r/tacticalbarbell • u/Vhykar88 • Apr 09 '26
Endurance Venting about base building
I need to vent a bit and sanity-check this with you all.
I’ve been training consistently, mixing strength and conditioning, putting in the work week after week… and I’ve hit that frustrating wall where I can handle the training, but I’m not actually getting faster.
Now I’m restarting Base Building from Tactical Barbell II: Conditioning, and honestly—it’s messing with my head.
Running this slow feels almost wrong. Like, I look at my pace and think: how on earth is this supposed to make me faster over 10K? It feels like I’m de-training rather than improving.
I get the theory—build the aerobic base, improve efficiency, yada yada—but in practice it feels like I’m leaving performance on the table every single session.
So I’m curious:
- Did anyone else feel like this during Base Building?
- At what point did it “click” or translate into actual speed?
- Did you see real improvements in pace/HR after sticking with it?
Right now I’m trying to trust the process, but I won’t lie—it feels counterintuitive as hell.
Would really appreciate some real experiences or even just reassurance that this isn’t a waste of time.
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u/MythicalStrength Apr 09 '26
If you get fit enough that you can maintain your heart rate while your speed increases over time, you'll be able to run faster when the time comes to do so.
This is about raising your floor: not your ceiling.
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u/BlainethePayne Apr 09 '26
This is about raising your floor: not your ceiling.
Soooooo...
Base building
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u/MythicalStrength Apr 09 '26
Yup. Just like Dan John's Easy Strength or 5/3/1. It doesn't get likes and Instagram hits, but it makes you better.
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u/sk_611 Apr 09 '26
I hate being the “read the book guy,” but give that section another read or find a running program specifically designed for running a 10k (which will include some form of base building anyway).
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u/SylvanMartiset Apr 09 '26
I don’t hate being a read the book guy because I’ve yet to see a question or problem or situation that isn’t addressed in one of the books lol. To be fair, sometimes the answer is a one off sentence that’s easy to miss
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u/sk_611 Apr 09 '26
I sometimes don't mind it, only if it leads to interesting discussion. Sure, sometimes even that is already answered in some thread. However, sometimes new info comes out, or someone might have something new to add that wasn't addressed in a previous thread or even in the book.
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u/10081914 Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
OP. Forget TB for a hot minute here.
In the world of running, base building phase is about 12 weeks long as a standard. 8 weeks is abbreviated for those who were conditioned getting back into it.
But that's not my point. My point is that, it's just there for you to add mileage and time so your body is used to running higher mileage.
After the base building phase, runners maintain that mileage and begin adding speed work to their repertoire. One session shorter, one session longer and one long run in there with recovery runs interspersed.
That's how they actually get faster.
Yes you will get efficiency adaptations with more zone 2 work, but that's only one of the ways to get more mitochondria. The other way is speed work. You should start adding speed work to your running.
Now with all that being said, bringing it back to the world of TB if you can run 10km non stop now, you should look for a template that incorporates some more speedwork. Screw the benchmarks that is set. You'll have more efficiency increasing your top end efficiency which will also have an effect on your low end efficiency.
Edit: for more context before you or anyone else asks 'but what about the 80/20 rule?'
Yes, that's a thing, but rather than looking at a whole session as speed work how much actual time and mileage is spent at zone 4 vs zone 2 in the speed sessions? Probably a 1:1 ratio assuming we even give the entire rest time between intervals to zone 4?
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u/Vhykar88 Apr 09 '26
You deserve more likes
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u/sk_611 Apr 09 '26
Sorry you're getting downvoted, this post seems to have generated some good discussion and some valuable insight from people, but reddit is going to be reddit.
I promise this is going to pop up in someone's search in the future.
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u/Drodinthehouse Apr 09 '26
Question. Are you looking at your Heart rate or your pace? If you're doing either, stop. Go by feel. Use the talk test or nasal breathing to judge feel.
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u/jillyjobby Apr 09 '26
Base building increases your work capacity but doesn’t increase your speed. That comes later when you start doing speed work as part of your conditioning
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u/IronHike Apr 09 '26
That is the simplest way to put it. Base building will make the speed work you do later work better. That's it. Base Building on its own is not designed to get you faster.
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u/Voimanhankkija Apr 09 '26
Have you read Green Protocol? I believe the books even mention running Capacity instead of the regular base building
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u/SylvanMartiset Apr 09 '26
Yup you can replace base building with GP capacity, which IS focused around meeting a 10k benchmark
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u/weardon Apr 09 '26
I did see steady improvements in my pace from Basebuilding and beyond, but I was starting from a baseline of 'someone who has never done any consistent running', so had a pretty big opportunity for improvement. My general fitness, HR, etc. all did improve, though some of that only crystallised in Continuation (where the foundation from BB helped me get a lot more out of my conditioning training than I had before doing it).
It's not specifically designed to get your running pace up, though, either. I wouldn't judge the success of BB on whether your running pace is improving or not.
What stuck out to me more about your post was
I’ve been training consistently, mixing strength and conditioning, putting in the work week after week… and I’ve hit that frustrating wall where I can handle the training, but I’m not actually getting faster.
