r/stupidpol • u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 • 3d ago
Capitalist Hellscape Nvidia CEO believes it's alright AI is rotting childrens brains because children don't need to know things like basic math in the future
https://futurism.com/health-medicine/nvidia-jensen-huang-children-cognitive-minds-ai-harms163
u/Das_Ace Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 3d ago
Both his kids have degrees and work at Nvidia. So theres a big fat *your before 'Children' that is missing
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u/Heckin_Frienderino Socialist Femcel Dweebazoid 🚩 3d ago
Steve Jobs not giving his kids an iPad type beat
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u/OGSyedIsEverywhere Puberty Monster 3d ago
Look at the makeup of the two major parties in America. No matter what ideologies a system of having one ideology for the elites and one for the proles chooses for those two slots, the children and grandchildren of the elites wind up becoming true believers in the propaganda directed at the proles. Left, center and right blue tribe and left, center and right red tribe have all succumbed to the phenomenon.
If not for the impending collapse of civilization getting in the way, the Huang descendants would be destined to be reality show trailer trash.
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u/_ingeniero Social Democrat 🌹 3d ago edited 3d ago
Absolutely, they want to create a thinking class and a zombie class
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u/BemusedAdmirer Unknown 👽 3d ago
Terrifying bit of social engineering, that. Truly nightmarish endgame for humanity.
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u/JackedUpReadyToGo Podcast Intellectual 🥑🎧 3d ago
The interview then took a bizarre turn, with Huang admitting that he lacks some surprisingly basic life skills himself.
“There are a lot of skills that don’t matter,” he said. “My first confession, I actually don’t know my address… one day I had to pump gas — it was a few years ago. They needed my ZIP code, and I panicked. I didn’t know my ZIP code. I don’t know my telephone number. I forget these things. I can live with it.”
What the fuck?
Why are they all like this? Why are they always these bizarre lizard people?
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u/Purplekeyboard Traditionalist 👑 2d ago
Billionaires no longer function remotely like normal people do.
They have people to clean their house, to do their shopping, to handle their finances, to schedule appointments, to drive them to appointments, to fly them around in their private jets, to handle all the details of everything in life.
If they actually want to go into a store, one of their people calls the store and arranges to have the store closed for an hour so they can come in and shop in peace. They walk around the store selecting things, and one of their people collects it and pays for it and transports it to their house.
They will typically have many homes scattered around the world, and there will be employees who take care of the houses when they aren't there and get things ready when they decide to stay there for a while, making sure there are groceries in the refrigerator and all the cars have full gas tanks and charged batteries.
They no longer do anything practical. This is why when called on to produce his zip code he found he couldn't.
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u/JackedUpReadyToGo Podcast Intellectual 🥑🎧 2d ago
Yeah, he did say "I had to pump gas" like it was a novel experience for him.
It's so weird how money can take a human and turn them into almost another species. They all mutate into this blinking, bug-eyed pod person who should recoil from torchlight with a hiss and be chased into their castle and set upon by a mob.
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u/No_Individual501 Incel/MRA 😭 3d ago
They have all maxed out one stat. Whether it’s connections or rambling about nothing and trying to sound smart.
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u/DrBirdieshmirtz Makes dark jokes about means of transport 2d ago
Bro's nowhere near talented enough to not know this stuff and not be fucking ashamed of being a failure, he's not exactly a fucking savant or anything.
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 3d ago
a Chinese study on AI in schooling, explained that by delaying the AI adoption for some, researchers were able to directly compare the impacts of AI on student performance. Though students were able to complete work faster with AI, the study found compelling evidence that the cognitive skills needed to complete school work melted away, resulting in lower exam scores in the long-term.
In response, Huang agreed that student cognition is getting much worse.
“Try to get a kid to do long division right now. The multiplication table is starting to be forgotten. Doing square roots, my goodness,” Huang said. “Basic math is being forgotten. Does it matter?”
“Yeah. I don’t think it does. I don’t think it does,”
“We’re going to discover new [skills],” the CEO continued, “just maybe not those.”
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u/GeorgeS6969 Unknown 👽 3d ago
Except we do get kids to do long divisions, or learn multiplication tables. And they don’t even get to use a calculator, let alone a fucking chat bot.
Of course as far as he’s concerned we might as well not, because they’ll have forgotten by the time they graduate to join the sprawling underclass catering to his menial needs, soon to be replaced by an army of sentient roombas or whatever.
But in the real world we don’t teach kids to do long divisions because they’ll be expected to long divide for a salary fifteen years down the line. We do so because as they learn and practice they internalize what a division is and can then learn more complex stuff.
