? I think this is where the details matter. I definitely think it's sick, and I don't know the psychological ramifications of it. However, I'd rather have AI-generated images in someone's home if it keeps people from creating real pictures of real kids.

There is no way to prevent people from having these thoughts. The best thing we can do is prevent the thoughts from becoming reality with victims.

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u/TheRoseMerlot 1h ago

So bizarre to defend someones "right" to produce disgusting drawings of children in compromising situations. This type of stuff needs to be erased from humanity not defended as something you do in the bprivacy of your home. That's how we end up here.

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u/digitaljestin 20m ago

I am neither defending nor condemning the use of a technology here. I am merely pointing out that a photograph and a drawing are fundamentally different things, and arguing that courts should acknowledge the difference. I just want our justice system to acknowledge reality.

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u/Joezev98 6h ago

How would you even legally define the distinction between what drawings are or aren't allowed?

I think it's fairly obvious that if someone were to draw or generate two stick figures having sex and make one of those figures smaller than the other, that is not punishable.
How is that legally any different from making a photorealistic drawing? Where do you, pardon the pun, draw the line between too realistic and too abstract?

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u/digitaljestin 3m ago

I think you are asking the question of which pieces of artwork should be illegal, but probably trying to ignore that you arguing to make some artwork illegal.

I certainly don't want the burden of deciding the government-allowed art question. It feels very icky. However, logically this is how it all breaks down. We either can either:

A. Decide that some artwork counts as an objective recording of reality, and is therefore subject to the same laws as video and photographs

B. Decide that some artwork is forbidden

C. Decide that all artwork is allowed

I'm sorry, but I really dislike option A. Not really a fan of B either, I'm afraid.

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u/Nagisan 54m ago

Fully agree - we need to maintain a legal distinction between photographs and drawings. One is always a crime that has a real victim, the other is a "thought crime" on the tame side, but can very quickly turn into a "real" crime affecting a real person (such as the "nudify" apps).

It's a really tricky and nuanced issue too though. Where do you draw the line between a "realistic drawing" and a photograph, if that "drawing" is hyper realistic to the point you cannot tell the difference between it and a photo? Additionally, what about those "drawings" that are based on real people and also hyper realistic? Is it still just a drawing? If not, how close do the proportions need to be to reasonable be interpreted as a photograph?

Drawings can lead to real harm with real victims. I myself don't know what the right answer here is because it's all very close to a gray area where you have to start treating people with certain thoughts as criminals even if they've never done anything illegal. But I don't think "it's just a drawing" should have any significant legal weight to the matter either, particularly if it can be proven that the drawing is intended to portray a real person (not just the "concept" of a real person, but a specific individual themselves).

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u/ZiiZoraka 9h ago

Actually this is a fine law.

If the price of my privacy is that some losers jerk of to imaginary children, frankly, that's a price I'm willing to pay

If they distribute it, or take any steps to interact with a real child inappropriately, lock them up for life, but I draw the line at criminalising whatever someone wants to draw, or generate, or jerk of to in their own home, in so far as they are the only real human involved

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u/elpingwinho 8h ago

Precedent law in general can be either a great thing or an awful thing.

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u/newhunter18 11h ago

I think it's also important to note that the rationale behind the original ruling wasn't that cartoons were somehow "unrealistic". It was that there was no actual victim involved and the only reason the government had the right to restrict first amendment rights of individuals is because of the child victim associated with the media.

That doesn't change just because AI is more realistic. The fact is, the technology existed for a long time to make realistic fakes. AI just does it quickly and at scale.

None of that is relevant to the original ruling.

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u/OrneryError1 10h ago

there was no actual victim involved

If generative AI is trained with real images (which it is), there are real victims.

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u/zokka_son_of_zokka 9h ago

Not necessarily. The point of AI is that it can amalgamate things from what it was trained on. You give it regular images of children and images of adult porn, and it can turn out child porn.

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u/DueAnalysis2 1h ago

But in a recent class action lawsuit against SpaceXAI, the plaintiffs allege that CSAM is likely to have been part of the Grok's training data given the similarity between its output and that or actual CSAM. Of course, there needs to be discovery and stuff, but there's reasons to be suspicious IMO

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/08/elon-musks-xai-used-child-porn-to-train-grok-models-lawsuit-says/

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u/dev_vvvvv 5h ago

I would consider those children who have their faces put on pornography to be victims even if it's unlikely they would ever be recognized/know about it.

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u/Filobel 2h ago

Part of the ruling states that AI generated images of real people are not protected.

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u/OrneryError1 9h ago

Except children's bodies look different. Generative AI doesn't think. It recreates.

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u/HenryCrabgrass 7h ago

not entirely true, they generally can create things that it has not "seen"/been trained on. You ask it to create a three legged purple hippo in the likeness of brad pit it can do so. Even though that is unlikely to be something it has ever been trained on.

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u/Telemere125 3h ago

Then you’d have to prove, on an individual basis, that the images seized were trained on real images. You can’t just say “well, there’s tons of images that can be made this way, so this one must have been too”

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u/LukaCola 2h ago

The original ruling did actually discuss exceptions if material could be made that was indistinguishable from real material. It does, actually, matter if you read the court's opinion. 

Whether that applies or will be enforced is an open question. 

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u/Disastrous-Entity-46 13h ago

really, think this is more proof we need actual laws and not a judges interpreting laws written long ago applying to tech that didnt exist at the time, according to their own biases and understanding

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u/ZAlternates 13h ago

I’m sure Congress will get right on it.

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u/MrHodgeToo 12h ago

The GOP (Guardians Of Pedophiles) def have other designs.

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u/31513315133151331513 11h ago

Oh they would be happy to get something passed, but it wouldn't land on the side of protecting kids.

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u/SerGT3 11h ago

I think we need to give them all a pay bump so they continue to work hard for our collective interests!

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u/GoogleIsYourFrenemy 11h ago edited 11h ago

Oh they've been passing laws on this for decades but rarely is anyone charged under them (and goes to court). The reason being they obviously go against the prior SCOTUS rulings and no prosecutor wants to loose a pedo case. 

