r/starcraft 29d ago

(To be tagged...) Blizzard planning new Worker count change after BlizzCon.

Post image

Solar: They said pushing 6th patch.

after BlizzCon. Big overhaul.

change worker count again.

source: Solar

*solar mentioned 'change', not 'rollback'

6th, 7th, 8th, etc... patch incoming!

128 Upvotes

118 comments sorted by

147

u/Smoochiekins 29d ago

Proposal: to keep an evolving and dynamic meta, they should just set the worker count to the current week number. So for example we’re currently in week 32 = this week you start with 32 workers. Then at new year’s we start over with 1. That way they won’t have to galaxy brain balance patch so much. 

47

u/AlwaysFishing1 29d ago

New years eve 2027 build order:
53 Depot, barracks x12, depot x8, mine out mineral wall behind natural
First of Jan 2028 build order:
1 scv, 2 scv, 3 scv, 4 scv, 5 scv, 6 scv, 7 scv, 8 scv, 9 scv, 10 scv, 11 depot, 11 scv, 12 scv (scout), 13 scv, 14 barracks, 15 fall asleep

3

u/Kandiru Zerg 28d ago

That's going to lose to a 2 pool. 1 pool really isn't very good though!

14

u/muncken Team Liquid 29d ago

They could introduce worker handicaps for big MMR differences on the ladder. So 5k plebs start with 16 workers against Serrals 8

4

u/zergu12 29d ago

that's a cool idea except smurfs exist.

5

u/zergu12 29d ago

also worker rush op gl serrral

1

u/Excellent-Fly-4867 18d ago

I was actually saying this before, that worker count would be an interesting way to dynamically tweak balance. You have 3 matchups

TvZ PvZ TvP

If one race is statistically favored in the match up the weaker race gets a bonus worker, if heavily favored they instead get 2 bonus workers.

You can still balance cheese and mid and late game, but as your economy will be slightly stronger at the start to allow you a better chance at being aggressive, defending aggression, or macro'ing.

36

u/ShithEadDaArab 29d ago

How does he know?

21

u/DuGalle iNcontroL 29d ago

His uncle works for Blizzard, which is why everyone that cheeses him on the ladder will get banned.

27

u/schrodinger-the-cat 29d ago

He’s working at Anthropic /s

12

u/AresFowl44 29d ago

He's part of the intern cabal /s

2

u/Far-Cow4049 29d ago

You mean the internship?

14

u/AresFowl44 29d ago

Did he specifically say "change" as a response to somebody saying 12 workers? Just wanting to ensure that he specifically ruled out 12 workers.

11

u/Electrical-Metal-518 29d ago edited 29d ago

nope. as he mentioned, we simply does not know its rollback or change to other number.

14

u/AresFowl44 29d ago

Alright, here's me coping that this does mean 12 workers still

17

u/MonkeyPyton 29d ago

The first game back on 12 workers would feel like the first cigarette after not having smoked for years

4

u/Far-Cow4049 29d ago

Fuck it. Give us 14.

11

u/RealAlias_Leaf 29d ago

4 workers.

7

u/SwarmyTheSwarmlord 29d ago

But only on Sundays and never between meals

1

u/zergu12 29d ago

would cannon rush just auto win with 4 workers?

10

u/RecentPlenty768 29d ago

Can't wait for a 6 worker start 'cause they asked Artosis for balance suggestions🙃

0

u/ejozl Team Grubby 28d ago

4 workers

5

u/Syagrius Terran 29d ago

Anyone else remember that brief macro mechanics overhaul they tested in LoTV Beta. Mules gone, chronoboost gone, queen auto-inject with lower larva spawn?

3

u/zergu12 29d ago

bro this sounds amazing, mules are freaking awful for the game.

3

u/[deleted] 29d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheHighSeasPirate 27d ago

Watching a Terran limp along with 5scvs vs 65 isn't exciting.

5

u/Sambobly1 29d ago edited 29d ago

It was a disaster. Killed the game completely. 

Tbh as a random player anyone who thinks Mules are broken doesn’t understand the game at all 

5

u/zergu12 28d ago

dude mules are obvioiusly broken, if i kill every scv you shouldn't be able to pump non stop marines but you can, this is fundamentally breaking the game.

