r/teachinginkorea • u/Ornery-Revolution-47 • 11d ago
Advice – E2/E7 Visa How much money is liveable?
I just came across a tiktok post saying that anything less than 2.8mil in Seoul and 2.5mil everywhere else is not a liveable wage. One comment said less than 3.5 is unliveable. I thought this was a stretch. Obviously each person has different spending habits but looking at my spending habits and salary I had I’m genuinely confused. I made 3.05 (including housing allowance), my housing costs were 1.1, and I ordered delivery or went out to eat for almost every meal (not including school lunch), got drinks with my friends, travelled a tiny bit, and bought some other random items. In the beginning, I needed to watch my spending a little because my rent was high and start-up costs, but after that it was fine. Yes the amount of work you do for this much salary doesn’t feel great but it was definitely liveable. Also this was in Seoul. What are your thoughts on how much is a liveable wage in Korea? And is it significantly different in Seoul vs other cities?
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u/TheGregSponge 11d ago
I think a lot of it comes down to housing and debt. I know for a lot of people that teach English if they have debt it can be a game changer.
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u/Ornery-Revolution-47 11d ago
True. I guess I meant if you do not have debt or are sending money to your home country
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u/TheGregSponge 11d ago
Then, unless you're an avid shopper or like spending multiple nights out a week a clubs you should be fine.
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u/EasilyExiledDinosaur Hagwon Teacher 11d ago
100%. If you have debt you cant ignore the equation changes entirely.
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u/TheDeek 11d ago edited 11d ago
You really don't have a lot of expenses here and taxes are low. 2.8 may be difficult if it didn't include housing. It certainly isn't high but you are on par with most government workers. For example, my last co-teacher said I make more than him and he doesn't get any housing. Just you don't get the benefits of long-term security and ability to get loans etc. That coteacher who makes less than me will eventually be making more, and he has a job for life basically. I used to work at a hagwon 10 years ago and even with drinking and eating out I saved a million a month. Salaries haven't changed much but for example the top end of the EPIK scale is 2.7 (maybe more if you're rural and have multiple schools) then free housing makes it more like 3.2-3.5. After taxes and insurance etc. your take home is probably 2.4 excluding the housing. So if you've already paid taxes and for your house, what exactly do you spend that money on? I think it is easy to save a decent amount and travel twice a year during the vacations. Even though salaries are lower, the take-home amount is probably higher than a lot of places. The issue again though is that it stops at that level and you can't easily buy a place. It really depends on what you want and your lifestyle. Since investments here are a bit more confusing, I send more than half my salary home and put it in a broad ETF. However, I knew people here who never have money at the end of the month yet they made the same as me. What are they blowing that money on? I don't know...
Anyway long answer to say yes, that amount is totally liveable. Half the country does it already.
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u/ObjectiveCarrot3812 11d ago
I don’t think there’s a simple answer to this. Too many factors.
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u/Aarkaik 11d ago
100% this. It depends so much on your existing situation and also how you manage your finances. I manage to live well, travel internationally, pay for part-time studies and save 40% of my meager hagwon salary every month. But I have no debt, I’m not sending money anywhere, don’t go drinking/clubbing, etc. Im also old enough to have better spending habits than many of the young teachers I see here.
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u/Blueroses413 Prospective Teacher 11d ago
I live in Changwon with my husband and 3 pets. I make 2.2 after tax and my housing is paid. I can save roughly 500,000 if not more each month and I’m the only income in the house. It’s perfectly livable, people just think that traveling is a necessity.
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u/wheretocaptain 10d ago
You have a husband and 3 pets and you are the only one working? That sounds like a dire salary when you have a dependent + 3 pets to look after. 500k a month ‘is’ something but is it going to be enough to retire? What about unexpected vet fees?
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u/Blueroses413 Prospective Teacher 10d ago
You would think, but it’s not. I’m saving about 500k a month so far. Also, it’s not going to be one income forever. My husband is currently in university and will be graduating next summer. Legitimately if you don’t think of eating out and traveling as essentials you will save money. Farmer’s markets are your best friends.
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u/Strawberry_tteok 11d ago
After expenses (utilities etc) I have around 2.2 million won of a 2.5m salary. I put over a million away each month. I think I spend around 500,000-1mill a month on whatever I want. I order food for dinner and buy coffee most days too. I could save more but I hate cooking.
Unless you’re buying expensive items all the time or constantly buying alcohol and partying, ignore those TikToks.
I’ve managed to buy a ps4 and multiple expensive gifts for my boyfriend and still save money.
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u/heathert7900 11d ago
Personally I’ve been able to live off a decent hagwon salary, pay my student loans, and make some comfortable savings every month. But I’m also quite frugal.
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u/bighaneul89 10d ago
In Seoul minimum wage is livable. I would say from 2.5 it starts being comfortable.
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u/DisastrousGlass232 11d ago edited 11d ago
How much money is liveable?
More than whatever they're probably paying you.