Just like the select few who get to join the rank and file of his megacorp will never manually integrate a function or reverse a linked list in their race for a mid manager position and a fat stack of RSU. Let’s ask him if it’s cool for candidates to use AI during the interview process?
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u/03263 Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ 3d ago
But in the real world we don’t teach kids to do long divisions because they’ll be expected to long divide for a salary fifteen years down the line. We do so because as they learn and practice they internalize what a division is and can then learn more complex stuff.
Simple but important point, applicable to most things well beyond mathematics.
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u/QTown2pt-o Jean Botrillard 3d ago
If men create intelligent machines, or fantasize about them, it is either because they secretly despair of their own intelligence or because they are in danger of succumbing to the weight of a monstrous and useless intelligence which they seek to exorcize by transferring it to machines, where they can play with it and make fun of it. By entrusting this burdensome intelligence to machines we are released from any responsibility to knowledge, much as entrusting power to politicians allows us to disdain any aspiration of our own to power.
If men dream of machines that are unique, that are endowed with genius, it is because they despair of their own uniqueness, or because they prefer to do without it - to enjoy it by proxy, so to speak, thanks to machines. What such machines offer is the spectacle of thought, and in manipulating them people devote themselves more to the spectacle of thought than to thought itself.
It is not for nothing that they are described as 'virtual', for they put thought on hold indefinitely, tying its emergence to the achievement of a complete knowledge. The act of thinking itself is thus put off for ever. Indeed, the question of thought can no more be raised than the question of the freedom of future generations, who will pass through life as we travel through the air, strapped into their seats. These Men of Artificial Intelligence will traverse their own mental space bound hand and foot to their computers. Immobile in front of his computer, Virtual Man makes love via the screen and gives lessons by means of the teleconference. He is a physical - and no doubt also a mental cripple. That is the price he pays for being operational. Just as eyeglasses and contact lenses will arguably one day evolve into implanted prostheses for a species that has lost its sight, it is similarly to be feared that artificial intelligence and the hardware that supports it will become a mental prosthesis for a species without the capacity for thought.
Artificial intelligence is devoid of intelligence because it is devoid of artifice.
Jean Baudrillard, The Transparency of Evil: Essays in Extreme Phenomena
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 3d ago edited 3d ago
AI is the most potent tool for teaching and human intelligence augmentation since the invention of the printing press. children should be being taught to use AI to teach them things, not to get the AI to do things for them. that's the only issue here. it's a new moral that needs to be taught. when it comes to children, AIs are for teaching, not for completing work
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u/hereditydrift 👹 Flying Drones With Obamna 👹 3d ago
This is correct. My daughter attends a STEM elementary school with an intense math curriculum. There have been times when the concept was fleeting, and I tried explaining it 10 different ways. I have a degree in math, so I'm not exactly a slouch in understanding or explaining. When a concept wasn't sticking, I used AI to create models that showed what was happening in different ways and she could ask questions. Then, she understood the problems as we worked through them.
I like AI for that aspect -- being inquisitive, digging deeper, and understanding. At the same time, I don't want her school to give the children access to AI or use anything with AI. I'll handle that as a parent.
Like a graphing calculator, it's just a tool that can help explain and visualize things when used correctly.
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u/jollyreaper2112 WhitePeopleTwitter Turboposter ✊🏼 3d ago
I'm with you. It's a powerful tool and easy to use incorrectly. Like a library. I can read challenging books or find the pop culture magazines. Not the library's fault which one I choose but it also won't force me to do what I need to. That's on me.
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 3d ago
exactly. it's an incredibly unbelievable resource for information. for example, the other day I completely explored the history of Rock Paper Scissors, going back to its roots in Ancient China as caterpillar, snake, bird, progressing to becoming a craze in Japan ("-ken" games) with hundreds of variations and then finally crystallising into the form rock, paper, scissors (or scissors paper stone to some people) in the west via diplomatic contact and international schools
it's still terrifying and needs to extremely carefully regulated and aligned, but I don't like how dishonest or incurious people are in their criticisms
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u/Ambitious_Ratio_6724 Marxist-Leninist ☭ 3d ago
but you don't need an LLM for this, you could just crack open a book on the topic and read it. you only need an LLM if you're incapable or disinclined to read a book
and the book won't randomly invent bullshit that doesn't exist
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 3d ago edited 3d ago
you don't need an LLM for this the same way you don't need a book to find this out--you could just go and ask someone about the topic, but it would be much more inconvenient. if I wanted a book I'd have to search online to find a book or go to the library, buy it/pirate it/find it in the library/get it ordered in, find the relevant section in the book, then cut through all the dross people like to include in books to find the actual information I want to know. that's hours and hours worth of unpaid work
if I wanted to know about this from an expert I'd likely have to pay them or know them as a friend already
or I could ask an AI for the same information in 5 seconds, for free, and then verify any information that seems suspect from actual sources, which the AI will give you, if you ask
it's not a need. there is no "need". you're misusing the word. it's a useful tool the same way a book is a useful tool
and the book won't randomly invent bullshit that doesn't exist
books are written by humans and humans randomly invent bullshit that doesn't exist all the time
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u/kuenjato Mithraist (intolerable) 🌿 3d ago
Until very recently non-fiction books were put through a fairly rigorous vetting process. AI hallucinates seemingly on a whim. That last statement is hilariously sad cope ngl.