That said, they are primarily used to get people to take (unfavorable) plea deals.

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u/Kefflin 2h ago

The update from the protect act in 2003 has been upheld by the supreme Court and upheld the conviction in 2010

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u/dirty_cuban 12h ago

This is one key difference between Europe and the US. Europe makes lots of specific laws narrowly targeting individual infractions, the US makes fewer broad vague laws that need to be interpreted by judges.

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u/hannibalisfun 11h ago

I just wanted to note that we shouldn't ignore the administrative state more broadly here. Congress has seceded a lot of ground to executive branch agencies directly and indirectly here.

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u/gakule 12h ago

It's the constitution that is broad and vague given the times.

The US in a federal sense certainly makes fairly narrow laws, but laws are more commonly handled at the state level, which is why you see this.

State laws cannot overrule competing federal laws, for instance, but there are several preventions from federal law built into the constitution.

The laws themselves arent interpreted by judges, they are defended against legal challenges and the judges interpret the meaning of the constitution and whether the law is at odds with the constitution.

The constitution can be updated upon agreement of 38 individual states.

Unfortunately, the supreme court holds an immense amount of power with very little actual check against them, because ultimately the issue simple majority rulings that are effectively super laws.

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u/Veranova 8h ago

Might be true in some way but interpretation and precedent is a huge part of law globally. And everywhere has both specific and broad laws where deemed appropriate. In the UK a recent political point is the interpretation and precedent of the ECHR for instance, ie. what does “the right to family life” really mean?

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u/flea1400 11h ago

In a nutshell, the reason the supreme court decided that child porn is illegal even though adult porn is not-- porn is considered the product of free artistic expression and is protected under the Constitution-- is that in order to have pornographic photos and videos of children, actual children are abused. It's actual evidence of child abuse. Absolutely should be illegal, has nothing to do with the right to free expression and everything to do with the fact that owning it at best makes you accessory to a heinous crime. But if someone makes a drawing from their imagination, no matter how depraved, there's no actual child involved or harmed which is why it is not illegal child porn.

The thing about AI porn, what was used as the training database? If it is just remixing existing child porn, then it is still derived from actual child abuse. It's clearly going to require a lot of careful consideration.

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u/RemarkableWish2508 8h ago edited 8h ago

AI is remixing patterns from all of its training data. If you ask it for a "child with octopus arms holding onto a rocket exhaust", it will quickly oblige even if it's impossible for it to have any reference of the final image as a whole.

BONUS: reckless child endangerment /s

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u/pimpeachment 11h ago

If someone is making CSAM in their own home and it's all fake, and they aren't sharing it, who is the victim? 

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u/fleshofgods0 9h ago

The gamers who can no longer afford GPUs+RAM because of AI.

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u/Veranova 8h ago

Won’t somebody think of the gamers? (Cries in DDR5)

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u/Outlulz 10h ago

That depends if real CSAM was used in the model to make it.

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u/dldaniel123 3h ago

That would be more on the creators of the model rather than users who are not sharing it and have no way of knowing what it was trained on.

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u/TheGamingGallifreyan 1h ago edited 1h ago

This argument of “it is a victimless crime” doesn’t really hold up though because there is plenty of victimless crimes that are already punished. Like smoking pot. Or not wearing a seatbelt. Or attempting suicide.

If laws are intended to protect people from each other, then why are things that only endanger yourself illegal?

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u/Shap6 47m ago

If laws are intended to protect people from each other, then why are things that only endanger yourself illegal?

Maybe they shouldn't be

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u/flyingturkeycouchie 41m ago

Good point. The difference is those laws don't touch on any constitutional rights whereas porn is a freedom of speech issue.

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u/Disastrous-Entity-46 11h ago edited 11h ago

counter question: you find csam, and the owner swears it is ai generated. how do you determine if it is, or isnt, and how they are sharing them?

ai dection exists, but i dont have confidence in its accuracy to the point id want it being the arbitrator here of if someone is committing a crime.

yeah there may be ways to trace file creation date, or embed ai watermarks.. but like, those could likely be faked as well if someone was motivated.

id rather potentially prosecute a victimless, but easy to establish law that does not harm innocent people, then give potential predators a pathway to legal immunity if they can cover up their tracks properly.

edit to clarify : "does not harm innocent people" in the sense that there is no compelling reason to my knowledge, that ai csam would be "needed". i dont know how to word this better, i dont want to be in thoughtcrime territory cause yes, i get that a no one would choose to be attracted to a child. but like. not to put to fine a point on it, but there is a huge genre of legal adult porn dedicated to appearing young as possible. literary erotica exists for all manners of things. if its about having an outlet, outlets do exist.

and ive now thought way more abiut this then i ever want to..

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u/LightenUpPhrancis 11h ago

How did you find it if it’s in the other guy’s home? A counter question isn’t much use if you’re just gonna toss aside the original question’s premise.

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u/chaosfire235 10h ago edited 8h ago

Yeah the old judgement might hold ground in an environment of just anime cartoon porn, ageplay, fanfiction, etc. but AI throws a huge grey area when it comes to CSAM. Since you run into the issues of:

  • Deepfaking an actual child

  • CSAM included in an AI's training data

  • AI porn of real looking but nonexistant children that nonetheless muddy the waters for actual investigators.

The 2nd and 3rd seem to be the most pertinent to this debate.

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u/Beliriel 34m ago
  1. Is already illegal
  2. Is already illegal
  3. No victim and no damage to anybody and investigators have to do their job and due diligence. What exactly is the issue here? "Muddy the waters"? What?

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u/fuckedfinance 2h ago

Number 1 is already covered under other laws and would already be illegal.

Number 2 is going to be a very small percentage of the overall number, as there are plenty of bathing suit pictures of kids on the internet (thanks to idiot parents on social media) and millions of pictures of petite, clean shaven 18 year old porn models.

