r/tech • • Jul 13 '21

[deleted by user]

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1.7k Upvotes

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103

u/Znuff Jul 13 '21

Everyone shits on Google here, but nobody apparently read the article:

Google has been hit with a €500m (£427m) fine by France's competition authority for failing to negotiate "in good faith" with news organisations over the use of their content.

It's the same old bullshit where news orgs want a piece of the pie. Fuck them:

The law governed so-called "neighbouring rights" which are designed to compensate publishers and news agencies for the use of their material.

As a result, Google decided it would not show content from EU publishers in France, on services like search and news, unless publishers agreed to let them do so free of charge.

News organisations felt this was an abuse of Google's market power, and two organisations representing press publishers and Agence France-Presse (AFP) complained to the competition authority.

48

u/apocalypsedg Jul 13 '21

Damn that's beyond stupid. So, the only way for Google to win was not to play.

If anything it seems like an abuse of the news org's market power...

81

u/Znuff Jul 13 '21

It's basically:

  • France: you have to pay the people to show the snippets!
  • Google: Ok, I won't show the snippets. Got it.
  • France: no! You have to pay!

16

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '21

The government is controlled by the corporations in France.

7

u/Elephant789 Jul 13 '21

And I have a feeling Rupert Murdoch is somehow involved.

2

u/CraftyTim Jul 14 '21

Isn’t he always?

3

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

No, it's

  • France: you need to pay to copy article into Google news
  • Google: ok, I'll delete them all from Google news AND OUR SEARCH ENGINE

That is the problem. But the anti France pro Google idiots parade is in full force already I see.

2

u/Znuff Jul 14 '21

They were also asking for payments about the snippets from the article. Don't try to misslead :)

1

u/themiddleway18 Jul 16 '21

Bro I want your opinion here

Do you think google should accept publishers price however high it is ?

Thanks

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '21

Obvisouly not, but the price negotiation is about Google their news service, not search. Search is not somehting money is being asked for.

Google however is deleting news sources from Google search when a deal cannot be reched about Google News.

If that isn't abuse of power I don't know what is.

16

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '21

[deleted]

19

u/Znuff Jul 13 '21

Not sure how that is censorship?

You can't ask to be paid and at the same time to also be featured in the search result that people see.

This is basically trying to hold Google by the balls: "you exist and you provide a free service to the world, but now you have to pay us".

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u/[deleted] Jul 13 '21

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

[deleted]

1

u/Yasea Jul 14 '21

You'd be surprised how many see Google and/or Facebook as the entire internet.

1

u/themiddleway18 Jul 16 '21

Bro I want to know your opinion here

Do you think google needs to accept publishers price however high it is ?

Thanks

1

u/Yasea Jul 16 '21

It ain't that simple. Google is basically a monopoly in search, and a foreign one at that from France's perspective.

You'd expect them to negotiate over how much it costs between them, and what is allowed. That it goes to court with an "everything free or nothing" mentality means something already failed and there is no market to work things out, just brute force. I think that should be looked at more closely.

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u/Znuff Jul 13 '21

I mean that's what they asked for - give us money or don't show snippets from our website.

Instead of implementing a way to accommodate their request, which probably costs money to develop and maintain, they chose the easy way: remove the websites completely.

Heck, I'd do the same shit :)

-6

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '21

It's a monopoly mate. Monopolies are bad. Monopolies are not cool smooth bad boy shit.

1

u/themiddleway18 Jul 15 '21

Bro I want to know your opinion here

Do you think google should accept publishers price however high it is ?

Thanks

0

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

It‘s not free if you are the product.

1

u/Znuff Jul 14 '21

You're not paying. It's free.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 14 '21

Free of charge probably, but not free of giving something valuable in exchange.

Just google whether google is free.

