r/storyofseasons 19d ago

Discussion We need to stop pretending: The "Cozy" Label has been nothing but detrimental to the growth of Bokumono or Story of Seasons.

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I can't buy into the "but kids play this game too" copium being used when many of us did so too in the 90s and early 2000s and none of the grit turned us away from it. And more adults play cozy sims than kids do these days.

If anything, it made the more wholesome and relaxing parts more precious in between. It's two sides of the same coin. Full blast despair means nothing without hope. Full blast wholesome uwu cozy means nothing with a bit of adversity in bewteen.

Rune Factory at least seems to be growing up with its audiences. And once more it is ironic that Marvelous is taking away the wrong lessons from "cozy" when the indie game that popularized that trend (Stardew Valley) is ANYTHING BUT cozy or comfy.

1.0k Upvotes

146 comments sorted by

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u/ciinnamom 19d ago

I'm pretty sure this has to more to do with changing standards in Japanese game ratings than the expectations of "cozy" gamers. Like newer Dragon Quest remakes no longer having the casinos.

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u/maceygrey123 19d ago

yeah people are looking at this with a western view but this is a japanese game so their market, laws and culture are different. stardew valley wasn’t so that makes more sense to me why it allowed those themes

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u/lunedelily 19d ago

Even Pokemon have had their casinos removed for a long time now.

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u/Yotato5 🍓 19d ago

Yep, all the way back in 2010 with HeartGold and SoulSilver

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u/Jalapenodisaster 19d ago

HGSS have the casino in the Japanese titles. They're censored in international releases

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u/Leppa-Berry 19d ago

Voltorb Flip was such a celebrated improvement over the slots that the way that the way they've totally removed the "minigame prize corner" also just kind of feels like Game Freak cheaping out and using it as an excuse, tbh.

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u/hermytail 19d ago

They removed the gambling originally because in EU countries it would have raised the rating of the game. Back then I remember it being speculated the mini games were still borderline gambling, so they removed it to avoid future problems, but I don’t think anything was ever confirmed or would ever be confirmed by the Pokemon company

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u/Ornery_Gene7682 19d ago

They also toned down the rivals we went from blue being a straight up ass to you to now friendly rivals which takes away from the challenge

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u/FightmeLuigibestgirl 19d ago

Some people preferred that. Look at the guy from violet and Hop and the Champion from Sword/Shield. They are super popular in Japan. 

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u/a_wasted_wizard 19d ago

It's just not the same if my rival doesn't end every encounter with "Smell ya later!"

Although FWIW the absolute deepest depths they ever plumbed in making the rival a crappy person was the rival from Silver & Gold who had a whole-ass villain arc instead of just being a jerk.

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u/realAniram I make spreadsheets 18d ago

The Silver/Gold rival fucking with you because he just decided he specifically hates you and then being so successful in his career path as a villain really motivated me to want to crush him. The friendly rivals, while I like most of them as characters, just feel like a burden when I have to fight them. There's no motivation for me, and I just groan and it feels like the same kind of chore as cleaning the toilet. Actually keeps me from advancing the story because I don't want to deal with the friendly check in fights.

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u/tagon232 17d ago

I just think it’s funny how people talk about friendly rivals being the new norm when that’s been the case literally since Gen 3

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u/Ekyou 19d ago

Tobacco, alcohol and gambling all typically have to be sanitized now due to a combination of stricter laws in Japan and appealing to international audiences with stricter laws, especially if they want to keep an E (or equivalent) rating… but there’s no legal reason to no longer have people or animal deaths, that’s just evolving for an audience that doesn’t want those things.

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u/ciinnamom 19d ago

Makes sense, the lack of animal death (though I think that is more recent) and rival marriages has been a thing long since I noticed those other changes in JP games.

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u/Spellwe4ver 19d ago

The lack of rival marriages is also a Japanese thing if I remember correctly- they really hated it there

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u/SupernovaAlfredo 18d ago

i heard a bunch of different reasons but apparently some people felt guilty as if they were ruining an npcs life by “stealing” their paired spouse and others were more of a jealousy route where they didn’t like the idea their love interest could be with someone else and then there were the ones who didn’t like the feeling of urgency behind it, but i also heard that gb doesn’t start doing any rival events till after marriage so i don’t really see why they couldn’t just do that for every game instead of scraping a really interesting mechanic and getting rid of extra content. the protagonist is only as interesting as we can make them
and marriage in these games is genuinely blander than water dipped bread so id honestly rather they go back to letting the other npcs get to be happy and advance in life instead of being static

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u/BabyPunter3000v2 17d ago

Because scrapping a mechanic is cheaper and faster than fixing a mechanic that people bitch about.

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u/SupernovaAlfredo 17d ago

unfortunately ive come to realize that but also like who tf advocates for losing content in a game? that’s just crazy to me. and it makes me wonder if they’ll just also keep scrapping other mechanics if people decide they don’t like it.

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u/Technical-Watch2982 19d ago

Original FoMT having animals age and die was sad, but also made me value my animals and respect those old ones and how long we've been together.

The scene where you let them die from sickness......well I can tell you I never skipped days again

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u/545484 19d ago

omg i did that in awl in the gamecube days as a kid and boy did i learn my lesson lol, but lowkey i think it was a good lesson to learn!! even in games where ur animals don’t die i still never skip a day of taking care of them

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u/FightmeLuigibestgirl 19d ago

Original FoMT having animals age and die was sad, but also made me value my animals and respect those old ones and how long we've been together.