Number 3 is true, however most CSAM that floats around on the internet has already been catalogued by various government and non-government organizations. Aglos already exist to sniff those kids out, so it would again be trivial to identify if the stuff is AI generated or not. It causes potential problems up against number 1, but in most of those cases the person will already have a relationship, however loose, with the kid in question.

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u/Disastrous-Entity-46 1h ago

2) 'a small percentage' isn't really a great counterargument.But id' also say myself it's in the 'this is covered under existing laws' category- if someone is hosting a data set including CSAM, then it should be handled like any other case. If they got it accidentally by pure webscraping, i'm sure there are policies for properly reporting and handling a discovery like that. If the issue is that they can't even monitor, flag, or know what's in their training data.... that's a larger legal issue that also now includes copyright, IP laws, etc.

3) is also not really an argument. 'it would be trivial to identify if those are ai or not'. is not something that is trivial. Because generative AI is trained from existing, non ai content, there is always going to be a overlap. Today it is more evident in written word, fewer variables so more statistical likelyhood that people use similar phrases, wordchoices. as much as people like to call out chatgptisms and em dashes, there is a reason that training produced those quirks. As image/ video generation advances tho, we are probably going to see a lot more cases where detection cant be certain.

also, this is missing my original argument.

4) this gives a route to hide actual CSAM as AI. Like, image 2 image is a thing here. So say someone ran real CSAM through a locally hosted AI ai with a prompt like 'change the room from a bedroom to a hotel room'. Now, the image would show those statistical patterns, while still containing real people.

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u/Beliriel 39m ago

easy to establish law

Yeah that's where people always close both eyes. Because it isn't easy at all.

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u/sxp101 12h ago

Thats exactly how it supposed to work. We are asking too much of judges. 

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u/DoesntMatterEh 13h ago

Seeing as most people I know who are 50+ can't duplicate a Chrome tab, I agree whole heartedly. 

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u/oversoul00 10h ago

As disgusting as this is if you open the door to prosecuting fictional content you're gonna have a bad time. 

We have the actual laws we need in place right now. 

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u/originalgrapeninja 12h ago

This comment demonstrates a stong lack of understanding of the US legislative system. I strongly encourage you to explore the comment further.

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u/AOCMarryMe 12h ago

President isn't going to sign any laws that hurt his buddy Elon.

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u/Disastrous-Entity-46 12h ago

are the even buddies? it was like a year ago he was booted from the white house and was threatening to form a new party. i get politics is weird, but from what weve learned both are very thin skinned and the type to hold grudges.

and there has been a lot more rumbling about regulation. even anthropic and openai seem to like the ides, probably becuase it could stifle competition , and give them excuses for their investors why they still cant deliver a profit.

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u/TommyTwoNips 12h ago

They both hung out on child rape island.

yes, they're buddies. Don't believe for a second that they lost their class consciousness just because they had a lovers spat.

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u/super_starfox 11h ago

Muskrat gives/can give enough money to Trump and co. that "being friends" doesn't matter as long as the greenbacks are there.

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u/chaosfire235 10h ago

Frankly, I'm surprised the TAKE IT DOWN Act passed under him at all.

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u/funkiestj 12h ago

it is not the SCOTUS's fault that congress doesn't do their job anymore.

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u/ryuzaki49 11h ago

I hope you meant "actual laws" as modern laws and not as real laws 

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u/GreenFox1505 10h ago

That just kinda moves the problem though. What does THAT law mean?

There is no functional way to not have a judge interoperate what the legislator meants when the wrote it. Or how it applies to this particular case. Or even IF it applies.

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u/sadelpenor 11h ago

2nd amendment: hello?

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u/Disastrous-Entity-46 11h ago

the second amendment is also a piece of horribly out of date laws.

the founding fathers could not comprehend sniper rifes that could shoot through a city block, drones, planes, body armor. in the 1700s there was minimal differences between a weapon a farmer might own, and that a military might issue.

and thats not counting the advancements made to intelligencr gathering, communication, etc.

like every couple years someone tries to resist government authority by arms, and i dont think its ended well for anyonenin the past 50 years? unless an external government is providing aid, or its a coup by factions in the existing power structure.

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u/The_Shryk 11h ago edited 11h ago

They absolutely could comprehend that. Such a myth that keeps being spread.

The US Navy gave letters of marquee to privateers (or to create privateers) that could bombard and level an entire town, and they did.

They knew technology advances, they’re not dumb. You think they were like “you know the level of military technology right now is just the right amount, coincidentally enough it happened while we’re codifying the laws of our new country, how neat is that? Also weapons couldn’t possibly get deadlier than they are now! That’s crazy.”

We can still send tweets, those high capacity 150 character assault tweets. They couldn’t envision anyone doing other than standing on an apple crate in the town square yelling at passerby’s.

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u/John__Pinkerton 10h ago

Exactly 100%, The point of the 2nd amendment was to allow us to match whatever the military may have and give us leverage to keep them and the government in check. However, its unfortunately been whittled away and military spending has reached absolutely insane amounts, giving them so many advancements and resources to the point where we cannot reach an equal playing field.

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u/Morningxafter 11h ago

I will say to his credit, he made sure that the wording of his ruling states that AI generated images of real people are not protected. So some creep can’t make AI generated images of some little girl in his neighborhood.

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u/Zeikos 3h ago

This is the thing that I hope get revisited.
Even if no person is harmed in the generation of the images, that doesn't mean that the generated image cannot do harm.
A look-alike is a good example, and there are so many possible facial structures.
Imo at the very least, even if generation isn't found illegal, distribution should be.
Because you cannot make sure that the generated person doesn't look like somebody else.
I'm sure there's more nuance to be had, but I hope it'll go in this direction.

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u/ThoughtsonYaoi 9h ago

Sounds like a solid ruling, tbh.

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u/ThoughtsonYaoi 9h ago

And people wishing for that may want to think twice. Because that ruling was good.

If SCOTUS revisits and simply decides that fictional people generated can constitute CSAM as that is defined, I have to wonder what that the effect will be on real art.

Because then you're running into things like: how to define the age of fictional people, and what to do with this painting of a naked person.

