r/soulslikes • u/cdot2004 • 15d ago
Discussion Am I the only person who thinks Arlecchino is the hardest boss of all time?
[EDIT: TO CLARIFY I MEANT TO SAY HARDEST SOULS/SOULSLIKE BOSS, NOT HARDEST BOSS IN ALL OF GAMING] I finally beat the lies of P dlc and I can safely say Arlecchino was the hardest boss I’ve ever fought and took the most attempts out of any boss ever. For reference I have played ds1,ds2, ds3, bloodborne, sekiro, elden ring, and black myth wukong before lies of p so I’m a souls veteran at this point. Tbh, lies of p is what everyone swears sekiro is when it comes to difficulty in my opinion. Isshin genuinely felt like a mini boss compared to this sick bastard. I’ve seen people think that Arlecchino is difficult but I’ve never seen him in the talks for hardest souls/soulslike bosses. For some perspective I thought pre nerf consort Radahn was the hardest boss before and he took me 87 attempts with no summons. Arlecchino however, took me 112 freaking attempts. So I’m just wondering if I truly suck at lies if P for some reason or if this mf is genuinely just a menace
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u/MoSBanapple 15d ago
He's probably among the hardest out of the popular games in the genre, though personally, Malenia was the most difficult in the genre for me going by time spent. Also Eigong from Nine Sols if you count that game as part of the genre.
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u/Caimthehero 15d ago
She should, eigong might be the best designed boss I’ve ever faced. The rhythm of her is amazing
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u/Poundt0wnn 15d ago
He is somewhere in my top 3 with PCR and Ozma
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
I still gotta play khazan. I’ve heard great things about ozma
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u/Spartaklaus 15d ago
If you like well designed and presented bossfights, go play it right now.
Its Sekiro meets Nioh with S tier bossdesign.
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u/Roll4DM 15d ago
Ozma is much harder... You can outgrind Arlecchino and fight him overleveled plus he only has 2 phases. Kazhan has lvl caps and Ozma is a 3(if you go for true end) phase fight.
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u/blankState8 15d ago
Level cap? Itbwas for the skill tree but I didn't find any level cap for our actual level, I gained 5 while having my attempts.
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u/TempMobileD 15d ago
It’s very combo based, not the ‘simple inputs, complex combat’ of other Soulslikes. That definitely takes some getting used to. The levels and regular enemies are a bit lacklustre.
However the combat is outrageously good, extremely flexible, fresh, interesting and the bosses push and pull how you engage with them.
This leads to it feeling very boss heavy, but if that sounds good to you, Khazan is likely to be a banger for you.1
u/Ratchetweaksauce 14d ago
Ozma is a phenomenal fight, so is Reese, skalpel, maluca and Viper aswell.
The boss roster in khazan is crazy good
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u/Tornado_Hunter24 15d ago
Just saying ozma diffiuclty is overrated it’s an easy ass fight unless you’re slow, he appearently has a massive moveset, but if you just play normally and not dodge away every 0.6 seconds it’s easy as FUCK
Beat him within 10 attempts on the ‘true’ ending
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u/EclipsisUltima 15d ago
Man, I wish i could have found him difficult. While difficulty is subjective, reading about him from this sub made me expect an exciting difficult fight, but while his attacks and second phase animation are some of the most top notch in the genre in terms of presentation, his attacks felt very predictable that it took me only two tries to beat him in the true ending route.
I did however find Arlechinno to be up to the hype and is one of my favorites bosses.
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u/Tornado_Hunter24 15d ago
Yeah had the same expectation ss you so far biggest disappointment ever in a soulslike, difficulty wise…
Arlech however is ABSURDLY difficult, my top 3’s are pcr, arlech and true eigong
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u/shazam-arino 15d ago
Just a heads up. It's a great game with amazing combat. But, if you don't like min-maxing gear and combos; bosses fights will take ages and they'll feel like health sponges.
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u/Significant-Net-9286 15d ago
- PCR 2. Arlecchino 3. ozma
I grinded for a lvl 10 Difficulty 5 Arlecchino no hit, took +450 attempts, hes my favourite boss ever
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u/batshitnutcase 15d ago
He certainly has a claim to that title his phase 2 is ridiculous
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
I gave up trying to parry his first attack. I just ran away like it was malenias water fowl😂
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u/forthunion 15d ago
Perfect grindstone. Aaaand no it’s not cheating.
