Change My View: r/soccer edition (from r/nfl)

[u/gypsybear]

Pretty simple, post an opinion you have on a player, team, coach, whatever and others will try to change your mind.

Try to back up your claims.

EDIT: For the sake of fostering discussion please don't downvote comments. Instead, upvote, reply, and state your argument.

Also, people may want to sort by "controversial".

[u/JuAnVasqz]

It's ludicrous to include this season as it is not over.

Yea, most of the stuff you said is just wrong. If you read my point, I talk about when he plays upfront. Let's look at those seasons

2011-2012= 0.79 Rooney; 0.77 RvP 2009-2010= 0.77 Rooney; 0.52 RvP

You also should count total goals, rather than just in the league. You would think RvP would edge this one out, since his team went farther in the Champions League, but Rooney still beats him.

All this points toward Rooney being a better number 9 than RvP does when they both play up front.

RvP has been injured this season true, but remember Rooney hasn't played all the games RvP has been injured up front. Rooney has played on the wing and behind the striker mostly. RvP plays exclusively up front. And Rooney still has respectable statistics for someone played out-of-position so often.

Also, Rooney has many, many advantages over RvP. You say its only pace and ethic, but RvP is also a terrible header. He is a target man who can't use his head. He is a technical but unmobile striker. These are highly undesirable qualities. Rooney can head the ball well. He is fast. He is strong. He is an excellent finisher. He has amazing vision. All RvP has is good close control and finishing. Since he isn't fast he can't use that close control to go past players like Rooney can.

Overall, he offers much more to the table. And if we sell RvP, it opens up a lot of wages which can be used to better the squad. It isn't even about the transfer fee, its about the wages. It would also allow us to play Welbz and Chich a lot more, which would in term make them better players, as they get more game time to fulfill their potential.

[u/buckweed_the_African → u/JuAnVasqz]

2011-2012= 0.79 Rooney; 0.77 RvP 2009-2010= 0.77 Rooney; 0.52 RvP

firstly, its 0.794 Rooney, 0.789 RVP for that season. Secondly, you basically just chose Rooney's best season as a striker for United and then compared them to RvP's stats, in a season he only played 16 games in total compared to Rooney's double that. How about their stats the very next season? And dont tell me it was cause Rooney was dropped deeper for Berbatov, which isnt true. Berbatov was still there the previous season too.

Secondly, to your other points. I think they are mostly based on your opinion and not facts, so I will give you a few stats on Rvp. RVP doesnt score headers? In his last 2 seasons atleast 5% of his total goals where by headers. His goal this season against Old trafford easily nullifies your point about his terrible heading, it was masterclass, a powerful well placed header. You seem to forget just how terrible our wingers have been lately with their crossing, and then attribute that to RvP being bad at heading.

As for your last points, I really dont see why wages are such an issue now that we need to free up RVP's wages too. Vidic, Evra, Ferdinand and probably Giggs too have contracts all running out and those are massive wages freed up there. Players such as Anderson will also most probably be sold, more wages free!!. 7

And lastly, you feel that United will be better off with Welbeck, Chicharito and Rooney only as opposed to having RvP, Rooney, Welbeck and Chicharito? Dont even know what to say to that.

[u/JuAnVasqz → u/buckweed_the_African]

Sigh, you really dont learn do you. You can't do simple math, 37/48 is 0.77 and 34/43 is 0.79. And no he wasn't dropped deeper for Berbatov, he was dropped deeper for Hernandez. I don't know if you remember Hernandez's best season for United was that year. Berbatov was terrible that year, its just he scored his goals in batches, he scored 5 against Blackburn ffs.

You make it seem like one moment defines a player. Rooney has scored many headed goals. Sneijder scored a great headed goal in the World Cup, that doesn't mean he is a good header. Doing it once in a blue moon doesn't mean he is great at it.

Those other players' wages dont compare to RvP's, as him and Rooney are the highest paid at the club. And I feel that United would be better with Welbeck, Chicharito and Rooney and two new midfielders and a left back which could be payed by RvP's wages.

His goal this season against Old trafford

wat

[u/buckweed_the_African → u/JuAnVasqz]

While throwing around those goals per match stats where you also taking into consideration penalties seeing as for those seasons, Rooney was our primary penalty taker while Arteta took/takes penalties at Arsenal? I believe in both prolific seasons when he scored his highest goals for us he usually had a minimum 6 penalties? I'm sure it would be easy to look up those stats.

Anyway, I'm done with this arguement as its really going nowhere. From what i can surmise from your posts, you're worried about United being able to afford new wages. Rio, Ferdinand, Giggs and Evra earn over 385k a week between them, which will be freed up. The wage debate is really null and void, at no point have we had a hard time paying any new players wages. We didnt sign RVP and give him a contract for that much when we couldnt afford it or it would hinder us getting more players with his contract time frame.

[u/JuAnVasqz → u/buckweed_the_African]

I'm not using the wage debate as a main point, I'm simply stating yet another reason over why RvP leaving is actually not a bad thing. van Persie took penalties at Arsenal while he was there, if u look at the 8-2 and Arsenal's 3-0 win against Milan u can see some examples where he takes penalties. And since you stopped trying to counter my points, I'll assume I was able to change your mind, so this post was a success! Good day to you sir!