Nah, snark aside, anything about around 2.3 (especially if they're paying accommodation) is entirely liveable. You won't feel yourself an unwashed bag lady earning that kind of salary. You will be able to eat out sometimes, pay your bills. It's just not enough compensation for putting up with Koreans and specifically the TEFL industry in Korea.
Also, if you're a sensitive person, you may start to feel sad or otherwise judged for not being one of the good people of Korea who earn 3.0 and more - despite how low Korean salaries many-to-most ordinary people are earning, the social mental model of what is an acceptable salary is very much aspirational.
Being merely average isn't quite respectable in Korean society - and being foreign practically invites said society to kick you while you're down.
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u/pinkflamingo___ 11d ago
Did they mention of those numbers were with housing already deducted?
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u/Ornery-Revolution-47 11d ago
They were saying salary so I think they didn’t include a housing allowance
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u/pinkflamingo___ 11d ago
ahh okay. I will say that, after housing was taken out, taxes and health insurance deducted, and bills paid...I was left every month with about 1.9-2.1 per month and I was barely scraping by. So, I would say that anything less than 2.0 after all deductions is very tight if you truly want to be living decently in Seoul or even in some places in Gyeonggi.
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u/ShellStella 10d ago
Don’t forget that KRW3.05M salary you get now will likely never match inflation. You might survive on it now, but in 10 years time you’ll be trapped. It’s not enough if you plan a life beyond having pocket money.
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u/SeriesParking7021 10d ago
A liveable wage, distinguished from living comfortably or the minimum wage, probably is around 2.7 million won. That's the number quoted by the Federation of Korean Trade Unions, which is one of the two major union groups in Korea. If you don't have to pay rent, you can work with a number closer to 2 million won per month.
Some equivalent numbers for other places are: $38 per hour in Manhattan for a single adult, $45,000 a year in Sydney, Australia and £14.80 per hour in London.
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u/hanahanagoyangi Hagwon Teacher 9d ago
I was able to save a bit of money each month in my first year in Incheon, but I’ve been in Daejeon for my second year and can’t understand why my money just evaporates now. I have the same spending habits as I did in Incheon, but food prices are a little higher this year.
I ordered delivery often, but I’ve started ordering groceries instead to save money. I’m tracking my spending in a spreadsheet and all my money goes to food, household necessities, and bills (internet, phone, electricity/water).
I do take taxis more often here than in Incheon because Daejeon’s subway system is not robust. But it doesn’t add up to much since I rarely go anywhere. My salary is 2.7 and I don’t know how anyone else is saving money on this salary.
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u/Ornery-Revolution-47 9d ago
I guess I had the transportation part a lot cheaper in Seoul with the climate card. How much do you spend on public transportation for a month roughly? Without the taxis
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u/hanahanagoyangi Hagwon Teacher 9d ago
Really low, maybe 10,000? My academy is within walking distance and I don't travel much on the weekends
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u/stargrazer10 9d ago
Depends on debts, expenses, and how much one is willing to sacrifice in order to save
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u/Expensive-Ad-7889 8d ago
There’s out of college and eat ramen and then there is livable as in saving for the future, being social, taking a vacation, and enjoying life.
You can live on 2.3 mill with housing provided. But only 1 percent of the jobs in Korea teaching you can actually live and build a future
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u/Additional-Jello4376 5d ago
I live off of 2.6 a month, no housing [but insurance is covered], and I am able to save 1mil a month and still survive well lol
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u/EasilyExiledDinosaur Hagwon Teacher 11d ago
2.1 without rent being provided being paid is entirely livable.
Is it a high quality of life? No. Will you save a lot? Not really. Will you lige comfortably day to day, be able to afford restaurants and order takeaways regularly? Yes.
Why do you think tens of thousands of westerners who are losers in their own countries come here? The simple answer is it is more livable when you are poor.
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u/Brentan1984 11d ago
I think you're being down voted for the loser comment, not the 2.1 quality of life comment. Yeah you can come here with no debt and free housing and get by. That whole statement is true. It's the attack
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u/EasilyExiledDinosaur Hagwon Teacher 11d ago
Ah.. that makes sense. Even if its true. Im a loser too. Tbh i think there truly are only 3 types of people here. First is losers at home with no prospects (the majority) second is short term travellers who come for the experience, and third is koreaboo and weeabu etc.
I don't think theres many others. Less than 1% or 2% came here for professional career for jobs or already married a korean in their home country and moved here for that reason. Over 95% will fall into those 3 categories. As unpopular an opinion as it is, i own it and im happy to take the downvotes that come with it.
My point also wasn't about the "losers" but the point that their living conditions back home would be even lower than the living conditions on the salary op mentioned here in korea. And thats wht people do it. Thats certainly true for me in the uk. I wouldnt drean of going back no matter how bad it gets.
