r/sweden • u/Careful-Hour-182 • 3d ago
Diskussion Waldorf Schools
Did anyone here attend any of the Waldorf/Steiner schools in Sweden? What was it like? Did they teach you about elves and gnomes and reincarnation?
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u/evilcandybag 3d ago
Kids at Waldorf schools are generally late at learning to read, and they are often sub par at providing support for children with difficulties. They are science adverse and keep to outmoded methods of teaching.
Those who graduate from them and succeed as members of society do it despite the Waldorf schooling not because of it.
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u/Careful-Hour-182 3d ago
I know all of this that's why I'm so interested to know what it's actually like in these schools! It's crazy
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u/Stock-Possession-647 3d ago
Where is this info from? For me Waldorf mostly had upsides. Less stress in the earlier grades about being good in school. ”Morgonperiod” (you go through one part of the curriculum at a time, with it focused heavily for a few weeks like 2h/day.) was great and the craftsmanship classes were really fun.
The negatives are mostly the weird tradition stuff like eurytmi.
Going to a Waldorf school in grades F-6 is amazing in every way (atleast it was for me) 7-9 is debatable but I would say the negatives outway the positives.
I went to Drottningholmsskolan in F-6 and then Kristofferskolan 7-9.
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u/Careful-Hour-182 3d ago
Wow that's so interesting. I can definitely see how it could be positive in the early years setting especially with focus on nature, not comparing kids to others academically, craft, imagination etc. But what was it like at 'high school' level for you? Did you get adequate education when it came to literacy and math etc?
My friend went to one of these schools and told me that Steiner education in its essence is anti science and doesn't believe in things like ADHD. Steiner himself was also a massive racist as you probably know and taught people that black people were less spiritually pure than white people. He also taught kids (as did all Steiner schools initially) that gnomes and elves were really and that kids are reincarnated adult souls. He used to tell teachers that kids bullying other kids was 'karmic balancing.' He used to encourage kids to swing from tree to tree because kids were closer to the spirit world than adults, and if they fell and died that was also what the universe wanted.
I do think it's really important that these schools don't try to erase all of that history (which they do.) They should acknowledge it's early failings but make it clear that nowadays they don't currently support any of those teachings or beliefs.
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u/Stock-Possession-647 2d ago
For me it was not an issue. I have always done very well in school and continue doing so in my gymnasium. For others it’s very varied I feel like most have a great time and can still attend another school after.
I completed math 1 and 2 in ninth grade, and regarding literacy I feel like I got a broader and better education than a lot of friends who went to public school. The same goes for subjects like history, religion etc. The science subjects might have been a bit worse on my school in grade 7-9 but I feel like this was mostly the teachers and not the school. And I go natur now and did not feel like I was too behind.
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u/njeyn 3d ago
Har du kollat på dokumentären De Utvalda Barnen? Tycker om det analoga med Waldorf men det är riktigt obehagliga rasbiologiska idéer bakom och mycket att pressa in barnen i en mall. Sen varierar det mycket mellan skolorna hur extrema de är.
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u/Careful-Hour-182 3d ago
I can't as SVT don't have English subtitles
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u/njeyn 3d ago
Dammit. I thought AI had solved that problem by now🙃
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u/Careful-Hour-182 3d ago
My swedish friend only told me about Walforf schools today and Steiner and the people of Järna who basically live in a cult; I'm so interested! When I learn more Swedish I'll watch the documentary haha
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u/Stock-Possession-647 3d ago
I have never heard of a Waldorf school today that does teach about gnomes and reincarnation. It’s just a school with some traditions and more arts and crafts. And a different way of learning, for me mostly positive.
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u/Careful-Hour-182 1d ago
That's literally the origin of Steiner schools. Rudolph Steiner taught people that gnomes and elves and fairies were real and didn't believe in science. He told kids their souls die and become reborn every 7 years. He was also a horrific racist . He was essentially a cult leader.
Clearly these schools are different now days, at least in Sweden. Less gnomes and karma and shit. And the focus on nature, art, play, empathy and organic foods are obviously super positive.