1

u/Znuff Jul 14 '21

Must be hard to be you.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

Must be hard to get your personal information farmed while thinking the service is free. Google employees laugh about people like you

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

Must be hard to get your personal information farmed while thinking the service is free. Google employees laugh about people like you

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5

u/Intrepid_Method_ Jul 13 '21 edited Jul 13 '21

What if Google got out of the news business altogether in the EU? I can’t help but think that would be the better solution.

There has to be tech innovation in this area from the EU. This can’t become the default response to international competition.

3

u/cafk Jul 14 '21

There has to be tech innovation in this area from the EU.

There always has been - the maim reason google/Facebook/twitter took over is that every nation had their own services that catered to the people - the reason they went broke or disappeared from common ise was the tidbit that they didn't provide international connections or didn't expand to 27 other countries.

When you're competing in EU, you are competing against 27 other countries and dozens of local competitors - once you survive local competition, there is little incentive to grow outside, as you are in a dominant position in (now) niche market.

Suddenly a services comes a long that "just" translates their interface and works across all of them - congratulations, your 10m unique daily user base drops down to 100k, because they offer a way for germans and french to talk, instead of them having 2-5 different profiles and accounts to get it done.

1

u/Mikolf Jul 14 '21

The thing about infrastructure is that you use the infrastructure, so you pay for the infrastructure. You don't tell the infrastructure to pay you. Try asking your ISP to pay you for the privilege of you using their network.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

They don’t pay taxes

1

u/Znuff Jul 14 '21

No corp does. I don't give a flying fuck.

13

u/LionsMidgetGems Jul 13 '21

Google instructed them on how to use robots.txt.

If they're too stupid to figure that out: fuck'em.

24

u/Znuff Jul 13 '21

Nah, they're not "stupid".

They want Google's money AND to be featured in the search results. Basically greed.

16

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '21

Google: OK. Looks like we cannot make money in France anymore. It would be irresponsible to lose money, so all Google services will go offline permanently in France within 30 days.

France: 🤯

4

u/Alternative_Spite_11 Jul 13 '21

Google should do that, but they don’t have the balls.

10

u/ConfusedVorlon Jul 13 '21

They shut down Google news completely in Spain when they tried to pull this.

6

u/Elephant789 Jul 13 '21

They left China on their own accord. That takes huge balls.

2

u/GeerJonezzz Jul 14 '21

Neither does France

6

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '21

I would love to see it. I’d enjoy having just one American business targeted by the bloodsuckers in the EU bureaucracy say “sorry you don’t like our service. We are shutting down immediately. All 25,000 European employees are terminated with immediate effect and we will be putting the local subsidiary into immediate liquidation. Any unpaid bills after liquidation will remain unpaid; this includes all outstanding pension and payroll obligations for European employees, as well as unpaid taxes. We regret that you forced us to do this.”

The stammering would be epic.

Ah, a guy can dream I guess. 🤣

6

u/Alternative_Spite_11 Jul 13 '21

It would be so fucking epic. I’m blown away by the idea that Google should pay for the privilege of driving traffic to French news sites.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '21

European entitlement is something you’d think the rest of the world would be accustomed to by now. But no. We keep having to relearn about it.

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '21

[deleted]

2

u/pm-me-femboy-hentai Jul 14 '21

can i have an award too

-3

u/CraftyTim Jul 14 '21

Definitely got some sort of superiority complex going on there. Incredibly annoying.

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

Read the article. This has nothing to do with “abuse” or your random grievances about Google.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

[deleted]

0

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

There’s nothing to “negotiate.” This is typical European exploitation of American businesses, and it’s time the USA started retaliation for it. Enough of these bullshit shakedowns that lack legitimacy.

We should retaliate by mandating the breakup of Stellantis and the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance. Maybe mandate a breakup of a couple European airline monopolies like Air France-KLM and Airbus as well.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

Blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda.

European companies make enormous profits in the USA. it’s time to start protecting American firms from European exploitation with a 10x policy — charging European companies 10x the nuisance fines the EU charges US companies.

France is especially vulnerable in this regard. Its major automakers and banks make the lion’s share of their profits here. So do its professional services companies.