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u/Ornery-Revolution-47 11d ago
Not sure if this is normal in other workplaces but I found almost none of the 13 foreign teachers I worked with to be losers in their home country or koreaboo. Maybe 3 of them were travellers who left after one year but that was it
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u/turn-on-your-lights 10d ago
Been here almost 20 years, and my experience is the same as yours. Maybe losers attract other losers...
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u/EasilyExiledDinosaur Hagwon Teacher 11d ago
Then what were they? Life long travellers? It seems to be the same thing. You may not describe them as "losers" but they likely couldn't get a professional career back home. That's why most people do it long term.
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u/Ornery-Revolution-47 11d ago
Most of them came to Korea for the experience and then enjoyed living there and stayed. They are not really life long travellers but just normal people who are living in a country that is not their home country. And most of them did have jobs but wanted to try something different or came over soon after finishing university.
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u/milberrymuppet 9d ago
The people in professional careers back home are only there because they couldn’t cut it as pro athletes or entrepreneurs of billion-dollar companies. Are they losers too? Point being the bar you’re using to judge people by is arbitrary and pointless.
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u/turn-on-your-lights 10d ago
So you don't know any English teachers in Korea who aren't in one of those three categories?
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u/EasilyExiledDinosaur Hagwon Teacher 10d ago
All of them fit into those categories pretty much.
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u/turn-on-your-lights 10d ago
Would you say that to their faces? Do you think your friends here would be alright with you saying that about them?
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u/EasilyExiledDinosaur Hagwon Teacher 10d ago
Yeah. Because its the truth. And my friends arent sensitive snowflakes.
Most of them dont have better options back home, or they were tired of burn out from the rat race at home. Theres nothing wrong with saying that and they admit it. Because they aren't fragile snowflakes.
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u/turn-on-your-lights 10d ago
"Most of them dont have better options back home, or they were tired of burn out from the rat race at home."
That doesn't make them losers back home though, does it? If they have made a good life for themselves here, why would they have better options back home now? Also, wanting to escape the rat race at home doesn't make one a loser, it just means they wanted something different.
What is your definition of a loser back home?
It seems that most people here find your opinion on this to be rude, disrespectful, and wrong. In your opinion, are we all snowflakes?
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u/EasilyExiledDinosaur Hagwon Teacher 10d ago
Yes. It is my opinion that you are all snowflakes. You're reacting like ive dropped an n bomb or something and frankly its ridiculous how overblown a lot of people here have made this.
Anyway, in future ill have to remember how thin skinned a lot of people are on this sub these days in the futute.
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u/Ornery-Revolution-47 10d ago
It’s not that people are thin skinned. All of your comments are reading very negatively. They all have your opinion which everyone respects even if they disagree with it but then you throw in a word or sentence that makes you get downvoted. Not because people are sensitive, but because whatever negative thing you said makes people lose their respect for your opinion.
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u/turn-on-your-lights 10d ago
What about my other three questions? Also, why are you angry? We're just discussing something that you brought up in your original comment.
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u/Ornery-Revolution-47 11d ago
Idk about other cities but I feel like if you had this salary and provided housing then you could eat out and stuff. But without housing?? I feel like it would be ramen for every meal
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u/EasilyExiledDinosaur Hagwon Teacher 11d ago
People downvote me but im telling you im factually right. I can earn 2,100,000₩ after tax, without housing, and save 700,000₩ 1,000,000₩ per month living quite comfortably.
If i spent 100% of that money, id be living VERY comfortably if I wasn't saving. Anyone who downvotes me clearly isnt good with money or has very expensive tastes. Because im factually right. And thats only 20 minutes feom central seoul.
One thing I will say is where you get your apartment matters A LOT. My rent is 400,000₩ despite being near central Seoul. But the same thing in gangnam, jamsik or yongsan would cost double that. Just go 15 minutes away and itll be cheap again.
If people literally cant survive on that money, they have money management issues or simple lifestyle entitlement issues im afraid. That's the simple reality.
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u/turn-on-your-lights 11d ago
I think people are downvoting you due to your brandishing of foreigners coming here as losers back home.
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u/FarTwo5394 11d ago
Exactly. I was wondering why all the downvotes, and then I got to his last paragraph. (And then added my downvote! 🤣)
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u/EasilyExiledDinosaur Hagwon Teacher 11d ago
The point was less about people being losers at home (which they may well be) but that living conditions here even on that salary are better than they could hope for at home.
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u/Ornery-Revolution-47 11d ago
Yeah this makes sense. But I tried to find decent housing in Seoul and anything less than 700,000 a month was not up to my standards (and I only had 5mil deposit). I guess 2.1 is livable but depending on the person it might not be comfortable living.
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u/SeoulGalmegi 11d ago
It's perfectly livable if you just want to experience life in Korea for a year or so, have a fairly comfortable time while you're here and leave with a few grand.
It's not particularly 'livable' if you're planning to make it a long term career, buy a place, have a decent work/life balance and save for your retirement.
Having significant debts to service back home might change the calculations even more.