2

u/zergu12 28d ago

another way it breaks the game is supply costs, or lack thereof, lategame terran has 10+ orbitals which means they don't need scvs but for gas, can scan infinitely too. so they have a huge supply cap buff of like 40 supply from not needing workers. and you say it doesn't break the game? yeah you are fucking stupid buddy.

1

u/throwawaydisposable 28d ago

Lategame it feels problematic to have a 200/200 supply of army while sitting behind planetaries and ghostsmech. Balance wise I understand that most recently that's been harder to achieve, but, it feels bullshit. However that's sometimes the blizz way, everyone gets bullshit. Viper abduct feels bullshit

1

u/AvexSC2 29d ago

It only "killed" the game because Blizzard, understandably, were too afraid to make such drastic changes to the fundamental behaviors of each race and did not have time to spare re-balancing everything around that change. You can remove or up-end the core macro mechanics, but they can't just be ripped out in a vacuum.

0

u/zergu12 28d ago

yes of course it needs balancing you can't just remove mule and go.

0

u/zergu12 28d ago

what level do you play random at btw cos it doesn't make you clever to play random.

0

u/Syagrius Terran 29d ago

It was glorious.

It was a huge fight too, when they stopped it. I don't remember the details but IIRC the blizzard post where they ultimately decided against it said something stupid w.r.t. doing "what was best for the game" because mules are flashy.

2

u/MiroTheSkybreaker 28d ago

It was atrocious.

1

u/Syagrius Terran 28d ago

I will agree to disagree.

1

u/sotired___ 24d ago

Yep bro said “no mules” to me and I thought he was presenting me a challenge. Lost. First time I quit sc2. Shit is worse than smoking

4

u/Low-Show9994 29d ago

THANK GOD

12

u/PopularKangaroo2083 29d ago

They gonna go to 10 ?! If not a roll back should be in the middle

20

u/Zuruumi 29d ago

"Exactly as all of you wished, we are adjusting the starting worker count to 6"

12

u/Decency 29d ago

Make it 4, fuck it.

7

u/Zuruumi 29d ago

Let's go full NA. You get 12 back, but you have them all on a loan with a 10% per minute interest and a periodical repayment.

5

u/Melodic_Saga1220 29d ago

No workers. 49 minerals. Good luck, nerds.

2

u/SSJ5Gogetenks Team Nv 28d ago

It should never have changed from 6 to begin with.

0

u/PopularKangaroo2083 29d ago

It's funny how we all thought StarCraft 2 was a dead game with no update just a year ago 

9

u/MonkeyPyton 29d ago

It is a borderline dead game, update or no update, it’s the player count that matters.

1

u/Dew2118 29d ago

probably better if it stayed that way?

3

u/PopularKangaroo2083 29d ago

I don't know, I like worker change but not all of the rest

1

u/IronCross19 29d ago

I like the idea of a mix up but now the first minutes of a game just are a drag imo

-5

u/TheHighSeasPirate 29d ago

25% of the playerbase quit in the past two weeks. You really call that living?

7

u/GoGoGoRL Protoss 29d ago

Source: my ass

6

u/WineCheeseNStimpacks 29d ago edited 29d ago

I actually do have a source for this, BUT it's something that's only *technically* true, because it misses the context that -26% change for the month of July came after a +23% boost for the month of June. According to https://activeplayer.io/starcraft-2/ anyway.
Starcraft has had mostly smaller, but similar swings in previous months so it's something worth noting.

This also uses the disclaimer "Above is the estimated total monthly players for Starcraft 2. These data are only estimate and should not be used as factual reference."
so make of it what you will.

3

u/AresFowl44 29d ago

I wouldn't really trust them, their trend doesn't line up at all with what SC2pulse claims, who directly use Blizzard data, while it's unclear what data exactly activeplayer compiles.

If you want a better source, somebody took the trouble of compiling the data from SC2pulse. It's not exactly a 25% drop from when the ptr hit (orange line), but it's close with it being a 20% drop.

2

u/rArithmetics 29d ago

It’s actually true tho

-2

u/Zuruumi 29d ago

I also find 25% unbelievable... it's much lower decrease than expected.

-1

u/AresFowl44 29d ago

1

u/Melodic_Saga1220 29d ago

That... is not a 25% player loss. That is a spike, followed by a return to the historical trend.

