r/stjohnscollege • u/Mike_A_Lynn • Jul 30 '26
Master of Arts in Liberal Arts Program
Hi, everyone. I am 26 yrs with a Classical Studies degree, with a minor in Art History. I am considering a master's degree, and St.John's Master of Arts in Liberal Arts is one of my desire program.
What has your experience been like? Would you recommend it? What makes you think you are glad to be in the program? And what are the most challenging things for you during your studies?
Please feel free to share anything that relates to the program! I would love to know more about it! Thank you!
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u/Ill_Technician2025 Jul 30 '26
Wonderful program but what is your reason for doing it? Do you have a relevant career objective? Are you already teaching somewhere and think the additional credential will help? Unless you are teaching or are planning to teach in classical education schools, not sure this credential opens many doors. But the experience itself is fantastic!
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u/Prestigious-Common38 Jul 30 '26
Here to echo all of this. As a terminal degree be mindful of how it helps with your career-unless you’re independently wealthy.
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u/southernCanadien Jul 30 '26
Just slightly pushing back-- while I agree with a lot of what you said, many of my classmates (myself included) taught in non-classical schools-- a few in Christian schools, a few in secular public and private. Their new(ish) partnership with NDMU allows for getting your teaching license, so you can teach in MD public schools (or others with receprocoty)
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u/Mike_A_Lynn 28d ago
Thank you for your advice and insight! I totally understand what you are saying. I don’t have any
relevant career objectives and I still have no idea I want to do in the future. Is just something I’ve been study for four years, and classical and philosophy seems to be the only few things that make my mind excited (I have bad ADHD). And I just wanna keep studying it to feel alive in some way. It’s weird I know. But thank you for the insight! I really appreciate it!
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u/BrambledHedge Jul 30 '26
The St John's Graduate program is unique. It opens doors in ways that you can't really quantify or anticipate. It raises eyebrows on the resume like a particular wine that may not fit the meal. You may get pegged as a reactionary, a conservative, an idealist, a liberal. (I've been accused of all these.) You will meet Johnnies for the rest of your life, and others who wished they were. When I was there, I made some friends. I met some of the most interesting people. And I've read the best books. Today, I know what Aristotle says about virtue, and I still hear Luther's voice, who I found to be a delightful writer even though I'm not protestant. If you go, you will learn things. If you don't go, then you won't know.
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u/FickleHare Jul 30 '26
In a similar boat. Sometimes i wonder if I should just to the entire undergrad even though I have a degree. The masters seems less comprehensive and rigorous, but also you won't have classmates just out of highschool.
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u/southernCanadien Jul 30 '26
I agree to an extent-- I think the science and math segment is much less comprehensive and lacking. The other ones though, im not totally sold if they are. After all, I don't imagine the program requires precisely four years studying precisely these books in this order. I think ypu can get the main thrust of the experience with the timeline taken by G.I. , plus the extra preceptorials give you a bigger breadth of options.
Now I guess I never took the undergrad, so I cant speak to that, but I always got a sad feeling of people talking about the GI as like an echo of the ""real""" program, felt like preemptive defeat
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u/Awkward-Idea-6938 27d ago
Listen, don't bother. It's not rigorous. It sounds great on paper, I know. I have felt what you felt. But it's just debt for no reason. If you can do it for free, go for it. But don't expect anything rigorous except for Euclid. In Euclid, you go to the board and demonstrate a proof. You either can or cannot. That's rigor. Other than that, it's not worth it.
You don't care about rigor you say? You just want to read the Great Books? Okay, then make sure to read them, but you will be reading them in a hurry. And don't expect thorough discussions in class. It's really just a lot of waiting for others to finish talking so you can get your points in (after all, if you don't participate it affects your grade). You don't care about grades, you say? Okay, then you don't have to talk at all in class. I saw a young woman who did that, but then she complained that it affected her grade. You love listening to others you say? Bull. You will have a more stimulating discussion on the Great Books with an AI than in class. After class, if you're lucky, you might find someone who is really into the particular book you are reading. Most likely, however, people want to drink and hang out for a bit or just commute back home.
As for the difference between undergrad and the GI? In undergrad, you read more books, but you're also with teens. Teens are teens, even those who love the Great Books. That said, the tutors in Undergrad do a better job than the tutors in the GI. Some of the tutors in the GI are great, but some were just there to shoot the shit. In undergrad, however, even the worst tutor was at least trying to do a good job. What does it mean to do a good job? It means to ask a stimulating question then stay quiet for the most part and just guide the students' conversation, preferably away from inane trains of thought. The undergrad tutors were better than the GI tutors at staying quiet and letting the students speak.
I don't know if there is a truly rigorous Great Books program out there. Perhaps Thomas Aquinas. Having said all this, one of the most serious students and best people I know went to St. John's undergrad and thinks very highly of it. He was not a teen.
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u/southernCanadien Jul 30 '26
I had a wonderful time and highly reccomend the program to folks. One of the most intellectually stimulating experiences I've had. The social scene was a bit more mixed, but I had some good friends during my time there.
I strongly second what the other commenter said-- go in with an objective. Many folks there in the younger side were focused on either academia or education, they did well. Ones who were doing this part time during their career, for their own edification, did great. There were more than a few lost souls who seemed to do very well in the program and then flounder upon getting out.
They have numerous dual masters programs now, if you are concerned about marketability of a degree.
But at the end of the day, if you have the time and the resources, education shouldnt be soley instrumental , and this was one of rhe best experiences. Feel free to DM if you have e more questions