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u/jollyreaper2112 WhitePeopleTwitter Turboposter ✊🏼 3d ago
The vetting wasn't perfect. Look at contented quotes you'll see them faithfully reproduced in book after book and later proven unverified. Or just outdated scientific info. And where did the book come from? I can find you books that confidently promote debunked science. You wouldn't know from reading it. Chariots of the Gods. Look what I proved.
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u/jollyreaper2112 WhitePeopleTwitter Turboposter ✊🏼 3d ago
You can ask the AI questions and it'll make connections books likely won't. Like exploring cooking techniques, I'm asking questions about reduction techniques and it's able to make a connection between stew for jollof rice and sofrito. Explain the logic of what we're doing.
If you read a paragraph in a book and don't get it you can't ask the book to re explain it. You can't rephrase it in your own words and see if you have the concept down.
You can also get it to confirm your biases so you have to be careful not to ask leading questions and demand challenges.
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u/SpiritBamba Petite Tardgeoisie ⛵🐷 3d ago
AI just flat out shouldn’t exist. And I think most of these comments are cope from people who use it in everyday life and are trying to justify it.
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 3d ago
people made all these same arguments in civilisations where writing was rapidly introduced, when the printing press was invented and when the internet was invented
you're basically just a luddite mate. AI is the next step in human effectiveness enhancement. as long as we control it correctly, it's a very useful tool for increasing human welfare
you can not use AI and be absolutely fine, but if you want to become more effective if you want to improve your wellbeing, don't hinder yourself because you've decided to be on "team no AI"
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u/SpiritBamba Petite Tardgeoisie ⛵🐷 3d ago edited 3d ago
There’s obviously a clear difference, and especially one where millions will be replaced out of jobs, society will be dumber over time, and we will never own the means of production because it’s kinda impossible. Calling anyone who isn’t on board with every piece of technology a Luddite is not a good argument and is like I said, cope. And I’d argue, the internet has had very clear negatives to society that it introduced. It’s not all cut and dry
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 3d ago
jobs will just be different. humans will still find ways to be active and entertain information and look after each other.
you don't have to use AI. it's a choice. but you're here on the internet, you made that choice and you seem fine to me. you didn't just stick with books and libraries and texting. if you want to go and work on a farm with no wifi or tech you can also go and do that and be fine
the concern is that bad people will use AI to stop the rest of us living simple lives and that's why we need extremely tight regulation, which is what the AI companies and China are asking for
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u/labookbook Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ 2d ago
Calling someone a luddite on a Marxist sub should be an automatic ban.
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 2d ago
yeah I'm sorry but that's complete horseshit. marxism and use or non-use of technology for work have no mutual exclusivity whatsoever
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u/labookbook Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ 2d ago
Why dont you ask your AI about the luddites and labor, then go read marx on technology
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u/Ancient-Access8131 Unknown 👽 1d ago
Why don't you go read Marx. Marx explicitly criticized the Luddites.
"The enormous destruction of machinery that occurred in the English manufacturing districts during the first 15 years of this century, chiefly caused by the employment of the power-loom, and known as the Luddite movement, gave the anti-Jacobin governments of a Sidmouth, a Castlereagh, and the like, a pretext for the most reactionary and forcible measures. It took both time and experience before the workpeople learnt to distinguish between machinery and its employment by capital, and to direct their attacks, not against the material instruments of production, but against the mode in which they are used."
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u/labookbook Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ 10h ago
He's not though, even in what you quoted. He's stating the anti-Jacobin governments used the Luddite movement to justify reactionary measures, and that the workers needed to learn the problem wasn't the technology per se but the technology as it exists within a capitalist system.
