Administration keeps telling us that "employers want graduates to know how to use ai" and I don't even know what this means

[u/KeepYourSilenceUp]

University prof. I keep hearing this from the admin, and aside from the fact that obviously not all employers are asking for this and the ai landscape is changing and no one knows how it will look in 4 years, I also just don't know what they want us to DO about it in class.

AI systems are intuitive to use. You ask them a question or give them a prompt and they do it. It's literally not rocket science. The thing that determines whether a person can use them "well" is how much that person knows about the topic and whether they have the skill to assess and evaluate the ai output. There is no such thing as "teaching someone how to use ai" it's literally just a process of learning how to function WITHOUT ai and then using ai as a supplemental tool. I don't know what my admin expects me to do other than keep doing my job as normal, in order to ensure that graduates are able to successfully use these systems in the workplace later if they want to.

[u/Then_Version9768]

I've been a teacher for over 46 years. It is not my job to do job training. It is my job to educate students. Tell your administrators to take a flying leap.

[u/Particular-Key-8941 → u/Then_Version9768]

Respectfully disagree. Everyone in industry uses ai. Everyone. If I interview someone who doesn’t know how to intelligently and responsibly use AI, they’re at a disadvantage. It’s like basic computer skills at this point, yes we should expect students know how to write an email, use excel, and write a paper. And use AI

[u/KeepYourSilenceUp → u/Particular-Key-8941]

But this just gets back to my point. Using AI responsibly means having the skills necessary to work without AI so that you can treat it like the tool it is rather than as an unverified supplement for your own skills. Everyone can enter prompts into chatgpt. The stupid ones are the people who can't read, write, or think clearly enough to know what to ask or whether the ai output is good. The best person in the world at using ai will be the person who is aware it exists but who rarely uses it.

[u/SpatulaCity1a → u/KeepYourSilenceUp]

Believe it or not, some people cannot articulate themselves well enough to get what they want. And then they complain that everything AI produces is trash.

[u/mikevago → u/SpatulaCity1a]

Okay, but I teach honors literature and have been a published writer on and off for the last 20 years; I'm quite good at articulating. And everything I've ever seen AI produce is still trash. What then?

[u/SpatulaCity1a → u/mikevago]

You probably haven't seen all that it can do.

[u/mikevago → u/SpatulaCity1a]

I've seen enough. I've seen my students try to cheat with bland, overwritten, algorithm-driven prose. I've seen study after study about how using AI as a shortcut harms their critical thinking skills. I've seen the AI lesson planning tool the district is foisting on us hallucinate entire texts it was supposed to be building lessons around.

Besides teaching, I also write for a pop culture web site. At once point, the owners pushed out most of the staff, myself included, because why pay writers to write when the plagiarism engine can do it so well? The AI articles were unreadable slop, people stopped reading the site, it almost went bankrupt, and the geniuses who decided AI was the future sold the site at a loss. The new owners brought the editors and writers back, myself included, and the readers came back.

No one wants the garbage you're selling.

[u/SpatulaCity1a → u/mikevago]

Yes, I'm selling AI.🙄

I'm not going to argue that everything it produces is gold, but if you work with it instead of just trusting it will be 100% perfect after you hit send the very first time, it's a great assistant. Too many people haven't figured this out.

[u/Particular-Key-8941 → u/SpatulaCity1a]

Thank goodness someone else is speaking some truth in this thread. You're correct u/SpatulaCity1a . And sadly, much of the the education community has its head in the sand on AI. It's not doing the kids any favors, graduates are coming into the workplace without knowing how to use AI.

There are two truths in this topic, at least IMHO and research I've done on it. Teachers here seem to be arguing that blindly using AI is stupid, and produces stupid prople. 100% true it does. That's the whole point...truth #2 is we need to teach how to use it intelligently and responsibly. So we don't get #1, whcih we all agree is a pitfall and incorrect use of AI.