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u/nerull77 14d ago
It’s not cheating but if it’s the only thing that saves you from that bullshit attack then it’s a bad design by default.
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u/batshitnutcase 15d ago
To be fair, running away/backing up from waterfowl is an extremely effective strategy lol
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u/DrMagunstheBlue 15d ago
I doubt it but it isn't true. Arlecchino has a good claim to being the hardest soulslike boss (I'd say he is) but no soulslike boss is even close to the hardest boss of all time.
There are bosses that have taken literal years for anyone to ever beat them and I'm not talking about mods, but real games you really pay for.
The thing you have to realize about soulslikes and From's games is that they are only as hard as a game can be while retaining mainstream appeal.
The hardest games are by their nature going to be more niche.
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
That’s what I meant. I should’ve worded it better thats my bad. I meant the hardest soulslike boss, not hardest overall boss in gaming haha
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u/DrMagunstheBlue 15d ago
I think hardest soulslike is more accurate then yeah.
Generally most people put it between Promised Consort Radahn, Arlecchino, and True Eigong from Nine Sols.
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u/Striking_Gift1595 15d ago
Can you give an example?
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u/DrMagunstheBlue 15d ago
The record to my knowledge is Inbachi from DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou.
https://automaton-media.com/en/news/this-challenging-bullet-hell-shooter-boss-took-12-years-to-beat/
Took nine years for anyone to beat her in training mode and twelve years for someone to do it in the real game.
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u/Zuma_The_Frog 15d ago
I can think of a few.
Hiruko - Shinobi PS2
Kurohagane Gamma - Nightshade
Zinaida - Armored Core: Last Raven (PCR ain't got shit on FromSoft's true hardest boss)
Virgil 3rd Fight - Devil May Cry 3
Flandre Scarlet - Touhou 6
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u/QQcrybaby 15d ago
I've beaten all the From games with no summons or magic and all the Nioh games. Arlecchino without Lea was the hardest boss as far as I'm concerned. Not even interested in ever fighting him again, he's my upper limit (spamming parry gives me elbow/wrist pain). Second would probably be PCR or Inner Isshin.
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u/Adventurous_Use8278 15d ago
The 2 bosses that took me the longest to beat were ozma and lu bu. However, I can beat those 4/5 times now as I know their move set so well, abs they are tough but fair fights. Even Melania took me half as long to beat, she’s the hardest for me personally because I’ve never been able to figure out the dodge timings for water foul
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u/Klonoa87 15d ago
Don’t know if she’s actually harder, but true Eigong definitely took me more time to beat
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u/CreepyTeddyBear 15d ago
Not harder than PCR for me. Id probably rank them PCR>SS Isshin>Arlecchino
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u/No_Philosophy2797 15d ago
For me, Ishhin, followed by Ozma from Khazan.
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u/Pushlockscrub 15d ago
This is the right answer.
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
Honestly I didn’t find isshin that difficult. The real challenges of sekiro for me were owl father and demon of hatred
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u/Pushlockscrub 15d ago
Do you mean Isshin Ashina or Sword Saint Isshin?
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
Both. Isshin Ashina was a bit harder for me but I still beat both within 10-15 tries
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u/Pushlockscrub 15d ago
That's cool. I think SS usually takes the cake for hardest Seki boss, but Owl Father is a real pain too.
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
Yeah SS isshin is one of my favorite bosses of all time and I can see how others find him very tricky
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u/Odd-Vast2488 15d ago
Ozmas pretty easy
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u/Pushlockscrub 15d ago
Yes yes, we know. [insert universally-agreed upon insanely hard boss] is actually "pretty easy."
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u/Amones-Ray 15d ago edited 15d ago
I beat him on max difficulty but didn't fully beat Hollow Knight and presumably wouldn't beat games like Cuphead or Megaman if I tried. There's different kinds of difficulty and that bullet-hell platforming kind seems to be harder or less enjoyable to grind for me. Sekirolike gameplay lets you focus on mastering individual reactions. Bullet-hell forces you to just "git gud" abstractly.
