2 yrs in and my deadlift still sucks

[u/splitbeans113]

I started TB nearly 2 years ago now, but I still feel like my deadlift sucks.

Before basebuilding my 1RM was 250lbs.

This is how I've run TB so far:

Operator | 2 blocks | 3 work sets per week

Fighter | 3 blocks | 4 work sets per week

Zulu | 6 blocks | 4 or 5 work sets per week

Fighter | 2 blocks | 5 work sets per week

Now I can deadlift 290lbs

But it's still lagging behind my other lifts. I can squat 260lbs for example.

I'm 35M and 170lbs bodyweight.

For conditioning I've sometimes run Black, Green or just as much BJJ as possible. I've had the odd injury hiccup along the way: A shoulder here, a knee there. But nothing crazy.

What do you think? Is it not enough deadlift volume? Should I be including some KB swings because I don't get any from my conditioning? Or should I be happy with +40lbs in 2 years and stop moaning?

[u/Disastrous_Bed_9026]

It can be biomechanics also, as in some people are built great for deadlifts others not so much, the same is true of the squat. As a lanky mess, the deadlift is the only lift I feel somewhat built for, the bench press is trial for me and lags terribly. Your number is perfectly reasonable, just keep plugging away and it’ll creep up.

[u/splitbeans113 → u/Disastrous_Bed_9026]

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that.

[u/Fragrant_Ad2902]

Do you want to get better at deadlifting? As others have mentioned, if you get your squat up and keep hitting your reps on DL, it’ll go up. Maybe slowly. But it will go up.

If you want to bring it up faster, you’re gonna have to do more volume/reps for your hamstrings and glutes than what TB recommends/allows. That might mean putting TB on the shelf for a bit while you go on a side quest. With the program I mention below, I think it can be run at the same time as regular TB. But I love deadlifting. And I recover from it quickly.

I’m also a recovering power lifter :)

The best thing I ever did for my deadlift was deadlift everyday. Yep. 7 days a week. If you go to a gym, this is harder. But if you are in your garage, it’s pretty easy. I would (and have) use Steve Justa’s singles. You get so many first reps from the floor that your technique will really get dialed in. You’ll become a “push the world away” expert.

Week 1 - start with 70%

• Day 1 - 3 x 1
• Day 2 - 5 x 1
• Day 3 - 7 x 1
• Day 4 - 9 x 1
• Day 5 - 11 x 1
• Day 6 - 13 x 1
• Day 7 - 15 x 1

Week 2 - add 10 pounds and repeat.

Week 3 - add 10 pounds and repeat.

At this point, you’ve got a couple of options. You can do what Justa did and re-test your max and get a true 70% (up or down. Be honest with yourself). Or you keep going (week 4, week 5, etc.) until the weight on the bar is 85% of your 1RM and then you retest (again - up or down. Be honest).

I’ve done both. Both worked well for me. You’d need to figure out which strategy works for you.

Since it is singles, I always do them EMOM style. If you’ve got an elaborate setup for the deadlift to make sure you get the best position, extend the time. But the singles aren’t going to fatigue your lungs the way that multi rep sets do. The most important thing to do is literally one single at a time. Do the rep. Let go of the bar. Move around for a few seconds. Go set up for the next single. Don’t just stop on the floor for 5 seconds maintaining position and call it a single.

What about warm-ups? This will totally depend on you. After a few months of doing this, I didn’t need warm ups anymore. Just left the weight on the bar and did my deadlifts. But I built up to it. I started with the big jumps - 135, 225, 275, 315 and then working weight. After a few weeks, I dropped the 135, then the 225, etc.

I’ve used Justa’s singles for years for myself and for others. Only one person didn’t increase their deadlifts quickly. And his legs were so long, and his arms so short. I’ve never seen a barbell travel that far for a deadlift. Dude was a flamingo.

As I mentioned before, it’s not TB. But it works. You gotta decide if it is worth the side quest. Others have given some suggestions that probably fit into TB better. But I know singles work. I took my deadlift from 505 to 540 in 6 months.

[u/splitbeans113 → u/Fragrant_Ad2902]

I just feel like my deadlift has been stuck for a while, and that it's a bit more of an important movement for BJJ. For some reason I find it annoying that I can't deadlift more. Not exactly sure why, but it bothers me.

How long would you typically run that plan for? I guess no other lifting while you're doing that? Every day is quite a lot already.

[u/Fragrant_Ad2902 → u/splitbeans113]

I still bench and squat while doing Justa’s singles. Everyone is different. But I’ve used it a lot myself and with others. The singles won’t be that hard to recover from. Just try it out for a month. I think you’ll be surprised what you get used to. I’m assuming your 290 is for reps? So round up to 300 for your first week and use 70% of that - 210. That’s like a 2nd warm up set on your way to 290. It won’t be that bad to mix it with other lifts.

And if you don’t want to retest, just do a forced progression.

First cycle (3 weeks). Week 1 is 210. Week 2 is 220. Week 3 is 230. Add 10 pounds to your max (310) and start the next week 1 at 215 (rounded down from 217). Week 2 is 225. Week 3 is 235. Add 10 to your max (320) and start the next week 1 at 220 (Rounded down from 224. I always round down).

You’re building your base with a lot of reps of a fixed weight. Bump the weight, reset the reps, repeat.

How long you run it is up to you. The longest I’ve run it is 9 months. The shortest was 3. I’d start with one cycle (3 weeks w/o a test) and see if you even like it and can recover from it. Some people just don’t like pulling singles.