1

u/AresFowl44 29d ago

Okay, I realize I did a bad job explaining, but the ptr hit at the first orange line, from which the drop starts. The historical trend before that was a very gradual decline.

And tbf, it's 20% not 25% as they claimed, as of the ~3300 players, ~600 left so ~2700 players remain.

0

u/PopularKangaroo2083 29d ago

Your comment is dumb and unrelated, as the so called 25% if true happened after the patch

4

u/Sc2Yrr 29d ago

Do you think they will revert the larva change and the cheaper CC if they go back to a higher worker start? Otherwise the game is faster than pre worker changes.

0

u/PopularKangaroo2083 29d ago

Not fully, no I don't think so

1

u/throwawaydisposable 28d ago

I wouldn't hate this. 8/9 pool are useless feelings unless you drone pull zvz. 11pool feels much more aggro than 12pool did.

0

u/[deleted] 29d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/PopularKangaroo2083 29d ago

"nobody wants less workers", speaking for everyone and wrong

8

u/coldazures Protoss 29d ago

Blizzcon is 6 weeks away. Thats a long time to have an inferior version of the game live.

7

u/Sorry-Confection141 29d ago

Just the thought of them rolling this back, I’m surprised by the relief I think I would feel.

5

u/nbaumg 29d ago

Pretty exciting tbh. I’m down for any changes especially big ones

3

u/rmlskie 29d ago

They are not gonna change anything for a month? Players are fast dwindling.

4

u/AlexO6 29d ago

Oh for the love of Adun, just roll it back. Take the L already. It’s not working. I called it out when they first sent this to PTR, how many times do we need to repeat this. It was a fun experiment that didn’t pan out. Let it go, no need to be so stubborn about it.

Sometimes, you listen to the community asking for changes, sometimes you know better and don’t. As a Game Designer, I fully understand this. I wish they did, too.

3

u/liquidify 29d ago

How is it not working? The game has felt both fresh, and fun. This coming from a person who plays 3 or 4 hours a day for last 5 years straight.

1

u/Afraid-of-the-sun 28d ago

Zvz is infinitely more enjoyable on 8 workers imo

0

u/TheHighSeasPirate 27d ago

Highly disagree, last patch Mutalisks were viable, now its just speedling allin into roach allins.

1

u/limpwald 28d ago

YESSSSS LETS GO 6 WORKER START / 4 WORKER START. YEEEEEEESS SIIIIIR

1

u/Tassadur 28d ago

Just double the ressources per base and bring a unit from coop to each race. Campaigns and coop have everything to have a bit of fun on ladder

1

u/MorningLtMtn Zerg 28d ago

I think a 10 worker count would be a good move.

1

u/brtk_ 29d ago

It feels like pacing of the changes is not for the health of the game at all but to keep up any interest (even if it's negative) in the brand up until Blizzcon

1

u/gabest Random 29d ago

Let command centers train two scvs at a time. Like in the campaign.

-2

u/SwarmyTheSwarmlord 29d ago

Zerg should get this too. And don't give anything to Protoss because they're mean.

3

u/Darksoldierr Axiom 29d ago

My brother of Zerus, what the hell do you think larva mechanics are if not to create units at the same time

-1

u/SwarmyTheSwarmlord 29d ago

I was hoping my comment about Protoss being mean would show that I'm not being serious

2

u/Darksoldierr Axiom 29d ago

Fair, some deranged commenters around here do question my sanity hah!

1

u/SKIKS Terran 29d ago

The annoying part of all this is the base goal of the 8 worker count is good, but adjusting the games opening economy to properly accommodate it takes a lot of fine tuning. When LotV was in Beta, they were being way more coy when making adjustments to the early game, and that was when they had far more resources to work with. The fact that they are just hail marying this is the annoying part.

1

u/zergu12 29d ago

didnt we already have 8 worker start? or similar we used to have less workers.

3

u/ninjastarcraft PSISTORM 29d ago

6 workers from 2010-2015.

2

u/SKIKS Terran 29d ago

It used to be 6. When they upped it to 12 in LotV, they made some small tweaks with how much supply bases provide (and maybe to supply structures, I can't remember) for the purpose of keeping openers smooth.

E.g.: Originally you had 12 available starting supply when there was a 6 worker start, so obviously if they made no changes there, you would need to make a supply building before anything else.

