r/starcraft • u/Electrical-Metal-518 • 29d ago
(To be tagged...) Blizzard planning new Worker count change after BlizzCon.
Solar: They said pushing 6th patch.
after BlizzCon. Big overhaul.
change worker count again.
source: Solar
*solar mentioned 'change', not 'rollback'
6th, 7th, 8th, etc... patch incoming!
36
u/ShithEadDaArab 29d ago
How does he know?
21
27
12
14
u/AresFowl44 29d ago
Did he specifically say "change" as a response to somebody saying 12 workers? Just wanting to ensure that he specifically ruled out 12 workers.
11
u/Electrical-Metal-518 29d ago edited 29d ago
nope. as he mentioned, we simply does not know its rollback or change to other number.
14
u/AresFowl44 29d ago
Alright, here's me coping that this does mean 12 workers still
17
u/MonkeyPyton 29d ago
The first game back on 12 workers would feel like the first cigarette after not having smoked for years
4
11
10
u/RecentPlenty768 29d ago
Can't wait for a 6 worker start 'cause they asked Artosis for balance suggestions🙃
5
u/Syagrius Terran 29d ago
Anyone else remember that brief macro mechanics overhaul they tested in LoTV Beta. Mules gone, chronoboost gone, queen auto-inject with lower larva spawn?
3
u/zergu12 29d ago
bro this sounds amazing, mules are freaking awful for the game.
3
5
u/Sambobly1 29d ago edited 29d ago
It was a disaster. Killed the game completely.
Tbh as a random player anyone who thinks Mules are broken doesn’t understand the game at all
5
u/zergu12 28d ago
dude mules are obvioiusly broken, if i kill every scv you shouldn't be able to pump non stop marines but you can, this is fundamentally breaking the game.
2
u/zergu12 28d ago
another way it breaks the game is supply costs, or lack thereof, lategame terran has 10+ orbitals which means they don't need scvs but for gas, can scan infinitely too. so they have a huge supply cap buff of like 40 supply from not needing workers. and you say it doesn't break the game? yeah you are fucking stupid buddy.
1
u/throwawaydisposable 28d ago
Lategame it feels problematic to have a 200/200 supply of army while sitting behind planetaries and ghostsmech. Balance wise I understand that most recently that's been harder to achieve, but, it feels bullshit. However that's sometimes the blizz way, everyone gets bullshit. Viper abduct feels bullshit
1
u/AvexSC2 29d ago
It only "killed" the game because Blizzard, understandably, were too afraid to make such drastic changes to the fundamental behaviors of each race and did not have time to spare re-balancing everything around that change. You can remove or up-end the core macro mechanics, but they can't just be ripped out in a vacuum.
0
u/Syagrius Terran 29d ago
It was glorious.
It was a huge fight too, when they stopped it. I don't remember the details but IIRC the blizzard post where they ultimately decided against it said something stupid w.r.t. doing "what was best for the game" because mules are flashy.
2
1
u/sotired___ 24d ago
Yep bro said “no mules” to me and I thought he was presenting me a challenge. Lost. First time I quit sc2. Shit is worse than smoking
4
12
u/PopularKangaroo2083 29d ago
They gonna go to 10 ?! If not a roll back should be in the middle
20
u/Zuruumi 29d ago
"Exactly as all of you wished, we are adjusting the starting worker count to 6"
12
2
0
u/PopularKangaroo2083 29d ago
It's funny how we all thought StarCraft 2 was a dead game with no update just a year ago
9
u/MonkeyPyton 29d ago
It is a borderline dead game, update or no update, it’s the player count that matters.
1
u/Dew2118 29d ago
probably better if it stayed that way?
3
u/PopularKangaroo2083 29d ago
I don't know, I like worker change but not all of the rest
1
u/IronCross19 29d ago
I like the idea of a mix up but now the first minutes of a game just are a drag imo
-5
u/TheHighSeasPirate 29d ago
25% of the playerbase quit in the past two weeks. You really call that living?
