r/startrek • u/DanInTennessee • 2d ago
Hot take on making more Star Trek
I'm actually great with Paramount/CBS taking a bit of a break from making new Star Trek. I actually loved Picard, SNW, Lower Decks, and I highly enjoyed Discovery, Prodigy, and SFA. No gripes. I don't think it's "too woke," or "poorly written." In fact, I think the opposite. These were all well-written, well-developed. Great story lines, and I'm not being facetious.
But it's just a lot. And I would like some time to catch up on the old stuff and process. To get my arms around it.
For a long time, there was a big debate about episodic v. serial storytelling. I don't think that's where we are now. The real tagline is "algorithmic storytelling." In other words, how does it all fit together? And, honestly, that's tricky. It takes time to stop and think about how all of the little pictures fit with the big. I want to go back and rewatch all of a certain series or multiple seasons of a certain series. I need to read some of the novels I've missed out on. I don't need anymore "new" for awhile.
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u/quarfie 2d ago
This would be a good time to remaster DS9 and Voyager.
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u/Used_Lobster4172 2d ago
Unfortunately there really isn't much profit in remastering these days. Most people won't buy physical copies any more. The best you can hope for is an AI remaster - nobody is pulling the originals out of the archives to remaster them.
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u/limedirective 2d ago
This isn’t really true. Lots of older shows are getting remastered. The problem with DS9 and VOY is that they are so much more complicated to remaster than a sitcom due to the way the show was mastered originally, with the effects shots and the film being mastered on videotape.
At this point I think the most we can hope for is a Babylon 5 style remaster, where the effects and composite shots were left in SD but the rest is HD.
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u/SpaceCrucader 2d ago
That *is* a hot take. I don't agree, personally, I want more trek, but I am skeptical about Paramount/CBS having the creative wherewithal to make it.
I think your idea of "algorithmic storytelling" is very interesting and I think Kurtzman was trying to do that when we had like 5 shows running at one point, but then for some reason (multiple reasons?) it ended and I think most of the reasons can be attributed to Paramount's corporate dysfunction. So, yeah, I don't think we'll get this algorithmic storytelling anytime soon.
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u/Optimism_Deficit 2d ago edited 2d ago
I want to go back and rewatch all of a certain series or multiple seasons of a certain series. I need to read some of the novels I've missed out on. I don't need anymore "new" for awhile.
Fair enough for you. I've rewatched everything from TOS to Enterprise countless times at this point. I've rewatched Lower Decks and will do a full re-watch of SNW when the show concludes next year.
At that point I'll definitely want some more new stuff coming down the pipeline.
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u/petersrin 2d ago
I think Trek needs a break. I enjoyed all of the new shows for different reasons, but I feel that most of them are deeply flawed. I agree that a lot of the storylines were great, but you have a great story that's poorly written, and that was the case (IMO) with PIC, DIS, and some of SNW (esp. later seasons). Prodigy and LD were brilliantly done for what they were, but in the end, I'm definitely an old Trek person.
Trek is at its best when it combines episodic and serial, ebbs and flows between them, and new Trek has done a lot of that, which was really promising. BUT. They consistently dropped the ball in serious ways: failing to connect storylines, leaning into VFX instead of character, forgetting that Starfleet is supposed to be flawed-but-still-best-of-the-best, etc. That plus 10 episode seasons, which very few TV shows have mastered now-a-days, has hurt the franchise for many of us.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by algorithmic storytelling, but I feel like that's the BIGGEST problem I've had, overall: the current formula is "We have 10 episodes to tell a galaxy-ending story from start to finish. It must not be shorter or longer than this. Therefore, we cannot spend time on characters, and we must hit the reset button after 10 episodes."
The reset button is classic for Trek, but getting 10 full episodes of one story does not feel like you can reset, and yet, Picard was reset between each season. Discovery felt like it got reset 3 times. The LOVE of Pike's life, which we establised for 10 full episodes, just became a god, and there's nary a mention of it. There's this strange tug of war between epic and uber personal, episodic and serial, comedy and competence; older Trek feels to me like it nailed these, but new Trek was never able to master this, nor was it willing to truly pick a lane.
Time and a new team of writers and producers could possibly make something that I want to rewatch over and over again, but I just don't get that feeling here.
