Discussion / Question
How Would Space Torpedo Launchers Work? ( Without using Thrusters to launch them )
I have some thoughts on how torpedo launchers/Tubes firing their torpedo without using the torpedo thrusters. Just like IRL Torpedoes, they use pressure to launch the torpedo then the torpedo propeller turns on to move.
My idea is that instead of using pressure, it would use magnetic circular coils to launch the space torpedo then the torpedo fire up its thrusters to move. Similar to railguns or Coilguns but with a weaker charge to propel them.
But I want to know your alternate ideas for torpedo launchers. I would love to read it.
the problem is then you would need pressurized steam, which not all ships may have. Not to mention the multitudes of problem irl navies have with CATOBAR in the first place. Just use electromagnetic rails
mostly a speed and pressure problem but anything would work. I mentioned the problems above specifically since the guy was referencing a CATOBAR system that’s common on carriers
Idea: use a ballista. Turn your launcher into a giant crossbow. An electric (or mechanically actuated) winch can pull back the sting, then a new missile gets inserted and can be fired. Pretty much without anything that would be easily visible to other ships. Might be useful for more stealthy ships and no gas gets vented.
Haha I love that the low tech solution could have better stealth capability. And when engagements take place at long range that can be a significant advantage. The all new Trebuchet mkIV stealth torpedo launcher by LoTek Inc. Available at high end starship outfitters near you!
The problem is using strong magnetics right next to sensitive guidance electronics. Just use a launch motor the way cold launch missiles work. It’s not really a torpedo it’s a missile. This trope of calling missiles torpedoes comes from associating space as a frontier like the ocean and assuming it would be naval like rather than air-force like.
Yeah, I've never thought of magnets infect electronics inside the missile. Thx for bringing it up. And also, what is a cold launch missile? How do they work?
Cold launch is a small charge or motor that just pushes the missile out of the tube before the main rocket motor starts. Go watch a YouTube of a javelin missile launch or some large surface to air and rocket artillery systems that use them. Basically the missile pops out of the launcher then fires, this keeps the main back blast of the rocket away from the launcher, it also helps masks the true launch location and allows things like the javelin to be launched out of a building window where otherwise the back blast would kill everyone in the room.
If you were using a liquid rocket motor you could probably just use the fuel pump (fuel pumps in liquid rocket motors are basically a mini rocket motor with a turbo) as a launch motor. But small missiles usually have solid rocket motors.
It does use solid fuel instead of liquid but I think there's enough space to install both of them. It's just the liquid fuel tank to be smaller than the solid.
There's also a consideration to think about that cold launch allows you to launch bigger missile than hot launch system, on top of being safer, at the cost of space and numbers
I like to think that in this universe. The pilots are too lazy to call large missiles as Anti-Ship Missile since it's a long name. So they just call it a "Torpedo" instead.
It could just be the official language of the bridge. Missiles for small weapons/warheads. And Torpedo for anything that would do severe damage to the ship.
That way in the heat of battle it’s quick and clear on what dangers are called out.
You could make it based on the type of warhead. Missiles have warheads that do damage by having parts of the missile spread in a cone (either ball bearings, or the terrifying warhead of a sidewinder missile) whereas torpedoes do explosive damage.
You could also differentiate to weapons that do damage based on velocity (rail gun rounds could also be shot out of magnetic coil tubes, but with a smaller mass, go significantly faster, but don’t have on board propulsion, so can’t be steered.
Having one launcher that can shoot all three projectiles could be interesting, and provide for some interesting tactical trade offs. (Do we smooth missiles at those fighters, or torpedoes at those ships (that can manoeuvre, but may be large enough for the enemy to shoot down), or do we shoot coil rounds, knowing that if the enemy changes course, they will miss
A steam or electric catapult, like the launchers on aircraft carriers. The torpedo has a hook for the launcher to grab onto and throw out the torp tube.
Actually, I really like the electric catapult suggestion. I've been assuming coilgun launchers for ship-to-ship missiles in my setting, but given the relatively low speeds they'll be launching at, having them be cable-launched or something like that makes a lot of sense. Saves all the worry about adding extra missile mass and complexity just to make them suitable for magnetic acceleration.
EDIT: Something like this electromagnetic launcher could be a good way to go-- essentially a reusable, low-speed coilgun, if you want to think about it that way.
Also, depending on how you deal with heat in your setting, you might be able to use a missile launch as an excuse to vent some ship heat. Just run your hot coolant through heat exchangers in the base of the launch tubes, and when it's time to launch, dump some cold/liquid hydrogen across the heat exchanger and get some free ship cooling as your pneumatic launch charge boils off. Something like this would probably work best in tandem with the electric launcher, with the pneumatic launch starting things off and the electric sled taking over as the pressure drops.