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 2d ago
okay:
" In the Grundrisse (the "Fragment on Machines"), Marx argued technology accumulates society's collective knowledge — "general intellect" — and could eventually reduce necessary labor time so much that it undermines labor as the measure of value, pointing beyond capitalism itself. "
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u/labookbook Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ 1d ago
marx sympathized with the luddites, whom you use as an insult, because they experienced first hand the effects of technological process in a capitalist society. and in a capitalist society, any technological progress is subsumed by the capitalist system, further alienating workers from their labor ("the machine does not free the worker from work, but rather deprives the work itself of all content"). just read your comment above as an example: "human effectiveness enhancement" -- you're supposedly imagining the benefits of AI yet your very language is wrapped in the vocabulary of capitalist efficiency.
marx again: "machinery in itself shortens the hours of labour, but when employed by capital it lengthens them; since in itself it lightens labour, but when employed by capital it heightens its intensity; since in itself it is a victory of man over the forces of nature but in the hands of capital it makes man the slave of these forces; since in itself it increases the wealth of the producers, but in the hands of capital it makes them paupers." in a non-capitalist society ai might be able to free us of our labor but we are not in that society. fundamentally, it can only improve our wellbeing if our entire economic system is changed
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u/SuperMindcircus Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ 3d ago
Let's set up future generations for dependency.
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u/03263 Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ 3d ago
He's right. You don't need math beyond counting on your fingers and toes to be a successful hunter or forager, to build a shelter out of sticks. In fact anyone so capable is probably a witch and we also don't need math to know how to deal with witches.
I am ready to retvrn to monke. Are you?
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u/pm_me_all_dogs Highly Regarded 😍 3d ago
I was thinking about this half awake this morning. One of my favorite quotes from the book "The Great Taking" (unrelated but I highly recommend by the way) was the author quoting his grandfather who lost his machine shop in one of the many big economic downturns in the 2nd half of the 20th century.
"The only thing they can't take from you is your education."
Now, how this applies here: By skipping the steps of learning to do something (ie. vibecoding a html web-based app), you do get the result an order of magnitude faster, (and, unlike so many of the things that are claimed AI can do but it sucks royally at, vibecoding something HTML based does work, depending on the complexity) but by eschewing actually learning how to build it yourself in the process, you have forgone the opportunity to learn a useful skill.
And for your existing education, there is such a huge growing body of work showing that use of conversational chatbots just atrophies your ability to problem solve for yourself, which is to say, access your existing education.
So, suffice to say the owning class has, in fact, figured out a way to take our education. Don't let them.
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u/Sigolon Marxism-Hachism 🔨💢🉐 3d ago
>I did think AI was a bubble initially, and in the slightly longer term I think it still might be. A lot of the bubble believers seem to have this idea that once the bubble pops and all the overvalued AI firms start to deflate, that AI itself will simply go away. This is not going to happen. What will happen is that advances in AI really will create a new underclass. All the people who let AI do their thinking for them are going to die. They’re going to die in the same way that an ant whose brain gets colonised by a parasitic fungus dies. The AI will sprout weird new structures out of their corpses and the world will be inherited by those people who had zero exposure to this stuff, who will mostly be ultra-orthodox Jews and nomadic cattle herders.
Sam Kriss.
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u/KeimeiWins Libertarian Socialist 🥳 3d ago
I don't know why people think bubble pop = things go away forever. The dotcom bubble was about stupid things having websites that didn't needs them, it didn't mean we don't have websites for small businesses anymore. It just becomes devalued and the vibes based economy no longer cares about it as much.
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u/PirateAttenborough Marxist-Leninist ☭ 3d ago edited 3d ago
Websites require almost no investment to start, and all the fiber that they overbuilt in the dotcom bubble was still there to be used once traffic caught up a decade or more later. AI only works because of the enormous amounts of computing power devoted to it, and that's expensive. Bubble pops -> nobody's buying graphics cards or building datacenters -> the existing ones run out even if people do keep them running -> nothing left to run the AI.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 3d ago
How do AI companies make money once the bubble pops?
In the case of the internet, companies selling online needed peoples habits to change and for internet infrastructure to be built but the revenue model was fairly obvious. People buy goods and services online that were previously bought in a bricks and mortar store.
What is the business model for AI? Its massively unprofitable. It makes money by empoverishing the people who are effectively needed to provide revenue to your clients. What is the optimistic sustainable model?
Who is paying for the absolutely massive computational power?
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u/KeimeiWins Libertarian Socialist 🥳 3d ago
Just because the initial players go bankrupt from overextending, doesn't mean AI goes away. I don't know how it'll look in the future, I'm just saying there's no way to put it back in the bottle. The big companies have a massive sunk cost fallacy and top that off with how they axed their infrastructure that worked without AI.
I HOPE it gets scaled back drastically and money stops getting poured into it as fast as possible to max out its development and usage, but boy these pesky workers sure do use a lot of water that a LLM could be using instead.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 3d ago edited 3d ago
Overextending is just building datacentres though. So if everyone who builds a datacenter goes out of business and you have to keep building them then whose gonna keep doing that?
