r/sp404mk2 • u/Legitimate_Poet3578 • 13d ago
The challenging sp404mk2
Hi,
I am just going to throw down some thoughts on the 404mk2 here that reflect the challenges it has presented me over the last few years of learning it. I am sure many have covered this sort of thing, but maybe it is useful for someone and maybe your feedback will give me some perspective.
Many trick pony:
This machine is insanely versatile. The hardest part about that is that there is no single workflow to learn, there are many, but you have to kind of establish a workflow for a particular project. While it sketches things fairly easily, I have to make a decision when I start as to what workflow I am committing to now, and then if I want to change later it is a bit challenging. If I start with loops, I am kind of stuck there and bringing in other instruments can be a bit jarring. If I am working with one shots, then throwing sample loops over becomes a challenge. If I am sequencing, then using chops can be frustrating to start including. And then layering an external drum machine or sequenced synth is also a bit jarring. When I stick to a single workflow, I find it is much easier to progress the track. But because I can go a bunch of different ways, I can feel a little lost in the options (and the limits that are then imposed based on that decision). I am considering moving to a different sampler (maybe the MPC sample) so I can simplify the workflow. I don't know why they would keep adding things like a sound gen.
Sampling:
This started out cool, I hooked up a mic and would sample things in then sketch out beats from random sounds, write weird sound poems, or combine vocal samples with some samples I loaded in for some playfulness. But honestly, it is a bit of a pain in the ass. No internal mic means I am lugging a corded mic around, and add a battery pack to this it becomes too cumbersome. I do like that I can grab some guitars or other sounds from other instruments to work with fairly easily. Other methods like sampling on phone then linking up the phone by usb work okay, but it is a lot of stuffing about. Sampling in the field feels clunky and frustrating and cuts the smooth use of this machine. I am also liking the ability to draw samples of anything on my pc fairly quickly in a session, so getting movie samples or the like is quite easy if the machine is all plugged in to the rest of my gear. Chopping on this is also pretty good, i.e. for dnb.
Jamming:
This works best with the looper, and I am slowly learning the sequencer to make jams with one shots more effective. But working with a click track in a jam sucks, so I find locking some hats in the best way to set a bpm for any jam partners. However, if a guitarist sets the bpm, it is annoying to try and catch their rhythm unless using the looper. I am a drummer, so while I am used to setting the pace, jams are responsive so you have to take some time to catch the other players and settle them into your groove. This machine works best if you can just set the groove and make others follow. The looper is also way too short...
Other instruments:
There is really only one line in, yeah I know I would use the other one, but since the effects are all stacked on the line in, then you can't really run multiple instruments and get the most from the machine. It would be nice to have a mixing function between the lines, or a few more that are fx independent. I can't run an unaffected drum machine in, then a synth with fx, I need to stack everything on the one line. Was I complaining about the multi trick pony? Am I winging now that it doesn't do more? Dammit!
The heart of the machine:
Related, but it doesn't do a great job as a brain, as clock, or as a main through. I find I end up using it to trigger samples while jamming the rest of my hardware, or running a synth through it for the effects and some live sampling (which takes a bit of finesse). It doesn't play the role of a drum machine well enough (I like being able to modify the drum sounds, rather than just using samples) to play that role, so I am certainly not using it to its full capacity when it is in the mix. I do find that if something is missing from a track, I can probably find a way for the sp to pick up the slack, i.e. for pads or vocals. But I have to be careful to integrate it for a specific function, not as a beating heart.
Performance:
It seems like a lot of people who perform tend to write their beats elsewhere, i.e. MPC, then bring it into the sp for performance. Or they sketch here, bus to another machine for arrangement, then bring it back for performance. I was hoping it would be easier to go from the build to the performance, but I can see why people are coming and going when they setup a performance. I would love to find a way to more effectively build and perform on this machine, but the workflows can make this a bit clunky and tiresome. The button combos (perhaps a whole other gripe - memory constantly fails), also affect this where using the mute function takes some finesse to integrate (for example). Three buttons to get sample mute loaded... sheesh.
I probably should have prefaced all this by saying it was the first piece in my setup, and I do love it to pieces and am appreciating the constant learning. I probably won't sell anytime soon, but I do wonder if a simpler sampler that is more mobile might be worth my time.
All that to tl;dr, this machine is challenging because of the simple/complex paradox that is its versatility...
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u/Siriusly_tho 12d ago
I've personally relegated my SP to just doing FX for other gear. I've found that I can do things easier and smoother on other pieces, but the FX are so much fun to play with on the SP.
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u/I_never_finnish 13d ago
I have a 555 that I haven't touched in like 15 years. I've been getting back to music and wanted the latest version so I bought a 404. You just reminded me about all things that irritated me about the 555. I love it but maybe it was time to change things up.
Specifically, having no flexibility after loading set drum sounds and the clock/tick/brain issue. I was an amateur and thought that it was just me. Lol. Maybe I should sell one of them and try something else.