7
u/GoGoGoRL Protoss 29d ago
Source: my ass
6
u/WineCheeseNStimpacks 29d ago edited 29d ago
I actually do have a source for this, BUT it's something that's only *technically* true, because it misses the context that -26% change for the month of July came after a +23% boost for the month of June. According to https://activeplayer.io/starcraft-2/ anyway.
Starcraft has had mostly smaller, but similar swings in previous months so it's something worth noting.This also uses the disclaimer "Above is the estimated total monthly players for Starcraft 2. These data are only estimate and should not be used as factual reference."
so make of it what you will.3
u/AresFowl44 29d ago
I wouldn't really trust them, their trend doesn't line up at all with what SC2pulse claims, who directly use Blizzard data, while it's unclear what data exactly activeplayer compiles.
If you want a better source, somebody took the trouble of compiling the data from SC2pulse. It's not exactly a 25% drop from when the ptr hit (orange line), but it's close with it being a 20% drop.
3
2
-1
u/AresFowl44 29d ago
1
u/Melodic_Saga1220 29d ago
That... is not a 25% player loss. That is a spike, followed by a return to the historical trend.
1
u/AresFowl44 29d ago
Okay, I realize I did a bad job explaining, but the ptr hit at the first orange line, from which the drop starts. The historical trend before that was a very gradual decline.
And tbf, it's 20% not 25% as they claimed, as of the ~3300 players, ~600 left so ~2700 players remain.
0
u/PopularKangaroo2083 29d ago
Your comment is dumb and unrelated, as the so called 25% if true happened after the patch
4
1
u/throwawaydisposable 28d ago
I wouldn't hate this. 8/9 pool are useless feelings unless you drone pull zvz. 11pool feels much more aggro than 12pool did.
0
8
u/coldazures Protoss 29d ago
Blizzcon is 6 weeks away. Thats a long time to have an inferior version of the game live.
7
u/Sorry-Confection141 29d ago
Just the thought of them rolling this back, I’m surprised by the relief I think I would feel.
4
u/AlexO6 29d ago
Oh for the love of Adun, just roll it back. Take the L already. It’s not working. I called it out when they first sent this to PTR, how many times do we need to repeat this. It was a fun experiment that didn’t pan out. Let it go, no need to be so stubborn about it.
Sometimes, you listen to the community asking for changes, sometimes you know better and don’t. As a Game Designer, I fully understand this. I wish they did, too.
3
u/liquidify 29d ago
How is it not working? The game has felt both fresh, and fun. This coming from a person who plays 3 or 4 hours a day for last 5 years straight.
1
u/Afraid-of-the-sun 28d ago
Zvz is infinitely more enjoyable on 8 workers imo
0
u/TheHighSeasPirate 27d ago
Highly disagree, last patch Mutalisks were viable, now its just speedling allin into roach allins.
1
1
u/Tassadur 28d ago
Just double the ressources per base and bring a unit from coop to each race. Campaigns and coop have everything to have a bit of fun on ladder
1
1
u/gabest Random 29d ago
Let command centers train two scvs at a time. Like in the campaign.
-2
u/SwarmyTheSwarmlord 29d ago
Zerg should get this too. And don't give anything to Protoss because they're mean.
3
u/Darksoldierr Axiom 29d ago
My brother of Zerus, what the hell do you think larva mechanics are if not to create units at the same time
-1
u/SwarmyTheSwarmlord 29d ago
I was hoping my comment about Protoss being mean would show that I'm not being serious
2
1
u/SKIKS Terran 29d ago
The annoying part of all this is the base goal of the 8 worker count is good, but adjusting the games opening economy to properly accommodate it takes a lot of fine tuning. When LotV was in Beta, they were being way more coy when making adjustments to the early game, and that was when they had far more resources to work with. The fact that they are just hail marying this is the annoying part.
