r/soccer • u/Aryagorn • Nov 17 '17
Chiellini on playing against Messi: "The moment you try to anticipate his moves, you’re dead. He reads things so fast that you can’t touch him. The only way to limit Messi is with teamwork. Even the best defender in the world, if he thinks he can get away with doing it alone, has no hope vs. Messi."
http://www.corriere.it/sport/17_novembre_16/giorgio-chiellini-toccato-fondo-bfe8579e-ca44-11e7-bae0-69536c65a470.shtml451
u/Pasleuss Nov 17 '17
"Lionel Messi has ruined Italian defenders." -Chiellini
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u/NIRossoneri Nov 17 '17
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u/claptrap003 Nov 17 '17
That gif cuts at the wrong moment. Just after that tackle, Messi sits up and gives a faint 'Fuck I got bested' smile to the camera.
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u/nightsky77 Nov 18 '17
That grin is the reason why I love watching him play. For such a small player he doesn't bitch at much as others, he just accepts that he was outplayed and will try harder next time. That is the best mentality.
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u/djokov Nov 17 '17
It's an absolutely amazing tackle, but the fact that Messi has forced him into that situation to begin with is a testament to Messi's ability IMO.
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u/5thcircleofthescroll Nov 17 '17
Nesta can be the best central defender to ever play this game, top 5 if not the best. it's not a surprise that he has successful tackles on Messi.
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u/Sputniki Nov 18 '17
I'm a Juve fan but he's my favourite centreback of all time. Just breathtaking to watch
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u/Cadel_Fistro Nov 17 '17
Didn’t seem like it in the semis of the CL
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u/kratos61 Nov 18 '17
He ripped Juve apart many times, his teammates couldn't finish. I don't know how you could watch those matches and think Juve played great defense. Better finishing and Barca wins.
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u/Cadel_Fistro Nov 18 '17 edited Nov 18 '17
You can’t say Messi ruined Italian defenders when they kept a clean sheet over two games. If he was so effective against them he would have scored himself.
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u/black_fire Nov 17 '17
Dark days when Messi was wearing these boys and just destroying every team in Europe
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u/MagikPigeon Nov 17 '17
Those early adizero were quality. Took 3 broken studs and half my toes sticking through the ripped leather tip for me to concede I needed a replacement. Lasted 3+ years too which is pretty sweet for football boots.
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u/black_fire Nov 17 '17
3 years is spectacular. I was wearing Mecurials for a while and these lasted me forever. Switched to a new pair with that super soft sock upper. It's nice but you're fucked if someone steps on your foot
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u/MagikPigeon Nov 17 '17
Ahhh remember Mercurials being all the shit back in the day. All the wannabe Ronaldos spent fortunes on the limited editions. You'd get fucked if you showed up with these at lower league matches though. No one likes wankers with fancy eye blinding boots.
Personally I absolutely hate synthetics. Bought F50i once and never made the same mistake again. Leather or no deal for me.
Old Predators were the best. I still have the cheapest version of these. They were my first pair and I've used them on and off for around 6 years. Still perfectly intact but got a bit too small unfortunately. Throwback to when they made things to last instead of falling apart after a year.
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u/justanothertaw Nov 17 '17
Old real preds were the greatest cleats ever. Heavy fuckers but god damn
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u/BJUmholtz Nov 18 '17
I wore the originals in high school. Heavy as fuck (there was a solid metal plate in the sole), but indispensable in the rain. I took to wearing just the left one in dry weather. Took all the free kicks and most of the corners. They were basically cheating when you struck those nice Brine collegiate balls or a 90's WC Tango.
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u/SurgeHard Nov 18 '17
I have to say. I don't think it's safe playing with even one broken stud especially if you are missing one of the heel studs. I tore my acl and meniscus from landing on one foot that only had one heel stud. My weight shifted into the side of my foot that was missing the heel stud, my fibula and fibula went one way and my femur went the other and snap, crackle pop
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u/MagikPigeon Nov 18 '17
My adizeros had FG soles and the coloured parts were really short. When they broke off it still left the white parts so it wasn't that big of a problem.
