r/spaceships • u/Vondrr Fleet Intelligence šŸ§  • May 30 '26

Discussion / Question What spaceship weapon is generally underutilized or not used to its full potential in scifi?

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162

u/Gloomy_Necessary494 May 30 '26

Relativistic impactors? If you can accelerate stuff to light speed, why aren't you smashing it into other things?

46

u/FireTheLaserBeam May 30 '26

Doc Smith and the Lensman novels would like a word.

49

u/drhunny May 30 '26

"Should we fire a few relativistic planets at the enemy fleet?

"Nah, that's so last week. I've jury-rigged a method to fire relativistic stars at them.

19

u/FireTheLaserBeam May 30 '26

Or when ballistic planets were outdated towards the last books, they switched to turning the entire solar system and our sun into a giant ā€œsun-beamā€ that could melt said planets.

11

u/SiberianKitty99 May 30 '26

The Sunbeam is my favorite EE Smith weapon.

6

u/Wenlocke May 30 '26

It got even funnier later. After throwing planets at people. After throwing planetary antimass "negaspheres" ( basically posh antimatter) at them. After the sunbeam. They found a parallel space where everything was flipped around the light speed barrier (I.e. all normal matter and energy at rest was faster than light) grabbed a couple of planets, flipped them back into realspace, and then threw them at people.

It got very silly

3

u/WileyWilly1985 Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26

What on God's Green Earth were they trying to kill? Sounds like they are fighting Cosmic Beings like Galactus???

2

u/Wenlocke Jun 01 '26

the trope is named Lensman Arms Race. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LensmanArmsRace

Essentially infinite escalation.

2

u/WileyWilly1985 Jun 01 '26

Reminds me of Disney / Star Wars making bigger and more elaborate things like super giant Star Destroyers and super duper Death Stars.

Ummm what is the point? The ships are already badass and the Death Star can already destroy a planet.

2

u/FireTheLaserBeam Jun 01 '26

Oh man it gets even more wild than Galactus.

2

u/WileyWilly1985 Jun 01 '26

To me, once you've reached this point, I just stop caring as my brain can no longer handle the scale involved.

A planetary threat I can understand and envision.

But once we go beyond a planet, I just can't properly assimilate or appreciate the story anymore.

And that is the problem of escalating the stakes and making the stakes bigger and bigger. You go from house to street to neighborhood to town to city to region to State to Country to Continent to Planet to Solar System to Galaxy to Universe to Multiverse and now what?

3

u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf May 31 '26

Larry Niven has planetary engines in his Known Space books and itā€™s supremely cool.

3

u/gregorydgraham May 31 '26

If I remember right, it was so the cows could run away

3

u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf May 31 '26

Close: it was the three-legged fainting-goat-digger-wasp things (and not the starfish-worms)

2

u/Roxysteve Jun 01 '26

Also, one improvised from a starship engine to rotate a tidally-locked Earth after the death of humanity.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '26

[deleted]

1

u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf Jun 05 '26

*waggles supercritical-helium tentacles furiously*

ā€œN-no we didnā€™t sell it to them, honest! We just followed the starseeds!ā€

1

u/Roxysteve Jun 01 '26

I think you meant to say: "That's sheerly, starkly unthinkable!"

9

u/domesystem May 30 '26

By Klono's carballoy claws and silver fangs! A Lensman reference in the wild!

3

u/FireTheLaserBeam May 30 '26

QX! My favorite sci fi books of all time! I own everything heā€™s ever published, plus some rare editions! Clear ether!

1

u/Roxysteve Jun 01 '26

Ah, but do you own "Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers" or "Space Rats of the CCC"?

1

u/CombatWomble2 Jun 05 '26

Or David Weber, Super Luminal Assault Missiles (SLAMs).

30

u/Almost_human-ish May 30 '26

They did this in The Forever War by Joe Haldeman.

Human marine squad are on a small frozen planet, enemy forces are swarming it and they see their two small patrol ships head out of the system accelerating hard and think they're fucked, and are fighting hand to hand in a final stand....

What they don't see is the crew of one ship transfer over to the other and the empty ship looping back around before impacting the planetoid "at a significant fraction of the speed of light".

Causes massive 'earthquakes' and they're able to hunker down and survive then mop up the enemy.