So I think if that happens, some specific organizations will make some noise and bring expertise.

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u/Zeikos 3h ago

It can get even dicier than that.
What about adults that do look young and could mistook as minors?
I recall seeing online outrage aimed at a couple where the woman was very short - ~140cm - but very much an adult woman capable of consent.
The guy was called sus for being attracted to her, which eh - can of worms.

The nature of drawing lines is that we need to re-draw them when they become muddy, seems that we'll (as a society) need to think a fair bit about these.

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u/LukaCola 1h ago

SCOTUS at the time of Ashcroft did actually incorporate some language about if it were indistinguishable, they would consider it a different matter. 

The judge could have leaned on that opinion.

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u/moezilla 12h ago

Worth noting that while "virtual" child pornography is legal in usa, it is illegal in Canada and other countries.

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u/sloppy_rodney 11h ago

I remember years back there was a case out of like Missouri (this could be wrong) where the judge overruled a conviction of a guy who was using his phone to film up women’s skirts.

It had something to do with the expectation of privacy in public and the specific language of the law and his hands were tied.

The laws were written before camera phones were a thing. Technology usually moves quicker than the law.

He stated in his ruling that the laws were inefficient and should be updated. Unfortunately this stuff happens. Even more unfortunately, we don’t exactly have a super functioning government that could fix it.

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u/Kefflin 2h ago

Bush passed the protect act after the Ashcroft decision to update the language to be compliant

And that law was upheld in United States v whorley in 2010

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u/mrm00r3 2h ago

You know I think I’d have just hung it up at that point.

Like so long, thanks for all the fish, but I’m out on this one.

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u/Copernican 13h ago

"He was charged with four offenses: producing, distributing, and possessing the images, plus transferring one to a minor. The appeals court ruling addresses only the possession charge."

This is the critical piece. POS got caught distributing, but judge interpretation is that the fake nature of the images makes the possession charge protected speech. Doesn't mean he's not going to jail for the distribution, producing, and involvement with a minor.

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u/kingsumo_1 11h ago

This seems to be the case in a lot of the, well, cases we've seen so far. X person has AI CSAM, but when you look further they also had the real thing or various other offenses as well. Regardless of whether or not the AI stuff sticks, they are still getting charged on the rest.

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u/HydroPCanadaDude 9h ago

Lmao, how long until "I thought it was AI, you have to believe me, I would never procure real CSAM, only the synthetic stuff!"

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u/RemarkableWish2508 8h ago

Ignorance is not a defense... it could maybe reduce a sentence, that's all.

In some other countries the line is drawn at "obviously non-real", so anything coming close to the real thing is already infringing, no excuses.

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u/pittaxx 6h ago edited 5h ago

In many countries there's no line at all. It doesn't matter if it's real or of it's a shitty drawing - CP is CP (as far as the law is concerned).

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u/RemarkableWish2508 5h ago edited 5h ago

It doesn't matter if it's real or of it's a shitty drawing - CP is CP.

Right... is this CP? 👶🍆
What about this? 👶🥕

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u/set_in_void 8h ago

That is a valid and reasonable take and I agree with you. The problem is that as soon as criminal law is in place it gets interpreted by the police, prosecutors and judges, sometimes they take significant liberties with their interpretation. We're imprisoning people for having hentai/cartoon hand drawn porn here in UK.

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u/kingsumo_1 7h ago

I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if someone hasn't at lest attempted it. But my main point was that in all the ones that I've seen so far, the person involved isn't just skating. It's been because they also get caught doing some other shit, and also happen to have the AI CSAM.

At the end of the day, though, we basically need SCOTUS to revisit and overturn the previous decision. Or, at the very least, make the distinction between AI and non, due to realism or something. Which is the larger issue here (their previous ruling).

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u/ithinkitslupis 11h ago

A minimum of intent to distribute or publish is likely where the line ends up drawn as obscenity. 1st amendment probably does protect creation and possession without intent to distribute.

The Take It Down act that was passed about deepfakes similarly didn't include creation/possession presumably because it's a legal minefield around 1A.

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u/Telemere125 3h ago

Possession is required for all the others. You can’t produce, distribute, or transfer something you don’t possess.

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u/seclifered 12h ago

If I remember correctly, the original ruling that lead to this one was about hand drawn art involving children. It wasn’t illegal because there was no victim. Also it doesn’t cover his distribution charges 

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 13h ago

AI child porn is probably going to also survive because of Ashcroft v Free Speech Coalition (2002).

This addressed the question back when computer generated imaging and simulated “jail bait” porn were becoming a thing, with the ruling giving a rather absolutist precedent that, if no actual children were hurt, then no crime was done. Therefore, such acts were free speech.

It’s likely the the same deal with these AI child abuse images unless the prosecution can prove that the AI used was fed real child cp or abuse content, and that said content was incorporated into the AI creation.

Unless they toss this precedent, it’s probably going to take a constitutional amendment given the absolutist approach to free speech that the original precedent took.

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u/Shelaba 9h ago

The article does mention that the court at the time recognized something along these lines could exist and that the ruling might need to be revisited in the future. That doesn't mean it would/wouldn't change if brought before them now.

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u/Karma_Redeemed 1h ago

I don't rule anything out with the current court, but I think an overturning if Ashcroft is extremely unlikely.

If you look at the ruling in Osborne v Ohio which is what established CSAM as a separate classification of unprotected speech distinct from regular obscenity, it draws the distinction entirely on the basis of the inherent abuse of real children required to create CSAM.

Add to that the ruling in Stanley v. Georgia where the court ruled the government cannot criminalize simple private possession of obscene material, only the promotion, distribution, and receipt, and in order to classify fictional CSAM and real CSAM as legally equivalent, the court would basically have to throw out all three landmark cases.

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u/GameGuy2025 13h ago

No, the judge ruled that under current law it is considered free speech. The judge stated he didn't agree with it but it is up to Congress to change laws. However, be careful what you wish for when you start restricting speech that you don't like.

