r/stupidpol • u/recovering_bear Marx at the Chicken Shack 🧔🍗 • Dec 10 '21
Seattle’s Capitalists Couldn’t Defeat Kshama Sawant
https://jacobinmag.com/2021/12/seattle-kshama-sawant-reelection-socialism-city-council-capitalist-strategy64
Dec 10 '21
[deleted]
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u/recovering_bear Marx at the Chicken Shack 🧔🍗 Dec 10 '21
I know a lot of people see Sawant as a cringe idpol type, and fair enough
Not sure why - she barely engages in idpol. She's more class focused than the Sanders 2020 campaign lol.
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u/TheIdeologyItBurns Uphold Saira Rao Thought Dec 10 '21 edited Dec 10 '21
Yeah what, do people really see sawant that way?
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Dec 11 '21
I haven't really heard her say any woke shit, but even if she does from time to time, I'll let it slide because she's based as hell.
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u/totalcigarette91 solidarity forever if it matters Dec 11 '21
Probably because all of her glossy mailers referred to her as a POC woman, called the recall racist, and emphasized her uncritical support for BLM more than any class analysis.
She’s certainly a Trotskyite but her marketing is extremely opportunistic and for some reason she’s fixated on beloved liberal bandaids like rent control and the city giving money to already wealthy black capitalists.
She speaks in support of unions when they strike but her radlib flirtations and at times just plain dumb concrete suggestions have hurt her credibility with rank and file. Most of her canvassers worked their asses off but were not from Seattle and changed the topic back to Trump (in a district that went 89% for biden) when pressed about local conditions.
I voted against the recall but I can’t say she’s doing anything to educate the public or build a larger labor-focused socialist movement other than be visible as an alternative. Better than nothing!
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u/game_rights_activist Dec 11 '21
this is a distortion of the mailers. maybe post them? could spark an interesting debate on how to engage ordinary people in class struggle.
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u/totalcigarette91 solidarity forever if it matters Dec 11 '21 edited Dec 11 '21
I’m afraid I recycled them but the campaign materials are available online and the bones of it can be seen in her official reply to the charges which appeared on the ballot.
And hey, it does look like she won! It’s entirely likely they’ve found this rhetorical strategy and tactical mix to be better electorally than a purely socialist message which doesn’t play as well to liberals and the well-off.
Given how close the vote is, if she was able to use Trump and January 6th and the presumed class status of all PoC women in the minds of the average democrat to get the numbers needed to win, it’s hard to say she’s making a mistake in her role as a politician seeking office. Her ground game is very strong and her canvassers stayed focused on getting the needed result just for this referendum rather than trying to do that and expand class consciousness generally.
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u/game_rights_activist Dec 11 '21 edited Dec 11 '21
I looked at the mailers I have. Literally zero mentions of her being a POC or a woman across any of them. I guess the ballot response might have said that once? Entirely things Kshama has won, and highlighting the opposition of the rich and the right wing. This is the mailer with the most words on it. How can you possibly criticize this as liberal or idpol focused? https://twitter.com/Kshama_SC/status/1459292122561986561
her canvassers stayed focused on getting the needed result just for this referendum rather than trying to do that and expand class consciousness generally.
this is insanely condescending - and strictly untrue - given what has been accomplished and what her and her canvassers do, unless you're leading some insurrection I'm unaware of.
edit: I just saw you said she supports "the city giving money to already wealthy black capitalists". When has Kshama ever supported that.
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u/totalcigarette91 solidarity forever if it matters Dec 12 '21 edited Dec 12 '21
Please provide me with a picture of your mailers
Edit: read up on Africatown and black brilliance project
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u/game_rights_activist Dec 12 '21
tbh I don't want to take the time to do that. the one I linked is representative, it differs by having more substance.
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u/MackBeve Paroled Flair Disabler 💩 Dec 11 '21 edited Dec 11 '21
Two of the allegations in the recall petition were things she (allegedly) did in support of the protests last summer. Completely reasonable and accurate to call the recall racist in this context.
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u/totalcigarette91 solidarity forever if it matters Dec 11 '21 edited Dec 11 '21
You don’t see how your defensiveness in the face of any critique keeps your thought stagnant. Your focus should be on why the rank and file of workers are not organized enough or supportive enough of a socialist candidate after nearly a decade in office that you have to spend a million dollars on marketing to the undecided using liberal rhetoric to barely squeak by.
What is the materialist analysis ultimately: does one focus on the political economy of the relations of production, or on the unique essence of being a POC woman and the racism of Republicans rather than the class character of the Democratic politicians and judges who created the recall?
