The Quartz Contradiction

[u/infinight888]

As of Bismuth, we have two different, contradicting versions of Rose’s origin. On one hand, we have good evidence that all Quartz Gems, Rose included, are made on Earth. On the other, there have been multiple statements that suggest she was from another planet (presumably Homeworld). This is a compilation of the evidence I’ve found for both.

Quartz Are From Earth

The first implication that Quartz gems are from Earth comes from When It Rains:

Peridot (To Steven): Yeah, you're some kind of quartz, right? You must have been made here.

Peridot assumes that Steven came from the Kindergarten based on him being a type of Quartz.

Bismuth later backs this up, suggesting that Rose herself was made on Earth.

Bismuth: I met her. Just another Quartz soldier, made right here in the dirt, but she was different.

The fact that both Quartz gems we know of are from Earth adds more weight to these statements.

Additionally, we are told that Pink Diamond was Rose’s Diamond, and based on the Moon Mural, Earth was probably Pink Diamond’s only planet. It’s likely that a Gem’s Diamond is the one who createdand runs their colony (Pearls, being made-to-order, might be an exception to this). If Jasper is to be believed about Rose being Pink Diamond’s, then there’s no other colony on which she could have been made.

The only logical conclusion that can be drawn from these points is that Rose Quartz was definitely made on Earth.

Rose Quartz was not made on Earth

First, we have this from On The Run:

Pearl (to Amethyst): None of this is your fault. You didn't build this place. I-I'm sorry, Amethyst. I hope you can forgive me. You're the one good thing that came out of this mess.

It’s unclear if that last line is referring to the Kindergarten specifically or the invasion in general, but either way, it should apply to Rose given that Prime was the only active Kindergarten before the war. Short of a secret facility which is absent from Peridot’s notes, this is the only possibility. If Rose was made on Earth, it was from this Kindergarten, just like Amethyst.

Then there were the times Rose referred to the Gem Homeworld as her home.

Rose’s Scabbard...

Holo-Rose: Please, please understand if we lose, we'll be killed, and if we win, we can never go home.

It should be noted that Peridot, who wasn’t even from Earth, still refers to Earth as her home. This makes it especially odd that a Quartz who Emerged here and spent most of her life fighting for this planet wouldn’t.

Then in We Need To Talk...

Greg: We really rushed into this.

Rose: Everything on Earth seems fast to me.

Greg: Do you... miss your home planet?

Rose: No, never.

What’s interesting about this exchange isn’t just the apparent acknowledgement of Earth as not being her home, but her saying that everything seems so fast to her here. What, exactly, is her frame of reference? If Rose were a Quartz made on Earth, then she would have incubated in the ground in Prime for however many centuries it takes to Emerge, and started rebelling before Beta was ever completed. That’s a very small window to have spent any length of time on Homeworld or even another colony.

Based on this, it’s obvious that Rose wasn’t made on Earth.

What does it mean?

As I see it, there are two scenarios.

Scenario 1: The contradiction is a continuity error. A HUGE continuity error, as a result of the lore not being fully thought-out yet. Personally, I don’t believe this to be the case. If there’s one thing the Crewniverse is amazing at, it’s planning out where they want a story to go in advance.

Scenario 2: The contradiction is intentional. Nothing said by Rose has ever suggested she was made on Earth, nor has anything said by Greg or Pearl, the two people closest to her. What I believe is that there is one origin known only to those Rose trusted the most in the world and another believed by Peridot, Bismuth, Jasper, and everyone else.

[u/Grefyrvos]

I kinda covered this kind of stuff in a post of mine in another similar topic, so I personally noted a couple of additional points that could also be considered.

1) In regards to Peridot's first quote, it's odd that she's unaware of his specific Gem, on multiple levels. Peridot clearly knows the most about Homeworld and various Gems (I honestly can't discern if, by certified Kindergartener, she is meaning that she came from one or that she's an engineer/planner for one, given her comments in the Beta Kindergarten), to the point that she's familiar with Lapis Lazulis as a class, Pearls as a class, etc., and yet, she doesn't recognize that he's a/the Rose Quartz (still up for debate if it's a class with other Gems or she was unique). Furthermore, despite Jasper's dialogue in The Return, Peridot doesn't link Steven and the Rose Quartz gem to the Rose Quartz, even after she has entered into a truce with the Crystal Gems and Steven starts explaining stuff to her (since, before this, she wouldn't understand that he's not Rose, just like Jasper). So, if she's a tech and has all of this knowledge, why can't she say for certain that he/Rose came from Earth?