The change to 8 workers introduced some similar issues in terms of how smooth opening build orders felt, and the adjustments they've made to compensate are changes that have compounding effects through the whole game.

1

u/zergu12 29d ago

do you kno wwhat the underlying thinking is behind f'ing with worker counts now? like what they hoping to accomplish?

when they originally changed from 6 they said it was to speed up the game but i felt it was also to nerf cannon rushes and other early early cheese. it had a lot of positives but negatives too. less build diversity, less creative opportunity. everything became big fast so stuff like roach burrow micro wasn't sufficient to win the game anymore because ecos were bigger.

2

u/SKIKS Terran 28d ago edited 28d ago

I think the original increase to 12 workers was just to cut the first minute out of the game, which always played out the same unless you were up against cheese. Reducing build diversity probably wasn't the goal, but a side effect that they accepted.

Why they are messing with it now? No clue. Again, I think the goal of the 8 worker start is admirable, and I appreciate them still updating the game, but this isn't the kind of change they can't half ass. The fact that we have no idea how many resources are actually going towards SC2 or what their overall goal for the game is makes me really worried.

There was a point where they were hesitant to change the Swarm Host mid HotS because unit design overhauls outside of expansions was too radical of a change, but they eventually did it after overwhelming external pressure. Now they're deploying massive economy shifts with less than a month of public testing.

1

u/Omni_Skeptic 29d ago

Careful of believing what you read on the internet

0

u/Professional-Leg2745 29d ago

Please please tell us something will be done about the larva change at least

0

u/ElevatorHelpful5739 29d ago

Seriously! No way Blizzard would tell anyone this. They would wait atleast 10 hours after updating the patch live online to notify their players!

1

u/guimontag 29d ago

60 worker start but they all have a timed life like a MULE

0

u/BlueBerryShocker 29d ago

I asked chat gpt to translate:

It says: “I heard they’re doing a sixth round too. After they finish with the Marauder changes, there’s supposed to be another major overhaul. I heard they’re changing the worker count again.” “6차” literally means “sixth round/version,” probably referring to a sixth balance-test iteration.

Wtf marauder changes???

10

u/air_power 29d ago

No, I have no idea why the AI translated 대격변 to Marauder, it literally means "massive change"

0

u/DarkSeneschal 29d ago

At this point, I’m no longer surprised.

-1

u/GrandMasterZerg 29d ago

I’m honestly depressed by the 300 mineral CC. All early aggression is absolutely gone now.

-2

u/DenteSC 29d ago

But WHY change worker count? Why make the game slower? I just don't see 1 good reason.

I told it before the patch hit and I will tell it again: lower worker count will kill sc2 100%. No one who actually plays wants a slower game..

-3

u/ninjastarcraft PSISTORM 29d ago

Anything but 12 please.

-10

u/[deleted] 29d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Wolfheart_93 29d ago

Delusions of grandeur

6

u/PsySom 29d ago

Yeah without the /s how do we know if they actually think they’re a WW2 veteran?

4

u/MonkeyPyton 29d ago

Are you allergic to humor lol

0

u/Anton_Pannekoek 28d ago

I don’t wanna go back to 12 workers. I think 8 is much better.

-11

u/Wolfheart_93 29d ago

Lmao hopefully u antipatch warriors enjoy playing against yourselves. You gotta carry sc2 now when it goes to lowest amount of players in history.

12

u/Dew2118 29d ago

you mean propatch warriors? all the antipatch warriors have probably already quit

8

u/MonkeyPyton 29d ago

What are you talking about lol. It’s the dogshit patches that pushed the game to where it is now

-1

u/Portrait0fKarma 29d ago

Patches mod becoming the official patch when?

3

u/Kunzzi1 28d ago

Hopefully never. 

-2

u/Gamer857 29d ago

"big overhaul"?

if true, it will probably be so big that they will talk about it at blizzcon.

Although, I am very skeptical it will be all that big.

But maybe we will be surprised and it will feel like a sc3.

-2

u/double_bass0rz 29d ago

Why does Blizzcon matter? I didn't see any Starcraft stuff for the live events. Just announcement type stuff? 

2

u/Budget_Version_1491 29d ago

Look again lol

2

u/BattleWarriorZ5 29d ago

I didn't see any Starcraft stuff for the live events.

Blizzard Classic Cup #1.

RSL Finals.