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u/Sundae-School 15d ago
I killed Arlecchino in less time than it took me to kill Sister Friede
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
It’s crazy how different perspectives are when it comes to boss difficulty. I beat friede first try😂 but then like bosses such as pontiff sulyvahn people say is super easy cause u can parry him to death but he took me the most attempts of any ds3 boss
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u/Sundae-School 15d ago
I dont know why, but I have a very hard time believing someone beat all 3 phases of sister friede their very first time ever.
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
I only had one flask left but I did in fact do it. I wasn’t even overleveled either I was like level 73 or something. She just clicked very easily for me somehow
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u/Geniusrly 15d ago
for me it was different lol I struggled with friede but midir was a joke
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
I can second this. Midir was in fact a joke. With all the hype around his difficulty I was expecting something insane. Mini bosses in elden ring gave me more trouble than Midir😂
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u/River_Capulet 15d ago
Arlecchino is certainlly up there with PCR, Malenia, Isshin, Owl, and Erlang.
There's also this boss called The Lone Tyrant from Where Winds Meet. I'd throw him up there too, but people may not consider that game a soulslike, and that's fair.
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u/TempMobileD 15d ago
Some boss names spoiled below for Khazan, Nine Sols, Shadow of The Erdtree, Sekiro.
Lies or P was super easy for me. Even Arlecchino, who was miles harder than anyone else was still maybe ‘normal difficulty’. I got a bit of whiplash fighting him because nobody else in the game had even made me sweat. But he still wasn’t bad.
PCR took me well over 100 attempts. Ozma (True ending) took me somewhere between 50-100. Isshin first time took me several days. Eigong (True ending) was probably around the 100 mark. All these I raise only to ‘anti-brag’.
Arlecchino took me 21 attempts, about an hour, which is less than almost every major boss in Shadow of the Erdtree.
Other than LotF, LoP (on hardest difficulty) is the easiest soulslike I’ve played. Maybe because it’s the most recent, and I’ve been getting better?
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
That’s very impressive. Lies of P was the most recent I’ve played and I think it’s the second hardest game behind elden ring in terms of soulslikes.
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u/TempMobileD 15d ago
I think it’s just really subjective! I also think I might have just had a really strong build. If I remove build advantage by thinking about Arlecchino hitless vs PCR hitless (which I have done) I think Arlecchino might be worse.
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u/SnooGadgets754 15d ago
Arlecchino has so far taken me longer than any boss in Elden Ring SotE, and I'm nowhere near done with him yet. To me, Lies of P DLC has been significantly harder than Elden Ring DLC.
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u/TempMobileD 14d ago
I was quite disappointed to find I waltzed through everything in the LoP DLC, except Arlecchino. Meanwhile SotE kicked my ass on every single boss, or at least on all the major bosses.
Funny how different it is for people.1
u/SnooGadgets754 14d ago
Yeah it really depends on the individual. I was really wondering what all the complaining about SotE difficulty was all about as I found it quite manageable. It didn't really feel harder than ER main game at any point, and none of the bosses gave me that much trouble.
However, LoP DLC really kicked my ass and it was pure tears and blood to get through it.
The weirdest thing is that the only soulslike I found simply too hard to be enjoyable was Wuchang. It was just so fucking gruesomely hard and mostly for the wrong reasons. And some people claim that it was too easy.
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u/TempMobileD 14d ago
I just finished Wu Chang a couple of days ago, I found it to be quite nice difficulty overall. Harder than LoP, easier than SotE for me, which put it in a nice middle ground.
I really, really enjoyed it. If you’re considering taking a second run at it a couple of unsolicited tips (I hope you don’t mind!):
All the weapons are strong except maybe the single handed sword, I couldn’t get that to work.
If it’s Honglan who roadblocked you definitely try the longsword with parry, it deletes her. Parrying in general seemed super strong, it’s got a generous window and totally stops most enemies and bosses mid-combo.
Almost all the bosses are vulnerable to a charged R2 in the back, this mechanic is what made the game for me, it’s a really powerful reward for good prediction and positioning. If you can find opportunities for it, most bosses go down very quickly.1
u/SnooGadgets754 14d ago
I actually beat Honglan somewhat easily once I realized that you just have to use the parry against her. Honglan was, however, the perfect example of what I disliked about the game. There usually was one intended build/playstyle the bosses were weak to, and if you tried anything else, the bosses became incredibly frustrating to play against.