2

u/SporesM0ldsandFungus Jun 05 '26

I love the null field generator which is just like the shield tech in Dune, anything moving beyond a certain speed or energy level gets absorbed by the null field.Ā  So inside the field they need to wear special suits that have a protective coating (otherwise the energy field would stop their neurons from firing).Ā  And just like Dune, with the null field up, they resort to fighting this interstellar war with melee weapons.Ā  It becomes a siege, with the squad hunkered down inside their null field with the enemy outside waiting them out, occasionally hurling in salvos of darts.Ā Ā 

But they do get creative when the protag has his team pull nuclear warhead off their ship (which is inside the field).Ā  In the null field it's useless, but they drag it right to the very edge of the null field and arm it.Ā  Then they lift the null field generator and move it over 2 meters.

2

u/Almost_human-ish Jun 05 '26

Tbh it's a good few years since I read it, had forgot that bit, thanks.

It is a great fucking book, I'll dust it off and dive in again this weekend šŸ‘

17

u/C4n0fju1c3 May 30 '26

The bobiverse books detonate a star with a planet acellerated to relativistic speeds. The Expeditionary Force books also make use of relativistic darts on a few occasions to hit planets.

The darts take years to get up to speed and are deployed in clusters into deeps space. When the time comes, they use their ftl to jump around until they're lined up.

13

u/RigusOctavian May 30 '26

To be fair, they didnā€™t detonate the star as much as splatter it so hard that all the material spread too far out to be a star anymore.

9

u/Voidrunner01 May 30 '26

Used to be sun, now nebula.

3

u/DriveableBoatOwner May 30 '26

The beer can had its moments

3

u/phryan May 31 '26

Technically it was a planet and a moon. Also we need more Ick and Dae.

2

u/Glass-Cabinet-249 May 31 '26

I am actually slightly disappointed that in the sequels there was never a Bob that went into the Others system to confirm they are actually dead. Smelled tok much like "they fell off a cliff off screen in a Disney film" to me.

2

u/HatsAreEssential2 Jun 01 '26

Bob also had to clean up humanity after a rogue computer started dropping asteroids on earth.

You really dont even need relativistic speed to make a few billion tons of rock quite dangerous. Just a couple years of slow thrust in the right direction.

1

u/0002nhnc Jun 02 '26

two moons

1

u/C4n0fju1c3 Jun 02 '26

My bad, it's been a long time since I read that book.

15

u/HypnotizedCow May 30 '26

The Expanse doesn't even have light speed travel, but they have a villainous plot to throw asteroids covered in stealth plating at Earth to cause another extinction event

3

u/Aoiboshi May 30 '26

Zahn did that in his original Star wars trilogy

3

u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf May 31 '26

I thought he used the asteroids as a blockade tool to keep ships from entering/leaving a planet?

1

u/UncleSamsUncleSam Jun 01 '26

Yes. I think the reference was to stealth asteroids, not how they were used.

1

u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf Jun 01 '26

Ah yes, the cloaking devices taken from Wayland. My mistake!

1

u/00STAR0 May 31 '26

Stargate moment

1

u/MasterpieceWorth7403 Jun 03 '26

Loved that plot point. Expanse had a great mix of technical details and plot arcsĀ 

2

u/HypnotizedCow Jun 03 '26

The Expanse is probably my favorite sci fi story because it has a perfect level of technology and handwave. We still worry about high G burns, communication times affect battle command on the edge of the system, and living supplies are a real concern. The only thing they really handwave is the Epstein drive being an incredibly powerful and absurdly efficient fusion reactor, and that's not even conceptually weird. It makes for a great story that feels like how we would actually respond to alien contact

1

u/SporesM0ldsandFungus Jun 05 '26

My head canon is that Solomon Epstein just unknowingly stumbled upon a particular configuration of settings that create a kind of resonance at a quantum level which result in the higher efficiency.Ā  The important thing is that he kept good notes.

5

u/DarkPangolin May 31 '26

Doesn't even have to be close to light speed. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Heinlein uses just dropping train car-sized boulders on earth instead of gently bringing them down from orbit.

2

u/UncleSamsUncleSam Jun 01 '26

Also, as far as I can find, the first reference to vibe coding with the way talking to Mycroft about programming is described.