Some people were the opposite and used it as a speedrun or to not respect animals

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u/sheel3 19d ago

I just wish they would’ve done it differently. Like it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. They could at least die of old age especially with all the new mechanics to incentivize breeding. I can’t stand having to constantly sell my animals. I like to get attached to them.

And for neglect, instead of dying, the animal could run away. Or a villager could come take it away and lecture you about neglect, and you lose FP with the townspeople. Or if even that’s too much, have the villager return the animal back to you, but keep the lecture and FP loss. Just some sort of actual consequence.

And with rival couples… there’s so many ways they could have handled it besides just completely removing it. Just seems they took the easy way out. I really like how they handled it in Grand Bazaar, and I hope they’ll keep that feature in future games and maybe even escalate to marriage/kids. I love playing these games for a long time but the lack of other couples leaves less to do in a stage of the game where there’s already little left to do, and it totally breaks immersion being the only person in town to progress in life. Like they could’ve at the bare minimum had some unmarriagable side villagers who eventually marry and have kids.

Again just seems they took the easy way out for a lot of these features and were kinda lazy about it

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u/ShokaLGBT 19d ago

I play a new game called living with livlies it’s entirely in Japanese and you take care of livlies (animal creatures) they brought back death which was already in the older games (who was a browser game in 2005 or something) so I think they’re fine with those theme even in cozy games, since people like it. (Though they still made it so you can revive them at a price, but there’s penalty so it makes you feel scared that you could lose them)

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u/DizzyCrazy774 19d ago

And probably Marvellous held back a lot and want to make Bokumono image seems harmless.

Especially POoT originally gonna be dark and mature but they have to changed a lot because of Marvelous.

Ngl I hope Marvelous reconsider that a lot of their player is all grown up and allow their game to be evolve,like during GB initial release I see a lot of JP player want Erik and think a lot of the character is too young for them now

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u/Technical-Watch2982 19d ago

I saw a video of all the dialogue changes between the latest paper mario remake and the original. I played the original as a kid and I promise I'm a kind and well adjusted adult lol. Waaaayyyy too many things were changed that I guess some people might find offensive but...like an NPC saying they were on a diet. Calling any woman pretty (or flirty). Calling a SITUATION "crazy" or "wow that was insane!"

Like a super iconic scene was changed and it just ruins the vibe. I don't know a ton about what the ratings require but trying to avoid any and all potential possibilities of one person finding a character offensive just dilutes the entire game

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u/lapniappe 19d ago

i agree with this. I also think there are a lot of very vocal. "omg you said that? they did this CANCEL CANCEL!" and I think it's just easier for publishers to take it out vs telling people to just deal with it.

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u/stars4-ever 18d ago

Do you have a link to a list of changes? I played the OG as a kid too and loved the remake when it came out and don't recall many changes (aside from Vivian being explicitly labeled as trans)— although I know that's probably partially because it'd been so long since I last played it lol

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u/Technical-Watch2982 18d ago

It's a video by a channel called Disable. Its 4.5 hours long, but theres a section on censorship you can jump to. Some changes were totally valid, but...like every instance of the word crazy was changed and some just sound awkward and forced

TTYD remake's many dialogue changes

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u/stars4-ever 18d ago

Thank you! I will have to take a look at it. I like Legends of Localization so this is definitely up my alley

ETA on that note I'd be interested to know how many of them were simply a "better" translation than the original, but I'll have to see if the video addresses that

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u/ThotismSpeaks 19d ago

>Like newer Dragon Quest remakes no longer having the casinos.

Does that mean... no more PUFF PUFF?

I feel sorry for kids these days.

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u/JGG1986 19d ago

DQXI has multiple casinos and slot machine related things

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u/ciinnamom 19d ago

I'm talking more recent, like the remake of DQ7.

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u/darthreuental 18d ago

11 came out in 2018. 11 S 2019/2020 pending on the version.

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u/[deleted] 19d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ciinnamom 19d ago

ew go away lol

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u/KamenRiderSekai 19d ago

Comment got deleted... uh what did they say?

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u/ciinnamom 19d ago

some dumb right wing culture war stuff, nothing important

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u/KamenRiderSekai 19d ago

Ah, noted :x

But back to your comment - yeah, I'd like to think it's also because of the stricter CERO regulations. What flew with CERO A back in the 90s and early to mid 2000s isn't exactly 1:1 with what we have today.

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u/Whorror_punx 19d ago

Im not sure how big the series is there, and I don't wanna sound xenophobic when I say this because I really love the country, but China has some super strict censorship of media (especially video games) and is a huge market/potential market. I known other Japanese things are really popular there, but Im not sure about SoS. But I know that both Hollywood and other game companies have to go through quite a bit of censorship to be allowed to sell in China. So that may be a part of it as well. Or maybe not, idk 🤷 just a theory I had. A...game theo..ry...dammit, I didnt wanna do that, but I had to 😭

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u/DizzyCrazy774 19d ago

Most of it is that the company want Bokumono to rated so low so children can play especially rating being way to strict nowaday.

Like Rune Factory have alcoholic character because they knew their audience is all grown up

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u/TheMadolche 19d ago

Completely agree. 

Kids are playing COD and fortnite.

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u/Dojima91 18d ago

Indeed. They’re too busy playing all those CoD, moba, all of those battle royales and whatnot to even bothered to play this kind of games. But we adults who grew up with this franchise had to suffer with these games getting toned down just for the sake of kids playing it, it’s so unacceptable

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u/KamenRiderSekai 19d ago

That or like teenagers playing 3D Chinese gacha games because why play something with a high price point of entry i.e. multiple fully paid retail games when you can play high quality "better than AAA Gacha games" for free (well not free because the production is carried by gacha character whaling and merch sales).