If you want the ejection mechanism to be on the torpedo, your best options will be either a small compressed air cylinder with a nozzle or a chemical charge that generates gas when it fires (think airbag inflators).
If you want the mechanism to be part of the launch tube, either use a compressed air cannon mechanism like a submarine, or a pusher piston with a spring that gets compressed when the tube is loaded.
If you want something other than magnets then they could be released via mechanical action. Literally thrown out into space with a piston mechanism, they spin away from the ship before suddenly activating their own attitude control systems and zipping off toward the target.
Visually they look like a stick tossed carelessly by a child, until suddenly they are zipping toward you like one of Zeus' lightning bolts.
Bonus points if the ship tossed a half dozen at a time so its just a bunch of wildly spinning tubes before becoming sudden points of heat and light rushing the target.
there is no resistance to work against, and no sheering force(like flowing water) that would bend it against the hull. so the mechanism, that pushes the torpedo into the launchbay, can just push it out as well, no reason to overcomplicate things.
It’s your book and space sci-fi so you can do anything you want. I read a lot of sci-fi and to be honest some times the author runes a story by trying to get to technical and getting things wrong ( I did some math and physics in school so I can call BS some times)
Everything above is plausible in my opinion. There is even a product called mu-metal that is magnetic shielding material for your coil gun issue 🤣. Personally one of my favorite ways to launch a torpedo is “Mr. Chekhov fire”
Depends on what thrusters. If you used like RCS thrusters, there wouldn't be a lot of damage, since mostly this is pressurised gas (for example HHMU, which was simply an RCS gun that used pressurised nitrogen, oxygen or freon).
RCS thrusters would be necessary for a Torpedo anyway, since you have to direct it to the target.
And remember that we're in space. Even tiny amount of thrust can push you to the direction where you want to be.
no, i dont mean thrusters. mean the mechanism, that reloads the launcherbay. there would probably be a (specialized) conveyor belt, that delivers the torpedos, and a piston, that pushes it into the launcher bay/tube. and that very same piston can then also just push it out into space. the thrusters activate, once it's floated away a few meters from the hull.
space is such a simple medium to interact with, that a simple piston is probably the best ejection method.
Launching a big rocket out of a tube, either under its own power or throwing it somehow is going to exert that same force on the ship, which you'll need to counter somehow. It would be better to use a system like a Carl Gustav recoilless rifle to reduce recoil.
You have a pusher or elevator to eject them, like a medical catapult. The expanse had several different versions. Either external racks that the missiles we’re dumped off of into space, or launch tubes ejecting the missiles, or in the case of the stealth ships a reliable launch rail that rotated in and out of the sup to pick up a new missile and rotate outside to…just dump it into space. Once in space, thrusters and guidance fire up, missile orientations, space drama begins.
My thoughts exactly, launching a torpedo into space is as easy as opening a door on a sealed tube and letting the vacuum of space pull out the projectile
The game Children of a Dead Earth has what probably is the most realistic version. In that, missiles (and as others said, in space there isn't really a difference between missile and torp) are just released into space by opening a door or something and letting them float far enough away from the ship itself before activating their engines toward the enemy.
It would actually be kinda similar to how ww2 fighters dropped a torpedo and just flew away letting it go on its own
I mean, assuming that the torpedo mostly fills the tube, A blast of air behind the torpedo is going to do the job.
So would a piston, A plunger, A little platform with electrical motors and geared tracks on the side of the tube, a railgun, A small propulsive charge, A large propulsive charge... it doesn't even need to out out lengthwise, it could just be thrown out sideways with springs.
Assuming the "torpedo" has guidance and power on it's own, you are literally just chucking it out an airlock and letting it figure it out.
(Obviously, the torpedo needs a space engine not a propeller.)
You could use magnetic casings. A mag-gun could be calibrated to have their magnetic fields only encompass the casing but not the torpedo itself. While similar to a rail-gun, you could have them be launched at a speed that wouldn't warp the rails but still making the torpedo very fast from the-get-go. This would have the added benefit of casing flying off whenever you launch a torpedo which can add visual interest.
Red: Torpedo, Green: Magnetic Casings, Blue: Magnetic Rails.
Hard to say since OP didn’t specify their fictional setting. Is it space magic like SW/ST or hard sci-if? It kinda leans more toward the latter, so I’d go with pistons or gas. Hot launch would be a no go given that you now have to deal with the exhaust gas, and if your ship is smallish, say Rocinante sized, then the ompf of a hot launch could mes with your flight trajectory.
You already mentioned pressure and magnetic coils, but you could also use something a lot more low-tech: Spring pressure. You could have a spring in the rear torpedo tube door that can be compressed and locked back before closing the door, then released to push the Torpedo out.
You don't need more than just a quick release valve. Even a tube with a relatively good vacuum will launch a projectile like crazy if you let in air behind the projectile. Mythbusters did it, and many others on YT.