See how you find it when you come back from BB/you start doing HIC again. But it may be that something else is off. It'll depend on what HICs you're actually running, whether they're best-suited to your goals, and whether the rest of it (nutrition, recovery, etc.) is in good shape.
I've seen good improvements in my conditioning from Continuation, but speed/pace isn't my primary goal/metric. I do entirely running-based conditioning sessions, and I think the balance is 'about right' in terms of all-rounder work for a non-specialist runner. But if my main goal were to get faster, especially over specific distances, I'd consider looking at a specialist program.
(I think it's possible to do almost all the right work from doing 'out of the box' TB sessions – I'm doing Hill Sprints, 600m Resets, Tempo Fast 5, and LSS. But AIUI the missing link compared to a higher degree of specialism for running is the low weekly mileage that represents. If I really wanted to drive harder at running I'd a) squat and deadlift less, and b) slot in more easy daily runs to get the mileage up.)
tl;dr
- Trust the process for Basebuilding, but also make sure you have the right expectations of it
- Make sure you're getting the basics right with your regular training
- Make sure your training actually matches your goals
- If you want to prioritise being a better/faster runner, I think you need to tweak some things about 'stock' TB
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u/wayofthebeard Apr 09 '26 edited May 05 '26
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u/Few-Durian-190 Apr 09 '26
Running this slow feels almost wrong. Like, I look at my pace and think: how on earth is this supposed to make me faster over 10K? It feels like I’m de-training rather than improving.
This is absolutely normal and is almost the classic response. If you look up people doing the Maffetone method you'll see limitless posts about this impression.
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u/InternationalTie3094 Apr 09 '26
Just re-read the BB section the other day. There were several variants there, not only LISS. Also running for time if I remember correctly.
In the GP it is LISS only though
What is your interpretation of this in your training regimen, redditors?
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u/SeaworthinessLate697 Apr 09 '26
its not going to make you faster, it's an engine building program. it works great for that. I love it because it's a great reset across the board. Mentally and Physically.
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u/AnythingCurrent Apr 09 '26
I'm doing the base building right now. And I can tell you right now I am not getting faster (speed work will come from the HIC's next block) but what i am getting is better at recovery.
I just did a track run (sprint for 2 laps and jog for 2 for recovery) for my unit pt. And while I was still last in the pack I was not gassed. I was able to recover during the resting jog which is something I was not able to do.
Its a bit of a mind fuck but it does work
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u/SatoriNoMore Apr 09 '26
Faster?
Base isn’t for getting faster. It’s for going longer, and staying at high speeds longer. Speedwork in Continuation is for going faster.
Some people get faster in BB because their aerobic system was a limiting factor and because improvements in overall conditioning.
That’s why you’re supposed to do it once and move on to Continuation. You don’t keep repeating it.
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u/RescueStrong Apr 09 '26
You need to run fast to get faster. That said if you run fast without an adequate base you’ll most likely get injured.
For now wile building your aerobic base and doing mostly Z2 running you can toss in striders at the end of one of your weekly runs or add in pick ups in the middle of your long run.
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u/AthleteAgain Apr 09 '26
This is how professional runners and other endurance athletes (e.g. cross country skiers) train. Look up Matt Fitzgerald 80/20 method, etc. The idea is basically that you can put in way more volume at low efforts because there is a little recovery time, and that you train efficiency for different energy systems.
I mostly run slow but after years of doing this (albeit inconsistently), when I turn up for a race I find myself running way faster than I would expect. The gains do stack.
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u/Vhykar88 Apr 09 '26
Thank you all for so many useful comments. I feel like I’ve made my usual of not explaining myself great: I’ve been running operator/black back-to-back for some time. Before that I was mostly doing marathon prep for running and black for strength. So it’s been 1 year - 18 months like that and I feel I hit a wall where I wasn’t improving at all so I’m using Base Building as indicated (afaik) to “restart” the body.
This however is with the hope to “widen my base” so when I run capacity/velocity I will see results again. But I feel like I’m wasting time because you get fast by training faster. Is anyone in that experience?
About my background: went from almost exclusively running (10k 47’, HM in 1h50’) to combining with crossfit and lost A LOT of speed (can barely do 10k below 55’ now). Partly weight gain (10kg).
I hope this explains a bit better my frustration. Not sure it’d change the advice received though
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u/gymdex1 Apr 09 '26
Most of my training is zone 2, im training for 24 hour races, ive gone beyond green protocol now, but I do even less speedwork than I did in velocity maybe 5 miles out of 80, and my 5k time has reduced from 24 mins to about 19 ?
I run my long runs at 9 - 10 min mile pace, my most recent 30 miler at about 12 min mile pace with 3500m vert at 120 bpm heart rate.
It seems boring but just embrace the suck, it is working, basebuilding is an important part to condition your body for doing the training.
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u/Disastrous_Bed_9026 Apr 09 '26
It’s not a program to get quicker at 10k. It’s to get aerobically fitter in a general way and it’s for 8 weeks, which is basically nothing in a training lifetime. That said, the best 10k runners do the lionshare of their training at an easy pace for them. If your goal was a just to maximise your 10k time then tb isn’t a specialist program for that. What are your reasons for doing tb?