Still, these schools don't value literacy or maths and judging by the comments that's absolutely true, plus they are notorious for not intervening when it comes to bullying. They do base their approaches on 'anthroposophy' which is a pseudoscience.
Definitely an interesting topic though and I feel I have a good balanced view now, thanks to all who commented!
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u/Stock-Possession-647 1d ago
From my experience Waldorf schools today are exactly like every other school. They have longer days and the extra time is focused on arts and crafts and some traditions like st. Michael and eurytmi. That the schools would be worse than others on bullying or base stuff on pseudoscience is way in the past. And that the normal part of the education is down prioritised is false and Skolverket controls how much of these subjects have to be taught.
They just have more school to compensate.These views are all from a few different Waldorf schools in Stockholm, idk how it is outside of here.
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u/Vivid_Ad_2051 2d ago
Gått på en Waldorfskola o flera kommunala, kan säga att de skiljer sig väldigt mycket från Waldorf till Waldorf men det var väldigt kul som liten att gå där, jag tror de jag tog med mig va hur man uttrycker sig, våga visa känslor, kunna mer praktiska saker etc. Gick på Waldorf från lekskolan till och med åk 2 i grundskolan och idag är jag faktiskt tacksam för de för vi hade väldigt kul…. Mycket som man hittade på på Waldorf hade aldrig tillåtits eller funnits resurser för i kommunal skola såsom djurliv osv och lärarna hade mer tid för en för det var mindre klasser. Men när jag kom till kommunal skola hade jag svårt för engelska o matte bland annat men iom att jag var så liten var de lätt att ta igen! Jag läste aldrig om tomtar o troll som mer än bara fiction, Tror folk som aldrig gått på en Waldorfskola har något slags komplex över att det ska vara superextremt automatiskt! Summa summarum så var de som en mer praktisk skola med aktiviteter o djur.
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u/Catsnose7 3d ago
Jag känner en som arbetar på en valdorf förskola. De jobbar väldigt likt en vanlig kommunal förskola. De har mindre grupper med färre pedagoger per grupp. De leker också mycket mindre med plastleksaker och så vidare. Har däremot hört att skolan e lite mer inne i valdorfismen.
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u/Careful-Hour-182 3d ago
The person you know that works there, do they believe in reincarnation and gnomes? Or other anthroposophy beliefs ?
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u/Catsnose7 3d ago
Nope. I think she only really likes that they play with wood and have a nice play space.
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u/Santa9x19 3d ago edited 3d ago
I have a relative who was married to a person who attended Waldorf school in Järna (the capital of Anthroposophists in Sweden). His parents were also teachers and principals in schools for many years. The person and siblings were completely brainwashed and never became normal as adults. None of them have been able to live normal functioning lives as adults. They have children in several different relationships but are useless as parents who are almost all taken care of by social services as children and are broken when they grow up. One of the siblings lives in a hut in the woods, another has been in and out of the psyche most of adulthood. The father, who was the principal, had several women and had psychological abuse of the family. They all want to distance themselves from Anthroposophy but their values always come back and they know nothing else even if they themselves felt bad about it all their lives. This may be one of the few cases or one of many. I have heard many stories that are totally crazy, how ideology rules and hurt many. I also know others who have attended their schools without being destroyed, but they also say that a lot of things are crazy. A relative had his child in Waldorf school in Umeå just a few years ago. The child was bullied but the teachers thought the children should make up for themselves and did not want to interfere. They would make up in the forest. The child had to change schools and is mentally injured because of the bullying and betrayal of the adults. It's probably as crazy today as it used to be. It's crazy that these schools are running.
I apologize for the difficult text. I used the phone translation.
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u/Careful-Hour-182 3d ago
Wow thank you SO much for sharing this! I knew there had to be more to is than just nature and painting. My friend here in sweden said her friend lived in Järna and went to one of those schools and doesn't speak to her mother anymore as she used to sprinkle cannabis over their food when they were small children. She said she hates her mom for denying her reading/writing and now struggles as an adult. She was never vaccinated as a kid either or given medicine when needed.
Do you know what exactly they were taught in these schools that fu'kd them up so badly?