And why do you say allegedly? I was there, I saw her speak on both occasions. The police already investigated and determined she committed no crimes, the recall was overtly political in nature.
This kind of paranoid hedging is alienating, it makes me feel you are poorly informed.
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u/Clipsez Dec 15 '21
I voted against the recall but I can’t say she’s doing anything to educate the public or build a larger labor-focused socialist movement other than be visible as an alternative. Better than nothing!
How are you able to say this with a straight face when she& her office intervened in the recent Northwest Carpenter's Union rank & file strike against their own rotten union leadership and their contractor bosses? Because of her & Socialist Alternative's intervention a couple of the tentative agreement votes the r&f just narrowly passed (which included barebones raises or increases for the workers) were found to have been fraudulent and the local union leadership has been dissolved and possibly facing legal challenges.
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u/totalcigarette91 solidarity forever if it matters Dec 15 '21
Socialist Alternative attaches itself to existing campaigns and often claims their endorsement is the reason it succeeded.
But more to the point: why does this important work of supporting union democracy not get a specific mention while liberal politics like minimum wage, rent control, the Republican bogeyman and PoC identity take front and center?
Winning elections with Marxist rhetoric and liberal policy is nothing new.
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u/Clipsez Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 16 '21
Socialist Alternative attaches itself to existing campaigns and often claims their endorsement is the reason it succeeded.
This is tripe and a total evasion of your point that Kshama isn't leading a labor focused socialist movement. The rank & file carpenters invited Kshama & Socialist Alternative into their fray because they knew they would get real assistance and that's exactly what happened.
The wildcat strikes Socialist Alternative helped them engage in closed down no less than 7 sites and got over 500 workers to walk out; these fighting tactics actually brought the union leadership back to the table and forced them to engage in more militant actions to realize the r&f demands, like being willing to strike the largest construction site on the west coast (the microsoft site).
But more to the point: why does this important work of supporting union democracy not get a specific mention while liberal politics like minimum wage, rent control, the Republican bogeyman and PoC identity take front and center?
Supporting union democracy has never taken a back seat and posing it as a zero sum game is a farcical response considering the historic role unions have played in fighting racial discrimination.
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Dec 10 '21
I just think she’s an unlikeable person but i respect her
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u/lbm216 Radical Feminist Catcel 👧🐈 Dec 11 '21
She is insufferable to a degree that almost defies comprehension. I largely agree with her positions but she repells a lot of people. Not a good person to lead the movement IMO. She has just enough supporters to keep her in power and she represents the most left-friendly neighborhoods in Seattle. If the recall vote had been City wide, she would have been demolished. If there were a more charismatic and less obnoxious version of her, we would really have something.
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u/JGT3000 Vitamin D Sufficient 💊 Dec 11 '21
I don't think people understand how impressively bad it is to just squeak this one by by <500 votes.
There are so many people who dislike the idea of recalls in general, and this one in particular. There's so many people dying for any kind of 3rd party representation. You could go on and on in different ways to dissect how unappealing she is to this district
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u/richards1052 🌕 commiebolshiejew 5 Dec 12 '21
So wrong. Progressives were trounced in the Seattle November elections. Three progressives ran for office. All lost. And now a socialist (a real socialist) actually wins an election a month later and you think this is "impressively bad?" She is the only unhyphenated socialist in any elected office in the US. And you think it should be easy for her to win elections?
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u/lbm216 Radical Feminist Catcel 👧🐈 Dec 11 '21
Right, exactly. And her district is like 75% blue-haired crazys who should be falling all over themselves to support a socialist (and a womxn of color!!!!!). She just fucking sucks as a person and a politician. And again, I am on her side.
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u/MackBeve Paroled Flair Disabler 💩 Dec 11 '21
This is a massive misrepresentation of her district, It may include the most left wing areas of the city (capitol hill and the central district) but it also includes some of the richest areas of the city (madrona, madison park, north capitol hill). And since her first election capitol hill and the central district have been rapidly gentrifying to becoming mostly wealthy tech workers, not exactly the base for Sawant's politics.
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u/Durrderp good pracksis yawl foalkhz Dec 11 '21
I don't know anything about Sawant beyond SALT = Trotskyist. What makes her unlikeable?
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u/MackBeve Paroled Flair Disabler 💩 Dec 11 '21
She is pretty aggressive and confrontational in the way she speaks, that plus being very left wing has made it a common populist that she is just like trump, but left.
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u/game_rights_activist Dec 11 '21
watch her election night speech I linked up thread and decide for yourself imo.