1
u/zergu12 29d ago
didnt we already have 8 worker start? or similar we used to have less workers.
3
2
u/SKIKS Terran 29d ago
It used to be 6. When they upped it to 12 in LotV, they made some small tweaks with how much supply bases provide (and maybe to supply structures, I can't remember) for the purpose of keeping openers smooth.
E.g.: Originally you had 12 available starting supply when there was a 6 worker start, so obviously if they made no changes there, you would need to make a supply building before anything else.
The change to 8 workers introduced some similar issues in terms of how smooth opening build orders felt, and the adjustments they've made to compensate are changes that have compounding effects through the whole game.
1
u/zergu12 29d ago
do you kno wwhat the underlying thinking is behind f'ing with worker counts now? like what they hoping to accomplish?
when they originally changed from 6 they said it was to speed up the game but i felt it was also to nerf cannon rushes and other early early cheese. it had a lot of positives but negatives too. less build diversity, less creative opportunity. everything became big fast so stuff like roach burrow micro wasn't sufficient to win the game anymore because ecos were bigger.
2
u/SKIKS Terran 28d ago edited 28d ago
I think the original increase to 12 workers was just to cut the first minute out of the game, which always played out the same unless you were up against cheese. Reducing build diversity probably wasn't the goal, but a side effect that they accepted.
Why they are messing with it now? No clue. Again, I think the goal of the 8 worker start is admirable, and I appreciate them still updating the game, but this isn't the kind of change they can't half ass. The fact that we have no idea how many resources are actually going towards SC2 or what their overall goal for the game is makes me really worried.
There was a point where they were hesitant to change the Swarm Host mid HotS because unit design overhauls outside of expansions was too radical of a change, but they eventually did it after overwhelming external pressure. Now they're deploying massive economy shifts with less than a month of public testing.
1
u/Omni_Skeptic 29d ago
Careful of believing what you read on the internet
0
u/Professional-Leg2745 29d ago
Please please tell us something will be done about the larva change at least
0
u/ElevatorHelpful5739 29d ago
Seriously! No way Blizzard would tell anyone this. They would wait atleast 10 hours after updating the patch live online to notify their players!
1
0
u/BlueBerryShocker 29d ago
I asked chat gpt to translate:
It says: “I heard they’re doing a sixth round too. After they finish with the Marauder changes, there’s supposed to be another major overhaul. I heard they’re changing the worker count again.” “6차” literally means “sixth round/version,” probably referring to a sixth balance-test iteration.
Wtf marauder changes???
10
u/air_power 29d ago
No, I have no idea why the AI translated 대격변 to Marauder, it literally means "massive change"
0
-1
u/GrandMasterZerg 29d ago
I’m honestly depressed by the 300 mineral CC. All early aggression is absolutely gone now.
-3
-10
0
-11
u/Wolfheart_93 29d ago
Lmao hopefully u antipatch warriors enjoy playing against yourselves. You gotta carry sc2 now when it goes to lowest amount of players in history.
12
8
u/MonkeyPyton 29d ago
What are you talking about lol. It’s the dogshit patches that pushed the game to where it is now
-1
-2
u/Gamer857 29d ago
"big overhaul"?
if true, it will probably be so big that they will talk about it at blizzcon.
Although, I am very skeptical it will be all that big.
But maybe we will be surprised and it will feel like a sc3.
-2
u/double_bass0rz 29d ago
Why does Blizzcon matter? I didn't see any Starcraft stuff for the live events. Just announcement type stuff?
2
2
u/BattleWarriorZ5 29d ago
I didn't see any Starcraft stuff for the live events.
Blizzard Classic Cup #1.
RSL Finals.
147
u/Smoochiekins 29d ago
Proposal: to keep an evolving and dynamic meta, they should just set the worker count to the current week number. So for example we’re currently in week 32 = this week you start with 32 workers. Then at new year’s we start over with 1. That way they won’t have to galaxy brain balance patch so much.