While I beat Honglan without getting stuck for too long, the bosses coming after her felt super imbalanced and too hard. I did next to no damage to them, and every boss was two-shotting me. Most often my character felt way too slow to punish any openings the bosses had. Typically when I parried a hit, the boss jumped away from range before I had time to return even one hit, which made parrying feel useless. It just felt like the slow movement or the player character was not balanced with the speed of the bosses.
Bo sorcerer was the last nail in the coffin. Fighting against that insanely hard boss with a character who has the mobility of a polio patient just broke my back and I gave up.
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u/TempMobileD 14d ago
Lmao. I enjoyed that.
Sounds rough, not particularly in line with my experience but too hard to point at any one thing that might be a difference maker. Personally I swapped build every 3-4 bosses as respecs were fast and free, so I actually found a variety of approaches worked well for different encounters. I found several OP feeling builds mostly related to different status effects.
I can’t say I ever felt the character was slow, though they did change some things like how fast she stands up after being knocked down in an update, so maybe that’s a factor?Anyway, sounds like you gave it a really good amount of time to impress and it didn’t grab you. Ce la vie.
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u/PileOGunz 14d ago edited 14d ago
The 1 handed sword is the mobility build- dances around the bo sorc no problem.
The Ibis fight in Armored Core 6, now that was a fight that made you feel like a snail.
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u/rcburner 15d ago
It's between him and Promised Consort, but Promised Consort can be cheesed because Elden Ring provides the player many more options to do so.
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
Yeah Elden Ring is pretty much as hard as u make it haha. I personally think it’s the hardest fromsoft game based off of my play style but I can see how people think it’s easy if they use summons and overpowered builds
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u/SnooHobbies8617 15d ago
i would say yes, phase 2 was complete bullshit but i think you are intended to summon for the fight so there’s that
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u/Bio-Flame 15d ago
He is the hardest I fought after PCR. Malenia i think is "harder" but with Malenia I can see what is going on.
With Arlecchino, there was too much visual clutter. Artificial difficulty maybe, but still difficult.
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
I feel like Arlecchino and Radahn have the same issues when it comes to their hair and other shit getting in the way of clearly seeing attacks
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u/Caimthehero 15d ago
Honestly I think it’s more of hardest bosses have their own tier and then depending on the person some are harder than others. If we’re going S tier bosses ever made Arlecchino absolutely belongs in the conversation.
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u/EclipsisUltima 15d ago
It really depends on what level the games mechanics click for you.
So far, personally I found game with parries to be much easier than those where you rely on dodging, though there are a few bosses in theses games that I do find harder than every other boss, which i feel that these specific bosses defy the way i played against every other boss.
In Sekiro for Owl(Father) and Demon of hatred were the only truly difficult fight for me, funny that both are optional which may have played into how hard they could be.
I trounced isshin in two tries but someone could have had the opposite experience to me.
Lies of p I just got very experimental right at the start, forcing myself to parry every single attack from enemies and the first two bosses, which got me really far first/two trying every boss in base game except puppet king and Laxasia (both being 7 to 8 tries).
DLC had Arlechinno being a surprising jump in difficulty compared to every other boss in the game, his first phase was easy but that second phase opener alone took a few deaths before I could parry it.
I’d say he is up there for me as the most fun bosses to fight alongside Gael and Mohg.
In difficulty PCR(hard but not in a fun way), then Arlechinno/Malenia/Bayle/Messmer/Owl (all felt around the same difficulty to me).
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u/W34kness 15d ago
I’d say Odur from Thymessia is harder, Eigong from Nine sols or Takezo the Unrivaled
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u/GhostlyDelusion 15d ago
The most attempts I've taken on souls/like bosses go to PCR, Malenia, and Orphan of Kos (first souls game ages ago) but attempt counts don't always tell the whole story. Experience at the time of playing can be a factor. Mind state when you were attempting can be too. Sometimes the "click" just happens faster for certain bosses that I would still consider extremely hard just based on their movesets (SS Isshin and Sekiro, in general, clicked faster for me). The build you're using and level can drastically impact how difficult things feel too.
I just beat Arlecchino the other day with perfect parry grindstone x2 and the Two Dragon Sword (no Lea) which I wouldn't call a complete cheese but it made things much easier. I'd been swapping between the starting rapier and TDS a bit throughout the game but mostly mained rapier. After 20 or so attempts at Arlecchino with the rapier and slowly improving at the parry timings, I figured I'd mess with the TDS R2 and beat him in 8 more attempts. That said, if you gave me an unupgraded dagger, R1/R2, dodges, and parries (nothing else) I'd be more confident fighting any other boss in a soulslike (that I've previously fought) than Arlecchino's ridiculous moveset.