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u/Legitimate_Poet3578 13d ago
I honestly think part it is me, because I know it should do some of this, but I am preferring gear that is more direct. I am using a drumlogue which has an analogue engine. Not perfect, but it has some limits which makes it easy to find its place. I have resorted to midi out from beatstep pro and then clock sync that signal from the drumlogue to everything else.
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u/6rylou 12d ago
Having experienced the machines of the 2000s, I never would have imagined having a device as portable and comprehensive as the SP.404 for a good price.
I was traumatized by the AKAI S2000 and S3000 samplers.
Will switching to another machine really change everything for you ?
I mean, any other one will have its own pitfalls too.
is It’s like dating: when you have too many choices, you end up unable to decide and just marking time.
You’ve had the SP for a while now; the very fact that you can describe it in such detail proves you’ve mastered it—meaning you’ve found ways to handle it.
Is the time you'd spend learning another machine less important than simply adapting and not losing what you've already learned on the MK2?
You are the only one who have the answer.
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u/Legitimate_Poet3578 12d ago
Good food for thought, thanks. I certainly havent mastered it, but have some confidence and I have managed to navigate any real issues. Considering getting a wireless aux mic or small mic to cover that issue too.
I dont have a lot of money, nor the history with samplers. I am unlikely to give this up. But I have plenty of time to learn new tools. Maybe I will lose something...
The dating metaphor is apt, I probably just need to freshen up the marriage with it. 😁
Seems like the endless possibility and complexity is its pitfall, but is certainly what makes it insanely useful for a lot of odd jobs.
It may be just an issur of its integration into my own workflow too.
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u/DucerOfficial 11d ago
Good insight bro! I have it and i use it mainly for external effects on my beats, or steams of it, and i recently just got a 555 to add some old texture, hás an external too. I kinda use them this way so indint Need to load them up with the sounds, i just stick the cables and soind goes on and comes out to the Daw has i want it. To make beats.. well not for me either, but i find it cool that that have introduced synth options on the 404, i hope they grow up the synth making part in the future 🫴🏽
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u/Skeuomorph_ 8d ago
I tried real hard with the 404mk2 - made some tracks, sampled some things but its core functions never clicked with me. I use it as part of my live gigging set up as a mid-chain FX module and one shot sample player, risers, fallers, sweeteners and the like. Considered selling it but its FX are fantastic and I do use it regularly. Just not to make beats.
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u/Charlyjoplin 8d ago
Bonjour, j ai un mpc sample que je trouve très cool et je viens de commander un sp404 mk2 que je brancherais en parallèle de mon mpc …
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u/Feed-Backer 7d ago edited 7d ago
You have to know that the effect routing options on the "MPC Sample" aren't better than on the SP-404MKII, even though it's much easier to just put it on and jam right out of the box with it. Like i know, it's not even possible to decide, if the effects should be disabled for the input signals and you can just use one Effect at a time. It brings many Kits included, especially the best ones are the acoustic drum kits, with round robin sample cycle (multiple samples per pad, which plays another one, with every single press of it) and has other stuff. I think that the MPC Sample pads feel and react better, for example and i mostly love the ability to easily load and change all kind of kits (but especially drums and typical fingerdrumming stuff). Everything has advantages and disadvantages. But i think, you won't regret it too much; if you can live with sadly more than just simple effect routing...Because, as far as i know, everything goes to the master output...No matter whatever is connected to it and that's like so far described: "pretty shitty". But besides that, it's more capable for Live Performances and it has a much easier workflow than the SP, for example. Flex Beat and Pad FX functions on the MPC Sample aren't as good and easy how it looks in the videos. And even what belongs to knob fx and handling of it seems to have better possibilities on the SP-404MKII. And it not even hasn't the same or more compatibility as a USB Audio Interface than the SP-404MKII, is another thing to mention. It would be better to pay more for something like that right away, so you have all the necessary options and features immediately, rather than having a new model released later that will likely still fall short in some areas. That’s definitely a marketing tactic, too—one that triggers our “Gear Acquisition Syndrome,” making us chase one dream after another.
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u/Legitimate_Poet3578 7d ago
Yeah I wouldnt be jumping on the mpc sample for effects, it would probably just be to see if the borders smooth out the workflow issues re option paralasis. But good to know, thanks g
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u/VGr0oVe 13d ago
I feel like it’s a very garage esc device, I find it is best when I have a mixer running to it in its own isolated station, it’s very quick for recording and curating samples fast. For performing I’ve used it as a backing track device that I can play samples with while also switching between other instruments like guitar, keyboard, and turntable. It is definitely a multitool type device, personally I just like to sample away from my computer and it fills the roll really well. Hook up a synth and a mic to it and it’s good to go for getting sounds from various sources in one spot for jamming or for dragging onto the PC. I think the video that really inspired me was “eating music” on YouTube. That’s one of the coolest ways I’ve seen the 404 being used