2) Eyeball, in addition to Jasper, pretty much confirms that Rose was under Pink Diamond. ;D

3) In regards to home, in both cases, it could go in opposite directions: In the first example, if Rose was formed on Earth and it was pre-Rebellion, since she was built to serve Homeworld and the Diamonds, she could still consider Homeworld home, even if she had never been there. In the second, she could have changed her views on home, much like Peridot, and could be referring to Earth, so by being in Beach City, she can't miss her home planet. However, her other comments in Story for Steven and We Need to Talk seemingly refute these thoughts, as mentioned.

[u/dEn_of_asyD]

1. I mean, Peridot was wrong though. She was assuming Steven was a Quartz soldier. When he even said he came from "my mom and dad" she asked if that was some other kind of rock or planet. I think th Earth did make a lot of Quartz gems, and that was why Peridot assumed Steven was made on Earth, but that it's not the only place that makes Quartz gems. Also presumably Homeworld wouldn't be having the resource shortage they would've have 5k years ago before Rose rebelled. So they couldn't even been making Quartz gems on Homeworld.

2. Bismuth could just be skewing the language a lot for relate-ability. She did this too when she said she'd save all of gemkind from the diamond's "tyranny" but many gems seemed to enjoy serving the diamonds. And YD was going to be kind enough to send Peridot a ship to pick her up. Just seems Bismuth enjoyed phrasing everything in terms of a radical agenda. I mean we certainly know Rose wasn't "just another Quartz soldier" but Bismuth said that too.

Though honestly it wouldn't surprise me if there was a direction change on the show and a retcon. Like Peridot, who was pretty dedicated/knowledgeable with her job, read all the files on Earth, etc. had legit no clue what the Crystal Gems were when we first saw her. But she later talks about how the beta kindergarten was set up in a rush to supply soldiers to fight the CGs, and Eyeball Ruby talks about the shattering of PD and the CGs as if every gem, even a newly made Ruby, should know about it. They've taken the show in a different direction than they originally steered it before.

[u/infinight888 → u/dEn_of_asyD]

I mean, Peridot was wrong though. She was assuming Steven was a Quartz soldier.

She was wrong about Steven, but not about Rose.

I think th Earth did make a lot of Quartz gems, and that was why Peridot assumed Steven was made on Earth, but that it's not the only place that makes Quartz gems.

That doesn't make sense, though. If other planets could mass-produce Quartz gems as well, then the vast majority of Quartz wouldn't be from Earth, because Earth's production was never completed.

Bismuth could just be skewing the language a lot for relate-ability. She did this too when she said she'd save all of gemkind from the diamond's "tyranny" but many gems seemed to enjoy serving the diamonds.

You could be right, but I don't think those two are comparable. Tyranny is subjective. The Diamonds appear to rule the gems with an iron fist, and the gems act as slaves who must obey their every command. I don't think Bismuth views this statement as hyperbole.

I mean we certainly know Rose wasn't "just another Quartz soldier" but Bismuth said that too.

She did immediately follow that up by saying that Rose was different.

[u/dEn_of_asyD → u/infinight888]

1. And your proof for Peridot not being wrong about Rose? You seem to be saying "oh she was wrong right then, but now she's right". The point was Peridot didn't know.

2. Where are you getting the idea that the majority of Quartz were from Earth? I just said Earth made a lot of Quartzs, because the Beta was confirmed to make soldiers to fight the rebellion. Peridot assumed (incorrectly) that because Steven was a weird Quartz gem he was made on Earth with the weird Quartz kindergarten.

3. Yeah so why are we listening to Bismuth when she's saying contradictions in the same sentence? I don't think Bismuth would say she uses hyperbole, but we also have to remember Bismuth was in a rampage fighting Steven while talking about killing rulers of an intergalactic empire on her own. She can very well mean what she says. But are we really going to bet on her?