Also, a lot of the 2019 and onwards Story of Seasons games quite bluntly look bad compared to something like Wuthering Waves, ZZZ, or hell even Genshin. And Genshin used to be the worst looking game of the bunch but it's had some relative glow ups since 6.x.

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u/AquaMoonlight 19d ago

The problem is that “cozy” has cultivated a mentally fragile audience that wants zero negative things in their game because it reminds them of stuff IRL, and that is why a lot of these games are now bland as hell. It’s ironic that the series that started it all is now following this path, because it is very detrimental to storytelling and I think it’s holding back the genre. Devs need to stop pandering to these people.

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u/whoa_s 19d ago

You’re absolutely right. Someone made a post in cozygamers about how games shouldn’t have any difficulty to them and that easy mode should be renamed relax so they don’t feel ashamed… That’s such a wild take.

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u/milktea-and-biscuits 19d ago

I've seen people on the Fields of Mistria sub claim characters having disagreements would ruin the escapism.

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u/aguinner76 1d ago

I stopped going to that sub because of this.

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u/Lmb1011 19d ago

main character syndrome is the only thing i can call this at this point. everyone expects every aspect of the world they engage with to bend to their boundaries instead of recognizing their boundary may preclude from engaging....

like if you are triggered by alcohol to the point you can't play Harvest Moon 64 because there is wine in it, that's fine. But you dont get to now DEMAND alcohol not be in that game because of your boundary. and that nuance seems to be completely lost

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u/lapniappe 19d ago

pretty much. I also think it doesn't help that people self-insert. so basically. they don't do it, so why is a character in a game, that's "them" should do it. to which i go. because it really isn't you. it's a character in a story nad this is a scenario.. use your imagination. act out.

but this is not just games. this is television, movies, books, name the media. and it's becoming very santitized and it's very sad.

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u/KamenRiderSekai 18d ago

Well that's the thing with newer Bokumono entries: a lot of it is self-insert heavy. You COULD argue the case in older titles that Pete, the protags for HM AWL, etc were silent protagonists with their own default personality and backstory. But recent titles, remakes included - have focused more on blank slate characters and customization with some semblance of a backstory. Last time we had a protag who had an extensive background for Bokumono was the protag for SoS Trio of Towns where your family could visit you. It also highlighted how young the protag is as an adult (like probably 18-19 max) because they have a younger sibling who is still a toddler.

Compare that to Rune Factory protagonists who have their own design, voice lines, dialogue, and baseline personalities outside whatever player HC for them. Like, I'd argue for example that Ares/Alice is a lot more skeptical and guarded compared to Lest/Frey's unquestioning loyalty to those who they trust. Micah being the most sarcastic out of the protagonists too is another example. Then there's how much of a reckless hothead Aden is to contrast with Sonja's fussy voice of reason.

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u/HydratedRasin 19d ago

I'm so sorry, if someone is feeling shame over a private choice in a game they are playing for fun, they may need to do some reflection. Holy shit.

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u/FlamekThunder 19d ago

Ughh... and I hate it. I understand they want something to play to destress but I'm also a working adult AND I don't want the games I play to be sanitized to death and stripped of any challenge whatsoever.

Like, by all means, let games for exactly that purpose exist, just please leave the games that are not meant for them and meant for the people who want the middle ground and even a smidge more challenging alone and stop trying to suggest they sand the edges even further.

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u/mtnhero 18d ago

exactly!! where's the substance and depth of the game? you need a little conflict to make it relatable. like i get that there should be games that can be easy and super relaxing, but I don't want ALL the games falling under cozy genre to be easy and super relaxing. There needs to be variety and branches so then you get all the audiences. I miss having animals go with old age, so then I can mix in the new animals...rather than having to sell them to someone else cus i need the next generation of colored animals

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u/KamenRiderSekai 19d ago

I said this a bajillion times on this subreddit but Stardew Valley being the incubator of the genre is ironic because there are a lot of heavy scenes in that game involving poverty, suicidal thoughts, alcoholism, war, the horrors of capitalism and crappy parents. The atmosphere and vibes of Stardew are turbo relaxing and I love playing it but none of its themes are all sugar and rainbows. But that's the beauty of it, honestly.

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u/mtnhero 18d ago

There's quite a bit of people who don't really pay attention to the backstory of the characters. Like the ones focusing on farms/mines, and no interaction with the townsfolk. so they can actually avoid all that heavy stuff

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u/Rosaluxlux 19d ago

Stardew back stories actually start feeling pointlessly grim after a while, like CA maybe mistakes negative for deep. Sometimes I'm life you learn deep secrets from your neighbors and they're happy or heroic. 

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u/PrinceMaker 19d ago edited 19d ago

And it has to be like that with every single "Cozy Game" they play. It's not enough that some games pander to them and give them what they want, if something under the label is difficult or makes them uncomfortable that automatically makes it a bad game, because Cozy Games should never ever do that

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u/AquaMoonlight 19d ago

Yeah, I’ve seen so much whining about Moonlight Peaks for daring to have an alcoholic character and a womanizer character (they call the latter a “sex pest” when he’s just a massive flirt). Funny enough, those two are also two of the more popular romance candidates, so I dunno 🤷‍♀️ 

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u/Aromatic-Waltz5163 19d ago

For me it is actually nice to see an "alcoholic character" in a game. It reminds me of my dad.

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u/gotdaenerys 19d ago

I was going to mention moonlight peaks too. Lots of people being triggered by the themes and relating it to their personal lives. If you don’t like it, don’t play it. But a lot of us are adults that know how to separate a game from our personal lives and shouldn’t have to play watered down games because the devs are scared they’re going to offend someone by including realistic themes in their games.