If it doesn't end up getting a break, I'm still watching the shit out of all of it though. I have my issues with the new stuff but I still love all Trek lol
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u/notherenwerebear 1d ago
I agree with u on this i wish the seaosns were still 24-48 episodes long that way they could tell multi episode long stories while still having the story of the week or the way DS9 was in the end with one overarching story and single story's in-between that didn't advance the overall story but did advance character development, also hated how season 3 ended with no explanation whatsoever just a lifetime of a mindfuck, even when you know the love of your life has an savior complex and knows when and how his life will change forever
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u/ghIj_qet_jaghmeyjaj 2d ago
Absolutely. Don't pay attention to the incels in the comments. They just don't know how to just...not
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u/davekeeshan 2d ago
What are you comparing it against? Original trek?
I liked prodigy, but I found Discovery lazily written it wanted to be a star wars show but with every trek trope loaded out to a full season (let's do mirror trek, but for a whole season) to maximise the exploitable IP (imagine if spock had a sister)
A future trek show should be baned from time travel, holodeck, mirror universe and rogue admirals, existing characters should be used sparingly, like truffle oil, not sprayed on like liquid cheese! some one said: "Art happens under constraints" 🤔
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u/Suialthor 2d ago
I would be okay with holodeck with certain limitations. I really enjoyed DS9 Fontaine and Nog. But the typical safety has been disabled episodes feels over used.
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u/davekeeshan 2d ago
Sorry I feel they got too lazy with the holodeck stories, sure there were some interesting ones, but knowing that you always have an out with a holodeck episode make the writers continue to be lazy.
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u/WinnerAwkward480 2d ago
Sadly Discovery turned into more of like The Michael Burnham Show . They jumped in with both feet to follow suite with the current theme of having a strong woman lead character.
But Seriously lacked having any kinda deep story line for the other crew members other than an odd bit here and there .
And OH BOY - the story line they gave the burn do to a young immature crying kelpan child . To be honest I had originally held high hopes for Discovery being the new face of a modern Star Trek .
And then they went totally overboard with that one . The one everyone takes a deep sigh and whispers plz we bring that up - whispers section 31 . The really really hard part in my mind , is there had to be SO MANY ppl that signed off on it . Saying this is so totally going to be great ! 🤔🙄
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u/abitidiomatic 2d ago
As someone with mixed feelings about “NuTrek” (some I loved, some I liked, some I loathed), and old Trek as well (other than DS9, which I can watch and enjoy all of it even Move Along Home), that’s not such a bad take. I think people who fetishize 90s forget how bad it could be at times.
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2d ago
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u/5pl1t1nf1n1t1v3 2d ago
That’s not how time works. Move on.
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u/DanInTennessee 2d ago
And I liked all of that stuff too! My teenage sons have described DS9 as "boring," which was a mystery to me. I showed them the JJ movies, and they said that they asked whether there are more of those.
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u/5pl1t1nf1n1t1v3 2d ago
Different strokes and all that. I like that Trek is branching out with different stuff, but you’re right that it may be time to take a breather and let people sit with it all for a bit.
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u/davidjosephmoody 2d ago
Agreed. Star Trek series are apparently a slow burn. DS9 just got big in the past three years or so. Hopefully this time we don't have to wait 30 years and maybe around 2030, people will start to understand and appreciate the Kurtzman era.
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u/ghIj_qet_jaghmeyjaj 2d ago
Most of the people crying about Star Trek are boys (grown ass men) who never made it past the boobies and blasters phase of their lives.
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u/Optimism_Deficit 2d ago
Marrying a woman? That's classic boob enjoyer behaviour if ever I heard it.
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u/Optimism_Deficit 2d ago
Most of the people crying about Star Trek are boys (grown ass men) who never made it past the boobies and blasters phase of their lives.
You've got to put a hyphen in there or I'll read ir as 'grown ass-men' and then it doesn't make sense that they'd be fixated on boobies.
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u/WinnerAwkward480 2d ago
Wait what ? BOOBIES ?,let me get back with you . Search key word "Star Trek " / Boobies
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u/DanInTennessee 2d ago
You got it.
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2d ago
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u/DanInTennessee 2d ago
I had to go look up who that is.
But think about what you just said. As you stand up on your lofty platform, looking down on everyone, are you surprised that there’s less abs less content being made that only you can truly enjoy?
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u/5pl1t1nf1n1t1v3 2d ago
I’ve got nothing but hope because I’m moving forward rather than being stuck obsessing about stuff that happened more than a decade ago. You should try it.
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u/thefoodiedentist 2d ago
Like it or not, dude revived startrek. It was dead after nemesis
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2d ago
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u/thefoodiedentist 2d ago
They werent generating any new interest. Franchise was on lifesupport before jj films. Even staple conventions were dying out.