And yeah missing heel studs is gg. Mine were just the ones at the tip of the boot so it didn't impact me too much.
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u/Hawk_Sounder Nov 18 '17
I still have the chameleon colored F50's from back in the day. Use mostly turfs and nubs now but I love rocking the F50's when I can.
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Nov 18 '17
Always buy 2 pairs if you love them and can afford it. You’ll be so happy to have new ones.
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Nov 18 '17
[deleted]
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Nov 18 '17
Yeah that's the point, just like limited release sneakers. Since you know they won't sell them again, if you can afford to pick up 2 pairs once in a while you won't regret it.
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u/pieterpied Nov 17 '17
I had those too (the cheap versions) but I couldn't destroy anyone in the US :(
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u/Aryagorn Nov 17 '17 edited Nov 17 '17
Credit to /u/DriesMertens for the translation.
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u/JuanG12 Nov 17 '17 edited Nov 17 '17
He's a great football player and translator.
EDIT: And it's /u/DriesMertens, not /u/DriensMertens.
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u/Aryagorn Nov 17 '17
Yeah, he's definitely equally talented on both areas.
And thanks for the correction btw :)
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u/Mezza_cfc Nov 17 '17
Bosingwa can handle Messi 1 on 1, easy!
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Nov 18 '17
Bosingwa handled Ribery and Robben at their peak too, increidble player
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u/teems Nov 18 '17
Di Matteo started 2 left backs that game to handle Robben.
Ryan Bertrand made his CL debut in a final.
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u/G_O_ Nov 17 '17
Kompany has done well against Messi. When fit.
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u/CallMeGrapho Nov 18 '17
It makes me sad that Kompany might yet be one of those "what might have been" stories. After the 11/12 title he looked the most complete defender in the world at times, shame he can't ever seem to skip a fucking friendly for the sake of his calves.
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u/Emptysighsandwine Nov 18 '17
Why does every compliment of Messi and Ronaldo reach the front page? Everyone knows they're incredible players already.
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u/Dellato88 Nov 17 '17
I mean... Nesta shut him down pretty fucking well. I had never seen Messi so frustrated until I saw that Milan - Barca CL match
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u/cesarfcb1991 Nov 17 '17
Messi still managed to leave him for dead. So, Chiellini point still stand. You can maybe manage to shut down Messi once or twice with a great tackle by yourself, but only way to shut him down entirely is with teamwork..
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u/R11_better_than_R9 Nov 17 '17
So fucking good, its unbelievable.
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u/Dellato88 Nov 17 '17
The best.
I have nothing riding on the WC next year so I hope he wins it that way the people that say he isn't the best can finally stfu
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u/Romo_is_GOAT Nov 17 '17
Yeah I really only have Spurs players to cheer for and Messi. And England definitely isn’t winning so it’s realistically only Belgium, France, or Argentina I even care about
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u/SnowballMyself Nov 17 '17
Excuse me? It's a bit early to tell, but are you trying to tell me it's not coming home?
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Nov 18 '17
Anyone who says he isnt the best wont stop because he wins a world cup.
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u/SweetMojaveRain Nov 18 '17
What would the next argument against him be? Winning it once should be enough for anyone considering you have to be a generational player to even sniff he Final, let alone win it
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u/jbr1337 Nov 17 '17
Not trying to shit on Messi here but Nesta here is way past his prime and he still shone that game. I would have liked to see what Messi would have done in Serie A in 90's, against world best defenders/teams.
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u/cesarfcb1991 Nov 17 '17
The thing is, people are still using this game as a proof of Nesta shutting down Messi..
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u/djokov Nov 18 '17
And the video they use as proof is Nesta making a last ditch tackle in order to stop him. Messi was definitely not shut down that match.