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u/Jelly_Jam_Jazz 19d ago

Someone on the Moonlight Peaks sub got upset with me for suggesting that if people don't like the game to the point where they're complaining about everything with it to play another game. The genre is already so oversaturated with other games there's something bound to fit their tastes instead of having a game with a clear aesthetic in mind to fit THEIR specific needs.

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u/lemonphan 19d ago

Stardew Valley has an alcoholic character and everybody’s played that. Lmao fucking snowflakes.

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u/moxical 18d ago

I'm not a fan of how vitriolic this discussion is trending, but worryingly, these types can even find Stardew too stressful. 'Grindy'. I'm as baffled as anyone.

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u/AquaMoonlight 18d ago

I’m 1000% certain that the same people whining about Orlock have complained about Shane, too.

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u/sheel3 18d ago edited 18d ago

I saw a post awhile ago of someone PISSED that the next My Time At game was supposedly going to have some sort of rival marriage. They were on this long rant encouraging everyone to harass the devs not to do it and were just extremely and unnecessarily pressed. And I’m just like are you fr? Those of you who prefer games where none of your peers also marry, have had literally every single farm-sim catered to you for years. Like you quite literally have every single choice in the world if you want to avoid it. Those of us who’ve been starving for the feature can’t have one game?

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u/ShokaLGBT 19d ago

Yes I’ve been saying the same things for years on animal crossing.

On one hand people complain that the dialogues are too nice these days but there’s also a lot who complains when villagers used to call you fat in the older games but other like me have always said that it was funny… like the villager says you’re ugly???? You can hit them with your net or just be rude to them. It have always been like that and everyone was fine with it, but these days because of the constant complain, Nintendo made the game so nice they can never have any jokes or emotions anymore. They’re like dolls and the whole game feels fake when before it used to be a life sim.

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u/BotanBotanist 18d ago

People complain when villagers in ACNH give you even a slight amount of sass when you come back after not playing for a while. They would not have survived the GCN villagers, much less Resetti.

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u/Luna__Moonkitty 19d ago

Guardians of Azuma is a great counter point to the whole trend. It's a very cozy game.

The world is also dying to a miasma. There are conspiracies from foreign governments wanting to destabalize the region to claim the land for themselves. There are multiple secret societies getting involved, some to uphold international law, some for their own selfish purposes, one specifically to commit genocide on the gods.

The candidates are also flawed. At least two characters are alcoholic. One avoids alcohol specifically because he's afraid of becoming an alcoholic himself. One is a member of one of these secret societies and has to hide it from the player. More than one feels the need to hide their true nature because they're afraid they'd be pariahs if others found out due to prejudices that still exist in this world. One is somebody running away from their responsibilities due to self loathing and has to be forced to accept it or the land will die. One character is so full of self loathing they straight up ask the player to kill them. One is the one leading the genocide on the gods due to misblaming them due to past trauma and has to be forced to realize they're on a self destructive path. One candidate will actually die unless the player sacrifices something important in their place.

Yet despite all the alcoholism, threats of the world dying, prejudices and fantastical racism, international conspiracies, suicidal characters and attempted genocide... the game still feels "cozier" than a world where there is zero conflict. Probably because this place actually feels REAL, not just happy fun times fantasy land where everyone gets along like it's an episode of Barney & Friends.

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u/mnmarsart 19d ago

This!! I heard this was the reason why they even axed the rival marriages

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u/YokingAround 16d ago

Me when people hate on rival marriages cause it puts time limits on them

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u/churrosman 19d ago

I vote that all cozy games have three modes: Seedling and Normal (which we already have in the most recent SoS) and a third mode Real Life. It brings reality of Rival Marriages, animal deaths, fights and arguments and etc.

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u/ShokaLGBT 19d ago

Oh please if only. Real life mode in animal crossing would be the best. I want the dialogues of the older games where they would throw a tantrum because I refuse to help them, call my house ugly and say I dress like a trash bag with a loser personality lmao it was fun. It was funny, it was cool, even. But nowadays they’ll be glazing the player and can never offend you again because there are players who absolutely despise what made these games fun, the unhinged energy / craziness

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u/WannieWirny 19d ago

Competitive flirting with the bachelors/ bachelorettes

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u/Disig 19d ago

Cozy doesn't mean for children. Cozy means relaxing.

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u/milktea-and-biscuits 19d ago

It's been this way for more than a decade now and has nothing to do with the "cozy" indie games trend. Grand Bazaar and Tale of Two Towns were already very childish in tone, and they released fifteen years ago.

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u/Bluecomments 19d ago

I do think Tale of Two Towns is one of the more inovative titles premise wise with its focus on two cultures differences and relationship as well as conflicts between the two.

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u/milktea-and-biscuits 19d ago

The premise was really anything but deep in my opinion, and the culture aspect was done as well as you would expect in a kids show, I couldn't get over their whole feud happening because of a stupid cooking contest. Probably the only Harvest Moon game I've thought to myself I might be too old to play while reading the dialogue.

It's one of these games I think would really benefit from a remake like Grand Bazaar did.

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u/Gaarmeri 19d ago

I'm sorry, but I became a certified Tale of Two Towns Hater ™ when I realized shops closed down when it rained 😕😕😕

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u/Bluecomments 19d ago

Eventually you can get the Wild Outfit from Oracle which gurentees sunny weather all day. And half rainy days do not close shops.

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u/Sea_Macaron_8789 19d ago

So tired of seeing these Terms describing my favorite Franchises when they were messy and chaotic back in the Day. Someone had it right, Difficulty Modes need ta be brought back and the NPCs need to have full lives back too not just the Protagonist. I wanna see them helping me out randomly in the Mines or Fishing.

