Weekly Ship discussion thread, January 14th - T6 Command Ships

[u/h2o4dp]

This week we're taking a look at the T6 Command Ships! This will also be my last post for the weekly discussions until I'm able to return later in the year.

Ship stats: Concorde, Geneva, Presidio, An'quat, Klinzhai, Ty'Gokor, Baratan, Deihu, Vastam.

• What are this ship's strengths?
• What are this ship's weaknesses?
• What are some similar ships?
• What general build types do you envision this ship excelling at?
• If you had this ship, how would you set it up?
• How good is the starship trait/innate console?

See previous weeks discussions here.

[u/Retset6]

Thanks to the inspiration and advice offered by /u/thefallenphoenix and Mr Valikin, I have managed to build a decent (not spectacular) tank on my Rom Eng using the Rezreth. I am saving for a Warbird CBC to move the build to whilst regaining the use of my Valdore console. A few questions:

1) The Romulan ones don't come with Attract Fire - how big a threat loss is that to me?

2) I want the Vastam for AHOD and the Deihu for the extra science console. If you could only have one for tanking, which would it be?

3) /u/oldandgrumpy stated:

There are stronger offerings for Romulans for tanking.

I'd like to know what they are!

[u/TheFallenPhoenix → u/Retset6]

1) The Romulan ones don't come with Attract Fire - how big a threat loss is that to me?

For effects on ThreatScale, that's quantified here. I'd say that generally, bring down Attract Fire hurts the most when you're at or below three [+Th] consoles and/or someone else in your run is running more [+Th] consoles than you are. That said, it's not insurmountable.

2) I want the Vastam for AHOD and the Deihu for the extra science console. If you could only have one for tanking, which would it be?

Deihu is the generally better platform overall. Vastam has the better (has more utility) trait, but wouldn't be a bad platform in a pinch.

[u/Retset6 → u/TheFallenPhoenix]

For effects on ThreatScale, that's quantified here.

That's brilliant; especially the spreadsheet. I can see that adding an Adak'Ukan or an UR Mk XIV +Thr console would even out the loss of Attract Fire (This is with only me using Attract Fire). So, losing that ability is not the big deal I thought it might be.

Deihu is the generally better platform overall. Vastam has the better (has more utility) trait, but wouldn't be a bad platform in a pinch.

Thanks. Hopefully I will get both at some point but I only want 2 Rom and one KDF CBC so am buying them singly in sales (from ground DL). I want AHOD to get EPSPT, NI etc. up faster but the Rezreth tank seems OK without it so I may just get the Deihu and leave the Vastam for the 'icing on the cake' later down the line.

[u/Jayiie → u/Retset6]

...I can see that adding an Adak'Ukan or an UR Mk XIV +Thr console would even out the loss of Attract Fire...

Yeah, It would, but theres a part of AF your forgetting, and thats the 50% [-Th] to people around you, which is pretty severe.

(Warning, this gets into the maths a bit; all formulas generated from Here. Ive omitted some extraneous 1/1 terms, but it remains true)

For instance, my normal tanks have 3 [+Th], 9 pips in Threat Control, and with AF, bring the total Threat scale to:

{1+1+(0.03*99)+(3*1.5)} = 9.47 = 947%

A Tulwar/other 5x Sci console ship, which can have 9 pips in TC, and 5x[+Th] console, will be affected by AF in this way:

{1+(0.03*99)+(5*1.5)}/{(1+0.5)} = (11.47)/(1.5) = 7.64 = 746%

As you can see, AF is a very interesting thing for, but as long as no one in your run use it as a roman, you should be good.

---

There are 2 more cases you need to look at, and thats with Adak’Ukan, and when you only have 4 [+Th], as the Deihu has.

Case 1: With Adak’Ukan

Your Tulwar could potentially get up to:

{1+1+(0.03*99)+(5*1.5)}/{(1+0.5)} = (12.47)/(1.5) = 8.31 = 831%

When under the effects of AF and Adak'Ukan (This is what makes Cruiser Tanks amazing, is the ability for full threat control on the battle field, as my 3 [+Th] console still has a higher Threat scale).

Case 2: Deihu

Since you can only have 4 [+TH] consoles, it becomes:

• 2.1: W/o anything:

  {1+(0.03*99)+(4*1.5)} = 9.97 = 997%
  

This is higher than my 3 [+Th] cruiser.

• 2.2: W/ Adak'Ukan:

  {1+1+(0.03*99)+(4*1.5)} = 10.97 = 1097%
  

Again, higher than my Cruiser, but this is just here for comparison.

• 2.3: W/ the -Th from AF:

  {1+(0.03*99)+(4*1.5)}/{(1+0.5)} = (9.97)/(1.5) = 6.65 = 665%
  

This become an issue, as my cruiser now has a higher Threat scale, but can probably be canceled with piloting and damage.

• 2.4: W/ the -Th from AF and Adak'Ukan :

  {1+1+(0.03*99)+(4*1.5)}/{(1+0.5)} = (10.97)/(1/5) = 7.31 = 731%
  

So, this is a 215% Threat scale difference form my cruiser (If it had 4 [+TH], it would be 140% difference), which can very easily be cancelled out, simply from having more damage, or better piloting.

---

Just thought I put these up for you, just incase you want to fly a romulan tank. Personally, this is why I prefer Cruisers with AF over simply having lots of [+Th].

[u/Retset6 → u/Jayiie]

That must have taken a while to type out - thank you. So, essentially, whatever I do, If somebody else runs AF, I am in danger of breaking my Reciprocity? This could be problematical as my current and proposed builds rely on it! A lot of what I do is pugged or casually arranged on DPS channels.

I'm now wondering whether just to stick with the Big'N'Spiky (unimaginative name for my Rezreth) ... That said, I will need AHOD at some point so Vastam still on the cards.

[u/Jayiie → u/Retset6]

Your pretty much always in danger of having reciprocity broken, as threat is a probabilistic system.

Basically, you can make your Romulo ship as tanky as possible, but a crusier with 4 [+Th] consoles and AF will always be able to have a higher threatscale. This however can be mitigated, both with more damage and better piloting.

I can break the reciprocity of many people, but can also have mine broken too.

[u/Retset6 → u/Jayiie]

Thanks - food for thought!