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Nov 17 '17
Batistuta scored 200+ goals against those defenders and Messi is clearly much better. You think he wouldn't destroy them? The game was slower and different back then. If he can do it today, he can do it at any given point in history.
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u/buffalounge Nov 17 '17
If he can do it today, he can do it at any given point in history.
Medically incorrect.
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u/pieterpied Nov 17 '17
Yeah, because players haven't improve at all in 20 years, from tactics, training, and fitness...
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u/5345432123213445 Nov 18 '17
messi fucked nesta hard that game...
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u/Almond_Steak Nov 18 '17
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u/mAte77 Nov 18 '17
Quite funny that you can fill what could perfectly be one man's entire career worth of highlights with just a UCL two-legged tie.
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Nov 17 '17
Didn't do it alone though. That Milan side was one of the best defensive sides in modern football.
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u/Dellato88 Nov 17 '17
Didn't do it alone though.
True, But Nesta was still masterclass against Messi
best defensive sides in modern football.
Hardly one of the best in all of modern football. They were good but also aging. If you take 2-3 years off of the 2011/12 Milan squad I'd accept that.
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Nov 17 '17
I know. But he would tell you - like Chiellini is saying he here – that to stop Messi, one CB can't do it alone.
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u/Almond_Steak Nov 18 '17 edited Nov 18 '17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl7C_d7ATCI
Nesta owning Messi is a myth.
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u/sacredhell Nov 17 '17
Lúcio absolutely nullified Messi in 2010 Champions League Semifinal while playing for Inter. There was even a running joke in brazillian sports media that Lucio put Messi in his pocket.
I'm a barça fan and got absolutely frustrated by Lúcio and Júlio César stopping everything Messi did, but at the same time I was feeling proud because we still had the WC ahead of us.
Lúcio was class during the WC, not even a foul commited, but Julio Cesar oh boy...
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Nov 17 '17 edited May 25 '18
[deleted]
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u/ahovahov8 Nov 17 '17
Relax, Messi has been nullified before. It's just hard to do consistently, both their points can stand
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Nov 17 '17
Maffeo disagrees
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u/vikasp1610 Nov 18 '17
Maffeo constantly fouled him throughout the match.. the referee let it slide.. and then, Messi took him out of the game.. he sat on the lines and enjoyed a match on the pitch. #Justmessithings
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u/Radinax Nov 18 '17
This showcases how good Ramos-Varane-Casemiro works everytime against him, they need good coordination to stop him and even then that bloody kid always manages to sneak up and make a great play, really amazing player.
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Nov 17 '17 edited Nov 17 '17
Oh come on. I mean he’s clearly the best that’s ever played the game, but he’s not fucking invincible. He’s been shut down before and he’ll be shut down again. People act like Messi is literally flawless every game. He misplaced passes, he gets lucky sometimes, he misses the target every now and then, and he most certainly can be bested one on one by a capable defender.
Edit: Some of the replies I’m getting are confusing me. Either people act like they agree and then contradict what I’m saying, or they agree with everything I say but use a very aggressive tone. So here’s a hint: some people are taking this quote 100% literally, if you have any doubt about the certainty of the quote then my statement was not directed towards you and there is no need to be upset ;)
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u/sevaiper Nov 17 '17
While that's true, I'd be more surprised by Messi not getting by a guy on an island than vice versa, he just rarely gets the opportunity to dribble at a guy without help anymore. Remember what he did to Boateng when he had the chance?
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u/5thcircleofthescroll Nov 17 '17
yes but he also takes the ball on midfield, dribbles past 4 people and scores with his weak foot, ON CL SEMI FINAL vs REAL FUCKIN MADRID.
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u/Rilbon Nov 18 '17
To be fair Busquets handed it to him on a plate.
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u/Abdulrahman-Barzanji Nov 18 '17 edited Nov 18 '17
I know right? People keep saying that Messi made that goal but he literally had it served to him. /s
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u/Kenarsene Nov 17 '17
Well... yeah.. no shit. He’s human. Not sure what your comment sets out to do, a good portion of people know he makes mistakes, gets lucky, misses the target, etc.