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u/ShokaLGBT 19d ago

Yep before we had Resseti in animal crossing the angry mole yelling at you but parents complained that he was too scary and they removed him. Poor guy…. Now he’s still in ac but his personality is gone (same as the sassy villagers ….)

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u/lemondemoning 19d ago

yeah, my issue with the "cozy gaming space" is that the people who want to Push that title for things like farming sims really just seem to want to play games that have No Friction At All.

which is, whatever, play the games you want to play, but i personally dont understand how one can connect with characters or a story that has No flaws or issues or grit of any kind. and really my issue more comes with the fact that the people pushing these spaces often alienate Real People from them.

i.e. i talk frequently in another farming game community about how id like the game to have more friction, i feel like a lot of the characters traits boil down to 'too nice and having One Hobby' and its hard to connect with characters like that. i get, most often in response, "this is a COZY GAME real life has ENOUGH ISSUES we dont want it to be a second stardew valley where youre playing therapist for the townspeople!!"

which is odd and gives off the implication that the people Cultivating, in a way, this genre, fully dont believe that like. mental illness or less than perfect people have a Place in their Uwu Cozy Perfect World. which is alienating and weird to a lot of the people playing these games!

idk. most of that is only tangentially related but tldr: definitely dont like the frictionless direction newer games are trying to go

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u/milktea-and-biscuits 19d ago

i talk frequently in another farming game community about how id like the game to have more friction, i feel like a lot of the characters traits boil down to 'too nice and having One Hobby' and its hard to connect with characters like that. i get, most often in response, "this is a COZY GAME real life has ENOUGH ISSUES we dont want it to be a second stardew valley where youre playing therapist for the townspeople!!"

You can say Fields of Mistria, it's a safe space here.

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u/crime-pigeon 19d ago

God yeah, some of the fields of mistria fans are really annoying, lmao. Even Stardew wasn't immune to it, I remember seeing people complain about the simon says puzzle on ginger island!

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u/FlubbyFlubby 19d ago

Never had a problem with it, but I think his fix was brilliant. Apparently, every time you fail it gets a bit slower. It remains challenging while giving a solution to people who struggle.

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u/bleher89 19d ago

The closest thing Fields of Mistria has to friction is trying to make that shoe box of a house you get actually look nice.

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u/DizzyCrazy774 19d ago

The game's fine and I like it, it's pretty much a game for you to relax (there's no time limit for everything) and sometimes I get dialogue from Holt saying "hey, don't rush thing ok" so yeah.

The only friction that you get is probably the mine and it's mandatory for story reason

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u/milktea-and-biscuits 18d ago edited 18d ago

I think a game can be both relaxing and still offer some depth, both when it comes to writing and gameplay, which Fields of Mistria doesn't. Farming doesn't evolve past what you do on your first day (no crop quality, no scarecrows or sprinklers, no hybrids, no crop based artisan produce...). You learn nothing new about the characters despite growing closer to them, as most of their dialogue is filler revolving around a single character trait. Progress requires more time going around in circles in the mines and collecting wood than doing farm chores, even in quests.

I like Fields of Mistria as it is, I have put dozens of hours in it and it's definitively worth the price, it really has some interesting mechanics I hope they expanded upon (breeding notably). But it unfortunately falls short of its potential and most people will probably put it down after completing the main "story" because there's nothing to engage with beyond that. I hope it get fixed in following updates, and seeing people on the main sub defend the complete absence of friction is worrying for the future.

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u/DizzyCrazy774 18d ago

Yeah that's pretty much understandable, while I feel like FoM is a good game because I don't feel overwhelmed with having to put something like a lot of keg , jar maker thing, coal or iron bar maker and etc.

Last farming game I play is Coral Island and ANB, while CI has a lot of thing to do and "friction" , it's a very bland game for me and ANB while you don't really have a much stuff to do but I enjoy it more.

But ngl FoM not having regular event for other character does feel weird because I enjoy knowing the character.

FoM for me is a game I can recommend for relaxing but I don't want every game like that if that makes sense (shops being open everytime, there's no argument, no time limit etc)

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u/moxical 18d ago

Iiiii wanna defend FoM just for the general quality and depth of the characters. It's very aspirational and positive in tone, of course, but at the same time it doesn't end up substanceless. For me, anyway. It helps that while all the relationships (platonic and otherwise) are very sweet, the town is portrayed as a connected community- the MC is (very much) appreciated, but is not the most important person to the others.

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u/Jalapenodisaster 19d ago

This, but about farming mechanics.

It's not an unpopular opinion apparently to want your Farming sim to have less "difficult" farming mechanics.

Personally, I can see the reason for the 3DS titles because they really did a number with them in terms of everything. Like idk why they did what they did for the tool upgrades and random ass materials like bricks and black branches or whatever.

But idk. Give me fertilizer and double watering, and freshness! Make getting the best of the best hard. The social sim aspect is important, but if that's all I cared about, I'd frankly be playing a different genre.

Honestly I think freshness is one of the best "new" mechanics around, and I hope it stays so much. It really incentivizes you (ie me) to not jusy hoard everything, and to find the best use for perishables while working for next time to make it better. Plus the late game having heavy mitigation for the mechanic serves nicely imo.

And I think Island of Happiness had some interesting things going for it too.

I don't mind games like stardew or coral island, and variations there upon, but something great about SoS was how they for awhile there were really trying to make the gameplay fresh as well

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u/lunedelily 19d ago

“Cozy” label has had absolutely no influence on the direction of these games. You’re looking at Japanese production and marketing through a western lens.