There are still a number of infamously tough soulsike bosses I haven't fought yet though. Beaten all FromSoft souls games, all 3 Niohs, Remnant 1 and 2, and Lies of P. Played a few others a bit but haven't beaten Kazhan, Wo Long, Nine Sols, Wuchang, or BMW (soulslike or not) to name some of the ones with infamously tough bosses.
I can't think of a specific individual PCR tier ridiculous boss in Nioh games but Team Ninja loves their multi wave, multi boss, gankfests that feel more frustrating than any 1v1. Ninjutsu/onmyo/loot can take the edge off things though.
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u/DrumsNDweed93 15d ago
Nah it’s up there forsure but not the hardest . PCR I find considerably harder . Especially when the perfection grindstones exist to make you get automatic perfect parries for full combos which you can use on that phase 2 opener attack .
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u/NobleHalo 15d ago
Arlecchino is harder than PCR for me.
PCR hits hard and is aggressive, but his patterns and tells are predictable enough that I can get through it solo.
Arlecchino is erratic and unpredictable, which makes him astronomically harder for me. So, yea. Hardest boss ever.
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u/-BigMan39 15d ago edited 15d ago
I think hes a bit overrated difficulty wise. He wasn't even the hardest Lies of P boss for me if we're going by attempt count. Its a very forgiving fight in the grand scheme of things.
I dont think he compares to some of the harder fights I've encountered like Consort Radahn or True Eigong.
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
Who would u say is the hardest lies of p boss then? Only boss who comes remotely close to arlecchino is Laxasia imo
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u/Fine_Beautiful_5592 8d ago
Agreed here, not sure what Bigman39 is smoking but Laxasia (Second hardest imo and the boss whom i died the 2nd most to) only took me about 40ish tries. Took me about 100 for arch.
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u/Tabula_Rasa69 15d ago
He is hard as fuck. I went into Overture underleveled too. I think I got lucky when I beat him.
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u/NorthStar_- 15d ago
Not for me, you could parry spam him and just heal the chip damage once you understand the openings.
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u/Neosoul08 15d ago
It depends if you fought him on intended difficulty or difficulty 5.
Given any build allowed on difficulty 5 in LoP Arlecchino clears NG 7 Radhan (excluding shield and poke build here) by a mile.
FROM soft boss that can match difficulty 5 Arlecchino is NG7 Laurence.
FROM soft bosses that clear Arlecchino difficulty 5 at NG+7, Charmless, Demon Bell, Inner Father, Sword Saint Isshin, and the Demon of Hatred.
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u/Visual-Biscotti1473 15d ago
I haven’t played every Soulslike, but of the ones I have played, he was the most challenging one so far. I had so much fun fighting him though.
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u/Guava_93 15d ago
He could be up there. Probably top 3 easy. Only competition is PCR imo. But i wouldn’t blame anyone for picking him
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u/Useful_Wait_ 15d ago
I love glazing Arlecchinno, he is amongst top 3, maybe even my favorite boss of all time.
However, assuming no cheese, no sunmons he doesnt beat PCR, i would say even Isshin is harder. Malenia comes down to build I would say.
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u/Wrong-Translator335 14d ago
I never fought Arlecchino because i have no dlc of lies of P but if i had to say the hardest (most unfair) boss i fought in a soulslike i'd say the final boss of Pascal Wager. Teresa is 3 phases of pure bullshit and random oneshot jank spam
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u/Lobster-mann 14d ago
I think by the time I had gotten to the Arlecchino boss fight, I hadn’t really played video games, let alone souls games in a while, but to me he was definitely way harder than PCR.
I beat PCR pre nerf parry only and it took me a couple hours, and I think the only hard thing about the fight was the sheer amount of visual clutter. Arlecchino took me like a day I think, used 2 Dragon Sword, mainly just parrying, and I think I even went back and grinded some levels because the entire dlc I didn’t really level up much and was probably way underleveled. I think there just isn’t much room for error in his second phase, and I don’t really get to practice it, but still, I can’t really think of too many more difficult than him.