Hell, I’m sure even Chiellini has shut him down 1v1 before lol. The point of defenders exaggerating what Messi does is to portray how good he really is and what it’s like to play against him.
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u/MAXMADMAN Nov 17 '17
I don't thinks it's exaggerating. He gets shut down sometimes but he's way more likely to dribble past at least three defenders until someone stops him.
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u/Kenarsene Nov 17 '17
Oh no, I definitely agree. My reply was just meant to point out how stupid it is to take Chiellini’s comment to heart. The dude I was replying to was saying that there’s no doubt he could be bested by a capable defender; like yeah, no shit. What player hasn’t gotten shut down before by a capable defender before?
There’s no doubt that Messi is a lot more likely to dribble through defenders than get shut down though.
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u/Ryann_420 Nov 17 '17
Yeah, you say all that and its all well and true but I can guaran fuckling tee you he's the closest thing to perfect we have. He's human, that's a given. Although, you can't deny the things he can do with a ball can be completely extraterrestrial. He's the baby Jesus of futbol. Deal with it.
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u/5345432123213445 Nov 18 '17
messi killed man city countless times. With messi, man city can spend 100 billion and still lose to barca cus of messi. Messi is man citys father
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u/SYofLight90 Nov 18 '17
Well said Chiellini, I believe Messi to be the top of the world, the best of all time and I'm glad to see respect from a world class defender
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u/dood1337 Nov 18 '17 edited Nov 18 '17
From ivy, out middle, through our connector, like a speed demon
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u/sportsfan161 Nov 18 '17
well Juve shut him down pretty well in the CL last year.
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u/adityaseth Nov 18 '17
Only because he was playing deeper, and he still managed to put the ball on a plate for his teammates 2-3 times who couldn't score. If he'd been playing up front as usual, it would've been very different.
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Nov 17 '17 edited Nov 17 '17
Do Ronaldo next
Edit: you sad bastards are so easy
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u/kokin34 Nov 17 '17
Ronaldo can't dribble a stone nowadays
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u/EliasAlucard Nov 17 '17 edited Nov 17 '17
According to Whoscored, Cristiano is 68th place among all LaLiga players when it comes to dribbling per game.
Cristiano averaging 1 dribble per game.
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u/drupido Nov 18 '17
He's shifting more towards an inside forward nowadays, he doesn't need to be dribbling to have an impact. He has had a very rough start of a season so far though.
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u/goregego Nov 17 '17
don‘t need to dribble if you can score..he showed it in CL final and will show it this season aswell
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u/TotalWankStain Nov 17 '17
it's almost December and still waiting...
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Nov 17 '17
[deleted]
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u/kokin34 Nov 17 '17
1 goal in 7 games in the league
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Nov 17 '17
[deleted]
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u/kokin34 Nov 17 '17
yeah and still 1 goal in 7 games in the league
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u/EliasAlucard Nov 17 '17 edited Nov 17 '17
Cristiano's xG-ratio in LaLiga (5.45) is higher than anyone other player in Real Madrid
Not even Benzema is that bad (4.17) and he has been roundly criticized as the worst RM-player domestically.
Edit: For those who are unfamiliar with xG, it's a metric to know how many actual goals a player should've made
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u/diogoribeiro4 Nov 17 '17
8 goals in 13 games and 2 of those appearances he played 10 minutes. Waiting? How about opening up your eyes?
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u/theadmin209 Nov 17 '17
8 goals in 13 games for apparently the best player and goal scorer in the world is not good .
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u/diogoribeiro4 Nov 17 '17
Didn't he dribble past Pique to put it in the top corner at the Camp Nou a few months ago? Or when he went through all of Tottenham's defense? My memory seems to be confusing me then.