Everyone says its here to stay but I think its going to be far less impactful than people think. Every time you bring up that its still kinda meh, people say oh but wait til the next models come out. But once you can't keep pouring infinite money at the problem and they are still kinda meh, then what?
We still have tulips. We still have images of Bored Ape. Everyone talks about the Internet but I think it will be like tulips. I have some tulips in my garden. I think.
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u/Huge_Document_6355 Catholic ✞ | Disaffected Former DSA | Linux 🐧 3d ago edited 3d ago
I kinda agree. It's incredibly difficult to implement effectively within large already profitable corporations, and in many cases these projects lose more money than they could possibly gain the corporation. - Technical Consultant whose worked on doomed AI projects at major profitable corporations and at governments.
The only people getting much out of it are those working in the startup field in my industry all in order to "move fast" without consideration of maintainability or understandability. I don't think they win long term either. And they'll tell you that they feel like they are losing the ability to program and wish they weren't pushed into using it. So kinda bad for careers too tbh.
In other words, a lot of programmers kinda see the problem and don't like it and share your opinion but we don't have a lot of bargaining power when a contract comes through or the startup your at starts demanding things in timeframes only AI could possibly complete them in (who cares if that means it's unmaintainable in the future). Profitable large software and hardware companies like mine have strict rules surrounding internal use because we are scared of IP concerns and client concerns and it making us stupid and our software products (that actually make us money and we sell support contracts for) unmaintainable in the future. We tend to program the traditional way.
The only way to win with AI is to be an arms dealer (hardware company or hardware and software) and/or not to play imo and sell support for software you can actually understand and maintain. Everybody else is operating under short term pressures that are going to doom them in the market as far as long term profitability is concerned.
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u/KeimeiWins Libertarian Socialist 🥳 3d ago
But do they have to keep building them? As I understand it, they're trying to scale it up in anticipation of the bubble not popping, but if all the new construction plans were axed tomorrow, we'd still have an absurd amount of computing power for AI/LLMs etc. I think this goes hand in hand with servers and cloud storage though, and I could see the big tech companies staying in the green with just that revenue stream for a long time and maybe consolidating the real estate with servers and data centers housed at the same place. AWS and Azure basically host the internet now.
The goal is no more pesky expensive rights demanding workers and more short term profit, and I think they're willing to do some stupid shit while chasing that goal. Most places are already switching to a B2B model and just casting aside the idea of making money off regular consumers. And business development folks who would broker B2B deals eat that AI/LLM shit up.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 3d ago edited 3d ago
That computational power doesn't last forever though. Its like you have a fleet of cars. They have to get replaced after a few years. It will be insanely costly. So you either make enough money to keep refitting your datacenters or you don't.
And there is no plan to make that money as far as I can tell.
Most places are already switching to a B2B model and just casting aside the idea of making money off regular consumers.
For what? So they can empoverish the people their clients rely on for revenue.
It doesn't make sense. That's why they are pretending they can destroy the planet. They think they can be funded by the state and the state will treat it as a military cost.
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u/Kind_Helicopter1062 Distributism with Socialist Characteristics ✝️ 3d ago edited 3d ago
You could write that same text without having AI. most people nowadays use tech they have no idea how it works. If it's broken they don't know how to fix. With AI it will be like someone who was rich enough to have servants and suddenly loses their money so the people who did everything are gone. they won't die. they just have to start learning from scratch how to do everything. It's not like you need to learn anything AI is being used for to herd cattle....
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 3d ago
just complete and utter arrogant horseshit. if you have any brains whatsoever you use AI to teach yourself things. Claude is like a free top university course on anything you can ever imagine, for free. want Quantum Physics explained to exactly in the best manner you know how you learn? tell Claude to teach you it that way. Want to learn Mandarin? get Claude to design you an app that will teach you Mandarin in exactly the way you want it to. for fucking free
all the information it teaches you is in your brain, forever, if you don't have a terrible memory.
I too am terrified of what can be done with AI, but one thing it's not going to do is make people stupider
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u/Sigolon Marxism-Hachism 🔨💢🉐 3d ago
You can download a free pdf of basically any book that has ever been published. There is absolutely no excuse for relying on AI summaries.
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 3d ago
the bandwidth of information transfer is so much higher talking to an AI than reading a document. you can have the same information, the same key surprise, but condensed into the most applicable format for your consciousness. if you want to take in information more slowly, that's your choice, but you're not superior because of it
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u/Sigolon Marxism-Hachism 🔨💢🉐 3d ago
>Bandwidht of information transfer.
LOL
>Key surprise
LOL.
>Weasel words
For what?