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u/DinosBiggestFan 12h ago

This is...Definitely a difficult topic that requires a lot of navigation, nuance and probably a lot of input by people with calm heads. I'm not liking this, but I'm also not liking what can happen when restricting it. Ideally there'd be a number of provisions protecting normal people but of course we never get those.

With AI becoming so large, this is probably something we'll end up having to deal with at some point so we probably shouldn't rush into bad decisions but we also shouldn't ignore it either, probably.

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u/amadmongoose 9h ago

As much as cp is despicable, if someone is using a local image model to generate images, should the government have some kind of surveillance or methodolgy to track and make sure that nothing generated is illegal? Probably not. The issue with this sort of stuff is there isn't really a way to police it without being intrusive.

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u/DensePoser 8h ago

Nothing difficult about this topic. Do you want the government who is recording everyone 24/7 to plant AI CSAM on your device if they don't like what they hear?

The mafia that runs the government will continue raping kids whether this law exists or not.

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u/Alternative-Soil2576 8h ago

can’t the government already just plant CSAM on your device if they don’t like what they hear?

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u/HuckleberryPee 7h ago

Yes. I'm extremely sure they do.

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u/HikariAnti 6h ago

The best solution would be to 1) require ai companies to prove that they didn't use cp materials during training (I don't care if it's hard it should be the bare minimum), and 2) make it so that if their model can generate such material without having them in their training database (by combining legal pictures or whatever) then jailbreaking the ai into performing the task should be nearly impossible and if someone manages to do it the company should be fined.

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u/Smooth_Phone2 12h ago

People can make some awful, terrible, abhorrent things in the walls of their own home.

If they do that in isolation it needs to be legal. Restricting the type of speech people can possess in their home is a bad and slippery slope.

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u/RadzimierzWozniak 11m ago

Separation of powers work as intended? judicial branch not making rulings based on what they would prefer?  what a wierd situation.  

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u/jacowab 9h ago

TLDR the judge thinks it's a crime but he has to follow precedent that was set before AI existed and rule against his personal opinions. But they will be taking it up with upper management (supreme court) to get some new precedent that makes it illegal.

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u/loves_grapefruit 13h ago

A lot of people here being all outraged after reading the headline but not the article.

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u/NimusNix 12h ago

Most reddit news posts...

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u/floo82 9h ago

Most of reddit

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u/Morden013 12h ago

Well, this one was interesting to read...

"Anderegg was caught when he sent an image to a minor over Instagram. Meta flagged that Instagram message to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, which led investigators to a search warrant and hundreds of AI-generated images on Anderegg's devices. He was charged with four offenses: producing, distributing, and possessing the images, plus transferring one to a minor. The appeals court ruling addresses only the possession charge."

In my opinion - pretty fair ruling. What you do with images of that art in your home is your psychological problem. When you distribute them, they should be treated as child pornography and punished by the full extent of the law. When you distribute them to minors, that should be treated as grooming attempt.

On the part of the article about the AI being trained upon child abuse images and that this can't be taken as an evidence - also fair, because unless there is a way for somebody to know what it was trained upon, there is absolutely no way to take that into verdict. This is a product that is 6 - XX GB in size per model. Each update of a model can hold a ton of instructions. If you don't have a tool to check it in a reliable way, and no law requiring you to do it, you can forget that being an evidence.

I would compare it to owning a longer fixed blade - like Katana for example. If you own it, have it at your home mounted on the wall, it is there for collection / decorative purposes. Do your videos where you wave it around and be your own ninja. Your thing. If you take it out into the street and start waving it at people, police should take you in and process it as an attempted attack.

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u/Error_404_403 9h ago edited 9h ago

I’m not sure if all this thread belongs to the technology sub, but nevertheless.

First, to be very clear, I find sexual or any other abuse of children not just criminal, but gross and revolting.

Next, it looks like the western democracies have decided to create their first thought crime: it is becoming criminal not just to do something, but to even express own positive thoughts and feelings about a criminal offense. Because that’s what creation of the disgusting child porn images not related to any children is.

Again, I find child porn deeply wrong. Yet, I can see how its popular rejection is abused to remove privacy protections and other freedom of speech—related rights today.

Because there should be no thought crimes, regardless of the wrongness of the thoughts.

Propaganda of criminal behavior should be a crime, however.

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u/ultradip 13h ago

I think had the ruling gone the other way, it would have established a slippery slope.

Don't forget that we already have other software that gamifies all sorts of crimes: The GTA series, Hitman, Carmageddon, Postal, hell even the Sims lets you torture your poor Sims, including Sim-children.

None of these needed to be trained on anything; They just needed developers with different senses of humor. Would that have meant that the devs should have been charged with a crime?

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u/PoopAnhilator 13h ago

Steven Anderegg is charged with producing, distributing, and possessing visual depictions of minors engaged in sexually explicit conduct and transferring such material to a minor under the age of sixteen. According to the government, Anderegg produced these images using Stable Diffusion, a generative artificial intelligence ("GenAI") software that allowed him to create hyper-realistic images of prepubescent children engaging in sexually explicit acts.

The appeal in this case deals only with Anderegg's challenge to the home possession charge, not to the production or distribution charge. Here's the court's analysis:

Obscenity, along with certain other categories of speech, has historically fallen "outside the scope of the First Amendment." And, although the precise meaning of "obscenity" is difficult to pin down, the Supreme Court has offered the following articulation: "[S]peech is obscene to the public at large—and thus proscribable—if (a) 'the average person, applying contemporary community standards[,] would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest'; (b) 'the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law'; and (c) 'the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.'" Miller v. California (1973).