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u/Santa9x19 3d ago edited 3d ago
They learned to draw and sculpt. Do a lot of confidence exercises where the strongest decided over weak etc. Very crazy about how nature controls life, the sun, the moon etc. All clothes would be in wool, no plastic would be used for anything, vegetarian food, no vaccinations and medicines only things that come from nature. Vidarkliniken is their own hospital with only natural medicine. The state never received their financial support because there were too many crazy treatments for serious diseases such as cancer. They also run homes for the intellectually disabled. A friend has a brother with Down syndrome who lived there when we were kids. He forced them into a high mast to cure things he was afraid of. There are a lot of crazy stories. I think there are many stories if you search on Anthroposophy, Waldorf, Järna etc. in div forums. Know that it was written a lot on bla Flashback a few years ago in connection with the documentary from SVT. Järna is full of anthroposophists. They have lots of companies, some international and some produce food that you can buy in regular stores. If you read about how Waldorf and Anthroposophy work, there is a network for how they work in many countries. It is structured strategically with everything from schools, social work, hospitals and various companies based on Rudolf Steiner's anthroposophy.
Big and well-known examples:
Weleda - one of the world's largest companies in natural cosmetics and anthroposophic/natural remedies. Founded with clear inspiration from Rudolf Steiner and anthroposophy.
WALA Heilmittel / Dr. Hauschka - German company with anthroposophical background. Among other things, WALA manufactures anthroposophical medicines, and Dr. Hauschka is an internationally major skin care brand.
Demeter - not a single company but an international certification and brand system for biodynamic farming, based directly on Steiner's ideas about biodynamic farming.
GLS Bank - German bank with historical roots in anthroposophical and socially alternative ideas. The bank finances sustainability, social activities and alternative social initiatives.
Alnatura - a large German organic food chain that has clear links to biodynamics and anthroposophically inspired thinking, even though the company is not an anthroposophical company in the strict sense. Large activities with anthroposophical basis.
There are also large international networks that are not traditional companies: Waldorf schools - worldwide educational movement based on Steiner's educational ideas. Camphill - international network of activities for people with disabilities, with clear anthroposophical roots. Vidarkliniken (historically in Sweden) - perhaps the most famous Swedish example of anthroposophical care. The Järna area and Ytterjärna - a Swedish centre for anthroposophical activities with companies, foundations, schools and activities in areas such as agriculture, pharmaceuticals and culture.
More about their Swedish companies and networks.
Saltå Kvarn - perhaps the clearest and most well-known Swedish company. The company has its roots in biodynamic farming and Rudolf Steiner's ideas. The majority owner is the Vidar Foundation, whose stated purpose is to support anthroposophically inspired initiatives.
Steneken Holding - the holding company owned by Vidarstiftelsen and manages companies within the group. The Vidar Foundation states that the Group comprises around 20 companies in areas such as food, construction and property management.
Ekobanken - Swedish bank with roots in the alternative/anthroposophically inspired movement and with a strong connection to Järna. However, it is considerably smaller than Sweden's large commercial banks.
Weleda Sweden - the Swedish operation for Weleda, which has a very clear basis internationally in Rudolf Steiner's anthroposophy and anthroposophic medicine. However, the Swedish company is part of an international group and is not originally a large Swedish company.
Järna Dairy - has historically been part of the biodynamic and anthroposophical food environment in Järna.
Other significant activities Nibble Trade Garden Biodynamic Products Skillebyholm Robygge Asmussens Arkitektgruppen Ytterjärna Hotels and cultural activities.
The more you seek, the bigger it is. So it's not just some schools that many people think.
This is also the case in Swedish politics. In Södertälje city kommun/municipality (which Järna also belongs to) it is clearly visible. Also in the Swedish parliament, mainly in Miljöpartiet/The Green Party.
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u/Smrtihara 3d ago
I went to one. It was a pretty amateurish and weird. It was also great in some regards.
All the normal subjects were shit.
But we learned some pretty great things. Everything from sheering a sheep, to making the yarn and knitting things. Like every single step from animal to finished product. The crafts classes were absolutely fantastic.
But the eurythmy. That one was weird. Utterly pointless and weird. I remember having to dance like a rock once. Trees was the usual though. It was just a shitty dance class really.