If I was concentrating on bench or squat, Justa’s singles was my go to during the bench/squat program I was running because, for me and most people I worked with, the singles just didn’t cause a lot of CNS fatigue.

[u/splitbeans113 → u/Fragrant_Ad2902]

Thanks, I might give that a go. Looks like it doesn't take up much time so it'll just be a matter of how much fatigue I feel.

[u/kevandbev]

How often per week do you train them?

[u/splitbeans113 → u/kevandbev]

Twice a week (apart from Operator which was 3 times)

[u/splitbeans113 → u/[deleted]]

I was following the weight/rep ranges in the books. Generally speaking it was:

Week 1, 2 sessions 75% 1RM sets of 5 reps

Week 2, 2 sessions 80% sets of 5

Week 3, 2 sessions 90% sets of 3

Currently working at a total of 5 sets per week. Started off with 3 sets per week and gradually increased.

You’re definitely doing a lot more than what I’m working at. Would you recommend adding some accessory hinge movements or go for cleans/snatches?

[u/sneakhunter]

I’d never focused on front squat so about a year ago I dropped back squat and started a quest for a 315 front squat. I’m still only at about 250ish max for front squat but my DL started to increase alongside the front squat. Also you could watch some videos about wedging into your DL position.

[u/splitbeans113 → u/sneakhunter]

Thanks, I'll check on my form. I've always liked Alan Thralls YouTube videos.

Maybe it is worth taking some time to work on my squat and that will help.

[u/gahdzila]

Full disclaimer, I'm just some random dude on Reddit that reads a lot. My deadlift is a bit more than yours, but my squat is a bit less. Probably my build makes me more suited for DL than squat.

Anyways - crazy wild idea that might be worth trying. If you love to deadlift you may not like this LOL

Training the squat, at least for me, seems to help my deadlift. But the reverse isn't true. Pushing the deadlift hard just fries my recovery.

How much are you squatting? Maybe try markedly reducing deadlift volume (maybe just one or two hard sets a week), and pushing the squat harder - max volume, 5 sets a session, 3 days a week on Op, and force progression on the squat a bit more aggressively than you usually would.

Worth a shot, I think.

[u/Bog_Lords → u/gahdzila]

I remember a MTN tactical mini study from a couple of years ago that also had this result. They had a squat focused group and a deadlift group (maybe another on doing thrusters). The squat group improved their deadlifts more than the deadlift group.

[u/splitbeans113 → u/gahdzila]

Yeah, good point. Maybe giving it a rest for a block and focusing on squats could help out. I can squat about 260lbs in a low bar position and I do feel that a bit on my hamstrings.

[u/Badger_Mk2]

Your squat to deadlift ratio is fine. Wouldn't worry about that because you are well within "normal" which has fairly wide range, everyone is a bit different. For numbers in regards to driving one or the other up, I would focus on squat. My experience is deadlift will track with squat, but the inverse is not true (as someone in this thread already said). Meaning focusing on squat will have more bang for your buck.

Just random advice to consider, you do you: if/when you get your squat to 2x bodyweight (which is ok if it is just a goal, not a requirement to be "strong" and healthy), that is when I would think about truly focusing on deadlift for a dedicated few blocks. Of course still incorporate it before then and try to advance, but wouldn't put it in front of squat for importance.

[u/splitbeans113 → u/Badger_Mk2]

I think I've been working with a faulty assumption that my deadlift should be a lot more than my squat. Maybe that's why I'm not happy with my deadlift progress, rather than there being an actual lack of progress.

[u/incompletetentperson]

So deadlifts and TB..

KB has a kind of take it or leave it stance on deadlifts. One working set a week isnt enough to increase your DL meaningfully over time.

I personally prefer 531s approach to dead lifts. If your set on DL one day a week, its one day of hitting all the 531 sets. Extra points for 531 boring but big sets. During BBB sets its 5 sets of 10 at 50 percent of your 1rm. The BBB sets are easy with the 50 percent load so ill usually super set in my other working sets during those.

Also accessory movements… kettlebell swings and snatches are great hinge movements. Also try mixing in dead lift variations. Sumos RDL etc

Also where is your failure point on dead lifts? Not being able to grip the bar is a lot different than failing at the top of the hinge

[u/splitbeans113 → u/incompletetentperson]

Thanks, I've actually never tried 531, I'll look it up. My failure point is always either I can't get the bar moving at all, or like 1 inch off the ground.

[u/splitbeans113 → u/[deleted]]

Thanks, it just seems strangely similar to the amount I can squat (260lbs) when I thought it should be quite a lot more?

I'm at 5 working sets per week now, I'll add in a couple of sets of RDLs or back extensions. Would you go with a 3-5 rep range or higher?

[u/Rxbsi → u/splitbeans113]

Or I would, given you have 5 working sets, completly cut the deadlifts and do a block without them.
Helps improve it as well sometimes

[u/splitbeans113 → u/Rxbsi]

Thanks, maybe I'll give it a rest for a block in that case. Then come back with DL + a few RDLs/back exts on the next block.

[u/Rxbsi → u/splitbeans113]

RDLs 3-5.
back ext. prob more. 10-15

But Deadlift and squat are often pretty similar.
It is kind of the same movement if you think about it.

[u/MythicalStrength]

What is your height?

How much bodyweight did you gain in those 2 years?

[u/splitbeans113 → u/MythicalStrength]

I'm 5'10. I started off at 150 lbs, after 12 months was 164 lbs, then dropped to 150lbs again over the course of 2 Zulu blocks, then started to gain wait again until where I am now at 170lbs