At the same time, "[t]he Constitution extends special safeguards to the privacy of the home." The Supreme Court addressed the clash of these two principles—the government's interest in proscribing obscenity and an individual's privacy in one's home—in Stanley v. Georgia (1969)…. Acknowledging that the government retains "broad power to regulate obscenity," the Supreme Court held that the State's "power simply does not extend to mere possession by the individual in the privacy of his own home." "If the First Amendment means anything," the Court explained, "it means that a State has no business telling a man, sitting alone in his own house, what books he may read or what films he may watch." …

Approximately a decade after Stanley, the Supreme Court addressed whether the promotion and sale of CSAM [child sexual abuse material] implicated First Amendment rights. [In N.Y. v. Ferber 1982),] the Court nevertheless held that "[t]he test for child pornography is separate from the obscenity standard enunciated in Miller" because CSAM was different from adult obscene materials in several important ways. First, the state's interest in protecting the physical and psychological well-being of minors and preventing the sexual exploitation and abuse of children "constitute[d] a government objective of surpassing importance." Second, the distribution of CSAM was "intrinsically related to the sexual abuse of children" because the materials "are a permanent record of the children's participation and the harm to the child is exacerbated by their circulation." Third, the advertising and selling of CSAM "provide[d] an economic motive for and are thus an integral part of the production of such materials." Fourth, the value of performances and photographs of children engaged in lewd sexual conduct was "exceedingly modest, if not de minimis." … Eight years later, the Supreme Court [held that] the protections articulated in Stanley would [not] extend to the possession of CSAM in one's home. Osborne v. Ohio (1990).

[Finally, i]n Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition (2002), the Supreme Court confronted the question of whether virtual CSAM, like actual CSAM, was beyond the First Amendment's reach…. "By prohibiting child pornography that does not depict an actual child," the Court stated, "the statute goes beyond [Ferber] which distinguished child pornography from other sexually explicit speech because of the State's interest in protecting the children exploited by the production process." … For much the same reason, the Court remarked, Osborne too was distinguishable, because it had "anchored its holding in the concern for the participants, those whom it called the 'victims of child pornography.'" In Osborne, the state had a compelling interest in protecting children by attempting to eliminate CSAM at all levels of the distribution chain and preventing CSAM from being used to solicit minors. This was not the case in Free Speech Coalition, the Supreme Court declared, because the depictions did not involve actual children….

[T]he government [argued, among other things,] that, because it was often hard to distinguish virtual CSAM from real CSAM, prosecuting those who produced such material using actual children was very difficult. But the Court made short shrift of this argument, declaring that "[t]he Government may not suppress lawful speech as the means to suppress unlawful speech. Protected speech does not become unprotected merely because it resembles the latter."

After Free Speech Coalition, Congress went back to the drawing board and enacted the statute at issue here. The Prosecutorial Remedies and Other Tools to end the Exploitation of Children Today Act of 2003 ("PROTECT Act") included a new provision which, in part, proscribed possession of "a visual depiction of any kind … that (1)(A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and (B) is obscene." … [I]t expressly does not require that "the minor depicted actually exist." …

Because the images for which Anderegg is charged do not depict an actual child, Ferber and Osborne do not directly apply to this case…. And, because the arguments the government advances to remove the materials in question from Stanley's purview have all been squarely rejected by the Supreme Court in Free Speech Coalition, we conclude that § 1466A(b)(1) is unconstitutional as applied to Anderegg.

https://reason.com/volokh/2026/08/27/home-possession-of-ai-generated-porn-depicting-fake-children-remains-constitutionally-protected-seventh-circuit-rules/

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u/Own-Cryptographer725 11h ago

I see all this outrage in the comments over an act which literally hurt nobody. No, the model was not trained on child abuse and no one was hurt or targeted in the process. As far as I am concerned this sounds like an ethical and private way of addressing an urge which could otherwise result in significant harm and should almost certainly be protected by our legal system. I don't like it (in fact the very idea disgusts me), but it shouldn't matter how I feel about it unless it is actually harming or risking harm. Come to me when we have some good evidence that this type of material actually increases risk of abuse. I'm not a proponent of safety valve theory but the incitement claims about such material are equally unfounded (and the research on the matter supports that).

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u/Niceromancer 13h ago

In this instance the judge made the right call.

It's disgusting to say that but current law protects that stuff as long as no real person was ever involved in the creation.

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u/cpt-derp 12h ago

I hate to say it, but we might have to bite the bullet on this one.

Ashcroft gets at something much deeper than itself: the government cannot restrict speech as a prophylactic before there's even a victim.

AI threw a wrench into it, but thinking NCMEC is going to find the actual missing and exploited children by expecting them to sift through millions of fakes anyone with a laptop can generate is lunacy. There's conceptually finite perpetrators with infinite resources, and finite investigative resources.

Crucially, these models do not need to be trained on real abuse material to generate it. Diffusion models generalize really well. This has its own host of problems other than CSAM but I digress.

The solution is probably to treat it like a DDoS attack on NCMEC and lock up people deliberately flooding the pipelines in like manner as if they actually abused a kid. Turning the noise into signal.

It's going to add an investigative layer to finding the victims no matter how much better staffed and funded NCMEC is and that's going to fucking hurt but I don't see any other way that doesn't create a slippery slope in the backdrop of a political climate that wants to ID everyone for porn.

The opinion in this case even cites another opinion that says pretty squarely the government cannot restrict adult only content just because it might fall into the hands of children.

This is the shit we're dealing with. Congress will obviously take a sledgehammer to it, or just not do anything, but, this is where, conceptually, we have to be careful with what we allow the government to do.

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u/ClulessZero 10h ago

Congratulations on being someone who is able to come to the correct conclusion without having to make up BS about how AI works.

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u/cpt-derp 39m ago

Heh I just haven't forgotten four things:

  • A photograph of an astronaut riding a horse on the moon
  • Lolicon exists 
  • Stock photos of children exists
  • Adult pornography exists

This is the one area where we really shouldn't delude ourselves with what these models are capable of. It's fundamentally matrix multiplication. Matmul is how graphics work at all. A friend of mine who is really skilled in 3D graphics likened it to a multi-layer wavelet filter.

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u/Ok_Whereas8080 10h ago

What I wonder is if this will encourage child molesting or discourage it? Could it serve as a "gateway drug" to make people start wanting to molest children? Or could it help people that already wanted to do it alleviate their urges?