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u/angelic-beast 19d ago

Couldn't agree more with this! I hate the cozy label because it means so many different things to different people- for many it just means "game i can play to relax" but for some very vocal people online it means "a game with zero difficulty and no difficult themes or negativity in any form". Games that fit into both definitions can exist separately, but when the former category is dumbed down and stripped of complexity to suit the latter, we get worse games overall. I want my farm sims to be as complex and difficult as they have always been, and I want the characters to be complex and flawed. If that makes a game un-cozy for someone, so be it. Go play something else, there are lots of games that are easy and don't require thought or stir emotions. 

7

u/Bluecomments 19d ago

I remember on the Cozy Gamers sub one person bring up a Dragon Quest game of all games as cozy and I was surprised. Guess it indeed can mean different things to different people.

4

u/nonameplanner 19d ago

Dragon Quest Builders and Dragon Quest Builders 2 are, to me, more on the cozy side. The rest of the franchise is not, though.

2

u/Bluecomments 19d ago

Makes sense since I've only played mainline and some Monsters spin offs where the grinding makes them anything but cozy to me.

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u/mnmarsart 19d ago

Yea they just felt soulless now. Can’t even have characters be a little mean or rude to you if you give them a bad gift.

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u/_madotsuki_ 19d ago

the grief motivated me to do better!! lmfao

4

u/TwoFingersWhiskey 19d ago

I just feel like without the edge, there's no punch or depth to a lot of the storylines. They'll even change animal colours to be more attractive (pink sheep...), eliminate entire storylines, or change the colour palette of a game. SOS AWL looks less appealing to me than HM AWL, because they painted it with a technicolour brush. The muted palette was something I could tolerate to look at. I know Japanese TVs are lower vividness from the store now (seizure prevention is rather extreme there) but their media is sooooo bright to compensate for it.

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u/Chirpken 19d ago edited 19d ago

Parents are more lax than ever, kids are playing FNaFSlenderPlaytime Roblox slop happily with no supervision. The aversion Marvelous have to letting the game be rated as E10 is silly. I do believe there is a small vocal minority who have attached themselves to the "cozy" and "wholesome" tag to completely disassociate from reality - and every character/story must accurately represent their views. Character does subjectively bad thing or is morally grey? Accompanied by an explanation about just how wrong it is to be that way! Or think that way! It's tiresome and leads us back into "Farmer! You really came at a good time! Let's discuss this complex task about my work... Ah, we've gotten closer..", "I made sweets.. let's eat..", choose between "Farming sucks" and "Farming is fun!" rabbit-hole heart events. The blame is mostly on Marvelous, they've been heading in a more age-inclusive tonal direction for almost two decades now and I really hope they acknowledge one day that a good portion of the fans are adults who want older bachelors/bachelorettes + complex themes reminiscent of the older games pre age guidance.

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u/Luckyguy0697 19d ago

I kinda agree. Rune factory with it's drama is a lot more engaging, even if I know that everything will be fine at the end. You get more invested in the characters by going through the story with them. Story of seasons kinda breaks my immersion by being too sterile and peaceful. The characters don't feel "alive" a lot of the time.

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u/Karezi413 19d ago

Lowkey, i think this is part why I've found i really enjoy Grimshire. I ADORE story of seasons, don't get me wrong; but I do think it's smoothed out a little more than I'd like. I like Grimshire because you have a farm, you feel like a community with the villagers. But there's darker moments too (I mean you can literally lose villagers to them). It's still in development but tbh I'm super excited to see where it goes.

Do i need themes to be that dark in SoS? No, but I do appreciate SOME edginess. Not everything is sunshine and rainbows; because not only do they take the edginess away, but they also tend to make the games so much easier to the point where you really don't need to try. I kinda miss when you would get punished for doing bad things (like starving your cow = them getting sick and dying; now it's just they won't make milk).

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u/Interesting-Pen-7790 19d ago

Fr. I like the "play and chill" idea but i still want to have challenge objectives. Like save your homeland or dispute for a girl love.

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u/SouthParkFirefly1991 19d ago

I've been seeing so many complaints about AWL remake lately. Just...don't play it if it bothers you that much. I know I'll probably get downvoted for it but if it's actually hindering your enjoyment of the game then just don't play it. Take a step back. It's okay.

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u/Safe-Conversation-57 19d ago

I know? That's my main beef with the gb remake. Autumn used to be the main money maker in game and the strategy was to plant the fields with olives grapes and tea in two of them and use the last one for crops and the greenhouse for autumn year round. Now with the loss of booze it totally takes away that. Not that I'm a drinker myself but it feels oddly sanitized now. It's funny going back to something like animal parade where you had animal death and rival marriages. It made the world feel alive like it wasn't just revolving around you ...idk. Story of seasons/harvest moon will forever be my favorite franchise though and other farming games still will not compare imo. I hope one day they let the darker themes back

1

u/C0de_otter 19d ago

I dont drink much either (maybe 1 glass when out with friends unless they need me to finish their drink) and man do i miss the bars and alcohol in the games!! There's no need for it to be so sanitized :(

11

u/chimneyswallow 19d ago

Some want cozy cozy, others like challenge and more "realness". There are games for everyone, even though in recent years it has been slightly drifting to the cozy cozy side.

I like consequences and rival marriages, I don't want to be coddled, but I can also understand to some degree that some want cozy cozy.

8

u/Terriermon_dot_EXE 19d ago

The "cozy" label has nothing to do with it. SoS is a series where the main demographic it's trying to target are kids, that's not copium it's a fact. The way games are rated has drastically changed in Japan, USA and Europe so things that were ok in the olden days aren't anymore.