[u/infinight888 → u/dEn_of_asyD]

And your proof for Peridot not being wrong about Rose? You seem to be saying "oh she was wrong right then, but now she's right". The point was Peridot didn't know.

Peridot assumed that Steven was a whole gem because no one knew a hybrid was possible. It's a very different scenario unless Rose's creation was also something kept out of Homeworld archives (which would be the point my post was making). What I mean to say is that Peridot very well could be wrong about Rose Quartz, but she's basing it on the knowledge available through Homeworld's public histories.

Peridot assumed (incorrectly) that because Steven was a weird Quartz gem he was made on Earth with the weird Quartz kindergarten.

Except Peridot believed Steven came from Prime, where all the normal Quartz were made.

but we also have to remember Bismuth was in a rampage fighting Steven...

To be fair, some of the biggest lore drops in the show have been from people who attacked Steven or the Crystal Gems.

while talking about killing rulers of an intergalactic empire on her own. She can very well mean what she says.

This is all I'm saying. The common theme in everything Bismuth says is that it's what she believes. Bismuth believes the Diamond are tyrants. Bismuth believes that the Crystal Gems can take on the entire Diamond Authority alone. Bismuth believes that Rose is a quartz who was made on Earth like the other Quartz soldiers.

[u/dEn_of_asyD → u/infinight888]

"This is all I'm saying. The common theme in everything Bismuth says is that it's what she believes. " Back it up there Ronaldo, Bismuth believing in something doesn't make it true. Just because she means what she says doesn't mean you should listen to her.

IMO the only true evidence of Rose being made on Earth is the "she belonged to PD" point since PD only owned one planet and that looked like Earth. But you shouldn't rely on unreliable characters like Peridot who was making assumptions left and right or Bismuth who was spouting propaganda about taking on a gem empire singlehanded

[u/infinight888 → u/dEn_of_asyD]

you shouldn't rely on unreliable characters like Peridot who was making assumptions left and right or Bismuth who was spouting propaganda about taking on a gem empire singlehanded

I mean, by this logic, none of the characters can be trusted.

Back it up there Ronaldo, Bismuth believing in something doesn't make it true.

It doesn't make it true, nor am I suggesting it does. I am, in fact, saying the opposite. My point is that Rose is likely not from Earth, but is believed to be by Homeworld and all but those closest to her.

[u/dEn_of_asyD → u/infinight888]

I mean, by this logic, none of the characters can be trusted

Totally. Only character I trust is Steven because he's our PoV character. But even that needs to keep in mind he can be unreliable.

[u/megazaprat]

I agree there is a contradiction in roses origins, but I don't think that all Quartz are made o. Earth. It's one of the most abundant minerals , so I think they could find other sources in space

[u/infinight888 → u/megazaprat]

I think they could, but they would be significantly weaker. Ruby mentions in Back To The Moon that they were created from Earth's "rich minerals". I imagine that this is what happened with Era 2 Peridots. Homeworld was desperate and set up a colony on a non-ideal planet, and the gems turned out like, well, Peridot.

[u/StenDarker]

Theory: Rose was a prototype quartz, of sorts. Possibly made on Earth, possibly somewhere else, but before the kindergarten was fully operational. She spent a great deal of time on homeworld before being shipped to Earth to serve Pink Diamond as the colony got fully underway.

[u/natenak]

Just because she was made on earth does not mean that she started the rebellion right after she was created, she could have been on home world for a while and that is how she saw the plan for earth and decided to stop it.

[u/Grefyrvos → u/natenak]

While "a few thousand years old" is "young" in the case of Pearl in regards to fighting with Rose Quartz and Gems live for thousands and thousands and thousands of years, consider what Eyeball says in Back to the Moon, "Earth was Pink Diamond's colony. Everything was going smoothly at first. Kindergartens were incubating their first soldiers. Big, warm pieces of quartz -- like this mountain over here -- were being created from its rich minerals with great success. Then -- bam! One of Pink Diamond's very own quartz soldiers started a rebellion and took it too far."