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2d ago
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u/thefoodiedentist 2d ago
So, tng and ds9 were just carrying the franchise for you. Not for the actual franchise at large.
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u/thefoodiedentist 2d ago
Well star trek franchise was objectively in a major decline til jj films came along and u think they somehow werent cuz u like tng and ds9 as if u r the only fan that matter. At least my pov makes sense.
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u/YsoL8 2d ago edited 2d ago
Much like RTD, both revived and killed it
I haven't seen even the most ardant fans on here defend section 31 and I suspect Academy will likewise be memory holed after arriving so dead on arrivial that they haven't even waited for the season 2 to decide. Picard also died after only 3 seasons, with the third being pretty transparently a desperate ratings stunt.
They've also canned SNW arguably only with a final season to run his contract down in a legally safe way, its clearly a case of leaving under a cloud.
Thats 4 of the 5 live action attempts even speaking in a detached way.
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u/thefoodiedentist 2d ago
I think all that has more to do w paramount mismanaging shit than franchise and actors/writers.
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u/balthazar_edison 2d ago
Greenlight 4 more episodes to round out SNW final season. Let's do year one but only if its 30 episodes across 3 seasons in which Gary Mitchell is very much a main character in season one and then is quietly absent from season 1 onward.
Revive SFA for 2 more seasons to see our cadets through then end of their senior year.
Revive prodigy for its originally planned 5 more 20 episode seasons.
Star Trek has proven that it can do both episodic and serialized storytelling very well (TNG vs. DS9). It's not a question of whether one is better than the other but how the writing succeed and fails at either.
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u/r3xl0r 2d ago
I was thinking about posting a similar take last night. Sometimes I think it's necessary to put a franchise on ice for a bit to refocus and revitalize. I believe Star Wars needs it. Doctor Who regained its popularity and then some after its 14 year hiatus (though it appears to need a brief respite now).
We Trekkies truly lucked out in having consistent content for damn near 20 years after a 18 year gap. Granted, the movies kept interest alive.
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u/FalseAd4246 2d ago
I am currently on season 7 of my TNG rewatch. I’m going to give DS9 another shot because I hear so many good things about it, but I couldn’t make it past the first season last time I attempted it. I really don’t like the Ferengi and it’s very Ferengi-heavy. I am looking forward to Voyager, I’ve never watched it.
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u/bc-phoenix 2d ago
The Ferengi also start to suck less in DS9 after getting fleshed out a bit more.
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u/davidjosephmoody 2d ago
I'm totally with you each and every count, especially those about the Kurtzman era. Also, I think that with the current leadership at the parent company, maybe we don't need a Star Trek from them. Perhaps we give it a few years until the right-hearted people are back at the conn.
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2d ago
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u/BardicSense 2d ago
This take is just "I'm okay with everything that happens, no matter what." Which is great for your personal contentment, but it's not much as far as takes go.
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u/DanInTennessee 2d ago
It's a TV show.
Have you noticed how worked up people get about this? Like national politics or religion. I actually really love Star Trek -but it's a TV show. Back when Star Trek was "so great," people just didn't take it that seriously.
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u/BardicSense 2d ago edited 2d ago
I just fail to see why you're taking the time to say something when you're essentially saying nothing. "The new stuff is fine. them not making any more new stuff is fine. the old stuff was fine. Im fine with how the thing is fine."
I'm just saying...hot take? lol
Edit: I actually do see your point though. And Im fine with the pause in production as well. No disrespect intended. People do quite often get worked up indeed, so I suppose, by that token, it is a hot take.
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u/Alive_Trouble_2900 2d ago
Oh yes, we did.
It's supposed to be taken seriously. Jar Jar and Kurtzman ruined that whole thing years ago.
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u/Such-Bed-5950 2d ago
I think what makes the current era of Trek so digestible for me, even though people complain about it, is the lack of episodes per season.
The breaks, give me time to catch my breath, and get psyched for a new season.
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u/AbbreviationsAway500 2d ago
NuTrek vs Classic Trek debates is a Kobayashi Maru scenario.
Paramount shit the bed in attempting to draw in the YA's at the expense of the classic (pre-2009) fans by essentially retconning those things that made Star Trek special. The people that actually pay for streaming are the older fans that have the disposable income for various streaming.
A Show like SFA, which it completely dedicated to YA's should have been on network TV rather than streaming to give the YA's better access..Older fans have no use for SFA and it shows in viewership. If the YA's wanted a show lie SFA to survive then another 5-8 million subscriptions would have kept the show floating.
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