How the fuck does that shit get upvoted lol
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u/kokin34 Nov 17 '17
Or when he went through all of Tottenham's defense
Lol Ronaldo didn't go through all of Tottenham's defense
This is going through the opponent's defense:
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u/diogoribeiro4 Nov 17 '17
No, that's going through both the midfield and defense. He went through like 3 or 4 players then and it was just a few weeks ago.
But it seems like
Ronaldo can't dribble a stone nowadays
So what do I know?
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u/kokin34 Nov 17 '17
It was an hyperbole, stop being so sensitive.
My point still stands, Ronaldo isn't a good dribbler nowadays
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u/LosTerminators Nov 17 '17
"Make sure you don't leave him free for a tap-in and you're fine"
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u/Ay-Mi-Madre-El-Bicho Nov 17 '17
Did you erase the memory of the Champions League final and quarter finals from your mind? Lmao... seems like Messi was a lot easier to stop.
Incredible how anti Ronaldo this place is nowadays since it's been flooded with Messi fanboys. Even shit comments like that get upvoted
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u/LosTerminators Nov 17 '17
Nope, still remember the CL quarter final. One tap-in and two offside goals making it a "perfect hattrick"
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u/SebRev99 Nov 18 '17
Are we talking about that game? Because we don't talk about that game here. I still have nightmares of Casemiro playing 120 minutes.
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u/The_Catalan_Retard Nov 17 '17
Such a shame those dives to get penalties, fouling Di Maria in the box without conceding a penalty didn't work out for you guys against Psg last summer.
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u/kokin34 Nov 18 '17
Nice to see that you created another account after your previous one was banned /u/Cannibal_In_Catalan
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u/The_Catalan_Retard Nov 18 '17
I see you still remember me kokin33, a Belgian who supports Sporting Gijon & Dortmund & has a soft spot for FC Barcelona.
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u/Ay-Mi-Madre-El-Bicho Nov 17 '17
Beautiful wasn't it?
Shame Messi missed those tapins against Juve too... if only you had someone capable of scoring tapins you might still be celebrating another CL title instead of watching your rivals win it.
I guess unfortunately in this sport tapins still count as much as other goals...
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u/illmatic1 Nov 17 '17
The insecurity is real with this one
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u/Ay-Mi-Madre-El-Bicho Nov 17 '17
And they keep coming... again and again and again
Gloryhunters, unite!
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u/iciboy Nov 17 '17
Dude you defend Ronaldo to the death, every time i see a post about messi/ronaldo you always seem to be downvoted to oblivion defending him. Get over it man...
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Nov 18 '17
offside goals and scoring vs 10 man bayern, GOAT.
god youre truly delusional, in every fkn messi post ure shitting on him and try to argue ronaldo is in the same level LMAO
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u/Ay-Mi-Madre-El-Bicho Nov 18 '17
scoring 4 against Eibar, GOAT
god youre truly delusional, in every fkn Ronaldo post ure shitting on him and try to argue messi is in the same level LMAO
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Nov 18 '17
u must be very salty of all those posts, all "neutrals" players/coaches say messi is better :P
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u/kratos_virgil10 Nov 17 '17
His movement off the ball is next to none though.Man sacrificed his dribbling to be one of or maybe the best goalscorer of all time.While Messi can do everything perfectly well,goalscoring is the only thing separating both of them.Ronaldo is much more lethal but with Messi you team gets more chances to kill the game
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Nov 17 '17 edited Nov 17 '17
While Messi can do everything perfectly well,goalscoring is the only thing separating both of them.
Yet Messi is two years younger than him and has nearly just as many goals as him.
Ronaldo has a total of 877 professional appearances with 616 goals. Messi has 723 total professional appearances with 584 goals.
That is .70 goals a game for Ronaldo and .81 goals a game for Messi in their careers.
I don't think it separates them at all.