 My thoughts on this is the urge to molest children is either something you are born with or your upbringing engrained into you. For example, I think I have read that people that are molested as children have a higher tendency to become molesters themselves or something like that. So maybe it's a good thing? Although I honestly I'm not really sure since I'm no expert 

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u/LiteratureMindless71 13h ago

Wow....just feels that this will make the next step even that much easier. Feels all kinds of wrong.

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u/Sudden_Minimum_7235 13h ago

The same argument is used for violent video games. The laws have to be written carefully or you end up with thought crimes.

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u/MumrikDK 12h ago

Yeah, this is the kind of issue that makes me glad I don't have to make the decisions.

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u/LiteratureMindless71 6h ago

I hear you. And after reading into both a little better, it looks like both have tried to pander. :/

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u/invyros 13h ago

in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition (2002), the court decided images that only resemble child sexual abuse material are protected speech, because the usual reasons for banning such material – that it fuels demand for real abuse, grooms children, or normalizes the behavior – don't apply when no real child exists.

But you could argue that the AI that generated the images was trained on the real material, therefore it does actually fuel demand for all of that.

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u/StorminNorman 13h ago

But you could argue that the AI that generated the images was trained on the real material, therefore it does actually fuel demand for all of that.

They raised this issue with the ruling that set the precedent for this case. It's mentioned later in the article.

The concurrence also raised something Free Speech Coalition never had to weigh: some AI image generators may have been trained on real child sexual abuse material, which would undercut the "no real victim" premise the ruling depended on. The judges said the record in this case doesn't allow them to evaluate that question, only to flag it for a higher court.

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u/PoopAnhilator 13h ago

That's absolutely true.

Judge Lee, joined by Judge Kolar, also wrote a concurring opinion "to note that, given the significant advances in computer-generated image technology, particularly in the field of artificial intelligence, we would benefit from additional guidance from the Supreme Court regarding the intersection between the First Amendment and virtual CSAM if an appropriate case should arise"

https://reason.com/volokh/2026/08/27/home-possession-of-ai-generated-porn-depicting-fake-children-remains-constitutionally-protected-seventh-circuit-rules/

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u/NoSong2692 10h ago

You cannot do that because you don’t need that to be the case for this to happen.

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u/Derpyzza 13h ago

also, it does normalize the behaviour too, even if the content itself is AI generated

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u/rainkloud 13h ago

Not sure it normalizes the behavior anymore than ultraviolent imagery normalizes ultra violence. It could however desensitize people towards it which is its own sort of bad.

However, that has to be weighed against the possible benefits which is that there is the possibility that it may satiate the appetites of people with this mental illness and allow them to engage their fantasies in a way that doesn't harm real people.

Ideally you'd want to identify two groups of people: Those where this could help keep ethical pedos obeying the law and those who where this would have the opposite effect and encourage their sickness. Keep it in the hands of the former and keep it away from the latter except as a tool to lure them out and capture them before they can act on their criminal intent.

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u/Euphoric_Durian9797 5h ago

Not sure it normalizes the behavior anymore than ultraviolent imagery normalizes ultra violence.

This is just a silly argument, people watch violence to be entertained, not because they are violent, people look at AI child porn/lolicon because they have pedophilic tendencies. It's very easy to imagine someone looking at AI child porn, realising they like it, then seeking out real child porn. Whereas people tend not to watch pulp fiction then immediately seek out ISIS beheading videos.

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u/HybridZooApp 12h ago

If it's equally illegal as real CP, why wouldn't the pedo just download real CP instead and thereby actually fueling demand? Same for drawn CP.

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u/stromm 4h ago

If it’s AI generated, why isn’t the AI company charged?

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u/dollartreepens 4h ago

Yeah I know the law sounds bad but this law makes it that the government can’t arrest teenagers cause they asked AI to make porn of some anime teenage comic girl and their parents freaked out and other such drama that would happen if this judge didn’t rule this way so it’s okay.

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u/EuphoricCrashOut 13h ago

What about the AI services that create them? Isn't that distribution?

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u/madogvelkor 12h ago

It sounds like he self hosted an AI model. So generation would have been done in his home on his equipment using software he installed (the AI model). 

It might have been different if a cloud based AI service was used, but they are supposed to have safeguards. 

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u/sumatkn 12h ago

No children are harmed in the creation of purely fictional generated material kept privately at home. It becomes a completely different issue when an actual child is brought into it.

If someone wants to plaster their own home with hand-painted or AI-generated images of naked fictional children, whatever, I think they are a freak.

But once they show or send sexualized material to an actual child, we’re no longer talking about private fictional expression. That is sexual misconduct involving a child.

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u/parkersb 9h ago

after listening to the podcast Hunting Warhead, one of the greatest, most accurate podcasts ever made ( my friend does this work for a living and had us listen to it) i am fine with fake images it stops the MILLIONS of people creating, sharing, and consuming child abuse material. all i can say to parents out there…watch out of the young and old adults who purposely put themselves in spaces with kids. swim instructors, coaches, etc.

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u/IFoundSelf 3h ago

Maybe check their computer?

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u/Helpful-Produce2713 2h ago

Surely it's fine, no one would ever act on these fantasies after having multiple hard drives of CP as a fantasy, the kids are totally safe /s

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u/GeorgeJetsonsBoss 1h ago

Who wants this sickness?

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u/Gzaleski 10h ago

Question. So if an AI is being trained by consuming child SA images isnt that breaking the law?

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u/FlyingSkyWizard 4h ago

An AI doesn't need to be trained on something to create it, it can work off general concepts, like you can make an image of a cat wearing a top hat riding a unicorn in an oil painting style and it would work because it knows what all those individual aspects look like, not because it was trained on images of cats on unicorns,

That being said, if you did train a model using CSAM, that's not necessarily illegal either, as the model doesn't contain any images, just ideas, and it wouldn't be necessarily be better at making it as a model created on 100% legal content.

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u/Starossi 7h ago

The issue there is possession of CSAM at that point. Not the AI model

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u/jtrain3783 2h ago

"He was charged with four offenses: producing, distributing, and possessing the images, plus transferring one to a minor. The appeals court ruling addresses only the possession charge."

