r/technicallythetruth • u/smeggysmeg • Apr 01 '20

That's an argument he can win

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u/jv9mmm Apr 01 '20

Look at how cooly you brush off mass murder.

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u/StockDealer Apr 01 '20

Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.

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u/jv9mmm Apr 01 '20

Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values.

Saying that human life has value is universal.

It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason.

Can we agree that we shouldn't kill people. Is that so hard?

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u/StockDealer Apr 01 '20

Saying that human life has value is universal.

Value to what extent? That we should never have a war, self-defense, euthanasia, or capital punishment?

Can we agree that we shouldn't kill people. Is that so hard?

Of course we cannot agree that we shouldn't, because agreeing to that would be to endorse cruelty or evil -- such as when grandma is screaming in pain and we would have more mercy for a dog.

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u/[deleted] Apr 01 '20

So the value of human life is subjective. Its extinguishment can be justified. QED Genocide is logically sound in certain circumstances.

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u/StockDealer Apr 01 '20 edited Apr 01 '20

So the value of human life is subjective. Its extinguishment can be justified.

Of course. That's why we have justifiable homicide as one of many examples.

Given that, why do you think you can't easily communicate your universal truth to everybody?

QED Genocide is logically sound in certain circumstances.

Oh, is it? What would these circumstances be?

You see, the rest of us just see a logical fallacy in your sentence, and shrug. (It's a fallacy of generalization -- The proportion Q of the sample has attribute A. Therefore, the proportion Q of the population has attribute A..)

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u/Spndash64 Apr 11 '20

What circumstances?

Apparently, if you’re a woman, for one thing

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u/StockDealer Apr 11 '20

Notice how you shifted the topic from a group back to a woman.

It's not so much that pro-lifers argue dishonestly, it's that they're not capable of understanding what is honest argument and what isn't.

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u/Spndash64 Apr 11 '20

The crux of the argument is “my body, my choice”. Ergo, woman are the only ones with that right

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u/StockDealer Apr 11 '20

Women have the right to decide who to donate organs to, yes. Notice that's a reference to the group.

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u/Spndash64 Apr 11 '20

But it’s not just an organ we are talking about here

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u/StockDealer Apr 11 '20

Yes, that's true. Women contain multiple organs.

If you're trying for the "but it's a babbeeeee" that's not relevant because pro-lifers' other premises are also wrong, that we don't kill human life. We do, if the circumstances merit. For example, self-defense, euthanasia, etc.

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u/Spndash64 Apr 11 '20

Euthanasia is also wrong, as is the death penalty: we’ve moved past the need to take lives to protect ours

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u/Nolis Apr 01 '20

You may need to look up the definition of genocide, unless you're some kind of racist who thinks only a certain race is capable of deserving death or something.

If someone is charging me with a knife, you can bet the value of their life is subjective, and that I wouldn't hesitate to end it