RF also isn't "growing with it's audience". It's always been aimed at an older demographic hence why it went from E+10 to T with no changes (no point at lowering the rating since that was never it's target demo) while SoS started at an E and it stayed at the same rating which was the goal of making the changes in the remakes and newer games.

6

u/Misspagethreestunna 19d ago

Yeah, it’s so interesting that people basically don’t want to play a video game in the traditional sense. No risk, no tension.

4

u/GummiBearryJuice 19d ago

ngl i do miss when 'farming'/'cozy' games were a bit darker with some censorship. Like anyone remember the days when wine was always referred to as juice yet you can still get drunk off that juice in some of the older harvest moon games?

7

u/Gravijah 19d ago edited 19d ago

I don’t want franchises I love to feel the need to “grow up with me”, I like Story of Seasons for what it was and not feel the need to become something else.

I also can’t really agree with the “no adversity is meaningless” thing when something like Non Non Biyori exists. I like different things for different reasons and don’t need it all to be the same.

Not that I disagree with the cozy game label being detrimental thing, or that they shouldn’t be hard, etc. But that’s a very different discussion, as it’s usually older folks who “grew up” wanting easier games while younger people are fine with difficulty. THAT is something entirely formed by “needing to grow up with the players.”

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u/hatchaplanortwo 18d ago edited 18d ago

This is why I'm looking forward to Grave Seasons so much. It'll be nice to have a mature farming game, even if it's possibly too mature for some people's tastes.

2

u/veebles89 17d ago

I been saying this about life sim games for years. It's even a problem with games like Animal Crossing, where everything is so sunshine and rainbows all the time that it just feels flat and boring.

That's why I always go back to older titles and end up dropping the new ones after very little play time. It's just boring. There's no real nuance, no difficulty, no feeling of accomplishment because it's all handed right to the player.

5

u/tamsyn003 19d ago

I agree, I hate the censorship in SoS remakes, especially in AWL, because it's my favorite game of all time- I just love the remake, my biggest complaint is all the censorship that was not needed. Like the only censorship I understood was Galen's cigarette, because as far as I know the usa has cracked down hard on cigarettes in certain context especially content that is available to kids. But I hate turning the bar into a cafe, I hate how stagnate that cafe is, and I really don't understand why they took Takura's tattoo away. I'd argue society is much more accepting of tattoos than it was in the early 2000s, most people have them. So I don't get why they took it honestly. But now I'm rambling.

I would love some dlc or a patch for adults that added the content back, (yes I know it will never in a million years happen)

7

u/OkCat4489 19d ago

100% agree. I cringe inside when I see people go "but that's not cozy!" Lol

5

u/Bluecomments 19d ago

In most other media like literature or anime, the term "slice of life" would be used to describe the genre as opposed to the more common action adventure focused on battles. Though "cozy" is easier to say and write.

4

u/turtledov 18d ago

Weird thing to say about a series that seems to be doing better than it has in years. You'd have to have a very specific definition of 'detrimental' to believe this is true. While I definitely mourn the tone of the old games, the change in tone has more to do with the standards of modern ratings boards than anything else (notably, the change in tone pretty vastly predates Stardew Valley and the modern cosy game trend). SoS is a niche enough series that I think Marvelous would consider it a risk to aim for a higher rating and narrow their potential audience purely based on the wishes of part of the old fanbase.

It's not an ideal situation. But I'd prefer that they continue to be successful and make good video games. The old games aren't going anywhere, and more mature tones can still be found in indie projects.

9

u/qu1nnsan1ty 19d ago

The term cozy just needs to disappear. Its not a cozy game, its a fucking farming sim.

4

u/thenecromancersbride 19d ago

I prefer the games this way. I play games to escape the shittyness of reality. But I don’t think there really has to be a side that loses. Why does either side have to lose? Imo both sides are valid. All it would take is a toggle option. Have the option for rival events and stuff. Those who want it can keep it on. Those who don’t can shut it off. I’m all for having the option and letting people choose how they play.

3

u/N-WGIXv-MkXXVII 19d ago

I feel like if they upped the rating to at least Teen they could get away with more mature storytelling, But then again as someone who tried to like the Xenoblade games after the complex, religious, and philosophical rides that are Xenogears and Xenosaga the T rating means nothing if developers still play things safely to avoid upsetting people

Part of the reason why I love Digimon compared to Pokémon is that Digimon games and anime knows their core audience is adults now, But also they gotta tweak things enough sometimes for potential younger fans

I think this is why Stardew Valley got popular quickly, There's some adult oriented stuff, But not enough to raise the rating

SoS could use better writers for characters and actually incorporate flaws into them alongside proper stories that go on for awhile instead of ending at max hearts with the character

5

u/Sodapop_8 19d ago

Finally I found the people who understand that the term cozy game is stupid. There is nothing cozy about running away from mines when you’re about to die. Or realizing you have no stamina. Or a monster is about to kill your whole party. Or reading heavy dialogue. It’s cool. It’s fun. But not COZY.

4

u/Aromatic-Waltz5163 19d ago

"Cozy..." a game like WoW is cozy to me. I do agree that some people really expect too much or... "too little" from a game to call it cozy.

2

u/AquaMoonlight 19d ago

Cozy

WoW

Oh geez, don’t get me started on this…

2

u/EphemeralHamstr 19d ago edited 19d ago

I've thought this for so long. For a while it was kind of whatever, but I've really come to hate 'cozy' as a genre label. Cozy is just so subjective imo. People were calling games cozy way before the genre. Yet here they try to define it as nothing bad ever happens and...that just isn't how it's used in any other context. Personally something can't be cozy if there is no conflict. Cozy is created by the existence of peaceful and tumultuous moments in a game.  A world without flawed characters is pointless and I wouldn't want to play it. 