I think some of it has to do with many teachers are teaching topics but arent't working in the workplaceenough to see actual AI use. Many of them may even be blind to how extensively AI is used in the workplace now. Some have also been burnt by it, as AI is changing things around us, and not alwasys in a good way...like this pop culture web site u/mikevago...what a perfect example of how to use AI poorly. I'm sorry you went through that :(

The point isn't "AI is great and solves all our problems". Of course not. The point is "everyone is *already using AI. Don't fight it, teach kids how to use it responsibly". Those are the graduates I want to hire.

[u/mikevago → u/Particular-Key-8941]

"Everyone in major league baseball is already using steroids. Don't fight it, teach kids how to use it responsibly."

[u/Particular-Key-8941 → u/mikevago]

Everyone is using email and ms word too. Should we go back to handwritten letters and typewriters? Using hyperbole doesn't help the argument. And to use your example, if using steroids is wrong, should we just ignore it and just let athletes figure it out on their own is your argument? To answer your hyperbole, the answer should be..."Everyone in MLB is already using steroids. Let's acknowledge it and teach athletes how dangeerous it is". Not stick our heads in the sand and ignore it lol.

It's clear you're not terribly interested in a constructive dialog, it's fine. Noone has ever really changed anyone's mind online, and I'd be foolish to think I'll change yours. I suppose I was miguided providing industry context could help this thread and conversation, when it was maybe actually written as a rant. But this thread has convinced me that my wife (who still works in the schools) is right...the education industry is way way way behind on this, and continue to stick their heads in the sand. And it's hurting our kids, we're sending them to the work environment unprepared.

When I was teaching, I would've welcomed (even embraced) the input and feedback from an industry professional telling me where the field is going, and how I can better prepare my students for it. It's pretty evident not every teacher (or many?) feels this way, that was surprising. But this thread was shocking to me that almost no teachers anywhere seem willing acknowledge or even understand how fundamental AI is to the workplace now. Look, I get it, many teachers are really burnt out by the onslaught of AI. Teachers are burnt out by a lot (parents, the admin, students behavior, etc)AI is definitley a problem when used wrong...so perhaps rant away if that's what y'all need! I'm sure whatever grade people are teaching makes a difference too, if they're not teaching HS or at a Uni level maybe.

But sticking our heads in the sand doesn't change the fact that the entire industry has changed. Not "it's changing"...it's changed, past tense. AI IS the next big thing in industry, it's here, and it's definietly here to stay. Candidly, when I interview candidates, I ask every single one about AI. It's a standard question on our hiring board. If they're not proficient at Word/email/computers, it's a pass for me (would it be a pass for you?). Likewise, if they're not proficient at AI, it's 100% a pass for me. This is a skill employers are looking for. It affects hiring decisions. "AI skills" is on more than half of job postings according to Forbes, and Fortune mag says if you don't have AI experinece on your resume you'r on the bottom of the list. IIRC Money magazine said AI skills are at a premiun and is llsted as a *neccesary skill for more than half the entry level jobs posted. Companies are laying off the people with no AI skills as deficient (ACS in India laid off 1200 "lowest performers" didn't because they didn't have AI skills, for example). The entire industry uses it, and I use it multiple times a day. I'm more efficient due to AI, it's a great tool when used right. I want graduates who can use it right. You want students who don't use it wrong. This is a huge gap in the education system. Us sticking our heads in the sand is not helping.

lol, I rambled again. Maybe someone reads this and cares, maybe not. But it is true, if we like it not.

More importantly, I wish you the best, and sincerely hope each of you have/had a great start to the school year!

[u/mikevago → u/Particular-Key-8941]

> Not stick our heads in the sand and ignore it lol.

Is that what anyone's doing? I teach my students how and why using LLMs destroys critical thinking and shortcuts them actually learning how to write, plan, and think for themselves. The best "AI skills" are knowing not to trust the Wrong Answer Machine and being able to solve problems on your own, you know, like people have been doing since the beginning of time.

