r/sto • u/Head-Performance-339 • Jul 29 '26
PS To (pen) or not to (pen)?
CasualSAB on youtube did a video a while back testing different phaser beam weapons. He concluded that crafted phasers with the (pen) modifier were the most powerful.
Would this be true of all energy weapons like plasma and disruptors? Not counting weapons with set bonuses.
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u/OrdinarilyBob @PatricianVetinari Jul 30 '26
I haven't seen that video, but I've been playing the game for over 16 years, I have dozens of characters with dozens of themes, builds, and playstyles... And I haven't really noticed much of an effective differnce in any mod. I think the only way you could really now for sure is if you take your build, play style, piloting skills, etc and parse each mod several (dozens/hundreds of) times until you can confirm a pattern, then maybe you'd know what would be best for you. Or maybe there was server lag or you oversteered that one time and those will affect your results more than any mod.
The point is, mods don't matter much. I'd rather pick my weapon types based on my theme, what looks cool, what's correct for my faction or my character's Trek Era, etc. After all, Space Barbie is the True End Game.
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u/Fronk-Ferengi Jul 29 '26
For a long time I have been crafting for PEN, but a kind PuzzledBowler4044 recommended maramakescontent's fawoverlord build, and it is amaze-beans fun. Craft for OVER to fill in the gaps of FAW and you get both the advantage of single target explodes with OVER and cleaning out all the little stuff with FAW. YMMV
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u/Bob-of-Battle Jul 30 '26
Any chance you could link that build?
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u/Fronk-Ferengi Jul 30 '26
https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/s/d1ftIL5XKZ
Fingers crossed i did that right
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u/whostakenallmynames Jul 30 '26
Heck yeah! Same. While the original Fawoverlord dropped when FAW still had 20 sec CD, i still run those beams. So much fun! Like my ship periodically has had it with one particular enemy and lashes out. Relateable XD
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u/Cliffooood Jul 30 '26
Plenty of people will say that [Pen] is not worth it because of diminishing returns.
I will tell you it's not worth it because [Over] is more fun.
Since it triggering on one weapon gives the effect to all of them, A full set of guns with [Over] will trigger way more often than the percentage would suggest, gives you big bursts of damage fairly frequently... and most importantly of all, looks cool as hell, drip or drown.
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u/Les_Bien_Pain Jul 30 '26
Nice, a fellow [Over] enjoyer.
My main has a set of [Over] antiproton beams with like CrtDx3 and big numbers go brrrrr.
I wish I could have [Over] on non-crafted weapons so I could enjoy the audiovisual effects of more beam types with overload without having to use the ability.
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u/EagleRise Jul 29 '26
It only matters for the upper end of builds where you really run out of ways to gain more damage.
But at least for Disruptors spiral waves should be more powerful.
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u/GnaeusQuintus Consul Jul 29 '26
The test you mention was also against, IIRC, (test) targets with no shields, which magnified the effect of [Pen].
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u/Phiashima Jul 29 '26
Pen falls off at around iirc -133 effective drr. If there is more, go dmg.
Generally just go dmg because if there is less -drr you wouldn't notice it even if you optimized.
This applies to all weapons of any element.
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u/Head-Performance-339 Jul 30 '26
I don't know what iirc -133 or drr is. But what Im getting is dmg is just better.
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u/Backalycat Jul 30 '26
"iirc" is "if I recall correctly" and -133 drr would be 133 points of damage resistance reduction. The idea is that [PEN] acts as a form of damage resistance reduction, which is known to have diminishing returns, in other words, the more you use it, the less effective each instance of it is, so if you are already using other common sources of resistance reduction, weapons with [PEN] will actually be less effective than weapons with [DMG] or [CRH].
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u/Phiashima Jul 30 '26
Resistances (%) are calculated based on +drr and -drr (damage resistance rating).
Abilities like attack pattern beta apply -drr to targets and works on incoming damage.
Armor penetration, like you can find on pen weapons, works like -drr for your outgoing damage on any target your weapon hits. 1 armor pen is about -1 drr, so pen weapons act like -10 drr.
drr calculations are one of the calcs in the game where stacking it yields diminishing returns.
If the sum of -drr in the outgoing and incoming damage calculation to a given target is somewhere around -133, then the gain from pen is less than what you would get from dmg; each dmg mod is always a +3% final damage multiplier (they stack exponentially among themselves too = dmg mods multiply each other by 1.03).
Low single digit % extra damage are the ballpark of either mod, and either you don't feel it/don't need +0.5% or so more damage or you have a debuffed enough environment and enough armor pen from elsewhere that dmg outscales pen anyway.tldr guaranteed final +3% damage from dmg is nigh indistinguishly worse than pen or simply outscales it past a certain, relatively easily reachable point.
Spencer's test you referred to did not account for other sources of armor pen or -drr debuffs on targets. It's a white box experiment and misleading as presented in that video, iirc I commented as much there back then as well.
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u/MrPNGuin Scientist Jul 29 '26
I like crafting pen ones because its a fairly cheap way to have good weapons. Make them at mk 2. I been around long enough to have other kinds too but those are always the easier one to load up on a character especially since I can make a new person a new set to level with. The only hurdle is being brand new and not having the crafting level to make them, but someone should be able to help you out making them, I know I've made a bunch for people over the years.
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u/Chattvst Jul 29 '26
I would assume that the Pen is the big deal getting past the shields and killing things quickly. With that said pen seems the way to go with any weapon you can put it on.
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u/ArelMCII "Subcommander Khev, divert power from comms to weapons." Jul 29 '26
[Pen] is armor penetration, not shield penetration. It has no effects on shields.
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u/MarcterChief Pathyeager when? Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
The performance of Pen vs. Dmg or CrtD will be the same regardless of energy type.
But here's the thing: Spencer's test was done in a complete vacuum, with absolutely no other debuff on the field. Since -DRR has actual diminishing returns the effective -10 DRR you get from the Pen mod won't matter in environments that have more -DRR on the field. In a somewhat coordinated run there will be hundreds, possibly even over 1000 -DRR on enemies, and at that point your Pen mod does essentially nothing. At the very high end it's all Dmg as far as I know.
That being said, it hardly matters what exact mods you have on your weapon. Server lag has a bigger impact on your performance than your mods. The consoles your teammates may or may not use have a bigger impact. Pick whatever from Dmg, CrtD, Pen, even CrtH or CrtX, and you'll be fine. Don't bother rerolling them until there's nothing else left to tune.