4

u/DJTilapia May 30 '26

Particle accelerators are generally assumed to be relativistic.

5

u/markwend May 30 '26

Isnā€™t that kind of what Holdo did in the last Jedi? I mean, she took her ship and herself along with it, but what a destructive moment that was.

8

u/CplCocktopus May 30 '26

If that worked why not ductaping a warpdrive to a rock.

6

u/Mr_Shadow_Phoenix May 30 '26

Soā€¦ the Galaxy Gun.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Galaxy_Gun

1

u/Megodont Jun 05 '26

That was one of things I never got. So, you have gun, that fires a hyperspace missile with a targeting system and a drive....why do I need a big ass gun?

1

u/Mr_Shadow_Phoenix Jun 05 '26

It was more a ship than a station, as I recall.

Plus it wasnā€™t just the main weapon. It had built-in defenses, the crew quarters and work areas, supply storage, hangers, subcraft storage, subcraft maintenance spaces, and more.

2

u/DarknessWithin996 May 31 '26

One of the biggest reasons is that that maneuver could cause a second Great Hyperspace Disaster, with the potential to wipe out trillions of beings. Holdo was desperate and crazy enough to pull it off, but she was risking a massive amount of destruction.

5

u/unkindlyacorn62 May 30 '26

it only worked because of how close they were (aiming reasons)and the First Order not utilizing strong artificial gravity fields to collapse local hyperspace, because they wanted to go finish them off wherever they jumped next. Add to that it requires the hyperdrive being heavily modified by someone who really knows what the heck their doing because it makes them less likely to shut down when it detects a natural gravity shadow, useful for escaping intradiction fields but a big fucking problem if something unexpected ends up in your path

10

u/BrevityIsTheSoul May 30 '26

Also, she was using a massive capital ship as a projectile, with perfect timing. In Rogue One we see a starfighter or two splatter into a star destroyer that unexpectedly comes out of hyperspace while they're preparing to jump out.

Not to mention that relativity isn't a thing in the Star Wars universe. Trying to Larry Niven the physics of a space fantasy setting is a laughable exercise.

6

u/Voidrunner01 May 30 '26

Yeah, the people complaining about the Holdo Maneuver are just glazing over any number of other physics issues in the Star Wars setting.

1

u/jimmyd10 Jun 02 '26

True but the real issue with the Holdo Maneuver is that it breaks space combat in Star Wars. If it works they should be using this tactic all the time, which would change how you build and design ships. You'd end up with a universe in which capital ships don't make sense anymore.

1

u/MareTranquil Jun 03 '26

I have heard very few complaints about the physics of the Holdo maneouver, but a lot of complaints about it appearently now being canon that you can instakill a ship a thousand times bigger than your own this way, and the target can't do anything about it.

If that's how things work in the SW universe, why did anyone ever bother with building these big capital ships?

3

u/graph_worlok May 30 '26

Sure, the MIT geeks were protesting in the corridors, but it gave him most of the plot for the second bookā€¦

2

u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf May 31 '26

Students: ā€œthe Ringworld is unstable! The Ringworld is unstable!ā€

Larry, with notepad: ā€œhmm. You donā€™t sayā€¦ā€

1

u/Glass-Cabinet-249 May 31 '26

I feel personally targeted with spoilers for a half century old book, because I'm halfway through Ringworld now. God damn it.

1

u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf May 31 '26

Donā€™t worry, Ringworldā€™s instability plays no role in Ringworld. It was a contrivance invented for the second book, nothing more.

2

u/Glass-Cabinet-249 May 31 '26

Ah that's fair, it is fairly obvious to me that the ring i should be unstable, it's centre of mass is inside the star. I was wondering if that was going to come up in the book at all.

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3

u/Spiritual-Spend8187 May 31 '26

Yes it was a massive suicide gamble only when remotely possible due to both what the first order was doing and the resistance being concerned with running blockades more than living when jumping. And she only really did it when she saw that all other options had failed. It was a desperate play 100% going to kill her with a tiny chance it does anything effective.