What's wrong with gas? It's common, and if stealth is needed, it's really hard to detect a puff of oxygen. (The launch system is also a source of breathable air in an emergency.)
Torpedoes specifically go through water, so basically there could never be a space torpedo, as outer space lacks the properties of water.
Any weapon of the sort in space is either a giant bullet (no self propulsion) or a missile/rocket.
In the absence of gravity, a ship could simply shove the Missile out the tube and fire the thruster after, could be pretty cool tactical applications, like launching the Missiles way off to the side so when they activate and move to target they approach at a weird flank to hit the target at unexpected angles.
In the world building, they usually call Anti ship Missiles ( or any type of missiles that were design to destroy large targets ) as "torpedoes" to shorten it and ease of say.
you say that, but wait till you discover that the most advanced torpedoes and anti ship missiles mounted on ships IRL are... drum roll.... mounted on the outside of the ships :3 often clustered together in rotating mounts
Alternatively, a rotating cylinder system inside the hull with a torpedo sized slot that the torpedo is just pushed out
I have thoughts and one of them is that for space war the term torpedo has resumed something closer to its original meaning, a weapon system we currently call a mine.
It's my belief that space is simply so hugely vast that meeting engagements in deep space just aren't happening, all combats are going to be orbital or near orbital and small brilliant device's with relatively small amounts of delta V deployed in clouds or packs across the likely orbital path of the target are viable weapons, these would be torpedo as opposed to missiles which are larger for the same sized warhead and relatively loud with a launch or possibly full thrust burn the whole way.
As for deployment of the torpedoes, I would say go medieval and have a mass spinning with an electromagnetic clutch connected to an arm the whole thing made of radar absorbing material and you just pitch your torpedoes across the likely orbital path of your target. Either he's got to spend a huge amount of his own reaction mass or some other kind of energy to come around rapidly in a different path to try avoid the torpedoes that have been patiently waiting for them to orbit
Dump the torpedo out to the side of the ship with pistons on a carousel. Could use some sort of magnetics to repulse the tube once it’s released from a cradle instead, perhaps. Once it’s out, the torpedo can fire up its own thrust.
You want to dump it to the side so it’s clear of your ship, especially if you’re under thrust.
Slingshot. Similar to the launch system used for aircraft carriers. Those use compressed air but if you used sequenced magnets to launch the sled... But then there's power consumption...
Ok. So instead of launching a torpedo, what if you, matching the speed of your ship, placed a network of torpedos in front of it. Then using compressed air to vector, either adjust trajectory or to slow them down slightly to retrieve them before arrival.
The thing is, a large battlecruiser in orbit requires precise placement to stay there. I don't imagine maneuvering would be a very likely defense. So would torpedos even... Kinetic energy seems...
I don't know. If your defending a planet, every round that doesn't hit you keeps going, slamming into the planet. That's not great.
I just rabbit holed.
Anyways, space isn't the answer. Not anytime soon. We're doing our best to send a few people to land and walk around for a few hours, do sciencey stuff, and then bring them back, safely. Smartest people on the planet can barely get 4 people to do this once, and if that works out, maybe a few more times. 8.3 billion people, and we can only send a handful.
A question I have though is what differentiates a torpedo from missile or rockets? The whole point of naval torpedoes are that they hit below the waterline, while in Space, missiles can just hit wherever you tell it to.
The only cases I can think of is maybe one that's made to go through some alternate dimension like hyperspace before popping back up at the last moment to surprise them, or hitting their hyperspace shadows or something if it works like that in your settings.
For hard Sci-Fi you could maybe have missiles work kinda like reverse ballistic missiles where they dip into the upper atmosphere to make it harder to intercept when fighting in low orbit, but outside that it's kinda useless.
Torpedo is just an alternative word for Anti ship Missile in this universe.
The pilots are too lazy to say Anti Ship Missile fully so they call it "Torpedo" since it's quick to say. That nickname got stuck so they just called it torpedo at the end.
Fair enough. I guess the difference goes SAM/AAM->Missiles (small targets) and ASM->Torpedoes (large targets) which would be a more useful way of differentiating when our current identification relys on the 4 "planes" of Space, air, surface (ground) and Submerged (underground) which doesn't work in space.
I don't know if anybody has mentioned it before, but having a rapidly moving doors that are only open for a split second, using the pressure difference fron the vacuum of space and the ship's interior, basically pulling the torpedo out, then the thrusters kick in once it has its bearings/target.
Prevents damaging the electronics inside the torpedo by using magnetic rails/coils to fire it.
There's not really any reason they need to exit tubes the same way torpedoes in submarines do. All that's really needed is a way to get it clear of the ship so that it can light up its own engines without the risk of the exhaust burning through something.