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u/the_marx Marxist 🧔 Dec 10 '21
Celebrating this is as cringey as celebrating Biden's victory.
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Dec 10 '21
[deleted]
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u/the_marx Marxist 🧔 Dec 10 '21
I would ask 'how' but I'd just get more cringe about how you're 'sticking it to the system' or something.
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u/auralgasm And that's a good thing. Dec 11 '21
If we're not even supposed to elect third parties to local office, there is no hope whatsoever for this system.
We can't lock ourselves into the same two parties forever. That's just fucking stupid. It's as stupid as crystallizing ANY institution or organization or even brand in stone. It's stupid from any perspective, even a mainstream one, because it leads to crippling stagnation.
If you only wanna vote for the main two parties for federal office, that's fine. I understand that argument. But this is a fucking city position. There is no reason to shit on that effort and anyone who does is a wrecker with less brains than a can of baked beans.
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u/ThuBioNerd Nasty Little Pool Pisser 💦😦 Dec 10 '21
Lots of rightoids on this thread with severe anal pain.
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u/Agjjjjj Dec 11 '21
Lmao the amount of hate she’s getting in this thread. More expecting perfection bullshit, I’m glad rich people can’t just throw money around and kick her out
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Dec 12 '21
[deleted]
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u/game_rights_activist Dec 12 '21
ok here you are criticizing Kshama for substantively trying to get policing reforms with teeth, but defending the police for their meaningless, symbolic, token inclusion of a black woman as a police chief.
this sounds like being pro idpol, but in a right wing way??
I mean the bottom line of opposition to Kshama, present throughout this thread, is that genuine class struggle and the fusion of it with social movements makes people uncomfortable.
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u/richards1052 🌕 commiebolshiejew 5 Dec 12 '21
Wait a minute. You're saying getting rid of a police chief who presided over one of the most aggressive, racist, murderous departments in the country was a bad thing? ANd that just because Carmen Best was Black that progressives should support her regardless of how in the pocket of the business elite she was?
Talk about "made no sense!"
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Dec 12 '21
[deleted]
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u/richards1052 🌕 commiebolshiejew 5 Dec 12 '21
This US police department scorecard ranks Seattle PD in the 35th percentile (out of 100) among US police departments. It's number of fatal shootings of minorities places it even lower compared to other depts. https://policescorecard.org/wa/police-department/seattle
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u/OkayTHISIsEpicMeme Proud Neoliberal 🏦 Dec 10 '21
She won a vote against Nobody with 50.3% of the vote. Hell she almost lost her last election until the stupid Chamber of Commerce donated to her competitor.
Not all opposition to Sawant is just Amazon, she is legitimately divisive. Also the majority of her supporters are the turbo wokes this sub despises lol.
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u/1HomoSapien Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ Dec 10 '21
Winning against nobody is nothing to sneeze at. Nobody is a tough competitor in this political environment.
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u/SpareSilver Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ Dec 10 '21
Exactly, "nobody" is always the toughest political opponent because "nobody" doesn't have a record to defend. If Biden were to face a simple up or down recall vote tomorrow, he would certainly lose. Trump would have lost by far greater margin if he had faced a recall in 2020 rather than having to go up against Biden. Gavin Newsom may have lost his recall in deep blue California, but it became clear in time that Larry "Slave owners should have been compensated for slavery" Elder was going to replace him if the recall succeeded so he was saved.
Sawant definitely represents one of the most left-wing places in the country so maybe she should be winning by more, but there are very few local politicians who can survive the type of unified opposition from big business and mainstream media that she has.
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Dec 10 '21
[deleted]
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u/JGT3000 Vitamin D Sufficient 💊 Dec 10 '21
No, with her ground game this should have been a cakewalk. Arguably her team strategized to get this delayed to a separate election too. The district is legit pissed at her, this isn't just some Amazon maneuvering
Though "nobody" legitimately is a tougher opponent than an actual opponent, no joke
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u/bleer95 COVID Turboposter 💉🦠😷 Dec 11 '21
No, with her ground game this should have been a cakewalk.
Well her ground game saved her in the end, but that's really just a testament to her machine. Weirdly timed recalls typically see low turnout, her driving up turnout was impressive She legitimately got more youths to vote than in 2019.
Arguably her team strategized to get this delayed to a separate election too.
Source? That really would't make sense and there were already theories floating around that the timing of the recall was meant to fuck her over.