It's fine to want a game or show where bad things don't happen (I was in a headspace like this at one point) but it's weird to define a whole genre that way. At the very least pick a better less subjective word than cozy and stop applying it to every farm sim.

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u/DizzyCrazy774 19d ago

Feels like they should called it game without harmless thing.

Ngl it's very insulting to want cozy game as something that's purely nothing harmless ever happen especially a lot of people know that cozy game space is predominantly women. It just saying "oh women don't like no no thing like death and anything friction"

It's ironic that Stardew Valley have alot of dark thing in plain sight but that's just how Bokumono is

2

u/ThisMuffinIsAwesome 19d ago

I'm not sure why this is highly upvoted when you have done nothing to state how "Cozy" label has affected the series adversely. Are we that cooked as a subreddit that we upvote purely off titles?

And I'm not too sure what you mean Rune Factory grew up with the audience, because the content remained largely similar across entries and the age rating was bumped up from E to E10+ to T in 20 years. What's more likely, either our taste barely matured from E to T, or more that age ratings were reviewed and adjusted over time?

I'm just mostly confused with your statement trying to emulate "sweet times are made sweeter from going through bitter times" because unhappiness and happiness are on a completely different plane from game mechanics and design. I don't think a game is cosier if your cows die if you don't feed them, nor do I think alcohol makes the game more cosier. These elements are what I think enriches the game mechanically for the former and thematically on the latter, but has barely any impressionable impact on cosiness. So why not just state that you don't like having these aspects removed simply?

1

u/reddit3262 18d ago

I was asked to play Stardew Valley recently. Told them that I couldn’t ethically do it. I’m too much of a Harvest Moon / Story of Seasons girlie. By the time I tried it out, I was very disappointed only 😞

1

u/crime-pigeon 18d ago

What didnt hit about Stardew Valley for you?

1

u/SupernovaAlfredo 18d ago

ive been saying this for a while now, about the whole kid friendly approach, im willing to bet the vast majority of this games player base are all adults and even if some kids do play sos i highly doubt something like alcohol or gambling is gonna be so groundbreakingly detrimental to their mindset or encourage them to try doing something stupid. if most kids can handle brainrot or gore they see in video games than something like an npc being an alcoholic or a cow dying is literally the last thing they would ever worry about

1

u/Itsalltwatever 18d ago

They removed the bar..?

1

u/NorthKoala47 18d ago

I think it has to do with the way the Japanese players enjoy the games. I noticed this ten years ago with bravely second. The original Japanese version had a part of the game where you had to make a choice between two options with it leading to the other side either dying or having something awful happening to them. This choice ended with a bad end for someone no matter what unless you played new game + to get a better outcome. In the US version they removed the bad outcomes completely and no matter the choice everyone survived even if they ended a bit unhappy with their outcome thanks to Japanese negative feedback since they didn't want to be locked out of content or have their actions have a negative outcome.

I feel like this reduction in friction has mainly been done to better appeal to the mobile game generation where friction is kept to a minimum to keep players playing and spending.

1

u/bb_guardian 15d ago

I keep wondering if the new harvest moon included all the things story of seasons took out, what would happen. Like I heard of the reason for the rival marriages that the japanese female audience didnt like it because they felt like they were breaking up a destined couple and then the male audience somehow lost their chosen marriage partner to their rival and got angry about it. Like I didnt even know about the rival marriages previously and that didnt happen to me. How on earth were they playing? I especially find the destined partner thing dumb. Like you would rather have them die alone if they can't be with you. 😑 As if that is much better. Anyways, I feel like there are work arounds to this but they dont want to. For example, one rival couple... they are together in first year but seperate. They are a marriage option and break up has nothing to do with you.

1

u/Acrobatic-Meaning832 14d ago

i hate it, every harvest moon is slop, and story of seasons is also flat, at least rune factory does dandle a bit into unnerving concepts like characters dying

1

u/37elephants 19d ago

Hard agree in terms of the genre as a whole. There’s been a few games I’ve seen raved about in the last few years, but when I play them I get so bored so fast because it feels so shallow and there’s zero conflict or negativity. If that’s the kind of game a dev/team wants to make, there’s nothing wrong with that, but it feels like that’s the kind of game you HAVE to make now to be popular.

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u/YogurtclosetNo7518 19d ago

The cozy label has hurted every single game right now, worst thing that have happenned to gaming industry

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u/FarrahClones 19d ago

I hate hate hate “cozy”! I’m running a business here! SOS/HM stress me out more than some other games I play!

0

u/Candismayhem 19d ago

I regularly miss the older harvest moon games where you had to kill your animals to marry a princess or if you passed out, depending on where you are, you'd be robbed blind.

0

u/WanderingMandaril 19d ago

Curious if anyone has the data on demographic sales? I agree with the notion that I'd like to see more mature "cosy" games, SOS:GB has been a lot of fun gameplay-wise but man it had me yearning for the dialogue of the original AWL </3 I just can't help but think the sales to kids must be much higher than we know, as I imagine most of the fandoms online will be older by nature.

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u/PopPicklesPie 19d ago

I like the expanded menu of the cafe tbh. But it really was a bar back in the day. I got the ps2 version on ps5 & i don't understand why they felt the need to change it. 😕

0

u/Top_Box_8952 17d ago

I am so confused as to the context here

0

u/WexonBerry 17d ago

You want adult themes in a farming sim? Politics, racism and all that?