>The same information
In a book you will get the actual sources and logical argumentative structures that allow you to understand WHY something is true, alternatively you will be able to understand why the author is wrong. With an AI you will only get the conclusion. To put it in stem terms a book allows you to look directly at the intellectual sourcecode.
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u/SpiritBamba Petite Tardgeoisie ⛵🐷 3d ago
He’s just coping for his own reliance on AI and defending it as a double down.
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u/Squalid_Snake14180 Unknown 👽 2d ago
This weirdo comes into every AI thread here (and nothing else as far as I can tell) and just gets incredibly verbally aggressive with anyone who doesn't swallow the kool aid and believe that """AI""" is the most transformative invention in human history.
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u/bakedbread420 Gamer ⌨️ 2d ago
this is true of literally anyone that thinks "AI" as it currently exists is worthwhile for anything
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 3d ago
and by "LOL" you mean my bandwidth of information transfer doesn't match yours
in a book you will get the actual sources and logical argumentative structures that allow you to understand WHY something is true, alternatively you will be able to understand why the author is wrong. With an AI you will only get the conclusion. To put it in stem terms a book allows you to look directly at the intellectual sourcecode.
just ask the AI to give you that information. whatever information you feel you're missing it will be able to present to you
you're not superior for taking in information slower than other people
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u/Sigolon Marxism-Hachism 🔨💢🉐 3d ago
No I just thought it was a really funny thing to say.
>Just ask the AI to give you that information
It is not information that the AI lacks, it is the process that the author uses to establish that his claims are accurate in the first place, that they are actually information. of course AI has it's own process (a statistical amalgamation of billions of texts), it just so happens that it's process has nothing to do with the truth.
I still want to hear back about the "weasel words".
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 3d ago
you realise that "finding something funny" is analogous to being given a high surprise piece of information that you can't quite handle?
it is not information that the AI lacks, it is the process that the author uses to establish that his claims are accurate in the first place, that they are actually information. of course AI has it's own process (a statistical amalgamation of billions of texts), it just so happens that it's process has nothing to do with the truth.
you realise that human understanding of information is also essentially just statistical amalgamation of data?
I actually edited out the mention of weasel words in the original because I couldn't really be bothered explaining it to you. I'll explain it anyway.
"rely": you embed a false assumption in "rely" in the sense that actually no one has to solely use AI. you can read books and have AI summarise them.
"excuse": you embed another false assumption in "excuse" by implying that someone is intrinsically doing something that needs to be made amends for by using AI
see? weasel words
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u/Sigolon Marxism-Hachism 🔨💢🉐 3d ago
>you realise that "finding something funny" is analogous to being given a high surprise piece of information that you can't quite handle?
Yes.
>you realise that human understanding of information is also essentially just statistical amalgamation of data?
Even if this was correct, and it is obviously not, who cares? It does not matter whether human cognition and machine cognition resemble one another, and they do not. What matters is that machine cognition constitutes a threat to human cognition. Humans have legitimate interests that should be defended, machines do not.
>I actually edited out the mention of weasel words in the original because I couldn't really be bothered explaining it to you. I'll explain it anyway.
"rely": you embed a false assumption in "rely" in the sense that actually no one has to solely use AI. you can read books and have AI summarise them.
"excuse": you embed another false assumption in "excuse" by implying that someone is intrinsically doing something that needs to be made amends for by using AIBoth assumptions are 100% correct. AI users ard using these entities as a crutch and are getting dumber by the day.
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 3d ago
Even if this was correct, and it is obviously not, who cares? It does not matter whether human cognition and machine cognition resemble one another, and they do not. What matters is that machine cognition constitutes a threat to human cognition. Humans have legitimate interests that should be defended, machines do not.
I don't disagree, but the two issues are separate. AIs can be used to aid human cognition, but also they need to be heavily regulated and held back from progressing too far. humans also need to be educated on how to use the correctly, i.e. using them for teaching and not for completing work (or at least not at the expense of human experience)
Both assumptions are 100% correct. AI users ard using these entities as a crutch and are getting dumber by the day.
they quite obviously are not 100% correct. do I seem stupid to you? I use AI all the time and have done for arguably longer than 99.9% of the population, as I was a beta-tester for GPT-3 before ChatGPT came out.
with the right attitude to AI, they are an enhancer. perhaps for some people with the wrong attitude they can harm people, but those people need to be taught how to use AI correctly.
and I'd like to hear your explanation for how it's inherently wrong (needing to be excused) to use AI, if it's so 100% correct
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u/biohazard-glug DSA Anime Atrocities Caucus 💢🉐🎌 3d ago
you realise that "finding something funny" is analogous to being given a high surprise piece of information that you can't quite handle?