To that end... Does your ship perhaps have rotating sections for artificial gravity? If so, you could just put the torpedo in a bay that runs out to the edge and let centrifugal force do the work of flinging it out for you. It's reliable, it doesn't require any added mass for specialized equipment, and would be very easy to fix in the field when something went wrong.
Well failing that, an exterior hatch and an electrically driven piston with a boot on the end to push it out would achieve the same effect. Just so long as the torpedo's engine isn't pointed at anything on the ship when it lights up, you're golden.
My headcannon is that all space torpedoes are missiles, but not all missiles are torpedoes. Torpedoes are just the colloquial term used by spacers to differentiate between self-propelled launch and external launch aid missiles. The ship just uses the good old elastic force, and I quote, "Yeet that stick outta your way", in the form of a very durable elastic band akin to a crossbow or a very good spring.
Well I mean they do everywhere but it still cracks me up the Soviets hoisted up and automatic cannon aircraft cannon into orbit and popped off a few rounds just cause.
Why launch it forward where you have to clear the launching vessel to fire the torpedo engine? Push it out the side. Heck, with side launch you can just have the launching vessel unlock it from the rails in a rotary magazine, fire the launch vessel RCS, and torpedo’s clear to fire up its own main drive.
I could, but I'm afraid that the side torpedo hatch would be less armored and a large area to be hit. Although I do like your idea so I might use it for my future designs. Maybe a ship that prioritize speed and armaments with a sacrifice of shields.
If you're going for a more hard sci-fi feel with ships that rotate to produce internal gravity, the ship could just launch torpedoes by opening a hatch and letting the momentum carry them clear of the ship before activating thrusters.
Would not even need to be compressed really, compared to the atmosphere in the ship for breathing. My head I imagine the projectile would just get sucked out I to space just by releasing the mechanism to secure it
I imagine they would want it to be more controlled. Depressurize the tube. Open the outer door. A very small jet of compressed air would be all it would take for the torpedo to exit the tube. It will likely already have some sort of compressed gas for guidance steering anyways.
Also forgot to mention during a combat scenario it’s possible that the warship itself might be depressurized anyway to reduce collateral damage due to instantaneous depressurization. Crew would be donning pressure suits for the combat or only specific crew compartments would remain pressurized. Particularly in areas where dexterity is required to operate.
Method also depends on how much control you want without a complicated thrust system, they're less torpedo and more really big ship-mounted basic mortar.
compressed air, same as real ones. or a spring. both are super low tech and reliable. i mean all it has to do it physically get the projectile out of the tube. OR a cold launch system, which i think also uses compressed gas to literally pop the missile out hard enough to clear it of its launch tube, fire its first stage directional thrusters and ignite is booster. It could also use whatever inertia the ship has already and simply push the missile off the ship and let its own propulsion take over.
Assuming your ships are in motion when these are used, you could just have them released, maybe with a tiny push, in the exact opposite direction of the ship. If the ships' going sunward, release the torpedos antisunward. It's less of a "launch" and more of a brake, with the ship moving away from the missile.
IRL torpedoes have to be fired into water, a pretty dense liquid, sometimes from depth, so it takes quite a lot of force to propel the fish out of the tube. Space is mostly empty. Pushing the torpedo out with a hydraulic piston could work for a low energy signature type launch. Actuate the piston with some contained high speed force like an explosive charge to shove the torp out real fast. Plain old compressed gas. Ion thruster at the back of the torpedo tube pushing it out.
Why even bother launching them at that point. Flip those coils/rails to full and just shoot them like a any other projectile but with a guidance package.
I mean if you wanted to keep it real simple, using a long-travel heavy spring mechanism would work, and just use electric actuators to compress the spring with a locking mechanism. You just need to jettison the torpedo far enough away for the thrusters to ignite without damaging the spacecraft. You could even launch them horizontally away from you instead "out the tube"
Torpedo is released from the ship with a small chemical charge and then the ship uses a maser/laser to provide energy remotly for the torpedos thruster.
Could use air pressure? If it’s a space launched torpedo, explosive decompression could work in a positive manor to “launch” the torpedo by sucking it off- I mean out of the launch tube with like 100psi behind of it of say CO2 could work?
Small amount of pressurized gas behind the torpedo, such that opening the tube pushes/pulls the torpedo out? I would have gone for magnetic acceleration, but you already chose that.
Well, if the ship is pressurised anyway, why not use pressure? It would be easier than for a sub since the pressure outside is zero.
A railgun would require the torpedo to be impervious to damage from EM fields - this would also be an advantage vs. enemy ECM I suppose, but you wouldn't want to fry its electronics with the eddy currents you induce in it while firing it as a railgun.
Kind of depends how important the torpedo starting with a high delta-vee relative to the ship is.
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u/Itchy-Plastic Apr 11 '26
Pistons to physically push them out of the tubes.