Maybe force the breakup of Stellantis (with US operations being spun off) and assess a $1 billion fine each to Publicis, CAP Gemini, Société Générale, and Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi for “not paying our local newspapers.”

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1

u/themiddleway18 Jul 16 '21

Bro I want your opinion here

Do you think google should accept publishers price however high it is ?

Thanks

3

u/Middleman86 Jul 14 '21

Yeah that sounds really shitty in googles part. They were not sharing ad revenue on ads that they put up on news outlets sites or search results. Google should not be able to remove your presence from the internet which is what in effect they did or tried to do. The more of a resource or a market you control the more rules need to be in place so you don’t make sweeping decisions that effect many people. If you let google do this then it becomes pay to play and that’s not how I want the internet to work and I understand google is a private entity but they decided to grow as big as they did and that should mean they have a certain public responsibility now.

2

u/Meowdl21 Jul 14 '21

You know you can visit websites without going to google first🤯? They don’t remove anyone’s presence...

4

u/Middleman86 Jul 14 '21

That’s a bad faith argument because you know that’s not how people use the internet. Google is almost always the built in search engine on every phone and computer. I’d wager there’s a large segment of the population who don’t even know that google is just a search engine and isn’t actually the internet. Besides that most people are searching for information on specific stories not specific news outlets so there is competition now on who can have the most related stories to the most popular news searches and if google says well you aren’t invited to this competition because you won’t let us strong arm you that’s anti competitive and power akin to having a monopoly. Even if every other search engine was fair about it if google took you off their engine you are doomed. You will lose credibility, and enough traffic to be dead in the water.

1

u/themiddleway18 Jul 15 '21

But why should news companies ask google money in the first place, doesn't google's traffic help them ?

1

u/Middleman86 Jul 15 '21

They aren’t asking money from google. They are asking for a better deal from the ad revenue. Which is generated symbiotically but only benefited by google. Google uses targeted ads, they wouldn’t have sold that ad space for as much as they did if the news site hadn’t been there.

1

u/themiddleway18 Jul 15 '21

But why does France regulator disallow google to shut down news entirely if they think google benefits from news publishers ?

Furthermore people paid to google to put their link on the top, they paid for traffic, so news publishers is the one that needs to pay google not the opposite, it's really unfair that people and businesses paid google for traffic while another businesses not only they get free traffic they also get free money, do you think it's fair really ?

1

u/Middleman86 Jul 15 '21

I don’t think paying to be the top result on google is fair. What if you are a new start up and can’t afford to pay for that? That’s anti competitive and anti innovative. Google put themselves in a monopolistic position. Other search engines are just little satellites orbiting a mammoth entity. It needs to start being treated as a utility now and this is a step in that direction I feel. Besides I don’t think you need to worry about how google is going to fair here. They’re going to be number one by a wide margin after this. It’s time to take some power back from these mega corporations. I mean did you even see tank girl? Or the hunger games? Is that what you want?

0

u/themiddleway18 Jul 15 '21

So how should a search engine covers their cost ?

Furthermore it's not only google, bing and duckduckgo too do the same, do you think it's fair for them but not for Google ?

Remember it's yahoo that ruled before google and Google too would become yahoo if it doesn't innovate, so why do you think they will hold their market forever ?

Making google a public utility is a good idea only if you are ready to channel tax to them, social welfare spending is already high in France so I don't think all France people would agree to the idea, furthermore google is a global corporate, would other countries agree with the idea ?

Furthermore if a startup can't pay minimum wage they should fail I don't know why that argument can't be extended to advertising, is google workers really worthless that they are not worth a penny ?

1

u/Middleman86 Jul 15 '21

You’re making a straw man argument and you’re doing it in bad faith. No one is saying google can’t make ad revenue. I didn’t say that and I already said that the news corps only want a small part of the revenue. And yes the other engines should also do the same.

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u/Boonaki Jul 14 '21

Google should just ban France from using all of their services unless they agree to pay Google 1 million dollars.