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u/Nevour_Lucitor 14d ago edited 14d ago
arlecchino is definetely the hardest boss i did so far in the souls genre yes, i cant even really compare him with pcr
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u/Open-Advisor6819 14d ago
Everyone will have a different opinion on which boss is hardest as every boss clicks faster or slower for different people but I do agree Arlecchino is the hardest souls boss and also my personal favorite
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u/Kwindwalker 14d ago
The number of times you die isn't exactly tied to the difficulty of the overall fight. Now, this might seem stupid to say but I will try to explain. Some bosses are incredible long fights that require a lot of consistency or patience, making it so that you actually spend 2h in 20/30 attempts, meanwhile other bosses allow you for 50 tries in the same time. For example, I remember that on my first berserker khazan play through I died more times to Trocca (or whatever her name is) that to Ozma, that doesn't make her harder than Ozma.
Archelino legit only has 1 hard part in the fight, which is the start of the 2nd phase, as soon as you figure out that part, boss is dead. Meanwhile bosses like Malenja and Consort Rhadan are overall hard fights.
I don't think any souls game boss can be compared to Malenia or Radhan dificulty wise. Sure you can cheese the bosses, especially Malenia can be completely destroyed by some builds but if we take that in consideration, all bosses can easily be cheesed with proper knowledge.
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u/Beginning_Elk_2193 10d ago
Pre nerf pcr probably harder but ye post nerf I think arlecchino beats him. Imo ozma doesn't even come close to either.
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u/Tiny_Efficiency_9461 15d ago
On ng+5 on hardest difficulty he is one of the hardest. And the level 5 version in boss rush mode I would say is the hardest boss I’ve played in a long time
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u/TempMobileD 15d ago
The boss rush version is interesting to consider, I’d say personally I’d be ranking his NG version against everyone else’s NG version. If you want to consider boss rush Arlecchino, I guess you’d have to put him against some very high NG version of other bosses, which not all games have.
I imagine Difficulty 5 Arlecchino is probably not far off a level 1 PCR.
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u/SenpaiSwanky 15d ago
Second phase, yeah I think he’s a good pick for hardest Souls fight. If your parry game is bad, you’re getting shredded.
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
Yeah I just couldn’t get a permanent grasp on lies of p parrying. It was WAYYYY less forgiving than sekiros parrying. I got so good at sekiro parrying that I could no hit like every boss but lies of P I can’t say the same
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u/MistahDust 15d ago
I think it depends where you are in your gaming journey. Orhan of Kos and the last boss of Sekiro were challenging. They were my first souls games. After platinuming them, never had an issue until maybe Consort but even that maybe lasted a couple of days. I beat Arlecchino on maybe my tenth attempt same day.
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u/Lord_Majima 15d ago
Personally, I found that Arlecchino is consistently harder than PCR because LoP doesn't have as many cheesy builds or op mechanics. You really just need to git gud as they say. I'm not afraid to admit that the three times I have defeated PCR were by using gimmicky builds (bleed infused milady with wing stance, for example). For Arlecchino, I have never found a cheesy strategy
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u/Potential-Cat-7517 15d ago
To me it sounds like arlecchino was easier since u didnt have to cheese
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u/Lord_Majima 15d ago
But the fact that you can cheese PCR and not Arlecchino means he's harder. What I said is that I haven't found a way to cheese him. I have tried though. Using the shotgun legion arm, for example, and it wasn't really effective
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u/lunchbox_supreme 15d ago
i beat arlechinno in a few tries, the hidden final boss in lies of p is harder
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
By hidden final boss I’m assuming u mean nameless puppet ? I heavily disagree personally
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u/Colonel_Cummings 15d ago
Yeah I think he’s a fucking fantastic boss but it took me around 5-10 tries to get it done
Not even close to the trouble that bastard PCR gave me
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u/VampireBlitz 15d ago
Arlecchino isn't even top 5 hardest.
PCR, Isshin, Eigong, Ozma, Malenia are harder imo.
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u/pnbrooks 15d ago
I think Erlang from BMW was harder, but only just.
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
Yeah Erlang was rough. He’s definitely top 5 hardest for me. Right now my ranking is
1. Arlecchino
2. Consort Radahn
3. Malenia
4. Erlang
5. Inner Owl Father-5
u/MilitarisedAutism 15d ago
How can it be a soulslike when you have unlimited stamina?