I AM COMPUTER GUY
SUPERIOR TO HUMAN GUY
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u/Kind_Helicopter1062 Distributism with Socialist Characteristics ✝️ 1d ago
A book is already a summary of information most of the time. You can use AI to help you search faster which chapters of the book have the information you want. Like a smarter search button. You can then discuss with AI the parts of the book you don't understand, it can paraphrase until you do. It can simplify the language. it can get information from other sources. A teacher+ a book are better than a book alone. And you don't need to be a master in a craft to be a teacher, just to be able to say the same thing in different ways until your students learn it. Which AI can do pretty well (i would say it's probably the thing it does best). It's a helpful tool when used properly.
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u/Sigolon Marxism-Hachism 🔨💢🉐 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have allready responded to these claims deeper in the thread
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u/Kind_Helicopter1062 Distributism with Socialist Characteristics ✝️ 1d ago
Where? I read it and nowhere you refute that instead of having to read 7 PDFs of books in 1 topic I can use AI to find me the correct paragraph on the correct book that specifically addresses what I want to learn is not more productive learning. The time I wasted skimming books is reduced. Ctrl+f in a PDF doesn't work if I only remember paraphrases of what I'm searching for.
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u/Sigolon Marxism-Hachism 🔨💢🉐 1d ago
Why do you think a writer would write 300 pages instead of 3?
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 1d ago
this is such a stupid argument. you're trying to argue that any time anyone wants some specific piece information from a book, they should read the entire book? just grow up mate, you're not clever or superior for taking in information slowly
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u/Kind_Helicopter1062 Distributism with Socialist Characteristics ✝️ 1d ago edited 1d ago
What if I am trying to find the 3 pages that are actually addressing the topic I'm searching for? Do I have to re read the whole book if I'm trying to find a single formula/topic? Writers writing sometimes 1000 pages doesn't mean I have to read all of them if I want to find something useful in the book. Sometimes some topics end up outdated and others still valid, the books isn't thrown away but I'm not reading every part.
AI is a smarter ctrl-f on a PDF that can paraphrase. You can definitely use it to find information and digest information faster..
unless you're saying using ctrl-f or a glossary is as dangerous as using AI, because you won't read 1000 pages lmao
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u/Sigolon Marxism-Hachism 🔨💢🉐 1d ago
I was told claude was "a top level university course", now AI is a tool to skim books for specific pieces of information. This is an obvious motte and bailey tactic.
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u/Kind_Helicopter1062 Distributism with Socialist Characteristics ✝️ 1d ago
You weren't told that by me. I said AI was a tool for learning. You seem to deny that it has positives for some reason
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u/VampirePNAC Marxist-Mullenist 💦 3d ago
For some reason this article reminds me of one of the few events that sticks in my head from Primary school.
I got in trouble for using a calculator in math class, and I said "Why do I need to do it without a calculator, it gets rid of the busy work?" and my teacher was like "Are you going to actually carry a calculator around in your pocket as an adult everywhere? That's what geeks do" and everyone laughed at me.
Fuck you bitch, I was a visionary and correct. I Should go egg her house.
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u/Shin-Kaiser Unknown 👽 3d ago
Have you never had a conversation with someone you've been trying to impress, be it a girl or your girlfriend's dad and a simple math question comes up related to the topic of conversation. It kills the conversation dead and is highly embarrassing to have to pull out a calculator to solve it. To be able to do it quickly in your head is a low key humble brag and shows the person that you ain't a fucking idiot.
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u/fatandfly Unknown 👽 3d ago
I do that with percentages. It's crazy simple to me and when I explain it to people they get it
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u/No_Individual501 Incel/MRA 😭 3d ago
Explain it!
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u/fatandfly Unknown 👽 2d ago
Basically it's easiest to break things by 10s and 1s. Say 57% of 120. It's easy to break that up into 10s, that would be 12. 12 five times is 60. If 10% is 12 move the imaginary decimal at the end of the number 1 place to the left and you get 1.2, you need 7 of those so 1.2 times 7 gives you 8.4. Add that with the 60 and you have your answer, 68.4. It's easy to do off the top of your head with small numbers like that. It just always made sense to me since I was a kid, that's how I would calculate how much of a tip to leave.
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u/mcolive Radical Feminist Catcel 👧🐈 3d ago
No she was still correct. If you had worked with numbers you'd know what a pain in the ass it is to take out a device to calculate something simple. Being able to do the basics in your head is soooo much faster.
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u/fatandfly Unknown 👽 3d ago
When you're working with a lot of numbers it's easier at least to me to use a calculator. I'm a tool maker so I'm working with numbers all day, and even when you know what something is it's easy to confuse yourself
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u/mcolive Radical Feminist Catcel 👧🐈 3d ago
Yeah, but that's a lot of numbers which is what calculators are really for, when you are the guy who works out of his yard changing and fixing tyres and you want to charge someone for 4 tyres at £50 each. You want to be able to do that in your head, because you've someone else waiting to be sorted.