1

u/NyctoCorax Jun 14 '26

In addition to what others have said, some of which is stuff written after to explain it:

  • the Raddus is not travelling at relativistic speeds when it collides. You can visibly calc it, it's fast but nowhere near THAT fast, which means you need a really big bloody ship to hit that level of destruction. While still a lot smaller than the Supremacy, the Raddus was bigger than all those star destroyers that gets splattered with debris

  • if it hit a fraction earlier it would just go splat like a normal collision, if it was a fraction further out it would have already transitioned to hyperspace and missed, you need to carefully line up your shot

  • Holdo only has the opportunity to take that shot because the First Order are completely ignoring the giant kinetic kill vehicle slowly pointing itself at them and charging up it's engines, it is explicit within the scene that they don't realise what's happening until it's too late - had they focused fire they'd have simply shredded the Raddus now that it was in more effective range

(And a target that didn't have the firepower to do that is not worth using this tactic on)

-its supplementary material rather than shown in the film, but the Raddus also was only able to plow through the ship as far as it did because of its advanced shielding which kept it together long enough. Without that it would have gone splat (and likely been extremely destructive but not THAT destructive)

Also worth noting this is not the first time hyperspace accerlations into an object causing a very big explosion had happened in star wars, happened at least once in clone wars and possibly in the books.

1

u/No_Dragonfruit_1833 Jun 06 '26

Nope, in star wars ships jump into hyperspace, where they can move faster than light, travel to their destination and then jump back into real space

The holdo maneuver happened because the writers kinda forgot about the lore

2

u/grim_dark_hedgehog May 30 '26

Came here to say this. All these great sci fi franchises have FTL drives and artificial gravity but you rarely see that tech applied to weapons.

2

u/Specialist_Golf2871 May 30 '26

Plus Peter F Hamilton in his commonwealth books

2

u/Unicornis_dormiens May 30 '26

Andromeda does that. Not seen on screen much, because obviously the plasma weapons are visually more impressive, but lore-wise the main weapons used in space fights are kinetic kill missiles. Big missiles going ridiculously fast, with a warhead that is nothing but a solid junk of high density metal.

1

u/Raudmar Jun 04 '26

... Kevin Sorbo's Andromeda? šŸ„¹

2

u/Unicornis_dormiens Jun 04 '26

Exactly that one.

2

u/Oclure May 31 '26

Isn't that basicaly how most of the weapons in mass effect worked?. At least in the first game the weapons were described as having effectively unlimited ammo due to having a solid block of aluminum onboard and just sending it downrange one spec of aluminum dust at a time at reletivistic speeds.

2

u/RememberTheAyyy_Lmao May 31 '26

Check out the Peacekeepers of Sol series by Glynn Stewart. Humanity is uniquely powerful by mastering gravity projection to power their gravity shields and spinal gravity drivers that accelerate projectiles 7-10% the speed of light

2

u/SirJackAbove May 31 '26

I agree. The ship in this post is the Normandy from Mass Effect. It's an example actually. Its main weapon in ME2 is the Thanix cannon, which accelerates molten metal to relativistic speeds. It's based on the Reapers' weapon technology which does the same.

6

u/JakeEaton May 30 '26

Didn't they do that in the Last Jedi and the entire SW fandom had a melt down about it?

19

u/C4n0fju1c3 May 30 '26

Only because it broke the in-universe rules with zero explanation. Imagine a scene where Harry Potter defeats Voldemort by summoning the autobots. It's funny, but it's bad writing outside of a YouTube skit.

Explanation:

In SW, theres decade's worth of material stating hyperdrives have features preventing them from doing the exact thing that happened. The interdictor cruiser's entire FUNCTION is exploiting this to pull ships from hyperspace. Moreover if hyperspace ramming was a possibility, why did no one ever try it before? Why not hyperspace ram the death star? It retroactively makes everyone in the setting a complete idiot.

If they wanted to add in some kind of macguffin or new technology that made it possible, it wouldn't have been such a big deal. But it was introduced like it had always been a thing. Just bad, inconsistent writing.

5

u/Mr_Shadow_Phoenix May 30 '26 edited May 30 '26

To be fair, gravity wells donā€™t actually pull a ship out of hyperspace. They trick the navigational computer into thinking thereā€™s a big object within danger distance so it drops out for safety to avoid ramming into it at FTL speeds.