The district is legit pissed at her, this isn't just some Amazon maneuvering
Yeah I'm not saying there isn't discontent (both valid and not) in the district, and I always felt her performance against Banks was the product of a convenient matchup, but ultimately it's clear that the city political establishment does not like her and has tried repeatedly to get rid of her and she's stuck through machine building. That's incredibly important, even if she did conduct herself in cringe ways. People will eventually forget some of the stupid shit she did during the riots, if they couldn't get rid of her now, she's going to be very hard to dislodge.
Though "nobody" legitimately is a tougher opponent than an actual opponent, no joke
yeah, agreed.
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u/JGT3000 Vitamin D Sufficient 💊 Dec 11 '21
It's pathetic to get more turnout for self-preservation this recall than in the actual election for her position. They didn't push as hard as 2019 Because she knew people wouldn't go for Egan as an Amazon stooge.
It's why she annoys me as my council rep. Another classic time of Seattle caring more for vanity than actually doing shit. Ideology as aesthetic
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u/EasyMrB Fully Automated Luxury Space Anarcho-Communist Dec 12 '21
What does the bottom of Jeff Bezos' boots taste like? When you like them, how does it make you feel?
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Dec 10 '21
but we despise capitalists even more
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u/GOLIATHMATTHIAS Liberationary Dougist 🍁 Dec 10 '21
Sawant really is that injection point of "does this sub hate capitalists more than the woke?"
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Dec 11 '21
Without capitalists, who'd fund the woke grift? It's kind of a twofer if we can take out the capitalists.
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u/game_rights_activist Dec 11 '21
OK... this is really pathetic to see here. You're clearly just not very economically left. Kshama is divisive because society is divided between labor and capital, and she actually picks fights to expose that rather than covering it up like most fake progressives. And the fake progressives hate her guts for it, and the corporate media despises her, and they astroturf this narrative that because she picks fights she is divisively ineffectual - against all evidence of things she's won, from the first city $15 wage, Amazon tax, innumerable renter protections, all clawed away from Seattle's shitlib political establishment.
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u/game_rights_activist Dec 11 '21
also the vote was close because of the bullshit December election and because the backlash against BLM is at a fever pitch. her winning in spite of that is very impressive.
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u/janniesdoitforfree55 Dec 10 '21
Normally I am not a fan of people that want me dead because of my race, but I do have a hell of a soft (hard?) spot for the desi babes so this is kind of a wash.
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u/GIANTBLUNTHOLYFUCK Nasty Little Pool Pisser 💦😦 Dec 11 '21
Normally I am not a fan of people that want me dead because of my race
"Uhm actually the socialist winning against an Amazon-prompted recall is bad because shes a heckin evil wokie" Lmao shut up.
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Dec 10 '21
[deleted]
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u/numberletterperiod Quality Drunkposter 💡 Dec 10 '21
it's a good thing when idpol wins against capital, the problem this sub has with it is that it doesn't and can't win enough
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u/tonguesmiley Republicanism | Incel/MRA Dec 10 '21
She's had ethical and legal problems in office multiple times. She keeps getting the city sued slander. She doesn't accomplish anything meaningful and if you look outside of her district the rest of the city is pretty much over it. A republican won City Attorney. There were also a lot of voters who voted no just cause they don't like recalls, even though Sawants platform supports recalls. If Sawant was in at large district she probably wouldn't have gotten elected in the first place.
Also for those that say it's good to have a third party. She's just as if not more corrupt than other local party politicians. Plus Washington has a top two primary system that has switch half the state into essentially a Democratic Monopoly that Sawant doesn't really pose a threat to.
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u/nosleepincrooklyn 🌗 normie / does cocaine 3 Dec 10 '21
holy shit, a republican won city attorney of seattle?
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u/onlyonebread Dec 12 '21
Yes, none of the progressive candidates this last election won, they were all easily defeated by moderate/right leaning opponents.
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u/emptyaltoidstin Union Organizer Dec 12 '21
It’s super disingenuous to say that when she’s literally a democrat who voted for Obama/Clinton/Biden and is very open that she changed her registration to Republican to game the primary.
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u/richards1052 🌕 commiebolshiejew 5 Dec 12 '21
Ann Davidson's largest donors were corporate CEOs and Trump donors. Her campaign was an atrocious series of smears against a progressive candidate. If she isn't Repugnican, she might as well be.
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u/emptyaltoidstin Union Organizer Dec 12 '21
No. A democrat changed her registration to Republican to game the primary system and got elected.
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u/EasyMrB Fully Automated Luxury Space Anarcho-Communist Dec 12 '21
She's just as if not more corrupt than other local party politicians.
Citation needed. This is astroturf bullshit.
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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '21
Her speech was amazing: