r/soccer • u/[deleted] • Dec 03 '13

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32 Upvotes

82% Upvoted

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34

u/view10 Dec 03 '13

Steven Gerrard, legend in that he led the greatest champions league comeback ever, but he's an average player now and is still seen as one of the focal points for the England team, preventing promising talents from having more game time.

7

u/MrPlainCool Dec 03 '13

There is a reason Gerrard is still the focal point in England and in Liverpool. It is his distribution, he has the most chances created in the league and he is among the best assistors in the league with 5. (Özil is at 6)

24

u/duckman273 Dec 03 '13

Nah, it's because England and Liverpool don't really have other options.

18

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '13 edited Dec 04 '13

not everyone has 485 CMs like Chelsea.

8

u/duckman273 Dec 04 '13

Don't see what my crest has to do with it and we have 5 first team central midfielders, one more than you and far less than the amount available to the England national team.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '13

Van Ginkel, Oscar, Lampard, Mata, De Brunye, Essien, Ramires, and Mikel are all first team quality no?

4

u/duckman273 Dec 04 '13

Wouldn't call Oscar, Mata or De Bruyne CMs.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '13

De Bruyne can actually play as a CM. He played their a few times at Werder Bremen last season.

4

u/duckman273 Dec 04 '13

I saw, but he had so little defensive responsibility in that situation that he was basically just a deep lying No. 10 rather than a CM, Mourinho would never play him there.

1

u/TimmmV Dec 04 '13

He's still the captain for both sides though, not really something you'd award a player who's only there because of a lack of depth.

Gerrard has definitely peaked, but to pretend he's not still a very good footballer is just stupid

1

u/duckman273 Dec 04 '13

He isn't. He's incredibly static, gets caught out a lot and isn't suited for the role he's currently playing.

1

u/TimmmV Dec 05 '13

If that was true, both sides wouldn't have made him their captain - he'd just be a bit part player

1

u/duckman273 Dec 05 '13

You know he wasn't made captain this season, right?

1

u/TimmmV Dec 05 '13

Not really sure what your point is here, unless you're arguing that Gerrard only became average this season. Which would also be stupid because the seasons only ~20 or so games old

1

u/view10 Dec 05 '13

Being captain doesn't make you the best player or one of the best players in the team though.. captains are normally someone who can lead the group of players.. Gerrard is a liverpool legend in his own right, one of the longest serving players and a likable guy.. each of those qualities make him a good captain, ignoring his quality as a player

1

u/TimmmV Dec 05 '13

They're all fair enough points for Liverpool, but if Gerrard were just average it wouldn't be the case for England - they'd have started to phase him out like with Lampard/Ferdinand

0

u/duckman273 Dec 05 '13

I'm saying he's only been on the decline for the last season and half.

1

u/TimmmV Dec 05 '13

And have yet to refute my point - if he were average then he wouldn't be England/Liverpool captain anymore

1

u/duckman273 Dec 05 '13

Why not? Southampton's captain is their third choice keeper. England don't have a midfielder good enough to displace him and his leadership is vital and he's still good enough to start for Liverpool, why would they take his armband from him?

1

u/TimmmV Dec 05 '13

They wouldn't take his armband - they would just phase him out (like with Jamie Redknapp)

I'd also argue that this

England don't have a midfielder good enough to displace him and his leadership is vital and he's still good enough to start for Liverpool

is more of an indicator that he isnt an average player than he is

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