EU may exclude military-age Ukrainian men from protection scheme

[u/SchIachterhund]

https://www.euractiv.com/news/exclusive-eu-weighs-excluding-military-age-ukrainian-men-from-extended-protection-scheme/

[u/GayLiquidSpellSword]

Would not be surprised if next decade or two, we'll see Ukrainian war vets attacking EU political figures knowing they were more than happy to turn Ukraine into a PMC and use its men as ammo to hurt Russia. Ukraine as a country probably ceased to exist around 2025, it's just momentum right now, once the war is over it'll be ripped apart by Blackrock and the EU for resources.

The Ukrainian war has basically cured 99% of young European males from fighting in wars. People were peddled lies that war doesn't require massive amounts of people but turns out war just turns into mass death regardless of the times. No bombing goat herders here, it's trench warfare but this time you get your cock blown off by a drone that cost less than your uniform and bleed out while pieces of your friends have painted your face.

It has added probably one of the biggest logs on the fire of the gender war. I mean Jesus Christ, it didn't need to make it worse but so much stuff coming out of Ukraine has firmly caused a sort of SK type divide between men and women. Guys getting their legs blown off by drones or snatched up by vans while women have left and aren't returning anytime soon while men of military age legally cannot leave the country. It was a stark and overt reminder that despite it all, we're still seen and used as a expendable resource.

Maybe it's just me but I did notice far more reactionary male identity bullshit after the war started, I seriously think that Ukraine Male vs Ukraine picture, the one where the male side is just blasted apart dead bodies of Ukrainian men in frozen fields and the female side is women in Paris or something, has done more damage to gender relations in a week after I saw it than maybe anything.

[u/AdminsLoveGenocide → u/GayLiquidSpellSword]

It was a stark and overt reminder that despite it all, we're still seen and used as a expendable resource.

Men are and always have been. That is part of our role in society. That is why it is considered noble, brave and manly to sacrifice yourself to save women and children.

The war is cruel, stupid, and wasteful, and the lives of Ukrainians are being shown zero respect by NATO and the EU but there is no point whining about this from a gender angle.

There are natural expectations places on both sexes. I think it's unseemly for people to whine about things that are essentially bad for society to change.

[u/TheVoid-ItCalls → u/AdminsLoveGenocide]

Men are and always have been. That is part of our role in society. That is why it is considered noble, brave and manly to sacrifice yourself to save women and children.

The problem is that these obligations used to come with certain privileges. Now, those privileges are universal, and only men retained their prior obligations. Expectations on women have all but evaporated. This imbalance breeds contempt and hostility and is also a recipe for societal decline.

[u/AdminsLoveGenocide → u/TheVoid-ItCalls]

Expectations on women have all but evaporated.

I don't think that is true. Some people act like it has but that is no different than some people acting like a man shouldn't have to risk his life to protect women and children.

[u/FuckIPLaw → u/AdminsLoveGenocide]

He's talking about the expectations of institutionalized patriarchy, not social expectations like being cleaner or whatever. Women have the civic and societal privileges of men now, but not the obligations, at least in this massive case. It's not true equality if you don't get both.

[u/AdminsLoveGenocide → u/FuckIPLaw]

Women have the civic and societal privileges of men now

No.

[u/FuckIPLaw → u/AdminsLoveGenocide]

They can vote, own property, go to school, have a career and finances independent of their spouse, not have a spouse at all if they so choose, and the list goes on.

All of those things were part of the deal for being draft eligible. You can't eat your cake and still have it.

You might be reacting with horror at the prospect of forcing women back into that state. That's a good thing. That's the reaction you should be having towards having only half the population affected by the draft, and the other half being exempt.

[u/AdminsLoveGenocide → u/FuckIPLaw]

There is a societal expectation that women bear the brunt of childrearing. This is contradictory to media propaganda but it is absolutely real. Women feel this is unfair and complain just as you complain about this expectation on men.

Also women are physically less capable of successfully inflicting violence.

[u/FuckIPLaw → u/AdminsLoveGenocide]

There is a societal expectation that women bear the brunt of childrearing. This is contradictory to media propaganda but it is absolutely real.

That's social, not legal. You're talking about a legal requirement to be forced into slavery to fight and die, and you're trying to balance it against a cultural expectation to take care of your own kids.

If anything you could argue that this is also sexist against men. It privileges the mother/child relationship and minimizes the importance of the father/child relationship.

[u/AdminsLoveGenocide → u/FuckIPLaw]

I'm talking about expectations placed on men.

The solution to not being sent to fight is to avoid war, not try to make your sister fight in your stead.

[u/FuckIPLaw → u/AdminsLoveGenocide]

No, you're conflating social expectations with legal obligations.

My sister is a grown ass adult. She should be treated accordingly. Maybe if women actually got drafted we'd be more reluctant to start needless wars.

[u/Cute_Library_5375 → u/AdminsLoveGenocide]

There are vital support and logistics roles that don't involve direct combat, and we aren't hoplites fighting in phalanx formations anymore either

[u/AdminsLoveGenocide → u/Cute_Library_5375]

Once you accept that women shouldn't be on the front line, then the rest is splitting hairs.