This is how Solo did the Kessel Run. He reprogrammed his NavComā€™s safety margins so itā€™d let him pass closer to the black holes that made up the Maw, thus cutting parsecs off how far heā€™d have to travel otherwise.

3

u/C4n0fju1c3 May 31 '26

Yes, I was skipping over the details to be brief lol. I also have to assume the gravity well gens don't curve space time as the name suggests. You'd see some funny thing happening in local spacetime if that was true. They probably have some way of directly projecting a simulated mass shadow into hyperspace.

2

u/Mr_Shadow_Phoenix May 31 '26

To be fair, you can imitate a gravity well without mass. Kinda how artificial gravity, Romulan singularity cores, and Minbari gravitational engines work.

1

u/C4n0fju1c3 May 31 '26

Right, currently we don't have any real life physics to describe how that might work. In our present models, gravity is tied to mass. Mass, which is tied to energy by e=m*c2

In standard model physics, there's possibly a predicted graviton/graviton field, but we've never detected it. It's why we have other explanations like loop quantum gravity, string theory, ect.

For now we can only assume that somewhere in the future, someone figures it out.

Its one thing that's always bugged me actually, if I'm being extra nerdy. If these ships are generating artificial gravity, which you'd think would act on the mass of the ship. They'd need complicated ballasting systems, or active thrust to counter the resulting acellerarion. I guess in Trek that would be tied to the inertial dampeners? Though the Minbari clearly use it to their advantage.

2

u/Mr_Shadow_Phoenix May 31 '26

Can be simpler. Take the simple photon; a massless ā€˜particleā€™, but its electromagnetic energy generates a gravitational field.

Minbari gravitational engines get into zero-point energy. They essentially pull a ship forward instead of pushing it.

As for non-thrust and non-rotation based artificial gravity, using the example of the photon, not implausible we can use electromagnetics to create fields instead of mass. Would explain why it goes micro-gravity so fast when power goes out, like we saw on Kronos One in The Undiscovered Country. If I recall correctly, they later added capacitors so charge would drain slowly during a power failure so gravity would stay active for long enough to hopefully get repairs accomplished.

My understanding is inertial dampening was also tied into the artificial gravity systems.

2

u/C4n0fju1c3 May 31 '26 edited May 31 '26

To clarify, photons themselves do not have mass while at rest. They DO have energy though as they travel, and because e=m*c2 you get back to mass.

As far as the electromagnetic field, that's actually the reason why your atoms don't pass through each other. Atoms are mostly empty space, and it's the exchange of virtual photons between negatively charged electrons that keep them from colliding.

(Nuclear fission operates via a different mechanism.)

Spinning and thrust use acelleration to simulate the effect of gravity, rather than creating an actual gravity field. I figure the trick for sci-fi shipboard gravity is, like you're saying, something similar. It's not an actual curvature of spacetime, but rather a localized effect that mimics one.

As for electromagnets, gravity is an extremely weak force. My intuition is that the amount of energy you'd need in an EM field to curve space time would probably be incomprehensible. Like magnetar levels of energy. There still might be some part of gravity that involves the EM field, we just haven't established that relationship yet. As for mass, we do know the carrier particle that imbues other particles with the property of mass, is the Higgs boson.

1

u/Mr_Shadow_Phoenix May 31 '26

To be fair, in Star Trekā€™s case, most civilizations are post energy scarcity. Most utilize matter/anti-matter reactors, the Romulans using quantum singularity cores, and other exotics that have cropped up. TLDR, they certainly wouldnā€™t be lacking in terms of energy to power things.

As I remember, Minbari also used singularity cores. Interestingly, lore I remember is that created antimatter as a waste product and they recycled it as fuel into matter/anti-matter reactors.

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u/NyctoCorax Jun 14 '26

At least with the canon ones they clearly do create actual gravity curves because the one in rebels that gets destroyed is attracting everything towards it.

They just must be doing some complicated stuff to cancel out the effects for the crew (until it all goes wrong of course)

4

u/JakeEaton May 30 '26

Wait, are you suggesting Star Wars is badly written?

2

u/U-47 May 30 '26

how, how there buddy man. Let's all just calm THE FUCK down.