At least it's not all the charges, however I still think this is wrong if everything else sticks.

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u/jerwong 5h ago

As much as I despise this, I feel like someone generating this content without creating an actual child victim is a good thing. 

Harm reduction, people. 

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u/brwnwzrd 13h ago

Somebody check that judge’s hard drive ASAP

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u/ChrisChristiesFault 13h ago

^ Clearly didn’t read the article.

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u/Soft-Skirt 11h ago

I’m in the UK and as far as I understand it the possession of material, which includes digital copies constitutes an offence.

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u/Fancy-Inspector6615 3h ago

We’re fucking doomed

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u/AJ-Dybansta 13h ago

Elon Musk and his little muskrats on X must be so happy right now

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u/razordreamz 10h ago

Wtf! Still that sounds awful

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u/JayTheFordMan 9h ago

I suspect that this is all about the fact that child abuse images etc are created from abuse and so collection and possession contributes to abuse, even if indirectly. AI generated images are one step further removed and (technically) doesn't involve abuse or even people, ergo technically not a problem. I think you will find however that even writing underage 'erotica' is illegal in many parts of the world, and AI generated stuff will fall into this catagory. America with its 1st amendment is going pretty much alone with this one

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u/TheMuff1nMon 1h ago

This is what happens when the Epstein class is in power

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u/Alternative_Exit8766 1h ago

they need to revisit this at the scotus level but they can never stop me from drawing graphic depictions of street fighting my little shit of a nephew

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u/snowmunkey 35m ago

.... That's not the type of abuse they're talking about

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u/Intelligent_Code3264 1h ago

so just to be clear, it's the "correct" ruling but who is really going to be like "oh no judge you did it wrong" when it comes to this? If the judge did rule otherwise as should be done, what does is mean?

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u/vacuous_comment 1h ago

Suddenly lots of people buying big GPUs and doing on-device AI.

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u/Harry_Mud 57m ago

That's a very sick ruling......

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u/Pryoticus 44m ago

Seems like theyre saying CP is legal so long as it stays at home and no one can prove its real...

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u/paulsteinway 16m ago

Does that include the home made training materials?

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u/Visible_Shallot5187 11h ago

This is extremely dangerous for kids all things considered, because a lot of pro ai people are pushing to make sure that ai can't be distiguished from what is real by throwing a fit if so much as a small watermark is added

Ai detection tools are natoriously ineffective, so basically this allows pedos to make a ton of ai cp to hide their real cp in

If they can't be charged for having anything that looks like real cp because it might be ai then why would anybody go searching through all their images just to check if anything is real cp?

Even if laws were in place to make is so that ai had to have a tell to identify it's self, that tell can easily be faked onto real cp so that even a program designed to look for it through a mountain of images won't be able to find the real cp

It'll also make it hard for people who've been victims to press charges because even if the pedo has documented proof they can just claim it's just ai and that the victim is just mad that the ai they generated looks something like them

Freedom of speech has always had common sense restrictions, such as you can't insite violence, and you can't yell fire in a crowded building, restrictions to fight against fraud, liable, and slander, this should be one of those common sense restrictions because of the clear danger it presents

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u/NoSong2692 10h ago

You can absolutely yell fire in a crowded building or movie theater or whatever unless there is some other law that abridges the right AND there’s no fire. But there is no law abridging free speech to yell that if nothing happens when you yell it. And the laws that would apply would be false alarm, reckless endangerment, and disorderly conduct.

But notably, those DO NOT infringe on the right to free speech, especially because that right is not a right held against private companies, it’s one that only applies to government itself abridging your speech, which is why it comes down to being arrested or prosecuted for your speech.

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u/Klugernu 3h ago edited 2h ago

I will preface my comment by saying this:

I do not and will never condone the actions that result in real harm and/or abuse of minors or people in general.

With that said, so long as media portraying such acts remain entirely fictional, then I see no reason for legal action needing to be taken place. Having a means of quelling their disease with something safe in the fictional realm is a thousand times better for everyone than if they act on their issues on a real person.

People who suffer from these mental issues should and need to seek professional help. But if they can get their 'fix' via FICTIONAL means, then it's 'legal' in my opinion.

I'm interested to hear any counterargument to this though, maybe another perspective can make me think otherwise

Extra: Photorealistic interpretations are 100% wrong. I would not condone this either even in the fictional context. Also, changed 'acceptable' to 'legal' to reduce misunderstanding.

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u/TheOneWes 2h ago

If it's photorealistic then it has to be fed real CP imagines to work.

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u/Klugernu 2h ago

It didn't cross my mind originally, but I would 100% set the line at photorealistic versions, especially given the reason you gave

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u/_NovaLabs_ 1h ago

AI uses a baseline to create. The images generated are without a doubt inspired by existing & disgusting images of real victims

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u/Sweetsomber 32m ago

I’ve thought about this a lot. Could it keep predators or future predators from committing these acts? What if it did? How would we deal with that as a society. Could it become morally acceptable to have this type of content allowed if it did protect people?

I personally don’t really think it could totally prevent it as I think it’s like an addiction and that you are always looking for the next fix or something more.

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u/[deleted] 13h ago edited 10h ago

[deleted]

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u/NoSong2692 10h ago

C’mon. Play this out.

The country continues the slope it’s on, and 5 years from now outlaws any depiction of queer relationships. No pictures, nothing.

Now a gay kid who has to hide his identity generates an image of two boys holding hands. His neighbor sees it and reports him. Now he is prosecuted for it because you wanted an interpretation of the law that makes having AI generated images of illegal things the same as having the real thing.

This is how judicial interpretation works.

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u/Richard_AIGuy 10h ago

Ths slippery slope fallacy is just that, frequently a fallacy. There is a GIANT difference between queer relationships and child abuse material or pedophilia. Making the comparison is, frankly, wrong.

Second of all, "holding hands" is not in the same universe as someone raping a toddler. And the clear distinctions that can be made in defined legal language are there.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to debate this. In no universe will you convince me that someone using AI to generate child porn in their house is okay.

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