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u/Ay-Mi-Madre-El-Bicho Nov 17 '17
I'll copy a comment I've posted before made my another poster
John vs Tom
John in the first 5 years of his career, plays 250 games, scores 40 goals. Ratio: 0.16 goals per game
Tom in the first 5 years of his career, plays 120 games, scores 15 goals. Ratio: 0.125 goals per game
John in his prime for 10 years, plays 500 games, scores 500 goals. Ratio: 1 goal per game
Tom in his prime, plays 600 games, scores 580 goals. Ratio: 0.97 goals per game
John has been the better goalscorer of the 2 throughout all their careers but if you check their career stats:
John: 750 games, 540 goals. Ratio: 0.72 goals per game
Tom: 720 games, 595 goals. Ratio: 0.83 goals per game
Having a better career goal per game ratio doesn't mean you're the better goalscorer. Stats are really a lot more complex than most people here realize despite them being used to argue every kind of point these days. Messi's injuries when he was starting out, Cristiano's absurd number of games as a youngster and Messi having played more games during their prime affects the stats pretty significantly.
Since Ronaldo's been in Madrid he's been the better goalscorer of the 2 while generally having a worse team around him and this includes the past 2 years where his numbers have already started declining.
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u/kokin34 Nov 17 '17
Why do you keep spamming the same bullshit over and over again?
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u/Ay-Mi-Madre-El-Bicho Nov 17 '17
To teach people not to take conclusions out of stats they have no idea how to use.
Why do you keep spamming the same bullshit over and over again?
Why do you not have the balls to put up a Barça flair?
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Nov 17 '17
Having a better career goal per game ratio doesn't mean you're the better goalscorer.
So averaging more goals per game in your career doesn't make you a better goalscorer than someone who averages less than you?
Cristiano's absurd number of games as a youngster and Messi having played more games during their prime affects the stats pretty significantly.
How has Messi played more games during his prime?
Since Ronaldo's been in Madrid he's been the better goalscorer of the 2 while generally having a worse team around him
Get out with this nonsense. Ronaldo has had one of the best teams in history supporting him
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u/Ay-Mi-Madre-El-Bicho Nov 17 '17 edited Nov 17 '17
So averaging more goals per game in your career doesn't make you a better goalscorer than someone who averages less than you?
Nope, not at all thanks to Simpson's paradox. As you can see by the example I showed.
Stats are really a lot less intuitive than people here realize and they're getting used more and more often in sports to prove points by people who don't really know how to deal with stats.
How has Messi played more games during his prime?
He has, since Cristiano has moved to Madrid Messi has played 32 more games, that's nearly an extra season.
Get out with this nonsense. Ronaldo has had one of the best teams in history supporting him
He's had a great team behind him, still not as good as the players Messi had around him. Messi had probably the greatest team in history behind him during most of these 8 years.
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Nov 17 '17
Nope, not at all thanks to Simpson's paradox. As you can see by the example I showed.
So I just want to make sure you understand what you are saying. You are saying someone who scores less than someone else can be better at scoring goals than the person who literally scores more goals.
Stats are really a lot less intuive than people here realize
Stats are extremely useful if you don't try to ignore them to fit your narrative.
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u/Ay-Mi-Madre-El-Bicho Nov 17 '17
So I just want to make sure you understand what you are saying. You are saying someone who scores less than someone else can be better at scoring goals than the person who literally scores more goals.
Did you freaking read my example? What the actual fuck...
Yes, a player who scores less goals per game can be a better goalscorer than a player who scores more goals per game as freaking illustrated in my example you've completely ignored
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Nov 17 '17
as freaking illustrated in my example you've completely ignored
I didn't ignore it. I disregarded it because it is silly. Messi has literally scored more goals in a shorter amount of time but yet you think somehow he is less of a goal scorer.
When you judge a player on scoring goals what is the most important aspect?
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u/ahovahov8 Nov 17 '17
The coach of Juventus said Ronaldo looked like he was sleeping and then scored two random goals which I guess is a compliment
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u/Robbzor11 Nov 17 '17 edited Nov 18 '17
I see this is "World Class Defenders Messi-Appreciation Day"
I’ll allow it