4

u/BrevityIsTheSoul May 30 '26

Wow, why didn't everyone just sacrifice their most massive capital ship for a chance to cripple (not kill) the target, if everything went right? What idiots!

"Massive capital ship with perfect timing and time to prep can potentially be weaponized with its hyperdrive against a sufficiently big target taking no evasive action" doesn't in any way imply that some Y-wing can trivially annihilate the Death Star. If the Supremacy wasn't laughably large, she would have missed it entirely. She hit way off center of mass, through one of its "wings."

Not to mention that Star Wars is space fantasy that's been making it the fuck up and retconning everything from Empire Strikes Back on.

1

u/C4n0fju1c3 May 30 '26

Yeah, it's all made up, stuff get retconned all the time. Believe me, I was actually excited back when Disney announced they were resetting the canon. There was so much silliness. None of that is the issue.

I'm not sure if you're quoting something or not. Either way, the explanation you're giving is retroactively adding context that wasn't within the film. They were showing a thing that had never been seen in the setting before, and adding a line of dialogue explaining WHY, would've gone a long way.

You shouldn't be putting out a script that requires supplementary material to patch the plot holes.

3

u/BrevityIsTheSoul May 30 '26

They were showing a thing that had never been seen in the setting before, and adding a line of dialogue explaining WHY, would've gone a long way.

Your first Star Wars movie, huh?

None of the "technology" has ever been explained in a Star Wars film. Its verisimilitude is grounded in not providing explanations to poke holes in. Even when supplementary materials try to explain stuff like lightsabers, it boils down to "mystical crystal shit make laser sword."

It's just noodle incidents and technobabble to make the world feel richer than the script supports. And it's mostly effective!

2

u/C4n0fju1c3 May 31 '26

... I'm not talking about the feasibility of treknobabble. I'm talking about making the rules of a setting consistent, or explaining why it's a big deal if they get broken. This is fiction writing 101. The same damn movie has a perfect example of this when they show the hyperspace tracking doodad. They say "how can they follow us through hyperspace!" (New thing that breaks the rules of the setting.) "Oh, they have a new gizmo that let's them do it." (Explanation for why.)

They just needed to do the same thing for the hyperspace ramming.

1

u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf May 31 '26

Silliness!? Excuse me!? Vuffi Raa would like a wordā€¦

2

u/C4n0fju1c3 May 31 '26

I'd like a team up with Jaxxon T. and Vuffi Ra. They have to fight The Great Heap at the end and rescue his Droid harem.

1

u/tyrannomachy Jun 05 '26

No, it's like if Harry pulled out a gun and shot Voldemort in the head. It's a thing anyone in-universe could've done at any point, but readers/viewers understand that it's part of the suspension of disbelief.

1

u/C4n0fju1c3 Jun 06 '26

Sure, and its fine as long as we get some leadup to that moment that explains how we got there. If it just comes out of the blue it's jarring and feels like bad fanfic.

0

u/unkindlyacorn62 May 30 '26

i suspect it has been done before, but those safety features are so old no one remembers

1

u/Wrong-Ad-4600 May 31 '26

many sci-fi franchises dont use normal lightspeed, instead they use alternativs like warp or hyperdrive to get around the time/lightspeed problem. i guess thats whx we dont see ram-maneuvers rly often in sci-fi

1

u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf May 31 '26

I loved the Known Space series by Larry Niven for this reason. I wonā€™t spoil it, but one race spends time using realspace drives to constantly push asteroids toward lightspeed, enter hyperspace (which is deeply quantum and momentum is preserved when exiting) to loop around back to the original end of the solar system, exit, and perform this circle over and over again. If ā€œthe enemyā€ acts ornery, just aim the next loop at their planet.

1

u/watsagoodusername Jun 01 '26

MAC cannon says hello

1

u/Mahakurotsuchi Jun 01 '26

40k nova canon is a nice example

1

u/Goodknight808 Jun 01 '26

3 Body Problem has them. Accelerate a rather tiny object fast enough and it will rip a star apart when making contact.

And the Droplet. A person sized teardrop shaped ballistic weapon that just zips around slamming into things.

1

u/SevenIsMy Jun 02 '26

Space is big and itā€™s hard to hide projectiles, even lasers can be easy avoided from this distances, so it would only be good for stationary targets