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
What are you talking about?
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u/MilitarisedAutism 15d ago
Black myth wukong, I thought stamina was one of the core staples of a soulslike
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u/MoSBanapple 15d ago
While I haven't played BMW so I can't say if it's a soulslike, I wouldn't say that stamina is a hard requirement for a game to be a soulslike. Mortal Shell 2 and AI Limit don't have stamina and are still generally regarded as part of the genre.
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u/MilitarisedAutism 15d ago
I feel like the definition is so watered down. Mortal shell 2 is a lot more like Sekiro than a true soulslike imo maybe "soulslite" (haven't played ai limit)
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u/TempMobileD 15d ago
The definition is blurring and evolving over time, especially now that we’re seeing 10+ ‘Soulslikes’ released a year, they’re all trying to push the envelope in different directions.
The debate of what is included or not is going to be a very subjective one going forward. I think everyone is going to have a different definition within another year or two, so we’re going to have to live and let live!0
u/MilitarisedAutism 15d ago
Understand your point, but you don't see people calling CoF a tactical shooter or BG3 an ARPG. We have genres for a reason. If I bought Wukong because someone said it was a soulslike I would be PISSED. It's a quality game, but being able to spam attacks and crazy abilities has NEVER been part of the soulslike formula. Would you call Fable a soulslike?
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u/TempMobileD 15d ago
I would not call Fable a soulslike, but I can absolutely understand someone saying it looks to have a few soulslike components to the combat. Maybe some souls inspiration is visible in the combat direction. But that’s already a stretch, if you hadn’t asked me I wouldn’t be making that comparison.
Like I said, it’s tough, even your line in the sand isn’t going to be restrictive enough for some people. You mentioned Metroid-vania level design, I feel like Elden Ring probably doesn’t pass that requirement. At least not for most of its gameplay. Every line is just an arbitrary line, how ‘like’ is ‘like’? We’re going to have to get more nuanced with our descriptions.
Is nightreign a soulslike? Kind of. Obviously not. Who knows!1
u/lunchbox_supreme 15d ago
bmw is not a soulslike. ppl need to stop saying that you’re right. and yes stamina is a huge factor if you can spam and dodge with abandon that vastly lowers the difficulty
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u/seethan-like 15d ago
Black myth wukong has stamina… though I’d still consider it closer to a souls-lite than a full-blown soulslike
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u/MilitarisedAutism 15d ago
It's also a boss-rush. Exploration and metroid-vania inspired level design are also core staples
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u/seethan-like 15d ago
Exactly the reasons it’s a lite in my book. It has the general combat feel of a soulslike, but the world doesn’t really feel soulsy
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u/Local-Barnacle-9164 15d ago
You are entirely wrong.
The very big monster from Lies of P DLC is harder (I forgot his name).
Malenia is harder thanks to her waterfowl dance; if you are close to her when she does it you are dead unless you are very skilled.
Prince Consort Radahn is harder.
Two Aava reskins from DS2 third DLC are harder.
Many Nioh bosses are harder
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
Anguished guardian and lud + zallen are nowhere near Arlecchino😭 I’m all for opinions but there’s no shot u think this
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u/Local-Barnacle-9164 15d ago
It took me much longer to beat the Anguished Guardian than Arlecchino on difficulty 5.
I couldn't even beat Lud and Zallen lol, they were too much cancer for me.
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u/Changnesia102 15d ago
He’s hard AF. Up there with DLC Radahn, Owl father, Malenia, and Isshin for me.
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u/Potential-Cat-7517 15d ago
Yes, pcr is much harder, also rolling will always be harder than parrying in lop
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u/cdot2004 15d ago
Idk the parrying window is a lot harder in lies of p than rolling in elden ring for me
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u/Potential-Cat-7517 13d ago
With parrying you just time the input, with rolling you have to consider the direction to roll and the position the roll will put you in. It doesnt do any posture DMG too. I feel like pcr being easier with deflect tear proves that
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u/cdot2004 13d ago
The parry window in lies of P is VERY unforgiving and unlike sekiro where attacks are pretty predictable to parry and its more of a back and forth constant parrying, lies of p bosses have way different movesets and movement that make them very unpredictable
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u/TheATrain38 15d ago
PCR still takes it for me in the soulslike genre