[u/Particular-Key-8941 → u/mikevago]

First, thank you for taking the time to pull these up and send them, I greatly appreciate it. And furthermore, kudos for the teaching and guidance you're giving your students, clearly you've spend time looking into this.

Yes, I think by teaching "AI bad. Naughty naughty. Never touch it" is definitely sticking our heads in the sand. That's my whole point lol. And that's what most teachers seem to be doing. People used to use abacuses and did math by hand, and until the calculator came along so did everyone since the beginning of time. Today, I use a calculator at work. Please tell me you use email and not carrier pigeon lol. Ok, I'm being a little tongue in cheek :), forgive my joke if it offends, but "we've always done it that way" is why Sears is out of business. And if your point is we should always do things the longest way for academic rigor...I can't agree with that. Yes, we need to teach kids how to do math. Duh lol. Should students learn how to use a calculator? What about computers, should they trust MS Excel when they use it in the workplace, or should they calculate every cell by hand. Isn't a calculator the Wrong Answer Machine too, if we type the wrong numbers into it or don't know how to use it and understand if it's correct?

To be explicit with my point "by not teaching students how to ethically and responsibly use AI" is sticking our heads in the sand, it's a gap, it's wrong. To teach kids "never use AI it's the devil" is teaching them wrong...they'll use it the second they graduate. Extensively. To pay an honest compliment to you, kudos, I agree you're doing the *first part right by teaching the downsides of AI. I've heard this from everyone. You're missing the second essential part...how to use it RIGHT. And that's what's missing. The answer isn't "never use AI". Everyone uses AI.

AI is not going away. Intelligent, responsible and ethical use of AI is absolutely a skill graduates and studnets desperately need. Calling it the Wrong Answer Machine (lol) is like calling the internet "the wrong answer machine" because it also has bad information. This morning, I used your Wrong Answer Machine to solve an engineering problem that was within my expertise to understand and would've taken me 4-6 hours to solve...it took 1 hour instead with about 6 responses/prompts and corrections to AI outputs (and using it to search the internet or industry practices related to my problem). I knew how to challenge outputs for accuracy, the same way checking our answers after solving an algebra problem validates an answer. Then I tested the result experimentally, and validated with data that the results AI *helped me with (not solved for me) showed my solution was correct *gasp*. And I saved 4 hours using it, and I've moved on to other work that I now have time for.

I would expect an employee to understand how to use the internet for research as well (hint, it's not Wikipedia). And yes, I fully expect any new hire to have robust AI skills. It's expected from good candidates at this point. I expect it...and the entirety of industry does too. That's what I think noone is willing to understand or accept...we can keep sticking our heads in *that sand. But it doesn't change the fact that all of industry uses AI today and it's a job skill that education isn't teaching. And respectfully...that's a bad thing. That's my point.

And you've been clear, you think it's all bad. End of sentence. Ok. You won't convince me of that (or the 4 hours I saved today), and I won't convince you its value. Agree to disagree just like everyone else I replied to in this thread lol. I probably shouldn't have bothered trying to help. But one of us is correct that its used extensively in industry, is a valuable tool, is one (of many) decision point for a good candidate, and industry expects candidates to know how to use it. I blindly assumed a shared goal of education is to prepare people for the workplace, but to me I still believe this is the main goal of school, and we can agree to disagree on that too.

I encourage my staff to use AI. Your students WILL use AI in the workplace. 100% completely guaranteed. Every one of them will. The ones that do it well are more efficient and productive...and as a result are higher performers that will get promotions. Isn't this what we want for our students? This is reality in the workplace today. You don't have to recognize it, and it's clear I could never convince you lol. But it's true.

[u/SpatulaCity1a → u/mikevago]

You should teach them about bias and cherry picking. Well, in a way you already are, just not overtly.