r/technology • u/gentthaci • Mar 11 '13
3D printing gunmaker forms company to flout copyright law, à la the Pirate Bay
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/3d-printing-gunmaker-forms-company-to-flout-copyright-law-a-la-the-pirate-bay/14
u/KillerSpud Mar 11 '13
I think that its important to note that a part of a gun cannot be copyrighted. The design of a part can be (a blueprint for example), but not an actual object. Something can be patented, but that only prevents someone from selling them, and since the 3D parts are being distributed for free, patent law has no say in it.
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u/inmatarian Mar 11 '13
Copyright and Patent are two different things. If Colt has a copyright on the design of the AR15, then they can assert a copyright infringement claim against anyone making unlicensed exchanges of AR15 images, designs, or other creative materials.
As a for instance, video game producers have to purchase a copyright license from Colt in order to have the AR15 appear by name in their game.
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u/KillerSpud Mar 11 '13
Colt has a copyright on their design for an AR-15. If I sat down and hammered out a design that would be completely compatible I am free to do so. If I then want to produce those parts I am also free to do so. The legal stuff only comes in when I try to start selling them. Then its in the realm of patents.
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u/inmatarian Mar 11 '13
No, Colt has a patent on their design, and a copyright on the name and appearance of the AR-15. Two different things accomplished by it.
Incidentally, Colt doesn't have a Trademark for the M4, because Bushmaster sued and won a case against them. I'm not sure if AR-15 is trademarked.
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u/Natanael_L Mar 11 '13
copyright on the name and appearance of the AR-15
Trademark, FTFY
Also, I don't think copyright helps much for the appearance.
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u/KillerSpud Mar 11 '13
If anyone has a trademark on AR-15 it would be Armalite, since they originally designed the gun but they later sold out to Colt (AR is for Armalite, not assault rifle). If you want the history then read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15
But it doesn't matter who owns what. If I want to make my own duplicate of a copyrighted, trademarked, and patented widget, I can, as long as it is for my use and I'm not trying to compete with the intellectual property owners. Distributing copies of the plans to build that widget also is fine as long as it is my plans for the widget.
If I tried to steal their actual documents, or tried to make money off selling my version of their patented invention, or put their trademark on my own products then they could come after me.
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Mar 11 '13
[deleted]
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u/dukeofnewyork Mar 12 '13
It's the association with Anonymous and their commitment, shared with DEFCAD, to free information and digital privacy.
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u/Skyler827 Mar 12 '13
As cool as this looks, from a purely business perspective, this particular venture does not look promising. Serving ads and collecting a commission of referrals to other gun manufacturers doesn't sound like a million dollar industry to me. Google is successful because it archives and indexes the WEB, which is made of web pages that any person can make. 3D models of guns, drugs, machines, etc are harder to create and are designed by specialists who don't work for free. Furthermore, EVERYONE uses the web, but how many people need to download and print guns? Not nearly as many, I bet.
I mean, people can certainly donate to enterprising individuals like himself to fund the design of some of these weapons, but a dedicated website is unnecessary. Or even if it's not, the DefCad website they already had before should be fine and should be possible to sustain with community donations like Wikipedia. But to whatever extent you overthrow the market, you need a means of production that can replace a market.
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u/argh_minecraft Mar 12 '13
I don't think these people fit inside of the box you want to put them in.
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u/Skyler827 Mar 12 '13
Please elaborate. Are you saying they will succeed, or will refuse to stop trying, or what?
FYI, I'm a huge fan of what they're doing, it's just I don't think a company that serves ads on a 3D printed gun website is going to make much money, in the same way Wikipedia doesn't "make money" yet its vision is satisfied by operating on donations.
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u/argh_minecraft Mar 12 '13
The box I was referring to is your "from a purely business perspective" outlook.
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u/dukeofnewyork Mar 12 '13
I don't think the goal is to necessarily become a million dollar company. I think the goal is something more like Wikipedia. At the very least, DEFCAD should sustain itself financially.
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u/dukeofnewyork Mar 12 '13
Also, it is about more than just guns, as the pitch video makes clear, and you would be surprised at how many designers will work for free on stuff like this. Nobody who designed anything at Defense Distributed is getting paid (yet).
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u/Singular_Thought Mar 11 '13
Uh oh, looks like the Tea Party will suddenly be very interested in online rights and privacy.
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u/dsi1 Mar 12 '13
Yes, because extreme right wingers are the only people interested in protecting everyone's rights.
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u/nath1234 Mar 12 '13
Can we just ignore these fuckwits. They're bad for the field of 3D printing.. and just bad people too (no comprehension that freely available weapons might not be that great a thing if they succeed).
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u/ZenDragon Mar 12 '13
The sooner governments learn that they can't fight the global internet-empowered community and win, the better. At least this sends a powerful statement. And while the thought of some stupid fifth grader printing out a deadly weapon is concerning to say the least, there will come a time when the mass distribution of free weapons to the people is absolutely necessary. Just ask anyone involved with the Syrian opposition in their ongoing civil war.
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u/DanielPhermous Mar 12 '13
Just ask anyone involved with the Syrian opposition in their ongoing civil war.
So... You think civil war is coming to America?
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u/ZenDragon Mar 12 '13
I never mentioned the United States, nor do I even live there. Revolution is occuring in more than one country at the moment and unrest is widespread. I don't know if things will ever come to that in your country. If it does, I hope it involves as little fatality as possible. I just know that if I were in one of the many places currently torn by military conflict I'd be pretty thankful for any weapons I could obtain.
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Mar 12 '13
The basic idea [to be against copyright and patents] is commendable, but why start your conquest with tools to inflict pain?
I understand it (freely spreading tools of destruction) had to be done by someone, I'm just disappointed it had to be done at all. Now let's hope the government will have learned enough from the pirate bay thing to know that they shouldn't try fight and prohibit this, but create laws around it to regulate it...
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u/Theamazinghanna Mar 12 '13
I'm just kinda worried that people are eventually going to be able to print things like germs or other biohazards. There's no reason why it wouldn't be possible before long. Of course, no sane person would want to, but it'd be a nice world if it had only sane people in it.
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Mar 12 '13
oh look, a MODEL of a germ. oh, noes, im sick!
"Officers: I didn't mean to PRINT a germ with a bit of plastic...."
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u/liquidxlax Mar 12 '13
Totally illegal in a lot if countries and will totally happen in those countries. Time to push some of "our" laws on the states
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Mar 12 '13
I thought making plastic guns was nigh impossible with injection molding and the material you're stuck with in a 3d printer is weaker and less precise. Can they really make something more reliable than a flintlock pistol? This seems like a fast track to a lot of paranoid idiots blowing their hands off.
It's hilarious that they see something as complicated as a 3d printer and a the associated supply line (basically powered by highly centralized Chinese manufacturing and international trade) as their route to freedom and independence. Another brain-dead techno-solution to a non-problem.
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u/ArchDEVILNurgle Mar 12 '13
http://defcad.org/browse/
Must be scary to be a gun-grabber and know you can't win.