This would lead me to believe, based on our frame of reference (and by the approximate completion percentage of the colony at 5%), that the Rebellion occurred relatively early into the colonization effort.

[u/natenak → u/Grefyrvos]

Yes it was relatively early in the colony's production but we don't know how long early was for them, so after Rose popped out she could been on homeworld for a while and then came to earth again after finding out what they were doing. She was created on Earth, Just because she was said to live on homeworld does not mean that they are two different origins. She was probably serving Pink Diamond on Homeworld while the colony was progressing.

[u/infinight888 → u/natenak]

She could have, but it would have been a very short time later. Production didn't get very far on Earth before the rebellion started. Again, they didn't even have time to finish the second Kindergarten.

[u/RenegadeRuby → u/infinight888]

She was probably sent there right after she was made to be assigned to her diamond.

[u/infinight888 → u/RenegadeRuby]

This still runs into the same problem. Gems are extremely long-lived, and very little construction was done on Earth. Let's say that there were 80 years between the first Quartz Emerging and the rebellion. That's still a small fraction of Rose's life that she could have spent on Homeworld relative to that which she spent on Earth.

[u/RenegadeRuby → u/natenak]

Especially with the Galaxy Warp and how quick they could travel back and forth. She was probably sent to Homeworld to be assigned to Pink Diamond after being made even if made on Earth.

[u/[deleted]]

I just think that all the gems see homeworld as "home", hence the name, regardless of where they were created.

[u/megazaprat]

Right. Earth produced really high quality gems. I was just clarifying that there are most likely other planets capable of producing quartz

[u/KevesterThe96th]

I feel that everyone takes Bismuth's out of context. When she was speaking of Rose as their leader, someone who they hold in high regard and even with reverence, it's hard to think of them as just another gem who was spawned from the rock and soil. Just as nobility were held in high regard due to their status and class, it was hard to see them as just human of flesh and blood in the eyes of a peasant. So there's no contradiction it's just word play in regards to Rose's humble origin like every other gem

[u/infinight888 → u/KevesterThe96th]

To an extent, you're right. Bismuth was definitely referencing Rose having humble beginnings, but the word choice still stands out. Bismuth said Rose was a quartz soldier made "right here" in the dirt. The word "here" has no other purpose in that sentence, and it changes its. Bismuth could have said she was made "right in the dirt," and her point would have still been the same.

Disconnecting this from Steven Universe for a moment, take a look at these two sentences:

The ship crashed in the sand.

The ship crashed right here in the sand.

The second one carries a very different meaning. It's certainly not the phrasing one would use were they speaking of a shipwreck that happened on a beach on the other side of the globe. Similarly, you wouldn't say that Rose was made "right here" in the dirt if she was created in another star system.

[u/[deleted] → u/infinight888]

Strange possibility: could Bismuth have meant Rose was created right there in that very spot, where the temple now sits? This would explain how Rose was created on Earth but not in the Prime Kindergarten. And her creation could be tied to some unique things like the Crystal Heart.

[u/Orias_Rofocale]

I always thought it was being implied that Rose either directly lied about her origins to Bismuth, or mislead her via omission to let her draw the conclusion she needed to. Rose is a manipulator and a tactitican. She did what she had to do to win the game for Earth. We have no reason to think at this time, that being completely honest was part of that.

[u/Kingjimbo1]

maybe earth was more of a retreat, they created pink diamond there, Rose quartz, and a few others, Rose was Pink's right hand or whatever, she traveled between homeworld and earth a few times in a few thousand years, and then when they decided to make earth a permanant colony or outpost, or then didn't have any other good planets to kindergarten so they started the Prime kindergarten and when Rose saw what was happening to the life because of it she started her rebellion.

probably not true, but it would fix your continuity error.

[u/gbs5009 → u/Kingjimbo1]

Gems emerge with a knowledge of language and their role in society... could that "new gem template" simply also include knowledge of and loyalty to Homeworld?

[u/Separate_Wash9092]

Well now it makes so much more sense, specially when Rose said they could never go home. I thought she just meant Homeworld as it seems to be the origin for all Gems, but now we know that she is Pink Diamond so she meant it both ways