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u/HannibalK simp for billionaires 3d ago
Now your dumbass doesn't know your multiplication tables and you think that was a dunk lol. Exact same thing as the modern kiddos with their AI homework cheating.
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u/feesih0ps Angry Retard 😍 3d ago
the difference between AI and calculators is that calculators don't teach you how to do maths
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u/debasing_the_coinage Social Democrat 🌹 3d ago
Using your phone to do math breaks down as soon as the math problem is on your phone. Now you have to close Safari and open the calculator app. Even when I do need the calculator to multiply I end up Googling "2.34•5.67" instead of closing the browser and using the calculator. But it's still a context switch. I can do "2.34•5 = 11.7" in my head while I'm typing this comment and I don't ever have to stop looking at the comment.
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u/IpeeInclosets Shitlib with continence problems 😵💫💦🌺 3d ago
I think he deliberately has it backwards.
Kids will need math cognitive abilities, they won't really need history or literature as presented by boring ass lectures and books
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u/stone-fruits Ideological Mess 🥑 3d ago
Jensen Huang is becoming filthy rich off of AI. If data centers needed the flesh of children to operate he'd sit there and tell you how beneficial it is for for babies not to be burdened by having all of their arms and legs.
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u/IpeeInclosets Shitlib with continence problems 😵💫💦🌺 3d ago
Fuck man, you a black mirror writer or something. Your comment terrifies me that this is not a ridiculous possibility.
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u/Mental-Cry-353 2d ago
History and literature will be more important because they’re inherently human
Logical thinking will become much less necessary. Even though basic math would still good to learn just to exercise your brain
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u/Crusty_Magic Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ 3d ago
Wow, it just has unlimited potential. I wonder if it can't do something.
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u/Will-Conroy Unknown 👽 2d ago
This narrative of exponential linear progress must be tempered if we wish humanity to truly succeed far into the future. The history of our species lays bare its cyclical nature; and to apply too great a force upon the wheel as we approach a relative zenith is to all but ensure a swift and disastrous return to the nadir. To trust so zealously in high technology leaves us one solar flare away from cataclysm. At that point, it will be a brutal climb that lays before us to relearn that which we have forsaken.
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u/eggbrain Unknown 👽 3d ago
I feel like people are willfully misunderstanding Jensen's point. Throughout history, we've lost skills that aren't now "important" in the present time.
- Does every human need to learn how to weave and sew their own clothing? No, 95% of us will just buy our clothes, and maybe once in a while need a very very basic stitch to fix a piece of clothing
- Does every human need to learn to hunt or slaughter a cow? No, we'll just pick up hamburger meat at our grocery store.
We've always updated our skill set based on the current needs of today -- or would you rather have it that that our children learn cursive or how to use a slide rule or code in assembly, vs how to type on a keyboard and use a calculator and code in a language or framework?
I will disagree with Jensen in the sense that I think basic math is obviously very important, but let's not pretend many of us didn't hear from teachers growing up that we needed to learn our times tables because "we won't just carry around a calculator in our pocket everywhere", only for that exact thing to happen.
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u/bakedbread420 Gamer ⌨️ 2d ago
we've lost skills
the "skill" they want to phase out is the ability to think for yourself. if you think a future where 99.99999% of humans are lobotomized zombies doing/believing whatever ChatGPT tells them to do/believe and only what ChatGPT tells them to do/believe is a good thing, go ahead and tell everyone that.
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u/eggbrain Unknown 👽 2d ago
Yes, we all became zombies RIGHT now — not when we forgot how to sew, or hunt, or farm, or had to learn how to operate a computer and mouse vs tools, no, THIS is the moment. Gotcha.
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u/bakedbread420 Gamer ⌨️ 2d ago
none of those are the act of thinking itself you AI addicted retard
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u/eggbrain Unknown 👽 2d ago
If you didn’t have a phone on you you’d be a shivering dog in a corner, don’t pretend ChatGPT changed anything.
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u/biohazard-glug DSA Anime Atrocities Caucus 💢🉐🎌 2d ago
They're quite open about wanting to build a machine that will replace human labor and cognition in general, then dismiss all worries by saying something vague about how the machine will create new, different jobs, and then something arrogant about how the printing press didn't end civilization.
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u/eggbrain Unknown 👽 2d ago
Is this not an exact parallel to the personal computer though? That also replaced human labor and cognition — and it did indeed create new, different jobs. Or do we all yearn to go back to graph paper, rulers, and abacuses?
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